this needs to be clear. Ingram's blood clot is not the same thing as Chris Bosh. It was a structure type thing not something in his blood that is causing it. It isn't an issue you seem to think it is. So 21 year Ingram is the best player involved in any trade. Yes over Barrett also.
Did you even listen to that... The guy next to him was like who do the Knicks have... he names some players and he buzzes them out. The only thing they have is both Dallas #1 to go with #3. Everything else is garbage that people don't want.
You thinking Knox and Barrett are similar style players and comparing Robinson to Javale McGee tells me everything I need to know.
Have you watched a lot of Robinson? How you watched a lot of the Lakers? Kuzma is 24 years old- 5/6 years older than the Knicks young guys and Barrett. Ball can’t finish at the rim at all and doesn’t shoot it well. Is he even a NBA point guard? Not to mention his injury history. And Ingram is a good young prospect. But it’s a massive risk trading for him with that health issue.
Most are ignoring the biggest influences: AD's wishes & willingness to sign an extension, NO's view (of LA / NY / BOS's and #3 & #4 pick prospects, East vs West Conf). And what the market is for an MVP caliber player, but proven malcontent who's a rental on trade day. We can debate which team's assets are better yet miss that these are very similar pkgs in total value - all relative unknowns for youth, injury concerns, or poor play to this point
So IMO the main pieces are 3 of the following 5: Mitch, #3 pick, future 1sts. Then add any combo of rostered players. I can stomach losing Mitch if it's him, the current & a future 1sts and 1-3 of Knox, Dot, DSJ, Trier etc. And maybe agree to 1 more. Either way it seems a decent starting point from what we know atm (BOS not likely due to AD, LAL maybe not due to NO)
But IMO that keeps the future nicely in tact no matter what happens now to 3-4 years down the line in terms of the FAs or rings. That said in spite of my preference, it's a great 'worst case' even if NYK does trade too much
Most are ignoring the biggest influences: AD's wishes & willingness to sign an extension, NO's view (of LA / NY / BOS's and #3 & #4 pick prospects, East vs West Conf). And what the market is for an MVP caliber player, but proven malcontent who's a rental on trade day. We can debate which team's assets are better yet miss that these are very similar pkgs in total value - all relative unknowns for youth, injury concerns, or poor play to this point
So IMO the main pieces are 3 of the following 5: Mitch, #3 pick, future 1sts. Then add any combo of rostered players. I can stomach losing Mitch if it's him, the current & a future 1sts and 1-3 of Knox, Dot, DSJ, Trier etc. And maybe agree to 1 more. Either way it seems a decent starting point from what we know atm (BOS not likely due to AD, LAL maybe not due to NO)
But IMO that keeps the future nicely in tact no matter what happens now to 3-4 years down the line in terms of the FAs or rings. That said in spite of my preference, it's a great 'worst case' even if NYK does trade too much
Umm, the worst case is we sign 2 shitty guys (not KD or Kyrie) to max deals and languish as the 4th-5th best team in the East for 5 years.
In comment 14445635 ChaChing said:
Quote:
we're not discussing which FAs. So while I agree and have said as much (please no Butler), that's not relevant to the thread topic
I see what you mean, my b
No worries. Given NYK history, you're right to brace for the worst. I'm hopeful this time but still remember how this shit usually goes
July 18, 2018: Traded by the San Antonio Spurs with Danny Green and cash to the Toronto Raptors for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a 2019 1st round draft pick. (2019 1st-rd pick is top-20 protected.) $5MM
We have no DeRozan, which is what makes this seem like an impossible trade.
FWIW a writeup on potential trades for BOS, LAL, TOR & 2 for NYK Â
New Orleans Pelicans Receive: Damyean Dotson, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr., No. 3 pick (drafted by Knicks), 2020 first-round pick, 2021 first-round pick (via Dallas)
The 2nd one if I have this right, keeps all our original picks from 2021 on. Doesn't mortgage the future even if I'd prefer to keep an xtra 1st. Tho I think I prefer the former, this could work too. It also keeps 1 of Dot or DSJ - neither any kind of deal breaker, but given the option...
Quote:
New York Knicks Receive: Anthony Davis
New Orleans Pelicans Receive: Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith Jr., No. 3 pick (drafted by Knicks), 2020 first-round pick (top-two protection), 2020 second-round pick (via Charlotte), 2021 first-round pick (via Dallas), 2023 first-round pick (top-10 protection, via Dallas)
Note neither gives up Mitch. We don't know if NO goes for it, but based on what we're hearing, NYK seems the best team match if AD said no to BOS & NO no to LAL, so it might be in right area. And if it has legs NYK must pursue for that price (basically if we keep Mitch and/or have all 1sts from 2021 fwd it's a must for an MVP caliber player)
I hope knicks don't give up picks and the young players for one year of AD. Keep the picks, keep the kids, sign a free agent or two. Maybe even AD when his contract runs out.
why people look at this situation and use it to take some sort of shot at the Knicks. We have the 3rd pick and are gonna get RJ Barrett. It could be A LOT worse.
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
why people look at this situation and use it to take some sort of shot at the Knicks. We have the 3rd pick and are gonna get RJ Barrett. It could be A LOT worse.
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
Agree
Another thing to remember about adding the 2 FA's and then trading Â
for AD is that the trade for AD has to come last. Obviously the 3rd pick is the centerpiece so we'd have to wait till late July to officially complete the deal. If you want to surround the big 3 with vet ring chasers they'll mostly be gone by then. What FA is waiting around 3 or 4 weeks into free agency to sign?The key with the Boston/Miami situations is that they were able to pull it all together by the start of free agency. The more I think about it signing the big 2 and keeping the rest together make way more sense.
why people look at this situation and use it to take some sort of shot at the Knicks. We have the 3rd pick and are gonna get RJ Barrett. It could be A LOT worse.
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
Not getting a pick lower than 3 is a total win. They beat the odds. Every year people claim the draft only has two players, and then we end up surprised when the rookie of the year isn't the #1 or #2 pick.
No it isn't. Morant is a transcendant player. Barrett isn't.
Barrett depending on the team you ask is also considered very highly. Blue chip level in fact. Not necessarily transcendental or generational but superstar upside.
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he
has a change of heart about Boston
Pick #3 is arguably the top asset any team in the running for AD can offer. Griffin will want the highest upside player to pair with Zion. Barrett carries that upside more than Tatum Brown Kuzma Ball or a injury clouded Ingram. Us getting pick 3 vs 4 or 5 was huge in terms of making this deal.
because they can be dominant in the short term and AD would last beyond KD's prime so if Perry knows how to retool on the fly they can be very good for as long as AD is here.
have that type of elite talent. As someone alluded to earlier (in this thread or the other one), Kyrie/KD/AD would be among the best players to ever put on a Knicks uniform. Since the championship years, I count three guys who were HOF-level players in their primes with the Knicks - Ewing, Bernard King, and Melo. Hopefully we double that number over the next two months.
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
RE: I can't even imagine a world where the Knicks Â
have that type of elite talent. As someone alluded to earlier (in this thread or the other one), Kyrie/KD/AD would be among the best players to ever put on a Knicks uniform. Since the championship years, I count three guys who were HOF-level players in their primes with the Knicks - Ewing, Bernard King, and Melo. Hopefully we double that number over the next two months.
It would be pretty special to have all 3 of those guys courtesy of KP no less.
Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make Â
Knox DSJ and Robinson have not scraped the surface. In another year maybe AD is a FA and you can reel him in without emptying the team
Absolutely amazing with the Knicks history fans would disagree with this.
availability heuristic. AD is not Eddy Curry, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury or Carmelo Anthony. Melo meanwhile was never the issue, the issue was deciding to pickup Billups' option and then amnesty him despite Amare's widely known health risk.
Wow. Tacko shattered the Combine record for height and reach Â
Knox DSJ and Robinson have not scraped the surface. In another year maybe AD is a FA and you can reel him in without emptying the team
Absolutely amazing with the Knicks history fans would disagree with this.
This would be different because Davis is much better then whatever prior "star" the Knicks traded for. When's the last time the Knicks had a first team all NBA caliber player? I don't think even Ewing ever made first team. Maybe Bernard that one year. Davis has done it 3x and still has several prime years left.
RE: Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make Â
Knox DSJ and Robinson have not scraped the surface. In another year maybe AD is a FA and you can reel him in without emptying the team
The Knicks have to clear the deck salary wise to bring in AD. By trading for him they can go over the cap to add him, bringing him in as a free agent in addition to KD and Kyrie isn't an option.
If you have a chance to get Robinson DsJ Knox 2 first rounders Â
from a likely terrible Dallas team that could turn into potential lottery picks vs AD who is getting the better deal?Knowing the Knicks they will even add more in their rush to be great and with our lack of luck AD formerly known as unibrow goes down.
RE: RE: RE: Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make Â
He did once, in 1989-90. King was first team twice, in 83-84 and 84-85. Willis Reed made it once (1969-70), Clyde four times (69-70, 71-72, 73-74, 74-75).That's all of them.
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
Jared Harper, Terrance Davis, Zylan cheatem and Jalen Lecque have been gaining some attention. If Lecque is there when the Knicks pick round 2 I take him and stash him in the g league
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
Jared Harper, Terrance Davis, Zylan cheatem and Jalen Lecque have been gaining some attention. If Lecque is there when the Knicks pick round 2 I take him and stash him in the g league
Great thanks for the info I'll definately keep a eye on those guys. I think the NBA combine has gotten way more important with all the one or two and dones. You don't get to see them as much in game situations as in the past.
I think it’s a bit over the top with the Wade comparisons, but who knows. As a guy that thinks Barrett is a bit overrated, articles like this at least give me some hope. There are a lot of people out there that absolutely love Barrett’s game, this is just one article that I just read so figured I’d post. Shades of Wade? - ( New Window )
I think it’s a bit over the top with the Wade comparisons, but who knows. As a guy that thinks Barrett is a bit overrated, articles like this at least give me some hope. There are a lot of people out there that absolutely love Barrett’s game, this is just one article that I just read so figured I’d post. Shades of Wade? - ( New Window )
Just read that myself.
Hale is an editor for the Post who doesn't write many articles any more but felt strongly about this subject.
I mostly agree with Hale and particularly agree with this comment from the U of Miami coach:
"Barrett is such an aggressive attacker. He does something that I’ve tried to teach my sons and my grandsons about basketball and that is, about 95 percent of the time the aggressor wins."
To add to this, I read a little BG from his pops fwiw:
Quote:
“We’d go to see family and take [RJ] out to the blacktop,” Rowan told Slam recently. “I went to school in New York, so I’d just travel to Harlem and Coney Island. I had an understanding of what that was and how important it was for him.
“The city game isn’t a lot of jump shots. It’s a lot of going to the rim. Figuring out how to get to the rim. No one calls fouls. All the trash talk, the chatter. Can you play while someone is talking to you? Don’t look over to the side. Daddy can’t help you. So we’d take him there in the summer and it was great for his development in terms of toughness. He learned the European way and then he played in Brooklyn.’’
I can see some Wade, tho Turner / Derozan seems a bit more accurate (splitting hairs). I could also see a Draymond light on day 1...not the same but could add energy, D, rebounding, push the O / pace w/ his handle, has a bit more O polish w/ the ball (tho DG might be a better passer today). IMO he has a versatility on day 1 that will make his NBA transition smoothest even if he has a lower ceiling - important if he's next to KD & KI - while learning from them to be an NBA #1 / #2
Pierce was an intermediate focused player w/ a post game. Also was a solid defender. His bball IQ was tops overall - if he had to score, he did. If he needed to handle the ball, sure. If he needed to defend, done. While RJ has a ton to prove at NBA level, that's a lot more like him. And similar to a Derozan light, Turner (and IMO lesser but Wade)
Harden is more a face up & drive if perimeter player (esp given his great / improved J). Also has minimal post presence. And no D. Nor does he have much motor off the ball. I'd give him credit for smarts w/ ball in hand, but his IQ off the ball & on D is weak (where RJ did well in college)
I know others say Harden, but IMO they are nothing alike
Kyrie/Kemba
DSJ
Barrett
Durant
Robinson
Or
Kyrie/Kemba
Barrett
Knox
Durant
Robinson
Frank would be a nice 2 in that first rotation if he ever learned to shoot but hopes are not high
if you have barrett and deandre you have to fi d a stretch 4...
kyrie/dennis smith
barrett/trier
durant/knox
stretch4
deandre/mitch
Quote:
In comment 14445353 Amtoft said:
Quote:
this needs to be clear. Ingram's blood clot is not the same thing as Chris Bosh. It was a structure type thing not something in his blood that is causing it. It isn't an issue you seem to think it is. So 21 year Ingram is the best player involved in any trade. Yes over Barrett also.
https://twitter.com/gswchris/status/1128758594638188544
Did you even listen to that... The guy next to him was like who do the Knicks have... he names some players and he buzzes them out. The only thing they have is both Dallas #1 to go with #3. Everything else is garbage that people don't want.
You thinking Knox and Barrett are similar style players and comparing Robinson to Javale McGee tells me everything I need to know.
Have you watched a lot of Robinson? How you watched a lot of the Lakers? Kuzma is 24 years old- 5/6 years older than the Knicks young guys and Barrett. Ball can’t finish at the rim at all and doesn’t shoot it well. Is he even a NBA point guard? Not to mention his injury history. And Ingram is a good young prospect. But it’s a massive risk trading for him with that health issue.
No it isn't. Morant is a transcendant player. Barrett isn't.
Appreciate that, thanks!
I just hope there are some monster springs in the near future.
So IMO the main pieces are 3 of the following 5: Mitch, #3 pick, future 1sts. Then add any combo of rostered players. I can stomach losing Mitch if it's him, the current & a future 1sts and 1-3 of Knox, Dot, DSJ, Trier etc. And maybe agree to 1 more. Either way it seems a decent starting point from what we know atm (BOS not likely due to AD, LAL maybe not due to NO)
But IMO that keeps the future nicely in tact no matter what happens now to 3-4 years down the line in terms of the FAs or rings. That said in spite of my preference, it's a great 'worst case' even if NYK does trade too much
So IMO the main pieces are 3 of the following 5: Mitch, #3 pick, future 1sts. Then add any combo of rostered players. I can stomach losing Mitch if it's him, the current & a future 1sts and 1-3 of Knox, Dot, DSJ, Trier etc. And maybe agree to 1 more. Either way it seems a decent starting point from what we know atm (BOS not likely due to AD, LAL maybe not due to NO)
But IMO that keeps the future nicely in tact no matter what happens now to 3-4 years down the line in terms of the FAs or rings. That said in spite of my preference, it's a great 'worst case' even if NYK does trade too much
Umm, the worst case is we sign 2 shitty guys (not KD or Kyrie) to max deals and languish as the 4th-5th best team in the East for 5 years.
I see what you mean, my b
Quote:
we're not discussing which FAs. So while I agree and have said as much (please no Butler), that's not relevant to the thread topic
I see what you mean, my b
No worries. Given NYK history, you're right to brace for the worst. I'm hopeful this time but still remember how this shit usually goes
We have no DeRozan, which is what makes this seem like an impossible trade.
New Orleans Pelicans Receive: Damyean Dotson, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith Jr., No. 3 pick (drafted by Knicks), 2020 first-round pick, 2021 first-round pick (via Dallas)
The 2nd one if I have this right, keeps all our original picks from 2021 on. Doesn't mortgage the future even if I'd prefer to keep an xtra 1st. Tho I think I prefer the former, this could work too. It also keeps 1 of Dot or DSJ - neither any kind of deal breaker, but given the option...
New Orleans Pelicans Receive: Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith Jr., No. 3 pick (drafted by Knicks), 2020 first-round pick (top-two protection), 2020 second-round pick (via Charlotte), 2021 first-round pick (via Dallas), 2023 first-round pick (top-10 protection, via Dallas)
Note neither gives up Mitch. We don't know if NO goes for it, but based on what we're hearing, NYK seems the best team match if AD said no to BOS & NO no to LAL, so it might be in right area. And if it has legs NYK must pursue for that price (basically if we keep Mitch and/or have all 1sts from 2021 fwd it's a must for an MVP caliber player)
BR Hypothetical AD Trades - ( New Window )
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
Agree
KD + AD > KD + Kyrie
Question is, will KD come with AD instead of Kyrie.
I'd rather keep our young core and get FAs instead of AD.
Not getting a pick lower than 3 is a total win. They beat the odds. Every year people claim the draft only has two players, and then we end up surprised when the rookie of the year isn't the #1 or #2 pick.
Quote:
seems a strong possibility as well.
No it isn't. Morant is a transcendant player. Barrett isn't.
Barrett depending on the team you ask is also considered very highly. Blue chip level in fact. Not necessarily transcendental or generational but superstar upside.
has a change of heart about Boston
Pick #3 is arguably the top asset any team in the running for AD can offer. Griffin will want the highest upside player to pair with Zion. Barrett carries that upside more than Tatum Brown Kuzma Ball or a injury clouded Ingram. Us getting pick 3 vs 4 or 5 was huge in terms of making this deal.
maybe the plan is durant and ad bring back deandre and try and keep smith to play point
Quote:
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
maybe the plan is durant and ad bring back deandre and try and keep smith to play point
People seem convinced it’s KD and Kyrie with kemba as the wildcard.
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
It would be pretty special to have all 3 of those guys courtesy of KP no less.
It would be pretty special to have all 3 of those guys courtesy of KP no less.
If somehow the miracle happens and KD and KI sign with the Knicks that will be easily the best trade in Knicks history.
Absolutely amazing with the Knicks history fans would disagree with this.
Quote:
Knox DSJ and Robinson have not scraped the surface. In another year maybe AD is a FA and you can reel him in without emptying the team
Absolutely amazing with the Knicks history fans would disagree with this.
availability heuristic. AD is not Eddy Curry, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury or Carmelo Anthony. Melo meanwhile was never the issue, the issue was deciding to pickup Billups' option and then amnesty him despite Amare's widely known health risk.
Quote:
Knox DSJ and Robinson have not scraped the surface. In another year maybe AD is a FA and you can reel him in without emptying the team
Absolutely amazing with the Knicks history fans would disagree with this.
This would be different because Davis is much better then whatever prior "star" the Knicks traded for. When's the last time the Knicks had a first team all NBA caliber player? I don't think even Ewing ever made first team. Maybe Bernard that one year. Davis has done it 3x and still has several prime years left.
The Knicks have to clear the deck salary wise to bring in AD. By trading for him they can go over the cap to add him, bringing him in as a free agent in addition to KD and Kyrie isn't an option.
He did once, in 1989-90. King was first team twice, in 83-84 and 84-85. Willis Reed made it once (1969-70), Clyde four times (69-70, 71-72, 73-74, 74-75).That's all of them.
I may break that promise to myself.
Imminent - ( New Window )
Quote:
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
Jared Harper, Terrance Davis, Zylan cheatem and Jalen Lecque have been gaining some attention. If Lecque is there when the Knicks pick round 2 I take him and stash him in the g league
Quote:
In comment 14446123 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
A lot of teams convinced it’s a done deal in terms of FA and that it’s Knicks for AD or they keep him unless he has a change of heart about Boston
Any guys blowing it up at the combine so far? I know last year Kevin Huerter got himself from undrafted to top 20 based on blowing them away there in the drills.
Jared Harper, Terrance Davis, Zylan cheatem and Jalen Lecque have been gaining some attention. If Lecque is there when the Knicks pick round 2 I take him and stash him in the g league
Great thanks for the info I'll definately keep a eye on those guys. I think the NBA combine has gotten way more important with all the one or two and dones. You don't get to see them as much in game situations as in the past.
Shades of Wade? - ( New Window )
Just read that myself.
Hale is an editor for the Post who doesn't write many articles any more but felt strongly about this subject.
I mostly agree with Hale and particularly agree with this comment from the U of Miami coach:
"Barrett is such an aggressive attacker. He does something that I’ve tried to teach my sons and my grandsons about basketball and that is, about 95 percent of the time the aggressor wins."
Would be very disappointing if they did. Foolish.
“The city game isn’t a lot of jump shots. It’s a lot of going to the rim. Figuring out how to get to the rim. No one calls fouls. All the trash talk, the chatter. Can you play while someone is talking to you? Don’t look over to the side. Daddy can’t help you. So we’d take him there in the summer and it was great for his development in terms of toughness. He learned the European way and then he played in Brooklyn.’’
I can see some Wade, tho Turner / Derozan seems a bit more accurate (splitting hairs). I could also see a Draymond light on day 1...not the same but could add energy, D, rebounding, push the O / pace w/ his handle, has a bit more O polish w/ the ball (tho DG might be a better passer today). IMO he has a versatility on day 1 that will make his NBA transition smoothest even if he has a lower ceiling - important if he's next to KD & KI - while learning from them to be an NBA #1 / #2
NYP Morant or Barrett - ( New Window )
I am warming up to Barrett. I don’t see Wade or Derozon at all. I can see Harden or Pierce if his shot develops.
Didn’t know Hunter was born in 1997, the rest of the prospects are a full 2.5 years younger.
Harden is more a face up & drive if perimeter player (esp given his great / improved J). Also has minimal post presence. And no D. Nor does he have much motor off the ball. I'd give him credit for smarts w/ ball in hand, but his IQ off the ball & on D is weak (where RJ did well in college)
I know others say Harden, but IMO they are nothing alike