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NFT: Pelicans not interested in LAL deal

Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2019 9:35 pm
Per LeBron's mouthpiece.

Quote:
@WindhorstESPN on Anthony Davis trade:

“If the Pelicans want to go all young and build around Zion, I think the Knicks have the best package to offer”

“From what I understand the Pelicans are not interested in making a deal with the Los Angeles Lakers”
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Sorry if it's been posted  
Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2019 9:40 pm : link
Didn't feel like going through the 100 pages of arguments on the thread below.
I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
Sean : 5/15/2019 9:40 pm : link
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.
That's OK  
Vanzetti : 5/15/2019 9:40 pm : link
Seems like the Lakers can move up in the draft whenever they need to.
Berman posted a photo  
nygiants16 : 5/15/2019 9:41 pm : link
of mills and perry talking to griffin, means absolutely nothing but let the speculation begin
RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14445595 Sean said:
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.


Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.
RE: RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
cokeduplt : 5/15/2019 9:52 pm : link
In comment 14445607 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14445595 Sean said:


Quote:


#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.



Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.



While I don dont disagree with your premise, Barrett could definitely turn into a star
RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
gmenatlarge : 5/15/2019 9:52 pm : link
In comment 14445595 Sean said:
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.


+1 That is the “old” Knicks way, time to keep what they have amassed and add FA’s!!! Plus give some of these young players a chance to develop, who knows?
RE: RE: RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14445608 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14445607 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14445595 Sean said:


Quote:


#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.



Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.




While I don dont disagree with your premise, Barrett could definitely turn into a star


Yeah he could. How far off is that? 3-4 years? KD & Kyrie could be gone by then.

Everything I'm saying is dependent on those two coming to NY.
Looking forward to the Lakers fans from the other thread  
Mike from SI : 5/15/2019 9:56 pm : link
reacting to this lol.
Zion apparently met with no teams and left  
nygiants16 : 5/15/2019 9:56 pm : link
Knicks met with Barrett and Morant
RE: Looking forward to the Lakers fans from the other thread  
Big Rick in FL : 5/15/2019 10:00 pm : link
In comment 14445612 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
reacting to this lol.


Considering who this is coming from Lakers fans can't really say much.
Between the Giants/ Knicks/ Mets  
jc in c-ville : 5/15/2019 10:22 pm : link
It’s a wonder I get out of bed to revisit it daily.
I dont think the Pelicans appreciate the way  
blueblood : 5/15/2019 10:30 pm : link
Bron, Clutch and AD tried to force his way to the Lakers this year. And if they are planning to build around Zion, why make LA a stronger team by trading them one of the best players in the league in a division you play in ?
I dont want to give up Robinson  
blueblood : 5/15/2019 10:33 pm : link
they need to keep some youth for depth.
"I think the Knicks have the best package to offer”  
ghost718 : 5/15/2019 10:42 pm : link
Yeah whatever you say Liverwurst
On another note  
hitdog42 : 5/15/2019 10:58 pm : link
Brook Lopez just won game 1 for the bucks. That’s like half of a win for nets fans
RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
Nine-Tails : 5/15/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14445595 Sean said:
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.


R you serious? If you could have Kyrie, kid, and Davis. I make that deal all day every day. I would try to keep Robinson, but wouldn't be a deal breaker.
RE:  
Nine-Tails : 5/15/2019 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14445648 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Yeah whatever you say Liverwurst


I think the Lakers getting the fourth pick hurts the knicks because they have better young talent and would beat any Knicks offer. If the Lakers stayed at nine, then different story.
Barrett, DSJ, Robinson and knox  
larryflower37 : 5/15/2019 11:31 pm : link
Plus the 2 Dallas picks.
Is a better deal than anything the Lakers can put up.
Plus the tampering left a bad taste in NO.
RE: Barrett, DSJ, Robinson and knox  
Nine-Tails : 5/15/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14445689 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Plus the 2 Dallas picks.
Is a better deal than anything the Lakers can put up.
Plus the tampering left a bad taste in NO.


The 4th pick, josh hart, kuzma, Ingram, Ball, and two first rounders is better imo. Im not high on smith jr and Knox. Plus Dallas could be really good in time. But, the refusal to trade with LA may loom large.
Best thing the Lakers could  
tyrik13 : 5/16/2019 12:04 am : link
And should do is just wait the extra year and then get AD in FA. Don’t believe all the other BS being said about AD to Boston, it’s nothing but smoke and mirrors. He’s with Clutch and he and Lebron speak daily, no way in hell he doesn’t end up in LA. Knicks need to keep every player they have, KD and Kyrie will be there soon enough, also possibly Jimmy B. Couple them with the young core and you have a playoff squad
RE: RE: I’m very worried about overpaying for AD  
TheMick7 : 5/16/2019 6:51 am : link
In comment 14445660 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14445595 Sean said:


Quote:


#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.



R you serious? If you could have Kyrie, kid, and Davis. I make that deal all day every day. I would try to keep Robinson, but wouldn't be a deal breaker.


Again,as has been touched on before, but in order to bring in all 3,you'd need to make the Davis deal in August,strip yourself of most of your roster & then add ring chasers to complete the roster.Don't think the Pelicans will wait that long so if the Knicks want Davis,they'd have to move sooner rather than later & then would only have cap space for KD & their PG would be DSmith (if he's not part of the trade). As much as I like AD,the prospect of stripping the roster bare (along w/1st round picks),not being able to bring in the veteran PG(Kyrie/Kemba) & trying to duplicate Miami's success( they had 3 stars) w/ring chasers isn't as appealing as bringing in 2 FAs (KD/Kyrie hopefully),keeping & allowing RJ & Mitch to grow as 2 homegrown stars & still bring in some ring chasers!
The history of the Knicks trading multiple players & picks for a star  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/16/2019 7:01 am : link
makes me very uncomfortable with this idea. You need the stars, but you need the developing role players too. Knicks put themselves in hell by trading draft picks.
Yeah, I heard Windhorst  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2019 7:20 am : link
on Russillo's pod saying that the Pels don't want to deal with the Lakers.
I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
Oscar : 5/16/2019 7:29 am : link
I know he is a good player but I don’t want to go that route. I would like to see the Knicks build a team for once, supplemented by free agents sure but not big asset draining trades.

RE: The history of the Knicks trading multiple players & picks for a star  
Big Rick in FL : 5/16/2019 7:47 am : link
In comment 14445740 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
makes me very uncomfortable with this idea. You need the stars, but you need the developing role players too. Knicks put themselves in hell by trading draft picks.


What stars have the Knicks ever traded for? McDyess? Carmelo? Both were good players. Neither are anywhere near Anthony Davis.
RE: I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
Dunedin81 : 5/16/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14445757 Oscar said:
Quote:
I know he is a good player but I don’t want to go that route. I would like to see the Knicks build a team for once, supplemented by free agents sure but not big asset draining trades.


I'd like to see them win. How they get there is immaterial to me.
Ja Morant  
Canton : 5/16/2019 8:31 am : link
Ja Morant points per possession percentile nationally:

Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd




Could he slide to 3?
RE: Ja Morant  
Anakim : 5/16/2019 8:45 am : link
In comment 14445810 Canton said:
Quote:
Ja Morant points per possession percentile nationally:

Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd




Could he slide to 3?


Someone posted in the other thread that Memphis has already told him they're taking him
I'm sure I'm in the minority but  
Metnut : 5/16/2019 9:12 am : link
if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.
What is with this 'Let's build a team of home grown  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/16/2019 9:14 am : link
dudes' mindset? I just want to win. And recent NBA history usually shows that if you got multiple stars, you're going to win.
RE: That's OK  
Harvest Blend : 5/16/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14445596 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Seems like the Lakers can move up in the draft whenever they need to.


:)

So long as MeBron is there.
RE: I'm sure I'm in the minority but  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14445865 Metnut said:
Quote:
if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.


De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.
RE: Ja Morant  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14445810 Canton said:
Quote:
Ja Morant points per possession percentile nationally:

Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd




Could he slide to 3?


Morant is a true floor general. He can score, but what makes him elite is his playmaking. He's an incredible passer.
RE: RE: I'm sure I'm in the minority but  
Metnut : 5/16/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14445880 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14445865 Metnut said:


Quote:


if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.



De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.


Sample size of 1.
RE: RE: RE: I'm sure I'm in the minority but  
Metnut : 5/16/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14445886 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14445880 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14445865 Metnut said:


Quote:


if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.



De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.



Sample size of 1.


Not saying Hunter is a bad pick either. Just that I prefer Culver based on his entire body of work and more balanced game. Barrett, Culver and Hunter are the #3, #4 and #5 prospects in the draft IMO (I think most would agree?) and Knicks are in position to take the best of them.

This is a much deeper lottery than people are giving credit for.
Lakers  
TyreeHelmet : 5/16/2019 9:29 am : link
I don’t agree with this, but let’s just say their trade package is better than than the Knicks. Is it so much better that the Pelicans ownership will give Davis what he wants and send him to LA? I doubt it.

The timing of this trade is going to be tricky. Do they agree to a deal in principle before the draft but don’t execute it until after free agency?
People need to stop referring to Anthony Davis...  
Italianju : 5/16/2019 9:30 am : link
as a "good" player or comparing him to trades for guys like McDyess. Anthony Davis is not a good player, he is a 26 year old in his prime HOF who will be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 5-8 years. I do think the knicks need to be careful and not give away every asset, but ill give up most of them.
Hunter's bigger, a better shooter, and a better defender  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2019 9:33 am : link
6'8" 230 with a 7'1" wingspan.

Culver's really good, don't get me wrong. He's a better passer with a better handle than Dre, and he's a very good defensive player, but not on Dre's level.

I freely admit to being a homer.
RE: People need to stop referring to Anthony Davis...  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14445900 Italianju said:
Quote:
as a "good" player or comparing him to trades for guys like McDyess. Anthony Davis is not a good player, he is a 26 year old in his prime HOF who will be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 5-8 years. I do think the knicks need to be careful and not give away every asset, but ill give up most of them.


This. People keep referencing the Melo trade - that's silly because Melo was never on AD's level as a player.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm sure I'm in the minority but  
larryflower37 : 5/16/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14445891 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14445886 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 14445880 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 14445865 Metnut said:


Quote:


if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.



De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.



Sample size of 1.



Not saying Hunter is a bad pick either. Just that I prefer Culver based on his entire body of work and more balanced game. Barrett, Culver and Hunter are the #3, #4 and #5 prospects in the draft IMO (I think most would agree?) and Knicks are in position to take the best of them.

This is a much deeper lottery than people are giving credit for.

Hunter is deadly from 3 and a strong defender which is what you need with KD and another max.
Barrett not hitting the 3 bothers me with 2 max players.
This is why the Knicks deal is legit  
Giantz_comeback : 5/16/2019 9:43 am : link
The Pelicans potential starting lineup for next season:

Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson

Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt


And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.

The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.
RE: People need to stop referring to Anthony Davis...  
Giantz_comeback : 5/16/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14445900 Italianju said:
Quote:
as a "good" player or comparing him to trades for guys like McDyess. Anthony Davis is not a good player, he is a 26 year old in his prime HOF who will be one of the top 5 players in the league for the next 5-8 years. I do think the knicks need to be careful and not give away every asset, but ill give up most of them.


Exactly. And our philosophy drastically shifts to win it all when we bring in KD. They won't want the learning curves and potential unknowns of younger unproven players in filling out the roster.
RE: This is why the Knicks deal is legit  
Harvest Blend : 5/16/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14445917 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
The Pelicans potential starting lineup for next season:

Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson

Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt


And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.

The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.


So which is it? Those 4 guys plus the Dallas unprotected or the 3 guys plus the Dallas unprotected. Or, just the 4 guys?

Not being a wise ass, just don't understand.
RE: I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
Giantz_comeback : 5/16/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14445757 Oscar said:
Quote:
I know he is a good player but I don’t want to go that route. I would like to see the Knicks build a team for once, supplemented by free agents sure but not big asset draining trades.


Good? Hes 26 and top 5-10 in entire NBA. Id say that's better than good.

KD and AD would probably be the top 2 or 3 guys the Knicks have EVER gotten in FA history if we get them.
RE: I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
rich in DC : 5/16/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14445757 Oscar said:
Quote:
I know he is a good player but I don’t want to go that route. I would like to see the Knicks build a team for once, supplemented by free agents sure but not big asset draining trades.


People, you CANNOT have it both ways. Unless you have the #1 pick and get a Zio, LeBron or similar type of prospect, you are NOT building a championship team with through the draft.

People also need to keep in mind that Durant will turn 31 in September- meaning that his window- and the window of any team that signs him is going to be very short- maybe 3-4 years. That means if you sign Durant, it is "all-in" now, not later.

The Knicks will try and create a situation where they add two additional stars who are much younger than Durant- like Davis who doesn't even turn 27 until next March- or Irving who also turns 27 in March. In that way, when Durant's contract ends (and he ages out of superstar status), they can add another big star to complement those two.

However, holding onto draft picks does nothing. Let's just assume for a moment that the Dallas pick becomes the #1 pick in that draft- that player doesn't even put on a Knick uniform until October/November 2021. Even then, unless he is a transcendent player (and there aren't any on the horizon for that draft right now), it takes that player 2-3 years to become a star in his own right.

The problem? Let's assume that the Knicks bring in AD and Irving this off-season. Using the above assumption about the #1 overall pick, that player doesn't become useful to those other stars until about 2023- when both AD and Irving are about 32-33 years old- and their windows are closing fast.

Bigger problem is that AD's and Irving's contracts would also expire in the interim. Most FA are going to look at the young guy and think to themselves "he can't help me win a championship" and go elsewhere.

For better or worse, the NBA has become a mercenary league. While system teams like the Spurs have some success- but have won one title in 15 years (2014)- it is usually FA that puts a team over the top.

Golden State DID draft Curry and Thompson- but signed Durant to supplement their run. Would GS have won in 2017 and 2018 without Durant? Maybe, but it sure helped to have him.

Look at Miami with LeBron, or Cleveland after bringing in LeBron. While not getting Love in FA, they don't get that run without that trade (using a top pick to get him).

In short, in the modern era, it is POSSIBLE to partially build through the draft- but that is the exception to the rule that you build for now with FA and trades.

Besides, counting on future 1st rounders is a fools errand- look at Boston, who thought they were smart in loading up on 1st rounders, with the idea that they could turn them into assets. A year ago, having Sacramento and Memphis' first rounders looked like gold.

Now, they have 3 middling picks in a shallow draft- none higher than #14- and those picks don't amount to much or give them leverage. The lottery is unpredictable and as we have learned, having one of the worst, or even the worst record, does not guarantee anything.

Take the sure route and made trades/sign FA. That is the only way to have firm control over your destiny. Anything else is relying on outside factors that you can't control- and can come back to bite you.
RE: RE: This is why the Knicks deal is legit  
Giantz_comeback : 5/16/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14445923 Harvest Blend said:
Quote:
In comment 14445917 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:


The Pelicans potential starting lineup for next season:

Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson

Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt


And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.

The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.



So which is it? Those 4 guys plus the Dallas unprotected or the 3 guys plus the Dallas unprotected. Or, just the 4 guys?

Not being a wise ass, just don't understand.


To make the deal work salary cap wise we likely have to give them every contract greater than 4 million. So that would be DSJ Knox and Frank and the #3 pick (7-8 mill). Mitch is only 1.5 mill or so we can squeeze him in under the cap. Without Mitch they probably ask for an extra FRP.
RE: RE: I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
Greg from LI : 5/16/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14445924 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
KD and AD would probably be the top 2 or 3 guys the Knicks have EVER gotten in FA history if we get them.


Hell, they'd be in the top handful of players the Knicks have ever had. Frazier, Reed, and Ewing are the only ones I'd say are in the ballpark with them.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t want to trade the farm for Davis  
Giantz_comeback : 5/16/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14445932 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14445924 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:


KD and AD would probably be the top 2 or 3 guys the Knicks have EVER gotten in FA history if we get them.



Hell, they'd be in the top handful of players the Knicks have ever had. Frazier, Reed, and Ewing are the only ones I'd say are in the ballpark with them.


Yes sir. And Kyrie while lower on the list is still probably top 10-15. And that's all at once potentially.
Calling Davis "good" is like calling Ewing "good".  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/16/2019 10:09 am : link
You can have a conversation about Davis not being able to get his teams far by himself in NOLA, but he's top 6-8 in the sport as a legit two way player, his offense is built for the modern NBA. Literally his only flaw seems to be a tendency to get nicked up and miss games.
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