Â
|
|
Quote: |
@WindhorstESPN on Anthony Davis trade: “If the Pelicans want to go all young and build around Zion, I think the Knicks have the best package to offer” “From what I understand the Pelicans are not interested in making a deal with the Los Angeles Lakers” |
Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.
Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.
While I don dont disagree with your premise, Barrett could definitely turn into a star
+1 That is the “old” Knicks way, time to keep what they have amassed and add FA’s!!! Plus give some of these young players a chance to develop, who knows?
Quote:
In comment 14445595 Sean said:
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.
Why? The NBA is a star league. None of those guys will ever be stars. A trio of KD, Kyrie & AD gives you a realistic chance at an NBA title for a handful of years. If you win 1 title or possibly more in a 3-4 year span then it was well worth it.
While I don dont disagree with your premise, Barrett could definitely turn into a star
Yeah he could. How far off is that? 3-4 years? KD & Kyrie could be gone by then.
Everything I'm saying is dependent on those two coming to NY.
Considering who this is coming from Lakers fans can't really say much.
R you serious? If you could have Kyrie, kid, and Davis. I make that deal all day every day. I would try to keep Robinson, but wouldn't be a deal breaker.
I think the Lakers getting the fourth pick hurts the knicks because they have better young talent and would beat any Knicks offer. If the Lakers stayed at nine, then different story.
Is a better deal than anything the Lakers can put up.
Plus the tampering left a bad taste in NO.
Is a better deal than anything the Lakers can put up.
Plus the tampering left a bad taste in NO.
The 4th pick, josh hart, kuzma, Ingram, Ball, and two first rounders is better imo. Im not high on smith jr and Knox. Plus Dallas could be really good in time. But, the refusal to trade with LA may loom large.
Quote:
#3, Knox, Robinson, DSJR & future 1st would be a mistake imo.
R you serious? If you could have Kyrie, kid, and Davis. I make that deal all day every day. I would try to keep Robinson, but wouldn't be a deal breaker.
Again,as has been touched on before, but in order to bring in all 3,you'd need to make the Davis deal in August,strip yourself of most of your roster & then add ring chasers to complete the roster.Don't think the Pelicans will wait that long so if the Knicks want Davis,they'd have to move sooner rather than later & then would only have cap space for KD & their PG would be DSmith (if he's not part of the trade). As much as I like AD,the prospect of stripping the roster bare (along w/1st round picks),not being able to bring in the veteran PG(Kyrie/Kemba) & trying to duplicate Miami's success( they had 3 stars) w/ring chasers isn't as appealing as bringing in 2 FAs (KD/Kyrie hopefully),keeping & allowing RJ & Mitch to grow as 2 homegrown stars & still bring in some ring chasers!
What stars have the Knicks ever traded for? McDyess? Carmelo? Both were good players. Neither are anywhere near Anthony Davis.
I'd like to see them win. How they get there is immaterial to me.
Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd
Could he slide to 3?
Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd
Could he slide to 3?
Someone posted in the other thread that Memphis has already told him they're taking him
:)
So long as MeBron is there.
De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.
Overall individually: 76th
Overall including assists: 96th
Pick and roll: 56th
Pick and roll including assists: 59th
Transition: 78th
ISO: 72nd
Spot-Up: 77th
Jump shots: 60th
Around basket: 51st
Catch and shoot: 72nd
Could he slide to 3?
Morant is a true floor general. He can score, but what makes him elite is his playmaking. He's an incredible passer.
Quote:
if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.
De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.
Sample size of 1.
Quote:
In comment 14445865 Metnut said:
Quote:
if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.
De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.
Sample size of 1.
Not saying Hunter is a bad pick either. Just that I prefer Culver based on his entire body of work and more balanced game. Barrett, Culver and Hunter are the #3, #4 and #5 prospects in the draft IMO (I think most would agree?) and Knicks are in position to take the best of them.
This is a much deeper lottery than people are giving credit for.
The timing of this trade is going to be tricky. Do they agree to a deal in principle before the draft but don’t execute it until after free agency?
Culver's really good, don't get me wrong. He's a better passer with a better handle than Dre, and he's a very good defensive player, but not on Dre's level.
I freely admit to being a homer.
This. People keep referencing the Melo trade - that's silly because Melo was never on AD's level as a player.
Quote:
In comment 14445880 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14445865 Metnut said:
Quote:
if the idea if to bring a player in to play with KD and Irving, I prefer Jarrett Culver at #3. More balanced game than Barrett. Less upside, but still all-star upside IMO. Better and safer pick IMO.
De'Andre Hunter is better than Culver - outplayed him when they were matched up on each other in the NCAA title game.
Sample size of 1.
Not saying Hunter is a bad pick either. Just that I prefer Culver based on his entire body of work and more balanced game. Barrett, Culver and Hunter are the #3, #4 and #5 prospects in the draft IMO (I think most would agree?) and Knicks are in position to take the best of them.
This is a much deeper lottery than people are giving credit for.
Hunter is deadly from 3 and a strong defender which is what you need with KD and another max.
Barrett not hitting the 3 bothers me with 2 max players.
Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson
Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt
And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.
The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.
Exactly. And our philosophy drastically shifts to win it all when we bring in KD. They won't want the learning curves and potential unknowns of younger unproven players in filling out the roster.
Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson
Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt
And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.
The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.
So which is it? Those 4 guys plus the Dallas unprotected or the 3 guys plus the Dallas unprotected. Or, just the 4 guys?
Not being a wise ass, just don't understand.
Good? Hes 26 and top 5-10 in entire NBA. Id say that's better than good.
KD and AD would probably be the top 2 or 3 guys the Knicks have EVER gotten in FA history if we get them.
People, you CANNOT have it both ways. Unless you have the #1 pick and get a Zio, LeBron or similar type of prospect, you are NOT building a championship team with through the draft.
People also need to keep in mind that Durant will turn 31 in September- meaning that his window- and the window of any team that signs him is going to be very short- maybe 3-4 years. That means if you sign Durant, it is "all-in" now, not later.
The Knicks will try and create a situation where they add two additional stars who are much younger than Durant- like Davis who doesn't even turn 27 until next March- or Irving who also turns 27 in March. In that way, when Durant's contract ends (and he ages out of superstar status), they can add another big star to complement those two.
However, holding onto draft picks does nothing. Let's just assume for a moment that the Dallas pick becomes the #1 pick in that draft- that player doesn't even put on a Knick uniform until October/November 2021. Even then, unless he is a transcendent player (and there aren't any on the horizon for that draft right now), it takes that player 2-3 years to become a star in his own right.
The problem? Let's assume that the Knicks bring in AD and Irving this off-season. Using the above assumption about the #1 overall pick, that player doesn't become useful to those other stars until about 2023- when both AD and Irving are about 32-33 years old- and their windows are closing fast.
Bigger problem is that AD's and Irving's contracts would also expire in the interim. Most FA are going to look at the young guy and think to themselves "he can't help me win a championship" and go elsewhere.
For better or worse, the NBA has become a mercenary league. While system teams like the Spurs have some success- but have won one title in 15 years (2014)- it is usually FA that puts a team over the top.
Golden State DID draft Curry and Thompson- but signed Durant to supplement their run. Would GS have won in 2017 and 2018 without Durant? Maybe, but it sure helped to have him.
Look at Miami with LeBron, or Cleveland after bringing in LeBron. While not getting Love in FA, they don't get that run without that trade (using a top pick to get him).
In short, in the modern era, it is POSSIBLE to partially build through the draft- but that is the exception to the rule that you build for now with FA and trades.
Besides, counting on future 1st rounders is a fools errand- look at Boston, who thought they were smart in loading up on 1st rounders, with the idea that they could turn them into assets. A year ago, having Sacramento and Memphis' first rounders looked like gold.
Now, they have 3 middling picks in a shallow draft- none higher than #14- and those picks don't amount to much or give them leverage. The lottery is unpredictable and as we have learned, having one of the worst, or even the worst record, does not guarantee anything.
Take the sure route and made trades/sign FA. That is the only way to have firm control over your destiny. Anything else is relying on outside factors that you can't control- and can come back to bite you.
Quote:
The Pelicans potential starting lineup for next season:
Jrue Holiday
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Zion Williamson
Mitchell Robinson
Bench:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Frank Jackson
E’twaun Moore
Christian Wood
Kenrich Williams
Cheick Diallo
Trevon Blueitt
And honestly we may not need to give them Mitchell if we offer the Dal unprotected FRP.
The young guys have higher upside combined with the Dal unprotected pick. Barrett may be their favorite piece of any deal out there. And it usually is about getting the best guy back.
So which is it? Those 4 guys plus the Dallas unprotected or the 3 guys plus the Dallas unprotected. Or, just the 4 guys?
Not being a wise ass, just don't understand.
To make the deal work salary cap wise we likely have to give them every contract greater than 4 million. So that would be DSJ Knox and Frank and the #3 pick (7-8 mill). Mitch is only 1.5 mill or so we can squeeze him in under the cap. Without Mitch they probably ask for an extra FRP.
Hell, they'd be in the top handful of players the Knicks have ever had. Frazier, Reed, and Ewing are the only ones I'd say are in the ballpark with them.
Quote:
KD and AD would probably be the top 2 or 3 guys the Knicks have EVER gotten in FA history if we get them.
Hell, they'd be in the top handful of players the Knicks have ever had. Frazier, Reed, and Ewing are the only ones I'd say are in the ballpark with them.
Yes sir. And Kyrie while lower on the list is still probably top 10-15. And that's all at once potentially.