Giants declined the most of any team in the NFL this offseas

In comment 14443425 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14443385 Amtoft said: Quote: Safeties better CBs better DL better OLB better OL better I'll give you the OL. As for the rest, you must be looking into a very reliable crystal ball because I have no idea how you can be so firm in those conclusions. I could argue the complete other way with all of the unproven parts.

DL is almost the same expect we added Dexter Lawrence and Pierre Olsen. How is that not better?

Safeties You replace Landon Collins and Curtis Riley with Peppers and Bethea.. you don't think that is better? Riley was a crap show and Collins who I loved isn't so much better than Peppers or Bethea that replacing a super crappy Safety and a good one with two good ones doesn't make it better

OLB you are right though. I like Markus Golden and think he will be great, but has also been injured like Vernon. Two 3rd round players Carter and OX haven't shown enough, but who are they replacing? Kareem Martin is still here so even if he starts the difference is Markus Golden for Vernon Oliver plus a 2nd year Carter who was coming on late and a 3rd round rookie. They don't have to be that much better for OLB to be better.

CBs we are replacing Eli Apple and then BW Webb with our Top CB in the draft who I love DeAndre Baker or second year player Sam Beal. Not to mention the depth we added with Love who can also play some safety. Jackrabbit is back so you really don't think Baker or maybe even Beal will play better than BW Webb or Apple? I mean to me they are better and the depth is much better. Haley is still here also who showed promise.

Wow, look what has become of this world.

This team has been garbage for almost a decade, why did we change the roster!?!

the old mix was proven to not be working and the idea one needs a playmaker at WR is out-dated as the Pats and others have demonstrated repeatedly.

What matters more is system/scheme as well as its execution. Much more so then the talent in the system.

Did Danny think Julian Edelman was amazing when he was drafted in the 7th round?

Who flipping cares what this guy thinks? He is a person with an opinion and a platform. What he THINKS, what any of us THINK, doesnt make a damn bit of difference. He has his opinions and gets paid to publish them. Good for him. He is entitled.

It never ceases to amaze me how a writers opinion, prediction, etc... of the Giants-be it a prediction about their record, season outlook or, God Forbid, whether Daniel Jones was the right pick- can send people over the edge if they dont agree with it!

Opinions, especially "expert" opinions, are truly like assholes....I mean, think back: in the past two Giants Super Bowl victories, how many experts predicted the Giants to win? In fact, how many experts picked the Giants to win ANY of their playoff games either year?!?!? Answer: not a lot. Did it matter???????

In comment 14443452 TMS said:

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animosity for DG in the local press. Keep writing hit pieces week after week . HTF needs them. We will see when the season begins.

I dont get it, DG has gotten more hate in 1 year than Reese ever did who was treated with kids gloves. How many times has fatboy Francessca ranted on about Reese?

he’s probably correct. But the “plan” is the correct one to build a consistent winner. The press only looks short term for headlines and clickbait.

Because he doesn't want to, plain and simple.

He doesn't see that the Giants couldn't cover opposing WR's for love or money last year, which is why they've revamped their entire Secondary except for Janoris Jenkins. They've got two new starting Safeties, and if their CB's are all young and unproven, well, you've got to start somewhere, and since when did building through the draft become a bad thing?

He doesn't see that they added a potentially dominant NT who's a lot more than your prototypical "two-down-run-stuffer." A huge guy who can impact the pass-rush in a variety of ways, and make life a hell of a lot easier for his fellow D-Linemen and Linebackers, too.

Oh, and he doesn't think much of Daniel Jones, either. Big surprise.

Graziano is generating clicks.

Just tune it out at this point. This is the narrative until something on the field changes.

He knows Giant fans are easily trolled. Understanding that simple fact is what launched him into a national position. All you have to do get massive impressions is to say something controversial about the Giants and it will get widely shared and commented on. That is the goal of their job, their bosses don't care if it is accurate, they care about views. It should be no surprise to anyone that Ranaan is following the same script.

Step one: get rid of the underachievers, malcontents and misfits.
Step two: replace those with youthful talent, when available, and proven vets. If you make a mistake along the way, admit it and move on quickly.
Step three: Build through the draft.


DG seems to be on course.

In comment 14443345 Damon said:

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Vernon was declining always hurt... Zietler is a stud lineman at a position one could argue of most need... And they picked up 2 defensive starters in the first round...

going into the offseason i think most of us thought RT was the position of most need, and were comfortable with the idea of brown at RG. BBI consensus other position of most need was edge rusher.

i don't fault gettleman for rebuilding the lines from the inside out. i also don't fault him for going so heavy on DBs in this draft if that's where the value was. the team needed a full overhaul by the time he arrived.

Watch this non-effort here from last year:

We'll see how he does in Washington. Twice a year. A lot of good football minds did not understand disposing of Collins, especially for nothing.

Graziano hated the move, so that's one thing in its favor.

If the Browns thought that Peppers was All Pro caliber, they would not have traded him. They would have traded next year's pick. You don't build franchises by trading one All Pro for another.

want to tie up $14/year on a box safety who can't cover.

In comment 14443565 Reese's Pieces said:

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We'll see how he does in Washington. Twice a year. A lot of good football minds did not understand disposing of Collins, especially for nothing. Graziano hated the move, so that's one thing in its favor. If the Browns thought that Peppers was All Pro caliber, they would not have traded him. They would have traded next year's pick. You don't build franchises by trading one All Pro for another.

When you are in love with the idea of what an OBJ talent (if his head is on right) can do for your offense you certainly WOULD trade a Safety even a potential all pro one for that.

In comment 14443565 Reese's Pieces said:

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We'll see how he does in Washington. Twice a year. A lot of good football minds did not understand disposing of Collins, especially for nothing. Graziano hated the move, so that's one thing in its favor. If the Browns thought that Peppers was All Pro caliber, they would not have traded him. They would have traded next year's pick. You don't build franchises by trading one All Pro for another.

The Giants wouldn't have taken that trade... they said they wanted Peppers.

In comment 14443381 GiantGrit said:

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How are people still hung up on the lack of plan story line? I think its reasonable to ask whether getting rid of Collins and Odell was the right decision, but they clearly have a plan. The right plan? I don't know yet. But i see it clearly.

People are easily swayed by talking pts be it sports or politics. The narrative about the Giants has been repeated enough that fans who don’t follow the Giants of course would have that POV

Aside from everything others have mentioned about how Dave is revamping the entire team, and how it obvious it is that he is maximizing capability at every critical position, it's boldly clear that he and Shurmur are drafting a specific personality to match their system and locker room culture.

For instance, it's getting more and more obvious that Haskins is a better character fit for Snyder's Gang than in the Giants' locker room. Same goes, to a lesser extent, for Lock. Once Murray was gone (and his diminutive size is a real concern) the only choice left was Jones.

Jeez, it's not hard to suss out the logic of that.

with two of his guys just blowing the tackle. I swear some people sound like the guy that dates a girl for a couple years, they split up and than convinces himself she was an ugly whore anyway, good riddance.

There is a ton of optimism about young unproven talent, but this is the NFL and most guys that do go on to have 10 year careers are barely serviceable their rookie year. We have a ton of those guys and no depth anywhere. Sure maybe we can have a winning season if the team stays healthy, Eli shows he's still capable with an O-Line, and the young secondary figures out the game real fast (have my doubts on this one) so we can generate pressure through scheme. Our pash rush was anemic until Vernon came back from injury. Not saying it was even average with Vernon and he's not a big sack guy, but when he was out last year opposing teams had ALL DAY to throw, I think people are forgetting the beginning of last season. This team has had a bunch of turnover again this year and to expect it to gel right away isn't likely.

To say this team doesn't have a plan though is horseshit. This was going to take a few years to turnaround, especially because the vision for the team is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than it was under JR. If 2020 doesn't result in a winning season and nothing insane happens, everyone will need to go and we'll need to start over.

In comment 14443614 Zeke's Alibi said:

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with two of his guys just blowing the tackle. I swear some people sound like the guy that dates a girl for a couple years, they split up and than convinces himself she was an ugly whore anyway, good riddance.

He takes himself right out of the play there.

In comment 14443668 RobCarpenter said:

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In comment 14443614 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: with two of his guys just blowing the tackle. I swear some people sound like the guy that dates a girl for a couple years, they split up and than convinces himself she was an ugly whore anyway, good riddance. He takes himself right out of the play there.

Here's a clear missed tackle.



I might seem like I'm nitpicking - just noting that he wasn't this great player last year.

are two completely different things. Saying you don't give effort is like the biggest slap in the face you can say to an athlete and that sure as shit isn't LC.

and he's now the highest paid S in the league. He's tied for the 6th highest paid DB even including corners.

Passing on that contract (and hopefully getting back a comp pick) is a much more straightforward decision than OBJ - who is among the elite at his position.

A without shitting on the Giants is like a day without sunshine. Couldn't care less what he thinks.

I'm running low on Joe Montana pictures. Smile, Danny.

In comment 14443684 Zeke's Alibi said:

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are two completely different things. Saying you don't give effort is like the biggest slap in the face you can say to an athlete and that sure as shit isn't LC.

That's fair. I was lazy in my word choice.

Just like you all did when he wrote this .
Foundational Rot - ( New Window )

In comment 14443366 JonC said:

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he could be correct. Hard to argue the young talent is better than the proven talent we moved out.

Wow an ubias objective view..refreshing

In comment 14443373 JonC said:

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as will pass protection, but we're down one playmaker at WR, one at Edge, and a lot of young parts to integrate.

you mean the playmaker WR who only played half of the games over the past two seasons, quit at the end of last season, and has shit on this franchise outside of the lines? That playmaker WR?

We will miss his potential... maybe.

if you read the article

this as well

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Kevin Seifert, national NFL writer: New York Giants. Their moves were confounding, from dispatching two of their best young players in OBJ (26 years old) and Collins (25) to reaching for quarterback Daniel Jones. But from a bigger picture, their contradictory vision and an old-school approach suggest this franchise is headed toward an extended down cycle.

and start running victory laps about returning to post season play. We are cleaning the horse stables that have not been cleaned out for quit some time. laziness comes to mind.

In comment 14443728 oldutican said:

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Just like you all did when he wrote this . Foundational Rot - ( New Window )

Plenty of people were beating that same drum in 2013, especially after three lousy drafts and that stupid Super Bowl clock. But just because Graziano was right in 2013 doesn't mean he's right in 2019.

In comment 14443384 GiantBlue said:

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Reese treated the OL like an annoyance he had to fill.

This is a BBI myth that actually gives Reese too much credit.

The myth/conventional wisdom on BBI is "Reese didn't care about the offensive line." But if you look at the Giants' drafting and free agent signings while he was GM, he threw enormous resources at the O-line. Lots of draft picks (including a first for Pugh, a second for Beatty, a second for Richburg, and later picks for a bunch of guys), lots of free agent dollars (Baas and Schwartz off the top of my head). It's not that he didn't care about fixing the line. He clearly cared A LOT. He just flat-out failed, time and time again.

Failure is worse than indifference. Indifference implies that if he'd just tried, he could have fixed it. He did try and didn't fix it. The draftees fizzled. The free agents too. Lots of resources and years down the drain.

Worse.

Got rid of a lot of veterans and thought the young guys were going to not only replace them but make us better. I pray it doesn't end the same.

You'd think the Giants just broke down a team that won 10-12 games a year.

Beckham, Vernon, Harrison, Collins...serial losers as Giants.

Gettleman isn't my favorite guy, but the criticism of his dismantling of the worst Giants teams I've ever seen makes no sense. Those four guys are among the worst Giants I've ever had the displeasure of cheering for. I liked the '90s Reeves teams better...those guys at least won more games.

2013-2018 is the worst era of Giants football I've ever seen, and those four losers are a big reason for that.

Kevin Seifert, national NFL writer: New York Giants. Their moves were confounding, from dispatching two of their best young players in OBJ (26 years old) and Collins (25) to reaching for quarterback Daniel Jones. But from a bigger picture, their contradictory vision and an old-school approach suggest this franchise is headed toward an extended down cycle.

The overwhelming majority of national guys, not just at ESPN, think this team is a dumpster fire. Peter King last week had us 28 out of 32 teams. Wait until the preseason stuff comes out during training camp. I'd be shocked if we get picked for anything other than last place.

In comment 14443426 Britt in VA said:

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if the Giants have a good season this year. Remember all of this, and hammer these guys accordingly, and never let them forget it.

5 points from finishing 7-1. I'm not saying this is a 14-2 team but the way the media continues to hammer them is unwarranted and honestly fucking stupid. I read an NFL.com article that said the Cardinals were more likely to make the playoffs. It's absurd.

wrote a very good article a couple years back regarding how the Giants drafting had created the mess they were in and was spot on. This article is off base though.

OBJ needed to go for reasons discussed and I think it is better for Jones when he takes over in the long run.

Vernon was hurt too much and that usually gets worst as one ages. Collins was poor in coverage and not worth signing on past accomplishments. Snacks wanted more money and he provided little pash rush and also had injury and age concerns.

I see a much improved O-line with depth and competition. I am a little concerned with WR but will trust Shurmer's offense to score a lot. Defense is bigger, faster and young with a lot of potential in the secondary.

Regarding Jones being tied to the success of the draft I do not agree. If we get three impact players then it is still a very good draft if Jones is a game manager.

losing with young talent that jelled late and heading into a good draft in 2020 and a lot of cap room?

different and more tolerable than the horror show of the last two years

it always was going to take three years to recover from an aging qb and no ol or dl or db unit or lb unit.

We were really really bad.

Just quote Lou Brown from Major League "The local press thinks we would save everyone a lot of time and trouble if we just went out and shot ourselves"
Lou Brown's pregame speech - ( New Window )

that makes me feel a lot better about DG's moves and plan for the future.



Seriously, very , very seriously.

and we'll wait until we see how Peppers plays.

Shaun O'Hara was very complimentary about Peppers. Says he lined up in many places in the defense to keep them guessing. Says he can play slot corner.

As for last year's defense, honestly when a team coming off a three win season starts the next season 1-7, do you expect the veterans to play as hard as they would if the game mattered. A lot of fans were rooting for losses at the end of the season so the team would have a top ten draft pick.

In comment 14443799 The_Boss said:

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Kevin Seifert, national NFL writer: New York Giants. Their moves were confounding, from dispatching two of their best young players in OBJ (26 years old) and Collins (25) to reaching for quarterback Daniel Jones. But from a bigger picture, their contradictory vision and an old-school approach suggest this franchise is headed toward an extended down cycle. The overwhelming majority of national guys, not just at ESPN, think this team is a dumpster fire. Peter King last week had us 28 out of 32 teams. Wait until the preseason stuff comes out during training camp. I'd be shocked if we get picked for anything other than last place.

Why are you so fixated on what the national media says? This team was full of losers & they are fixing it. I finally see a plan here. Most media is drooling at the thought of Mayfield & Beckham, it’s so predictable.

That I read here. We got rid of some of our best players and have young players,players returning from injury, and rookies to replace them. Until I see improvement on the field, I'd say there is nothing inaccurate with Graziano's article. We drafted a player at #6 who most here, and the majority of the league thought was of poor value. Also, it makes little sense to me to have the #6 player in the draft sitting when this team is in no position to contend for anything. Love to be wrong and time will tell but I am not jumping on the Gettleman bandwagon here until I see better results on the field.

The Giants will get a 3rd or at worst 4th round comp pick plus they brought in a very good replacement for him. Peppers is a phenomenal athlete that is still developing. Beckham will be the real loss but with an improved OL, a healthy Engram, plus Tate and Shepard it won't have a dramatic impact on the offense.

The one big hole on offense is that deep threat the keeps safeties honest. If Corey Coleman or Darius Slayton contribute as the deep threat then this offense could be very good.

With a new QB on board that is hopefully our franchise QB the Giants' main focus, besides addresses the pass rush, should be to find Jones a #1 WR in the draft. It's very rare for young #1 WR's hit free agency so they will have to focus on the draft for a potential WR.

In comment 14443909 Marty866b said:

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That I read here. We got rid of some of our best players and have young players,players returning from injury, and rookies to replace them. Until I see improvement on the field, I'd say there is nothing inaccurate with Graziano's article. We drafted a player at #6 who most here, and the majority of the league thought was of poor value. Also, it makes little sense to me to have the #6 player in the draft sitting when this team is in no position to contend for anything. Love to be wrong and time will tell but I am not jumping on the Gettleman bandwagon here until I see better results on the field.

Here’s a friendly reminder of pre-DG
... - ( New Window )

yeah,great. That team quit but was also very banged up. Last year we were pretty healthy, had a great running back added and won 5 games. Sorry, not on the Gettleman bandwagon until I see a good football team. We gave up on some very good football players this off season and let's see if the new players are capable of picking up the slack. The jury is out on Gettleman IMO.

So in that sense, he has a point.

But they play a puff cake schedule and their line won’t kneecap them like last year.. so I could see them winning a few more games and playing better than they did the first 3/4 of last year.

But does that mean they improved much? I don’t think so.

This team has less talent than last year?

Snacks, OBJ, Vernon, BW Webb, Curtis Riley, Collins gone.

Daniel Jones, Tate, Zeitler, Remmers, DeMarcus Lawrence, Golden, Beal, Love, Baker, Ballentine, Bethea & Peppers in.

+

A very young roster being a year older.

And the team is less talented than a year ago? C'mon now. This team is much improved on paper. Significantly.