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Potential underrated signing: FS Antoine Bethea

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/16/2019 10:05 am
James Bettcher on Bethea: "We have a chance to add Antoine Bethea, a guy who is one of the highest character players I have ever been around, smart, intelligent and an unbelievable leader. As you have an opportunity to wrap your hands around him and embrace him a little bit, you will see what I am talking about with him. I was talking to him the other day and I was joking with him telling him that as time goes on, I get more gray hair. As time goes on, he gets younger. That is just when you see his play, that is what it has been. The years in the league have progressed for him. He has played fast and played young. That what impresses me about him."


Antoine Bethea Giants S 2018 Highlights - ( New Window )
My concern is injury  
George from PA : 5/16/2019 10:11 am : link
At his age
I read yesterday on BBI that he ran a 4.39 forty in 2006  
Milton : 5/16/2019 10:14 am : link
Even if he lost a tenth of a second (or two) to age, that's still fast enough to play the safety position especially given the years of experience that goes with it.
RE: My concern is injury  
Klaatu : 5/16/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14445957 George from PA said:
Quote:
At his age


Injuries can happen at any age.

I liken this move to the Giants signing Sam Madison in 2006, when Madison was 32. He played well and was a good influence on a kid like Corey Webster, who'd been struggling. Bethea can have the same type of impact for the Giants' relatively young crop of Safeties.
I think it's imperative to have experienced pros like Bethea & Jenkins  
GiantBlue : 5/16/2019 10:22 am : link
mold our younger and young safety & cornerback corps. I will add in Thomas as well. Someone mentioned that we will probably see missed zone assignments in the early part of the schedule as the DB's learn the schemes, develop experience and hone their teamwork.

It is one thing to play with instinct & innate knowledge of where to be and where your teammates will be, but I don't think these guys will be there at first which could lead to some issues.

Therefore, having Bethea, Jenkins & Thomas could help in accelerating the process....especially with Bethea intimately knowing Bettcha's defense and Jenkins/Thomas being in it for one year.
I think so too...  
Dnew15 : 5/16/2019 10:23 am : link
I like this signing - it has kind of a Sam Madison ring to it.
I would like it even more if there was someone on the depth chart at FS that could take over for him come week 6...and they might if the plan is to convert one of the CB to FS.
What we need from him  
JonC : 5/16/2019 10:24 am : link
is the young guys to soak up the knowledge, professionalism, etc, because he's likely only here for a season or two. He's about setting a tone in the locker room and on the football field.
Hopefully he can be Deon Grant #2  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2019 10:27 am : link
there are a good number of similarities, both guys were smart players with ball skills who had track records of staying healthy their entire career and producing over long careers. Would have liked to add 1 more rangy safety in the draft to start grooming behind him, but perhaps they think Ballentine or Love can partially fill that role. Or even Sean Chandler.
RE: I read yesterday on BBI that he ran a 4.39 forty in 2006  
DonQuixote : 5/16/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14445961 Milton said:
Quote:
Even if he lost a tenth of a second (or two) to age, that's still fast enough to play the safety position especially given the years of experience that goes with it.


Well, Eli won two SBs since then. It's kind of a long time ago.
RE: I think so too...  
Snacks : 5/16/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14445973 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
I like this signing - it has kind of a Sam Madison ring to it.
I would like it even more if there was someone on the depth chart at FS that could take over for him come week 6...and they might if the plan is to convert one of the CB to FS.


Was thinking the same thing re: Madison and McQuarters being brought in around 2006 to teach Webster, Ross and others how to be pros.
Don't forget  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/16/2019 10:42 am : link
Everson Walls.
Everson Walls was another going even further back (1990)  
Milton : 5/16/2019 10:44 am : link
When he signed with the Giants he was suspicious that it was just temporary because they were keeping at CB and he thought that at his age and speed he was more likely to win a roster spot at safety. But Parcells and Belichick had a plan and he helped win another Super Bowl with Big Blue.
RE: Don't forget  
Milton : 5/16/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14446011 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Everson Walls.
Haha, beat me to it!
Hmmm...  
Milton : 5/16/2019 10:47 am : link
Wikipedia says Walls played safety, but my recollection was that he played corner, maybe it was nickel CB, but I don't think he played safety in 1990.
Bethea  
GothamGiants : 5/16/2019 10:52 am : link
The perfect “center fielder” in this defense

Knows Bettcher’s scheme, will help the young guys line up/know their assignments, and a high character guy,

Yet another brilliant move not getting anywhere near the praise it should Bethea + Peppers is an enormous upgrade from Riley/Collins, especially in pass defense.
RE: Bethea  
Milton : 5/16/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14446032 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
Bethea + Peppers is an enormous upgrade from Riley/Collins, especially in pass defense.
I think we'll see the difference most when teams have the ball in the final minutes and the Giants are ahead by a score.
Pretty good chance that when the Giants...  
M.S. : 5/16/2019 11:09 am : link

...are finally competitive and a serious threat to go deep into the playoffs, Antoine Bethea will be retired. The Giants got him for the here & now, hoping to bring stability to a re-made secondary. But he's not a guy you bring in for the long term.
if he can only run a 4.5 now guys that's flying  
gtt350 : 5/16/2019 11:16 am : link
.
Or this is a crash and burn  
larryflower37 : 5/16/2019 11:23 am : link
Relying on a 35 yr old FS with no depth behind him.
If he was a role player and/or a situational player it would be a solid signing.
The Giants are expecting him to be the main FS and call the secondary.

They said the same thing about Jonathan Stewart.
Going from  
mittenedman : 5/16/2019 11:26 am : link
Curtis Riley to Bethea is one of the biggest upgrades of any team at any position in the NFL.

Riley is not an NFL football player.
Literally anyone is an upgrade  
Now Mike in MD : 5/16/2019 11:30 am : link
over Riley. Even if he is average that's a huge upgrade. Similar to Remmers that way.

ALl told, the upgrades to our secondary are pretty amazing. Even if the rookies and Beal have some gorwing pains, they are still better than Webb and Haley. And even if Bethea is just ok, he is much better than riley
I watched his highlights yesterday and came away impressed  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2019 11:31 am : link
Genuinely excited about the Giants secondary, I think the Betcher blitz packages are going to be bolstered by the new additions in the secondary. Sticky cover corners who are physical, and versatile safeties who can play multiple roles in the secondary as well as being effective speedy blitzers. I’ve also thought about this in DeAndres Baker skillset in a blitzing defense and the Giants emphasis not only on his coverage ability but his ability as a tackler. If the heat is coming and hot routes are being hit, you want a db that isn’t only sticky in coverage but is reliable taking receivers down(and is also a trait which carries over if he were used on any corner blitzes)
Also this might be the worse set of highlights  
larryflower37 : 5/16/2019 11:32 am : link
I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him.
RE: Also this might be the worse set of highlights  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14446098 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him.


It helps to watch the Curtis Riley highlights before the Antoine Bethea highlights.
Some of you guys  
wonderback : 5/16/2019 11:43 am : link
Are incredible 'Debbie Downers'. It's a good signing. He's played well in years past and last year. No reason he can't do the same for us. It's an upgrade. Maybe not the optimal situation but still a large improvement over last year. Plus, he's a high character guy, plus he knows the defense. Some of you guys want an All Pro, cap friendly player at all positions. Geeezz. How do some of you get up in the morning?
Whats not to love  
Gettledogman : 5/16/2019 11:50 am : link
Understands scheme, team leader type, player with toughness, team first oriented type, smart. Savvy vet that can help the kids -good role model too. Solid pick up by the Dogman! Love the team he's building.
RE: Hmmm...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/16/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14446024 Milton said:
Quote:
Wikipedia says Walls played safety, but my recollection was that he played corner, maybe it was nickel CB, but I don't think he played safety in 1990.

But but but wikipedia always right about everything. I recall Walls and Collins at CB and Guyton and Jackson at S.
Father time is still undefeated  
George from PA : 5/16/2019 12:10 pm : link
....lets hope he still has it
Reading some of the comments I understand  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2019 12:13 pm : link
The reason Eric created this thread.

I think some posters can’t get past the A)Age of Bethea B)Fact he has a relationship with Betcher and knows his scheme, which means he was brought in as some elder tutor.

You can either play good football or you can’t, I don’t care how old you are or if you are best pals with the coordinator.

Betcher can play, and Betcher can play very well. This was a good signing.

One of the issues for 2018 Giants was the mix of “super star” name players with players who were best suited as NFL backups. 3/5 of the oline were NFL backups playing as starters, half the secondary(or more depending on formation). Riley, Webb? Practice squad guy called up to be our starting nickel corner? Replacing the backups with good starters is an underrated move the Giants have been making and I think that doesn’t get enough recognition. The difference from Riley to Bethea is huge.
RE: Also this might be the worse set of highlights  
gmen9892 : 5/16/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14446098 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him.


And if it were Riley covering, he wouldn't have made the tackle 8/10 times. I think that's the point. Bethea is a solid tackler and is in the right place almost every time.
RE: Also this might be the worse set of highlights  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/16/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14446098 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him.
All you have to do is watch it to see that this is nonsense.
Good tackles, close to the line  
Angus : 5/16/2019 1:06 pm : link
is a good thing. The Giants need help in coverage, though. Hopefully Love or Peppers can make them better covering the middle of the field.
Some of you need a reminder  
GothamGiants : 5/16/2019 1:50 pm : link
Here, watch Curtis Riley


Riley ... - ( New Window )
Ummmm,  
MarkT : 5/16/2019 2:13 pm : link
" I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him...."
Larry, you should try watching the video for real, instead of bullshitting your way through.
RE: Ummmm,  
larryflower37 : 5/16/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14446359 MarkT said:
Quote:
" I have seen.
One play he tackles the RB on a 15 yard carry.
Every tackle seemed to be after a first down or a completed pass in front of him...."
Larry, you should try watching the video for real, instead of bullshitting your way through.

Watch the whole video.
Take the rose color glasses off and you might see what I mean.
RE: Some of you guys  
Bill L : 5/16/2019 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14446112 wonderback said:
Quote:
Are incredible 'Debbie Downers'. It's a good signing. He's played well in years past and last year. No reason he can't do the same for us. It's an upgrade. Maybe not the optimal situation but still a large improvement over last year. Plus, he's a high character guy, plus he knows the defense. Some of you guys want an All Pro, cap friendly player at all positions. Geeezz. How do some of you get up in the morning?
It just seems like since we lost radar, everyone wants to be radar.
RE: Good tackles, close to the line  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14446264 Angus said:
Quote:
is a good thing. The Giants need help in coverage, though. Hopefully Love or Peppers can make them better covering the middle of the field.


Bethea can do both, he manned FS position in Betchers defense in 2017 and played exceptional, with a higher grade in 2017 than Landon Collins ever achieved in his 4 seasons:

Quote:


PFF_Giants
Antoine Bethea played FS under Giants DC James Bettcher back in 2017 when he was the DC of the Arizona Cardinals.

Bethea had a career resurgence in that season finishing the year as a Top 10 Safety in our grading system.



Also Peppers has some experience moving around as well, he logged 281 snaps at FS for Cleveland last year, along with 329 snaps in the box, so Cleveland really used Peppers all over and he had a strong year(better than Collins). Compare that to Collins last year who had 468 box snaps to 109 deep(FS)...these new safeties have a lot of versatility.
finally a competent  
bc4life : 5/16/2019 3:26 pm : link
secondary leader
finally a competent  
bc4life : 5/16/2019 3:27 pm : link
secondary leader
...  
GothamGiants : 5/16/2019 3:28 pm : link
Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

Players like Bethea and Remmers don't need to be great in order to still be significant upgrades ...

I'd apologize for the repeat post, but unfortunately it's necessary. Bethea (and Remmers) are significant upgrades from Riley (and Wheeler). I'm sure people will still bitch because they aren't Ed Reed and Jon Ogden - but they are still improvements.
As long as he's better than  
MM_in_NYC : 5/16/2019 5:15 pm : link
CC Brown and James Butler he's fine as stopgap. The latter of which we were able to win a SB with.
Debbie Downer or not  
bluepepper : 5/16/2019 5:49 pm : link
the guy is 35. There haven't been a whole lot of DB's who were still effective at that age over the years. Set your expectations accordingly.
Bethea  
XBRONX : 5/16/2019 5:53 pm : link
is very good when blitzing.
I'd prefer to set my expectations on his actual recent performance  
BSIMatt : 5/16/2019 5:53 pm : link
on a football field, than inferring performance based on some arbitrary age cutoff.
RE: What we need from him  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/16/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14445978 JonC said:
Quote:
is the young guys to soak up the knowledge, professionalism, etc, because he's likely only here for a season or two. He's about setting a tone in the locker room and on the football field.


This. All of which this team has been severely lacking.
Decent signing. Not a star out there but with the shit  
Jimmy Googs : 5/16/2019 8:14 pm : link
we have thrown out at safety over the past few years, Bethea is an upgrade albeit on the decline.

is he the starting Free Safety ?  
Bluesbreaker : 5/16/2019 8:49 pm : link
Providing he beats out whomever I assume Peppers will
take Collins spot at SS ...
Pretty excited with the overhaul of the secondary and
we don't have to freak out if JJ went down .
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