and it was clear to me near the deadline that the Pelicans are gonna play hard ball with the Lakers and not just place him in their laps as is always expected with the Lakers and their fans.
RE: RE: The C's have the single best trade asset of any team... Â
In comment 14444597 nygiants16 said:
...shine has come off of jayson tatum...[/quote]
Who are you kidding? If Jayson Tatum was on the Knicks, you'd think he was awesomesauce.
RE: RE: RE: I don't think that Lakers offer is better at all... Â
I can’t believe some of the things being written here . I don’t mean to be rude but it’s clear some people simply don’t watch the games closely. I absolutely trade this pick and whatever it takes to get Anthony Davis. This is a 26 year old that was playing like the best player in the league a year ago. He’s a complete player with no weakness.
And the Knicks can absolutely match or beat any Lakers or Celtics offer. That’s not being biased, that’s simply the truth. And I’m higher on the Lakers assets than most people. But Ingram’s health is way too risky.
Do whatever it takes to pair Durant and Davis with another max or a couple vet free agents. Depth and picks are overrated with good teams. You have the chance to have 2 top 5 players in their prime along with an all nba guard. You do that and be a contender for the next 5 years...
The C's also have the motivation of needing to trade for A.D. in order to convince Kyrie to stay.
He might be, but if you look at Barret's numbers they're awfully similar to what Tatum put up and Barret would offer more years of team control to NO.
Also, your notion of getting AD and then signing Kyrie is a huge gamble on Boston's part. I'm not saying it wont happen but that's still a huge risk and Kyrie hasn't been a model of consistency where you may feel great taking that chance.
Kyrie and A.D. are friends... it's a gamble you have to take, IMO.
For me, Ingram healthy, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick, and a future #1 is a better deal. I don't see how yours is clear cut better.
let's say Griffin does in fact value Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball more then whatever the 3 best Knicks young players are - the Knicks can trump #4 with #3, and add in more future picks to close the gap. And, as already stated, the Knicks young players come without injury concerns and offer more years of team control.
I think whatever gap their may be in talent between the players (if there even is one in the eyes of Griffin), is closed by all of that.
I can’t believe some of the things being written here . I don’t mean to be rude but it’s clear some people simply don’t watch the games closely. I absolutely trade this pick and whatever it takes to get Anthony Davis. This is a 26 year old that was playing like the best player in the league a year ago. He’s a complete player with no weakness.
And the Knicks can absolutely match or beat any Lakers or Celtics offer. That’s not being biased, that’s simply the truth. And I’m higher on the Lakers assets than most people. But Ingram’s health is way too risky.
Do whatever it takes to pair Durant and Davis with another max or a couple vet free agents. Depth and picks are overrated with good teams. You have the chance to have 2 top 5 players in their prime along with an all nba guard. You do that and be a contender for the next 5 years...
He's a complete player with no weakness, when healthy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The C's have the single best trade asset of any team... Â
draft picks the celtics have are mediocre at best...
why is robert williams an asset?
c
Tatum makes the deal go, obviously. He is the centerpiece. The surrounding parts are good enough to pair with Tatum if we're talking a one year rental... and we are.
The Knicks might have slightly better side change... but if we're being objective: side change isn't the deciding factor at decision time. It's the main course.
For me, Ingram healthy, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick, and a future #1 is a better deal. I don't see how yours is clear cut better.
let's say Griffin does in fact value Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball more then whatever the 3 best Knicks young players are - the Knicks can trump #4 with #3, and add in more future picks to close the gap. And, as already stated, the Knicks young players come without injury concerns and offer more years of team control.
I think whatever gap their may be in talent between the players (if there even is one in the eyes of Griffin), is closed by all of that.
Good post, a more compelling argument for me.
Can someone tell me why a team, be it the Knicks or Pelicans, Â
The C's also have the motivation of needing to trade for A.D. in order to convince Kyrie to stay.
He might be, but if you look at Barret's numbers they're awfully similar to what Tatum put up and Barret would offer more years of team control to NO.
Also, your notion of getting AD and then signing Kyrie is a huge gamble on Boston's part. I'm not saying it wont happen but that's still a huge risk and Kyrie hasn't been a model of consistency where you may feel great taking that chance.
Kyrie and A.D. are friends... it's a gamble you have to take, IMO.
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The C's have the single best trade asset of any team... Â
draft picks the celtics have are mediocre at best...
why is robert williams an asset?
c
Tatum makes the deal go, obviously. He is the centerpiece. The surrounding parts are good enough to pair with Tatum if we're talking a one year rental... and we are.
The Knicks might have slightly better side change... but if we're being objective: side change isn't the deciding factor at decision time. It's the main course.
what are these surrounding parts thr celtics have? stop mentioning picks, they are mediocre
RE: Can someone tell me why a team, be it the Knicks or Pelicans, Â
and it was clear to me near the deadline that the Pelicans are gonna play hard ball with the Lakers and not just place him in their laps as is always expected with the Lakers and their fans.
If you are to believe just how adamant AD was against the Celts combined with the luster coming off some of their tradeable assets I think Boston is a lower possibility at this point.
Lakers had a falling out with the Pels and it sure didnt seem like they were too happy with them.
Doesnt mean both are entirely out of it but I think us getting the #3 and having all our FRP + 2 Dal FRPs the next few years puts us squarely in the conversation.
That is a very strong offer. They probably like Barrett quite a bit as they apparently made it clear they would be interested if we landed a top 3 pick. Now to reunite him with Zion is another potential bonus. Barrett arguably could be the highest rated prospect they'd get back in any deal depending on what they think of Tatum, Brown, Kuzma, Ingram or Ball. But honestly none of those guys really lit it up last year. The Lakers getting 4 didn't help but Pels have already made it sound like they also believe their is a sizeable drop from 3 to 4 so....
RE: RE: RE: RE: The C's have the single best trade asset of any team... Â
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
Choice 1 has seemingly been on the table all year and Kyrie has been luke warm to jump at that option and luke warm is putting it nicely.
Its easy to shit on the die-hard knicks fans but this isnt as cut and dry as it usually is.
Durant\Kyrie and Anthony Davis would be a superior trio but with no team depth or #1 picks, while we might be the best in the East, not sure if that trio is enough to win a title by themselves.
Personally, I prefer to keep all the #1 picks and have better team depth with Knox\Jordan\Trier\DSJ\Frank behind a formidable foursome of Durant\Kyrie\Barrett\Robinson.
what are these surrounding parts the celtics have? stop mentioning picks, they are mediocre
To repeat myself (because apparently I have to):
Marcus Smart. Robert Williams. Jaylen Brown (if that's what it takes).
Multiple picks in this year's draft that I have no problem admitting are mediocre... (but they are fine for some throw in material, and of greater value to a rebuilding team)
The future Memphis pick, as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The C's have the single best trade asset of any team... Â
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
how are the knicks a dumpster fire? and why would they be a dumpster fire if they have kd?
Choice 1 has seemingly been on the table all year and Kyrie has been luke warm to jump at that option and luke warm is putting it nicely.
I don't follow you at all.
The C's couldn't trade for A.D. at the trade deadline... not without shipping away Kyrie. They were prevented by some fine-print in the last collective bargaining agreement.
compared Barrett to Jalen Rose. If that's the case you shop the pick.
That is a ridiculous comparison. The only thing they have in common is that they are left handed wing players. I think a realistic outcome for Barrett is Demar Derozan, and he has the upside to be more if his shooting improves.
Barrett was unanimously regarded as the top prospect in this class, and the reason to tank, like 9 months ago. He went out and averaged basically 23-7-4 and somehow that was a disappointment? The Knicks should be thrilled to be is position to get him.
Durant\Kyrie and Anthony Davis would be a superior trio but with no team depth or #1 picks, while we might be the best in the East, not sure if that trio is enough to win a title by themselves.
Personally, I prefer to keep all the #1 picks and have better team depth with Knox\Jordan\Trier\DSJ\Frank behind a formidable foursome of Durant\Kyrie\Barrett\Robinson.
Seriously? I’m not even sure that can be considered depth if that players aren’t good or ready to contribute in the playoffs.
You can also build depth over the next couple seasons. You’d have 3 all nba players. You can use exceptions, veteran mins, young guys like
Dotson to fill out the team and then have next offseason to really build up the depth.
I’m probably most intrigued by getting Davis and Durant and then using the remaining cap space on multiple players instead of 1 max. But I’m not complaining if Irving/Kemba or Butler are my 3rd option.
Barrett was unanimously regarded as the top prospect in this class, and the reason to tank, like 9 months ago. He went out and averaged basically 23-7-4 and somehow that was a disappointment?
compared Barrett to Jalen Rose. If that's the case you shop the pick.
That is a ridiculous comparison. The only thing they have in common is that they are left handed wing players. I think a realistic outcome for Barrett is Demar Derozan, and he has the upside to be more if his shooting improves.
Barrett was unanimously regarded as the top prospect in this class, and the reason to tank, like 9 months ago. He went out and averaged basically 23-7-4 and somehow that was a disappointment? The Knicks should be thrilled to be is position to get him.
I think even Derozan is a stretch comparison. I'd probably go with Wiggins myself.
Plus the Knicks can easily sweeten the deal I proposed, the Lakers can't.
The Knicks have to sweeten that deal just to get the salaries to match.
Quote:
In comment 14444593 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
... Jayson Tatum.
The C's also have the motivation of needing to trade for A.D. in order to convince Kyrie to stay.
shine has come off of jayson tatum, and you think the pelicans are trading davis for just tatum?
That's not what I said... I said Tatum is the single best trade asset... that's not the same thing as Tatum for A.D. straight up.
The C's have a multiple picks and guys like Smart, Williams, possibly Brown (if that's what it takes) to package around Tatum.
draft picks the celtics have are mediocre at best...
why is robert williams an asset?
c
Quote:
You have blood clots in there, LaVar Ball, a 4th pick that holds much less value than #3.
Plus the Knicks can easily sweeten the deal I proposed, the Lakers can't.
The Knicks have to sweeten that deal just to get the salaries to match.
knicks do not have to match salaries jist have to get to 21 million
...shine has come off of jayson tatum...[/quote]
Who are you kidding? If Jayson Tatum was on the Knicks, you'd think he was awesomesauce.
Quote:
In comment 14444607 Chris684 said:
Quote:
You have blood clots in there, LaVar Ball, a 4th pick that holds much less value than #3.
Plus the Knicks can easily sweeten the deal I proposed, the Lakers can't.
The Knicks have to sweeten that deal just to get the salaries to match.
knicks do not have to match salaries jist have to get to 21 million
Yes, and Robinson and Barrett alone isn't even close.
Quote:
In comment 14444608 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14444607 Chris684 said:
Quote:
You have blood clots in there, LaVar Ball, a 4th pick that holds much less value than #3.
Plus the Knicks can easily sweeten the deal I proposed, the Lakers can't.
The Knicks have to sweeten that deal just to get the salaries to match.
knicks do not have to match salaries jist have to get to 21 million
Yes, and Robinson and Barrett alone isn't even close.
no would have to be barrett, robinson, knox,frank, then you can add a couple of the non gauaranteed guys they signed to fill it out
And the Knicks can absolutely match or beat any Lakers or Celtics offer. That’s not being biased, that’s simply the truth. And I’m higher on the Lakers assets than most people. But Ingram’s health is way too risky.
Do whatever it takes to pair Durant and Davis with another max or a couple vet free agents. Depth and picks are overrated with good teams. You have the chance to have 2 top 5 players in their prime along with an all nba guard. You do that and be a contender for the next 5 years...
Who knows what package the Pelicans like best but that kid and his circus would be poison to me as a GM.
Quote:
... Jayson Tatum.
The C's also have the motivation of needing to trade for A.D. in order to convince Kyrie to stay.
He might be, but if you look at Barret's numbers they're awfully similar to what Tatum put up and Barret would offer more years of team control to NO.
Also, your notion of getting AD and then signing Kyrie is a huge gamble on Boston's part. I'm not saying it wont happen but that's still a huge risk and Kyrie hasn't been a model of consistency where you may feel great taking that chance.
Kyrie and A.D. are friends... it's a gamble you have to take, IMO.
let's say Griffin does in fact value Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball more then whatever the 3 best Knicks young players are - the Knicks can trump #4 with #3, and add in more future picks to close the gap. And, as already stated, the Knicks young players come without injury concerns and offer more years of team control.
I think whatever gap their may be in talent between the players (if there even is one in the eyes of Griffin), is closed by all of that.
frank is not an asset (i would like him on a good team but has no value)--- DSJ is not an asset to the pelicans
Lakers have Kuzma, Ball, Ingram (if healthy), and the 4 pick (Hunter?)-- Hart is like a better non asset than frank- but not really an asset.
Celtics have tatum and brown who i think actually the Celtics plight has helped them- but other than that- just this years mid round picks.
so if you are the pelicans--- you have the option of
Holliday
Barrett
Knox
Zion
Robinson
Holliday
Ball
Kuzma
hunter
Zion
Holliday
Brown
tatum
Zion
i think that lays it out a bit better with less generic comments
And the Knicks can absolutely match or beat any Lakers or Celtics offer. That’s not being biased, that’s simply the truth. And I’m higher on the Lakers assets than most people. But Ingram’s health is way too risky.
Do whatever it takes to pair Durant and Davis with another max or a couple vet free agents. Depth and picks are overrated with good teams. You have the chance to have 2 top 5 players in their prime along with an all nba guard. You do that and be a contender for the next 5 years...
He's a complete player with no weakness, when healthy.
why is robert williams an asset?
c
Tatum makes the deal go, obviously. He is the centerpiece. The surrounding parts are good enough to pair with Tatum if we're talking a one year rental... and we are.
The Knicks might have slightly better side change... but if we're being objective: side change isn't the deciding factor at decision time. It's the main course.
Quote:
For me, Ingram healthy, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick, and a future #1 is a better deal. I don't see how yours is clear cut better.
let's say Griffin does in fact value Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball more then whatever the 3 best Knicks young players are - the Knicks can trump #4 with #3, and add in more future picks to close the gap. And, as already stated, the Knicks young players come without injury concerns and offer more years of team control.
I think whatever gap their may be in talent between the players (if there even is one in the eyes of Griffin), is closed by all of that.
Good post, a more compelling argument for me.
Quote:
In comment 14444593 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
... Jayson Tatum.
The C's also have the motivation of needing to trade for A.D. in order to convince Kyrie to stay.
He might be, but if you look at Barret's numbers they're awfully similar to what Tatum put up and Barret would offer more years of team control to NO.
Also, your notion of getting AD and then signing Kyrie is a huge gamble on Boston's part. I'm not saying it wont happen but that's still a huge risk and Kyrie hasn't been a model of consistency where you may feel great taking that chance.
Kyrie and A.D. are friends... it's a gamble you have to take, IMO.
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
Quote:
draft picks the celtics have are mediocre at best...
why is robert williams an asset?
c
Tatum makes the deal go, obviously. He is the centerpiece. The surrounding parts are good enough to pair with Tatum if we're talking a one year rental... and we are.
The Knicks might have slightly better side change... but if we're being objective: side change isn't the deciding factor at decision time. It's the main course.
what are these surrounding parts thr celtics have? stop mentioning picks, they are mediocre
Because they are 2 young prospects? They also play different positions and have much different games....
they count, but its not like these are NFL first rounders.
If you are to believe just how adamant AD was against the Celts combined with the luster coming off some of their tradeable assets I think Boston is a lower possibility at this point.
Lakers had a falling out with the Pels and it sure didnt seem like they were too happy with them.
Doesnt mean both are entirely out of it but I think us getting the #3 and having all our FRP + 2 Dal FRPs the next few years puts us squarely in the conversation.
#3, Knox, DSJ, Frank, (Mitch?) + Dal 2021 FRP + 2020 NYK FRP
That is a very strong offer. They probably like Barrett quite a bit as they apparently made it clear they would be interested if we landed a top 3 pick. Now to reunite him with Zion is another potential bonus. Barrett arguably could be the highest rated prospect they'd get back in any deal depending on what they think of Tatum, Brown, Kuzma, Ingram or Ball. But honestly none of those guys really lit it up last year. The Lakers getting 4 didn't help but Pels have already made it sound like they also believe their is a sizeable drop from 3 to 4 so....
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
you don't worry about "fit" with 20-year-olds.
they count, but its not like these are NFL first rounders.
The Dallas 21 pick combined with this years #3 is a very strong start.
Quote:
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
Choice 1 has seemingly been on the table all year and Kyrie has been luke warm to jump at that option and luke warm is putting it nicely.
Its easy to shit on the die-hard knicks fans but this isnt as cut and dry as it usually is.
Personally, I prefer to keep all the #1 picks and have better team depth with Knox\Jordan\Trier\DSJ\Frank behind a formidable foursome of Durant\Kyrie\Barrett\Robinson.
they count, but its not like these are NFL first rounders.
oicks wouldnt be coming from the knicks
Dan you haven't chimed in on these offers.
What's your offer for AD?
To repeat myself (because apparently I have to):
Marcus Smart. Robert Williams. Jaylen Brown (if that's what it takes).
Multiple picks in this year's draft that I have no problem admitting are mediocre... (but they are fine for some throw in material, and of greater value to a rebuilding team)
The future Memphis pick, as well.
Quote:
And potentially watch Kyrie go with his other friend KD and then have Davis walk out the door the year after? Not sure the friend argument is as compelling as you make it.
If Kyrie's choice is between:
1.) playing for a first class organization with my boy A.D.
or
2.) playing for a dumpster fire organization with my boy K.D. (assuming the Knicks can even lure K.D.)
I think it's a reasonable bet. That aside: nothing is without risk... joining the Knicks is a risky proposition for any free agent, as well.
how are the knicks a dumpster fire? and why would they be a dumpster fire if they have kd?
Quote:
would want BOTH Barrett AND Knox?
you don't worry about "fit" with 20-year-olds.
Landing a 30 year old KD instantly changes strategy to win now mode. Barrett and Knox are very likely shopped.
Quote:
but how much value are the picks from a team that has durant kyrie and AD?
they count, but its not like these are NFL first rounders.
oicks wouldnt be coming from the knicks
yeah was a brain dead comment on my side
I don't follow you at all.
The C's couldn't trade for A.D. at the trade deadline... not without shipping away Kyrie. They were prevented by some fine-print in the last collective bargaining agreement.
That is a ridiculous comparison. The only thing they have in common is that they are left handed wing players. I think a realistic outcome for Barrett is Demar Derozan, and he has the upside to be more if his shooting improves.
Barrett was unanimously regarded as the top prospect in this class, and the reason to tank, like 9 months ago. He went out and averaged basically 23-7-4 and somehow that was a disappointment? The Knicks should be thrilled to be is position to get him.
some teams arent as sold on Morant as the clear number 2 as people think- for sure-
and if a few guys work out well and show a jumper- it could be interesting after Zion
Quote:
what are these surrounding parts the celtics have? stop mentioning picks, they are mediocre
To repeat myself (because apparently I have to):
Marcus Smart. Robert Williams. Jaylen Brown (if that's what it takes).
Smart - role player
Williams - homeless man's Mitch
Brown - likely goes from asset to overpaid in 12 months due to contract status.
What else you got?
Huh? That's a terrible comparison
Quote:
would want BOTH Barrett AND Knox?
Because they are 2 young prospects? They also play different positions and have much different games....
Do they? They're both volume scorers who aren't particularly good shooters.
Personally, I prefer to keep all the #1 picks and have better team depth with Knox\Jordan\Trier\DSJ\Frank behind a formidable foursome of Durant\Kyrie\Barrett\Robinson.
Seriously? I’m not even sure that can be considered depth if that players aren’t good or ready to contribute in the playoffs.
You can also build depth over the next couple seasons. You’d have 3 all nba players. You can use exceptions, veteran mins, young guys like
Dotson to fill out the team and then have next offseason to really build up the depth.
I’m probably most intrigued by getting Davis and Durant and then using the remaining cap space on multiple players instead of 1 max. But I’m not complaining if Irving/Kemba or Butler are my 3rd option.
Because he can't shoot.
Quote:
compared Barrett to Jalen Rose. If that's the case you shop the pick.
That is a ridiculous comparison. The only thing they have in common is that they are left handed wing players. I think a realistic outcome for Barrett is Demar Derozan, and he has the upside to be more if his shooting improves.
Barrett was unanimously regarded as the top prospect in this class, and the reason to tank, like 9 months ago. He went out and averaged basically 23-7-4 and somehow that was a disappointment? The Knicks should be thrilled to be is position to get him.
I think even Derozan is a stretch comparison. I'd probably go with Wiggins myself.