in your decision, but if the Pelicans take this to the edge and wait until the season, let's see how much AD is willing to throw away 90 million and wait to become a free agent. With getting Zion, the Pelicans can now wait a long time to convince AD to stay with Zion, a player that compliments him perfectly.
Or they can go young and get a ton of building blocks to build around him in a trade.
Why do it now and guess about Barrett's potential or anyone else for that matter when you can wait until the trade deadline, work on AD to convince him to stay and then bail if you can't with more information about these young players actually doing it in NBA games instead of projections. If I was NO I definitely would not trade him before Christmas.
- Again I think the Knicks could put together a package of picks and players that beats everyone. A rebuilding team like NOLA wants picks and cost controlled young players. The Knicks can put together the best mix of this. With that said, people are overrating Robinson here.
- The Lakers players are being undervalued here. They have flaws but Ball and Kuzma can play. But I could care less what the LA beat is saying, the Lakers aren’t getting Davis without trading Ingram. And trading for Ingram is a massive risk and you need to make a huge financial decision on him next season. Does New Orleans want that? And the difference between the 4th and 3rd pick is big.
Who knows if Griffin will want to do LeBron a solid? Better yet, Griffin may not want to trade AD to another Western Conference team and may take less ala Gettleman taking less to trade OBJ to an AFC team instead of the 49ers.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
They might consider Barrett or Morant at #3 as the best overall asset in either package. And Mitch could make a case with the group they would have in NO to be the second most valuable. Lastly the Dal FRP has the highest chance of being a quality pick. Its much closer than you make it to be.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
On Frank that he doesn't offer much more than D and backup PG potential. He has had a few years to show something and hasn't flashed much. Knox on the other hand only had one year and is Super young. And was rookie of the month in like December before he hit the rookie wall. DSJ is still young himself and dynamic. Holes in his game for sure but he has value.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
They might consider Barrett or Morant at #3 as the best overall asset in either package. And Mitch could make a case with the group they would have in NO to be the second most valuable. Lastly the Dal FRP has the highest chance of being a quality pick. Its much closer than you make it to be.
That is my point... the only real thing the Knicks have to offer is Barrett and two future Dallas #1. Knox and Barrett no way they want that. If Morant fell to 3 honestly that would be the best thing for the Knicks, but I don't think that will happen because then maybe you can throw in Knox.
just call 18 and 19 year olds garbage. I guess theres nothing called improvement or growth. I get Frank might be a lost cause because he hasn't shown anything offensively in two years. But Knox has definitely flashed.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Hooray for Lakers pom pom waving!
How is showing stats and bringing reality to the conversation pom pom waving.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
What a dumb post. This was Ingram's third season in the league. He didn't even shoot 30% from 3 as a rookie... In fact, Knox shot better from 3 than Ingram did this year. Knox also isn't a shooting guard so you got that wrong. Kuzma is going to be 24 in July. Comparing him to a bunch of 19-20 year olds isn't apples to apples. Ball stinks. Also, the Lakers can't add the same future picks of their own. The Knicks own 2 first round picks that are not their own which also gives them flexibility in trading their own picks because a team can't trade their only first rounder in consecutive years so that's another stupid comment.
With what the Knicks could give them and what the Lakers could give them. I think edge goes to the Knicks if they want highest developmental upside. Barrett and Robinson are the 2 best developmental chips combined with a future Dal FRP.
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Where is the "major projection" needed on Mitchell Robinson? Missed an entire year of development and put up 7 and 6 with 2.4 blocks in only 21 minutes per game while shooting 69% from the field, his PER was 22.0, .217 WS/48. In fact, what you stated is the exact opposite of true. There is ZERO projection needed to say Robinson at worst looks like a very solid NBA big. He'd have to suffer a major injury to not be a key component of a good NBA teams rotation. Where is this necessary "major projection"? Maybe if you need him to become a superstar. He outplayed year 2 Clint Capela and matched year 2 Rudy Gobert (Gobert was 22, Mitch 20)
I realize that some people have an incredibly hard time coming to terms with the fact that who a player is at 18-19 isn't who that player will be at 22.
Ingram's blood clot shouldnt be ignored. And he only has a year left on his contract, I believe. Would NOL wan't to pay up for him after it expires? Lack of team control for a team that may want to have mutliple years of cost control is important.
Also, Kuzma supposedly stated he would not extend in a small market. If that's correct, that would further diminish the attractiveness of a Lakers offer to the Pels as he is the best asset the Lakers have.
So I think the Knicks have the best theoretical package to offer, especially if they are willing to include Mitch. Barrett and Mitchell could be the top developmental assets in either for what their vision would be post-AD and unto Zion. Add in Dal FRP which would likely be highest of all future FRPs and there you go.
Exactly. Lakers have the proven talent with a bigger sample size, that's worth more to me than the unproven youth. Kuzma is only 24, the others even younger than him. If NO prefers going even younger and most cost-controlled, so be it.
The entire vision of the team changes to full win now mode if a 30 yo KD comes in. You do that with for the most part with vet talent not developing youth.
Meanwhile NOLAs vision changes to acquiring top picks and best developmental talent the moment AD leaves.
18 and will be for another month, he played his whole freshmen year at 18 and was the second best player on one of the best teams in the country. Why have we decided he is a finished product. He cant improve his handle? His shot will never get better?
I know everyone all of a sudden decided this was a two player draft but lets not forget that Ja is a sophomore. His shooting %'s from his freshmen year were pretty close to RJ's. And again he played in the gauntlet that is the Ohio Valley conference. Not trying to trash him it just seems like everyone thinks RJ is some sort of bum. We get it you wanted Zion (or you are a UVA fan, LOL)
RE: Can somebody who actually knows college hoops Â
Please sell me on RJ Barrett. From the limited I saw, he’s a tweener with an awkward inconsistent shot and seems to lack top athletic ability. I may be totally wrong and I’m not trying to knock the kid, I just don’t know whether he deserves the hype as the third guy in a “3 player draft”.
RJ is perfectly suited for the NBA. All the NBA is now are "tweeners" who score. And RJ succeeds at that like no other. He outscored Zion, and his productivity was the same whether Zion was on the court or not. He's his own man and is better suited for today's NBA than Zion IMO.
is a pretty good asset - I'd like the Knicks to explore all trade opportunities with it (as I'm sure they will), not just AD. You have to wonder if Barrett is the best fit next to KD/Kyrie, if that scenario comes to fruition. Shooting, rebounding and defensive versatility is needed to surround two elite scorers.
Mitchell Robinson 20 years old 21 minutes per .217 WS/48, 22.0 PER
Gobert year 2 (age 22) 26 minutes per .206 WS/48, 21.6 PER
Capela year 2 (age 21) 19 minutes .144 WS/48, per 18.3 PER
Steven Adams year 2 (age 21) 25 minutes per game .111 WS/48 14.1 PER
Yep, I think Capela is a great comp for Robinson and I think Mitch could be even better than Capela.
The thing about Robinson is that, like Capela, he's comfortable at switching on the perimeter and holding his own. And he obviously protects the rim very well.
Harden makes Capela look better than he is, but Capela is still a really nice piece to have on your team. Robinson could be that and maybe more. Get him a quality ball-handler to Pick-N-Roll with him, and he'll be a valuable player.
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
if you are going to debate this, kevin knox is not a 2, he is a 3 /4
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
Ball getting to the FT line more would be a negative for the Lakers...
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
Knox is not a 2. Knicks had a 5 shooting guards last year and he wasn't one of them, lol. And of course, Knox is 4 years younger than Kuzma and two years younger than Ingram. With all of this young offensive talent and 50+ games from the second best player of all time, I'm starting to wonder why the Lakers were such garbage on offense last year....
Zach Lowe says the Lakers have a better package. Â
• It's strange to declare the Knicks slight "losers" for landing at No. 3 and the Lakers "winners" for rising from No. 11 to No. 4, but that assessment is correct. For all their flaws -- and perhaps too much has been made of those flaws considering the players' age -- the Lakers' young players have more combined trade value than Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr. and Mitchell Robinson. (Does Robinson have the most trade value of those four guys? He might. He had the best 2018-19 season among them.)
The No. 3 pick in this draft plus all of those guys does not carry the same appeal as the No. 4 pick plus Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma. I'm not sure the two Dallas future first-round picks the Knicks received in the Kristaps Porzingis deal (plus the Knicks youngsters being further from their paydays) tilt the equation in their favor; the Lakers can add their own first-round picks into any Davis package. If the Davis sweepstakes still happens, the Lakers probably come out of the lottery ahead of Knicks.
Some in the league wonder if the Pelicans' ownership and the New Orleans Saints officials who once had so much influence might still hold some grudge against the Lakers. Maybe. The door is slightly ajar for a surprise Davis suitor beyond the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics. But Gayle Benson has empowered Griffin, and the bet here is that Griffin will push for the best deal -- if a deal happens -- without much regard to the destination.
Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
Ball getting to the FT line more would be a negative for the Lakers...
him not playing at all would be a positive. Even with all of those rebounds, assists, and steals - he's still at a below average PER. And he's always hurt.
RE: RE: RE: While I think Barrett will be a better pro Â
getting an 18 year old kid no matter the hype is not keep anthony davis, he is going to stay there for another 5 years waiting for zion to develop?
5 years? More like 5 months. Zion will more likely be 1st team all NBA in 4 years than still be developing.
Exactly. I said on a thread a few months ago Zion was the most hyped prospect to come out since Lebron and I got laughed at. Name another player in the last 15 years who was more of a sure-thing and more hyped than Zion. I don't even think the talk around Durant was this buzzy when he came out.
The only way The Knicks should have considered keeping the pick... Â
...was if it was the #1 and Zion. Now that ship has sailed and it's all aboard the Durant and AD train plus whatever other piece they can land in free agency.
Quote:
in your decision, but if the Pelicans take this to the edge and wait until the season, let's see how much AD is willing to throw away 90 million and wait to become a free agent. With getting Zion, the Pelicans can now wait a long time to convince AD to stay with Zion, a player that compliments him perfectly.
Or they can go young and get a ton of building blocks to build around him in a trade.
Why do it now and guess about Barrett's potential or anyone else for that matter when you can wait until the trade deadline, work on AD to convince him to stay and then bail if you can't with more information about these young players actually doing it in NBA games instead of projections. If I was NO I definitely would not trade him before Christmas.
he is a volume shooter, 30.8 percent from three and 66.5 from the free throw line. He is not that efficient or what you would think from a star.
- The Lakers players are being undervalued here. They have flaws but Ball and Kuzma can play. But I could care less what the LA beat is saying, the Lakers aren’t getting Davis without trading Ingram. And trading for Ingram is a massive risk and you need to make a huge financial decision on him next season. Does New Orleans want that? And the difference between the 4th and 3rd pick is big.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
They might consider Barrett or Morant at #3 as the best overall asset in either package. And Mitch could make a case with the group they would have in NO to be the second most valuable. Lastly the Dal FRP has the highest chance of being a quality pick. Its much closer than you make it to be.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Hooray for Lakers pom pom waving!
Quote:
No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
They might consider Barrett or Morant at #3 as the best overall asset in either package. And Mitch could make a case with the group they would have in NO to be the second most valuable. Lastly the Dal FRP has the highest chance of being a quality pick. Its much closer than you make it to be.
That is my point... the only real thing the Knicks have to offer is Barrett and two future Dallas #1. Knox and Barrett no way they want that. If Morant fell to 3 honestly that would be the best thing for the Knicks, but I don't think that will happen because then maybe you can throw in Knox.
and much different picking 4th than 3rd..
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No one values Knox as some legit player shooting a pathetic .370 with not very good defense... You can't have a shooting guard who can't shoot or defend? Plus you think they would want Knox and Barrett? They don't fit together. Frank is garbage. Robinson is a lot of projection. There is a lot of projection and over valuing on the Knicks fans here.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Hooray for Lakers pom pom waving!
How is showing stats and bringing reality to the conversation pom pom waving.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
What a dumb post. This was Ingram's third season in the league. He didn't even shoot 30% from 3 as a rookie... In fact, Knox shot better from 3 than Ingram did this year. Knox also isn't a shooting guard so you got that wrong. Kuzma is going to be 24 in July. Comparing him to a bunch of 19-20 year olds isn't apples to apples. Ball stinks. Also, the Lakers can't add the same future picks of their own. The Knicks own 2 first round picks that are not their own which also gives them flexibility in trading their own picks because a team can't trade their only first rounder in consecutive years so that's another stupid comment.
Ingram scored 18.3 per game shooting .497 and played 1-4 last year so his versatility is huge. Kuzma scored 18.7 per game shooting .456 and playing 3 to stretch 5 last year. They are much much better players than what the Knicks have to offer and it isn't close. For example the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma or Ingram for Knox, Robinson, and Franks. As for Ball who struggles shooting like Knox at least he can pass, rebound, and steal... Oh and still shot better than Knox.
The only assets the Knicks have is Barrett, maybe Robinson as a throw in, and the Dallas picks. If they got KD, KI, and AD their picks are worthless.
Think of it this way... who would you rather have Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, #4 pick or Knox, Frank, Robinson, #3, and future Dallas #1?
Now before I get all the Knicks fans saying oh yeah the Knicks... Know that Knox (can't shoot or defend), Frank (garbage), and Robinson (major Projection) aren't as good as you seem to think. The only thing you can say is Ingram has blood issues that need to be checked out. Don't try and add future Knicks picks because the Lakers can add the same future picks of their own.
Where is the "major projection" needed on Mitchell Robinson? Missed an entire year of development and put up 7 and 6 with 2.4 blocks in only 21 minutes per game while shooting 69% from the field, his PER was 22.0, .217 WS/48. In fact, what you stated is the exact opposite of true. There is ZERO projection needed to say Robinson at worst looks like a very solid NBA big. He'd have to suffer a major injury to not be a key component of a good NBA teams rotation. Where is this necessary "major projection"? Maybe if you need him to become a superstar. He outplayed year 2 Clint Capela and matched year 2 Rudy Gobert (Gobert was 22, Mitch 20)
Also, Kuzma supposedly stated he would not extend in a small market. If that's correct, that would further diminish the attractiveness of a Lakers offer to the Pels as he is the best asset the Lakers have.
So I think the Knicks have the best theoretical package to offer, especially if they are willing to include Mitch. Barrett and Mitchell could be the top developmental assets in either for what their vision would be post-AD and unto Zion. Add in Dal FRP which would likely be highest of all future FRPs and there you go.
Gobert year 2 (age 22) 26 minutes per .206 WS/48, 21.6 PER
Capela year 2 (age 21) 19 minutes .144 WS/48, per 18.3 PER
Steven Adams year 2 (age 21) 25 minutes per game .111 WS/48 14.1 PER
His evolution from skinny high school center to the most mature, best two way player in this draft is terrific.
While Ja must be great, I haven't seen him as much.
But IMO, Barrett especially and also Robinson are prefectly suited for long term success in the NBA. They have a great choice to make
I think three is the best spot for value in this draft
Meanwhile NOLAs vision changes to acquiring top picks and best developmental talent the moment AD leaves.
I know everyone all of a sudden decided this was a two player draft but lets not forget that Ja is a sophomore. His shooting %'s from his freshmen year were pretty close to RJ's. And again he played in the gauntlet that is the Ohio Valley conference. Not trying to trash him it just seems like everyone thinks RJ is some sort of bum. We get it you wanted Zion (or you are a UVA fan, LOL)
RJ is perfectly suited for the NBA. All the NBA is now are "tweeners" who score. And RJ succeeds at that like no other. He outscored Zion, and his productivity was the same whether Zion was on the court or not. He's his own man and is better suited for today's NBA than Zion IMO.
how is lonzo ball proven talent?
how is lonzo ball proven talent?
I wouldn't trade Lonzo Ball for Knox... Why Ball can't shoot also he can at least rebound, pass, and steal at a high level.
Gobert year 2 (age 22) 26 minutes per .206 WS/48, 21.6 PER
Capela year 2 (age 21) 19 minutes .144 WS/48, per 18.3 PER
Steven Adams year 2 (age 21) 25 minutes per game .111 WS/48 14.1 PER
Yep, I think Capela is a great comp for Robinson and I think Mitch could be even better than Capela.
The thing about Robinson is that, like Capela, he's comfortable at switching on the perimeter and holding his own. And he obviously protects the rim very well.
Harden makes Capela look better than he is, but Capela is still a really nice piece to have on your team. Robinson could be that and maybe more. Get him a quality ball-handler to Pick-N-Roll with him, and he'll be a valuable player.
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is kuzma and ingram and he is a huge question mark..
how is lonzo ball proven talent?
I wouldn't trade Lonzo Ball for Knox... Why Ball can't shoot also he can at least rebound, pass, and steal at a high level.
if only it was still 1985 and you could actually win with guys like that.
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He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
lol
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Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
what did they shoot their rookie years?
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Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
if you are going to debate this, kevin knox is not a 2, he is a 3 /4
Ball getting to the FT line more would be a negative for the Lakers...
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Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
He shot .370 overall... while both Ingram and Kuzma shot in .498 and .454 respectively. They are much better players. Hell even Ball shot .404 ... Kuzma is a 4 shooting 30% much better than a 2 shooting 34%
Knox is not a 2. Knicks had a 5 shooting guards last year and he wasn't one of them, lol. And of course, Knox is 4 years younger than Kuzma and two years younger than Ingram. With all of this young offensive talent and 50+ games from the second best player of all time, I'm starting to wonder why the Lakers were such garbage on offense last year....
The No. 3 pick in this draft plus all of those guys does not carry the same appeal as the No. 4 pick plus Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and Kyle Kuzma. I'm not sure the two Dallas future first-round picks the Knicks received in the Kristaps Porzingis deal (plus the Knicks youngsters being further from their paydays) tilt the equation in their favor; the Lakers can add their own first-round picks into any Davis package. If the Davis sweepstakes still happens, the Lakers probably come out of the lottery ahead of Knicks.
Some in the league wonder if the Pelicans' ownership and the New Orleans Saints officials who once had so much influence might still hold some grudge against the Lakers. Maybe. The door is slightly ajar for a surprise Davis suitor beyond the Lakers, Knicks and Celtics. But Gayle Benson has empowered Griffin, and the bet here is that Griffin will push for the best deal -- if a deal happens -- without much regard to the destination.
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Knox at 19 years old with horrific PG play and very few open looks managed to shoot 34% from three point range while Kuzma was 30%, Ingram was 33%, and Ball was 33%. And he managed to get to the line the same as Kuzma at 4 years younger...and obviously a lot more than Ball. I mean, Ball attempted a whopping 48 free throws ALL SEASON. But sure, he's "proven talent". Would it shock anyone if Ball's not even in the league in 5 years?
Ball getting to the FT line more would be a negative for the Lakers...
him not playing at all would be a positive. Even with all of those rebounds, assists, and steals - he's still at a below average PER. And he's always hurt.
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getting an 18 year old kid no matter the hype is not keep anthony davis, he is going to stay there for another 5 years waiting for zion to develop?
5 years? More like 5 months. Zion will more likely be 1st team all NBA in 4 years than still be developing.
Exactly. I said on a thread a few months ago Zion was the most hyped prospect to come out since Lebron and I got laughed at. Name another player in the last 15 years who was more of a sure-thing and more hyped than Zion. I don't even think the talk around Durant was this buzzy when he came out.
Very good. I think sometimes...one attribute i.e. the kid being lefty, steers comps. Derozan is a more sensible comp than Jalen Rose.
He is forgetting that this went from a two-player draft to a three player draft once the Knicks got the third pick, of course.
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is a smart dude.
He is forgetting that this went from a two-player draft to a three player draft once the Knicks got the third pick, of course.
Well played.