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| 5: Darius Slayton – Auburn – 6’1/190 Grade: 79 Summary: Fourth year junior entry. Slayton arrived at Auburn as an accomplished high school track athlete and enters the NFL with a very high ceiling. His speed and burst are functional and usable on the field, he is much more than a track athlete. He consistently averaged near-20 yards per catch over his career and displayed dominant stretches against SEC cornerbacks.. He is a deep threat who will make a defense account for him at all times. While there are limitations to his game underneath and at the point of attack, this kind of deep threat and ability to extend plays after the catch is worth the risk. Boom or bust. *I am taking a chance on Slayton, I simply have too many plus game notes over the past two seasons to ignore it. The Auburn offense is difficult to scout as it could create numerous false opportunities but at the same time it may prevent a guy like Slayton from really showing everything he can do. I love the way he moves and his worst case may be a Ted Ginn caliber vertical threat. NFL Comparison: Ted Ginn / NO |
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| Appealing small-school wideout with the size and athleticism that helps him stand-out when the tape is rolling. He's a springy leaper with a wide catch radius who snares balls outside his frame or goes up and over cornerbacks to bring it in. His routes are upright and dull and won't create much NFL separation, but his outstanding testing numbers show he has the ability to play faster and quicker for teams willing to stash and coach him. White is a developmental prospect with a plus ceiling if the coaching clicks with him. |
They'll take a WR high this year, but with Engram, Tate, Shep and Lattimer, we have weapons this year.
Barkley
Engram
Tate
Shepard
is 4 legit options. I'd like a big body WR to emerge, but Engram can line up more at WR.
Yeah, no. Golden Tate has 38 TD receptions in 137 games. Beckham has 44 in 59 games. Odell also averages 14 YPC for his career. Tate hasn't cracked 12 YPC since 2014.
He's a very good possession receiver (or, at least, he has been - turning 31 this year so the decline could come at any time), but that's it. Don't expect him to break many big plays.
Agree. Perennial separation-creator, makes contested catches, creates YAC and hasn't missed many games.
Yes, it's crazy to think anything but his receptions total will be comparable to Beckham.
He's here because of his other qualities I'd guess: blocking, leadership, decent hands, YAC
And I think having played alongside Calvin Johnson, probably doesn't have the ego of needing to have the ball all the time.
I.e., if the Giants can get a sustained ground game going, it will not only help open up the passing game, but allow the passing game to not determine wins and losses.
Shepard is solid for what he is. Tate is tough as nails with a knack for finding space, and you have a RB who is arguably a better WR than many who play the position. If the Giants can get better production out of Engram's skill set, this could be a very productive group of receivers.
Slayton is fast as hell, and can get plenty of YAC. Unfortunately, he managed to drop most of what was thrown to him in mini camp according to what reports I could find.
White is a bigger body with speed and good hands. But he isn't quick, and is as raw as sushi. He needs lots of development, and might now be a better practice squad candidate.
As for the others after the other starter Sterling Shepard, they certainly have a good number of guys who have shown something on offense and/or special teams. This is unlike the crew of WR wanna-bees assembled by Reese and Ross. And some of these guys could be really good if the lights finally go on for them.
Too many people are hung up on the #1 WR thing. I'd rather have a bunch of guys who make plays than rely on just one or two guys anytime. And I think that's just where this offense is headed - no major stars other than Barkley but a bunch of guys who can make plays.
It's way too early to worry about who stays and who goes. This will all shake out this summer.
Blast from the past! I have not seen that image in quite some time. Is that magazine still in business?
Shepard is a solid #2.
Golden Tate is ridiculously underrated.
#3 WR is a question mark.
No, it’s not a great WR group - it will not be a liability or “concern” either. Shep and Tate are perfect for Shurmur’s offense.
Golden Tate is good - ( New Window )
As it turns out even though he is an outstanding talent, they did not, and could not, put together winning seasons with OBJ on the roster.
The Giants have shifted their personnel and are moving into a power game format -- featuring a big Offensive line that can power block, a premier RB with a bruiser right behind him to change the pace, and play action options spreading the ball around. They have a tall speedy receiver in Engram who can play outside and up the seam, they have two better than adequate receivers who can play strong in the slot and move to the outside. They also have a stable of receivers who have the potential to contribute in Coleman, Latimer, Shepard and hopefully Slayton. They also have an amazing receiver in Barkley. they have a pretty good FB in Penny, and a gritty receiver in Ellison.
I think you make a game out of all those pieces. The opposing defense is always gonna have to account for Barkley, they are going to have to account for Engram when he's on the field - and they are going to be guessing when Shep, Tate etal are on the field with Barkley -- They will concentrate on high percentage plays and take their shots down field when they can. Nothing wrong with that - you can win football games that way and hopefully wear down opposing defenses..
I think Slayton will take time to develop. He has skills, for sure, so the high ceiling is much needed.
I see us spreading the ball out fast, week in and week out, and run, run, run a lot more than year's past.
We will miss OBJ. He did draw double teams at times. We have no one like that unless you consider Saquon who will have an "eye" on him each snap.
It’ll be interesting to see how Coleman looks now that he’s in his second year of this offense. His KO returns showed that his straight line speed is as good as advertised.
other teams did that to the Giants with Beckham, the OL is as much a part of that as a deep threat. You don't have time for a deep threat to make a difference when you can't pass block.
Hopefully the OL additions create the necessary gap and screens become a weapon, slants are viable, and even short seam passes to Engram, and then if teams can't put 8 in the box it opens things up.
We might find though without being able to extend plays, Eli limits the peak the offense can achieve.
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if teams put an 8th man in the box to stop the run, it makes it easier to pass. Like others have said it's not crazy to think Tate can put up comparable numbers to OBJ.
Yes, it's crazy to think anything but his receptions total will be comparable to Beckham.
# of 1st down receptions may be similar or even favor Tate. I'll concede big plays and TDs ought to favor OBJ - if he can stay healthy - but someone who can make a high number of catches and create first downs helps this offense.
But I would tell you that there are plenty of teams that have a track record of proven success in recent years that don't have a proven, #1 star WR.
Since the last NYG Super Bowl win - most of those teams DON'T have a clear cut #1, All-Pro caliber WR...Philly, Carolina, Seattle, Baltimore, SF all definitely didn't. I think you could also argue that Denver and the LA Rams are close.
you are such a love bunny -- it's just an example.
If you want more examples:
see the Minnesota VIkings - where they feature a 5th rounder and UDFA as their #1 &2 WRs
Golden Tate was the Seahawks #1 Receiver when they won the Super Bowl
Anquon Boldin was the #1 WR of the Ravens the last time they won the Super Bowl and not much behind him
The Steelers won the Super Bowl with Hines Ward as their #1 WR
But didnt we lose him in game 12 of 2018 season, and team scored more points during his absence?
I am not a hugh fan of Golden Tate but he is a great blocking WR....should help Barkley long break aways.
But didnt we lose him in game 12 of 2018 season, and team scored more points during his absence?
I am not a hugh fan of Golden Tate but he is a great blocking WR....should help Barkley long break aways.
Yup some great offensive games without OBJ. Now we have a better OL and have added Tate. Think we will be more than fine offensively.
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Golden Tate is going wildly underrated. He's closer to OBJ than he is to being just a JAG.
Yeah, no. Golden Tate has 38 TD receptions in 137 games. Beckham has 44 in 59 games. Odell also averages 14 YPC for his career. Tate hasn't cracked 12 YPC since 2014.
He's a very good possession receiver (or, at least, he has been - turning 31 this year so the decline could come at any time), but that's it. Don't expect him to break many big plays.
Yeah, yeah. He's closer to Odell than a league average wide receiver.
Yes they lost a huge gamebreaker and unique talent in OBJ. But his rare talents just never translated to this offense being able to sustain success. That's not his fault, that's mostly the organization's fault, but it doesn't change the reality. His talent loss was great and we'll see fewer highlight reel plays, but it's uncertain how much that will impact overall offensive production.
Coleman, Engram, and Latimer are all various levels of interesting as well - especially the first 2. Engram's YPC last year was almost 13 and had the 4th most YAC yards of all TE's despite missing time. For his career Coleman's YPC is about the same, which is certainly less impressive as a WR but his return ability has clearly evidenced some explosiveness. Both are just 24 years old and were first round draft picks for a reason - they are top notch athletes for their position. They each have an opportunity to step up in a bigger role.
Latimer had the highest YPC (17) on the team last year in very limited time and has the highest career YPC on the team at almost 14. He's also got good size and ST ability. He's hung around the league for a couple extra years compared to the other 2 so it's fair to wonder if he will ever break out though.
Yes they lost a huge gamebreaker and unique talent in OBJ. But his rare talents just never translated to this offense being able to sustain success. That's not his fault, that's mostly the organization's fault, but it doesn't change the reality. His talent loss was great and we'll see fewer highlight reel plays, but it's uncertain how much that will impact overall offensive production.
Coleman, Engram, and Latimer are all various levels of interesting as well - especially the first 2. Engram's YPC last year was almost 13 and had the 4th most YAC yards of all TE's despite missing time. For his career Coleman's YPC is about the same, which is certainly less impressive as a WR but his return ability has clearly evidenced some explosiveness. Both are just 24 years old and were first round draft picks for a reason - they are top notch athletes for their position. They each have an opportunity to step up in a bigger role.
Latimer had the highest YPC (17) on the team last year in very limited time and has the highest career YPC on the team at almost 14. He's also got good size and ST ability. He's hung around the league for a couple extra years compared to the other 2 so it's fair to wonder if he will ever break out though.
You think the Giants WR's (Tate and Shepard at least) are comparable to Diggs and Thielen?
Cook obviously missed most of 2017, but i think Barkley > McKinnon and Murray, though McKinnon a really good receiver.
Rudolph and Engram may be a wash receiving the ball, though most probably take Rudolph as a more complete TE.
But I'm not sure Tate and Shepard are close to Diggs and Thielen
Coleman and Slayton have the attributes, if they can become more consistent pass catchers. I like Coleman's chances of taking the top off a few times this year after having a year to get the offense under his belt, and an obvious draft pick to compete with him.
The good news is that if we have a more dangerous running game, the play action pass becomes much more effective. The play-action pass has always been the Giants' and Eli's bread and butter.
If we tire the opponent out in the first three quarters, with a power running game, then both running and passing will be much easier in the fourth quarter. I think this is a more likely result than 1. our getting a Calvin Johnson clone, and 2. our Oline miraculously holding off rushers while our QB waits for him to get 40 yards down field.
I'm beginning to understand we seem to have a GM and head coach on the same page. It's really quite a change from Reese and TC, or Reese and McAdoo really.
I think he is going to go heavy run and the Giants are going to be about 55/45 pass run split percentage.
Tate was targeted for a reason by the Giants and hopefully Engram advances. Maybe one of the draftees provides a deep threat.
I would not be surprised to see a fee wrinkles added to the offense this year. Using Barkley in WR sets more. I hope more two TE sets which is my favorite.
The improved OL will be the biggest asset to the passing game imo. Eli will excel with reading the coverage and spreading the ball.
The good news is that if we have a more dangerous running game, the play action pass becomes much more effective. The play-action pass has always been the Giants' and Eli's bread and butter.
If we tire the opponent out in the first three quarters, with a power running game, then both running and passing will be much easier in the fourth quarter. I think this is a more likely result than 1. our getting a Calvin Johnson clone, and 2. our Oline miraculously holding off rushers while our QB waits for him to get 40 yards down field.
Marty, Kevin Zeitler is known much more for his pass-blocking than his run-blocking, and Mike Remmers graded out slightly higher as a pass-blocker than a run-blocker according to PFF (take that for what it's worth).
Shepherd
Coleman
Slayton
Lattimore
Fowler
And of course the great EE
Plenty of targets not named Barkley.....
I’m much more concerned about whether we can finally be good at covering the tight end.
Engram was supposedly a pretty good route runner. He’s been hurt but if can realize his potential and add him to Tate and Sheppard I don’t think Receiver is that thin. There aren’t many guys as talented as OBJ in the NFL but I’ve felt for a while that the rule changes have made WR more like RB than people want to admit. Year after year NE finds guy who help then win without having that stud.
Never mind Barkley who has to be considered part of the receiver group.
Comparable to the Vikings?? Thelien, Diggs and Beasley? Yeah, no they aren’t close to comparable.
I've loved Gettleman's offseason, but I expect Tate to be a big miss.
There's nothing about him that justifies 22M over 2 years.
I suspect he quickly takes the mantle of mentor, locker room, pro, guy -- the euphemism for sucks.
I've loved Gettleman's offseason, but I expect Tate to be a big miss.
There's nothing about him that justifies 22M over 2 years.
I suspect he quickly takes the mantle of mentor, locker room, pro, guy -- the euphemism for sucks.
He’s also the most elusive WR in the league and was on pace for another 1000 yard season before a mid season trade ...
Tate = good - ( New Window )
His game has always been about run-after-the-catch
He was top 10 among WRs in YAC - in 2018
Comparable to the Vikings?? Thelien, Diggs and Beasley? Yeah, no they aren’t close to comparable.
You can say that about half of the Super Bowl Pats teams.
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Tate was like 89th in the league in yards per reception. He's been under 11 yards a catch in back-to-back years. He's not the guy he was when he first went to Detroit.
His game has always been about run-after-the-catch
He was top 10 among WRs in YAC - in 2018
He can lead the league in YAC, but if he's getting less than 11 yards a clip, he's basically competing with Barkley for dump offs. That's no way to construct an offensive.
The Giants have plenty to prove in the vertical game.
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in a lot of ways it appears Shurmur has recreated a similar group to his 2017 Vikings. QB is better, RB is better as long as Barkley is healthy, and WR/OL groups are both comparable.
Yes they lost a huge gamebreaker and unique talent in OBJ. But his rare talents just never translated to this offense being able to sustain success. That's not his fault, that's mostly the organization's fault, but it doesn't change the reality. His talent loss was great and we'll see fewer highlight reel plays, but it's uncertain how much that will impact overall offensive production.
Coleman, Engram, and Latimer are all various levels of interesting as well - especially the first 2. Engram's YPC last year was almost 13 and had the 4th most YAC yards of all TE's despite missing time. For his career Coleman's YPC is about the same, which is certainly less impressive as a WR but his return ability has clearly evidenced some explosiveness. Both are just 24 years old and were first round draft picks for a reason - they are top notch athletes for their position. They each have an opportunity to step up in a bigger role.
Latimer had the highest YPC (17) on the team last year in very limited time and has the highest career YPC on the team at almost 14. He's also got good size and ST ability. He's hung around the league for a couple extra years compared to the other 2 so it's fair to wonder if he will ever break out though.
You think the Giants WR's (Tate and Shepard at least) are comparable to Diggs and Thielen?
Cook obviously missed most of 2017, but i think Barkley > McKinnon and Murray, though McKinnon a really good receiver.
Rudolph and Engram may be a wash receiving the ball, though most probably take Rudolph as a more complete TE.
But I'm not sure Tate and Shepard are close to Diggs and Thielen
Today we'd obviously take the Minny duo today over Tate/Shep because it's 2 guys in their respective primes vs. 1 prime/1 perhaps end of prime. But if Tate has a solid year in the aggregate I think they should end up statistically comparable to the Minny duo in 2017 (combined ~150 receptions, 2000 yards, 12 tds). Our duo wasn't far off that last year even with Tate's production falling off post-trade and Shepard riding backseat to OBJ. All 4 players are stylistically comparable in their ability to flex either outside or in the slot.
Rudolph had 57 recepts for 550 yards in 2017 - which Engram outgained last year in 5 less games. Certainly not as complete of a player, but in the receiving department overall I think the 2017 Vikings comparable isn't far off (unless Tate goes over the cliff).
To that offense, without Odell, we add Golden Tate, Kevin Zeitler and Mike Remmers. And to those defenses we lose Olivier Vernon but we add Markus Golden, Dexter Lawrence, Oshane Ximines, DeAndre Baker, Antoine Bethea, Jabrill Peppers, and Julian Love. This team is deeper, younger, faster and deeper. We're not there yet, but we're far far closer than we were than when we fired McAdoo and Reese. The arrow is pointing up, like it or not.
I'm not sure if Tate can sustain the pace he was on pre-trade last year or if Shepard is capable of that big of a breakout, though I do expect him to increase his production at least modestly with more targets. But I do suspect Shurmur is trying to build an offense in the mold of what won him assistant of the year in 2017.
Barkley is going to be the main focus for any defense weekly can the new guy Tate, Engram at TE, Shepard really become something close to what OBJ brought to the field very big question? Everyone one else are today JAG on this roster will any of them take a major step forward that’s hard to say yes. The problem is that we’re being told it’s not a rebuild but if this is not a rebuild I would really hate to see one. This is a team without direction now and in the future because they believe they are better than the record shows but lost most of the players to say we have skilled players.
Case Keenum 2017 = 67%, 7.4 yards per completition, 22 td, 7 int
Eli Manning 2018 = 66%, 7.5 yards per completition, 21 td, 11 int
The question isn't what OBJ brought to the field, it's can they do what's asked of them in Shurmur's offense? Shurmur is likely running a lot of what he ran extremely successfully in 2017, that is what got him the job in the first place. The moves they've made this offseason - including signing his old RT Remmers, adding a quality RG, and a 2nd WR flexible to play both slot and outside - indicate that's his plan for this upcoming year. Will it work? No idea. But it doesn't seem illogical. From a talent standpoint it seems possible. That unit ended up ranked 10th in the NFL, 7th in rush yards and 11th in passing yards. For reference, last year we were also 11th in passing yards and 24th in rush yards, 17th overall.
The 2017 vikings also had the #1 defense in the NFL, which is obviously a totally separate story.
To that offense, without Odell, we add Golden Tate, Kevin Zeitler and Mike Remmers. And to those defenses we lose Olivier Vernon but we add Markus Golden, Dexter Lawrence, Oshane Ximines, DeAndre Baker, Antoine Bethea, Jabrill Peppers, and Julian Love. This team is deeper, younger, faster and deeper. We're not there yet, but we're far far closer than we were than when we fired McAdoo and Reese. The arrow is pointing up, like it or not.
If there was a standing ovation button, I’d click it
Small addition: Golden Tate, and his skillset, is perfect for Shurmur’s offense ... people assume he’s in decline because he got traded mid season (on pace for 1000+ yards) and didn’t light it up in a new offense behind 3 other options in the pass game.
He’s still a very good WR, although I expect WR to be in 1st/2nd round consideration next year. Plug a hole or 2 in free agency with some “splash” signings and then draft offense heavy next year.
Time to build the young core around Daniel Jones. Tate is an excellent placeholder for now (he’ll be cut in 2 years)
It is amazing how obsessed you are with me. The internet name calling, the trolling, the fact that for some reason you are convinced I’m a previous poster you clearly disliked despite the fact I’ve never had an account on here before - just been reading the site for a long time and know the “lingo” ... you’re a treasure.
Come up with 5 better G tandems better than the Giants yet, with objective measurable supporting evidence? Looking forward to it.
Seems like Hernandez/Zeitler would’ve graded as well/better than all of the examples you provided ... keep trying though. Or just name call more behind your computer - like well-adjusted adults do. Have a great day! Go Giants!
You can have a well thought out counterpoint if you’d like, because the objective measurable data doesn’t support your claims that the Giants G tandem isn’t 1 of the best in the league with the capability of being the best in the league. It already is 1 of the best, and if Hernandez improves, it will be the best G tandem
PFF’s garbage > “Zeitler’s never been all pro and Zach Martin is so good that whoever the Cowboys start at the other guard will be better ... and then here’s the Saints tandem who isn’t as good [it’s their tackles that are excellent] and the Browns have an unknown but they traded Zeitler so there’s are automatically better and ... dupe. Yeah, dupe!”
Keep it coming. I’ll continue to make claims and support my opinions with measurable data and/or direct observation. You continue to ... do whatever it is you do.
Zeitler and Hernandez are1 of the best G tandems in the NFL - Have a lovely day!
To that offense, without Odell, we add Golden Tate, Kevin Zeitler and Mike Remmers. And to those defenses we lose Olivier Vernon but we add Markus Golden, Dexter Lawrence, Oshane Ximines, DeAndre Baker, Antoine Bethea, Jabrill Peppers, and Julian Love. This team is deeper, younger, faster and deeper. We're not there yet, but we're far far closer than we were than when we fired McAdoo and Reese. The arrow is pointing up, like it or not.
Goddamn you're making so much sense lately it's scary. Maybe it's just because I agree with you wholeheartedly. LOL
To that offense, without Odell, we add Golden Tate, Kevin Zeitler and Mike Remmers. And to those defenses we lose Olivier Vernon but we add Markus Golden, Dexter Lawrence, Oshane Ximines, DeAndre Baker, Antoine Bethea, Jabrill Peppers, and Julian Love. This team is deeper, younger, faster and deeper. We're not there yet, but we're far far closer than we were than when we fired McAdoo and Reese. The arrow is pointing up, like it or not.
Except that they had the same offensive last year with a talent like Beckham, and they were exceedingly average. If your argument is that Tate will do better in this system than Beckham would, you're crazy. There are reasons why Tate is on his fourth team, and top of the list is that teams see more value with other players.
Pointing to games last year don't help your cause. Washington started Mark Sanchez, who threw a pick six and then let Barkley run all over them. Our top receiver that game was Engram with 77 yards. You wave your hand at scoring 0 against the 9-7 Titans and don't mention that the Cowboys didn't even play Elliot that game. They lost the Colts game.
The defense being good is predicated on a whole bunch of rookies being able to play day one.
Except that they had the same offensive last year with a talent like Beckham, and they were exceedingly average. If your argument is that Tate will do better in this system than Beckham would, you're crazy. There are reasons why Tate is on his fourth team, and top of the list is that teams see more value with other players.
3/5's of the OL is different (all 3 are upgrades) and the 2 remaining starters are in year 2 vs. year 1.
So they downgraded from OBJ ---> Tate.
Upgraded the overall OL.
So not the same offense. And while they were exceedingly average they scored more points than the rest of the division - which we'd all sign for on the spot right now probably.
We've got a couple of guys with enough speed to take the top off of a defense. Their hands could be an issue, but not their speed. Regardless, no one WR is going to replace Beckham's production. It's going to take a team effort, and no doubt that's what the Giants are counting on.
Thing about Shepard and Tate - they are both very good and importantly interchangable. Will be very difficult to predict how they'll be used on each play. With respect to WR type production - you have categorize Engram as a WR. Barkley is a very receiver out of the backfield same-same Gallman. And, they have two wrs who can take the top of a defense in Coleman and Slayton.
again, not worried at all about the position this year or next