Some reason for optimism- our edge rushers

Found this regarding Olsen Pierre's production with Betcher in 2017:

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In his first two seasons in the NFL, undrafted free agent Olsen Pierre was unable to get on the field. Last season, Pierre finished with 11.5 tackles at or behind the line. That number ranked behind only Chandler Jones (29) and Corey Peters (12) for Arizona in 2017. Under defensive coordinator James Bettcher, the Cardinals had not had a full-time 3-technique role for any defensive tackle for several years. This is one reason why Pierre played just 33 percent of Arizona's defensive snaps, despite his production.

The Best-Kept Secret on Every NFL Roster - ( New Window )

Carter showed reasonably well as a rookie. Thinking he could be pretty effective isn’t unrealistic. We don’t need 20 sacks from him. 8,9 maybe? That would work. And Golden has already shown he’s a good player. Recovering from his injury is something that’s not uncommon in the league. If the two of them could play the run reasonably well and put up a decent number of sacks/pressures that would be a big upgrade from last year.

couldn't find the video - saw the two clips where the boy got to close out the practice but didn't see anything else.

YANKEE28 - you seem like the right person to ask this question. How are the Giants able to have practices with coaches and players on the field together right now? It's not one of the official OTA's or anything and I thought that other than those OTA's the coaches were not allowed on the field with players who choose to practice. Am I wrong?

Thanks in advance and for all your great nuggets! Going to listen to the podcast on the way home from work in a minute here.

missed where you mentioned the video was from AFTER practice and to look for #59 for his size. Hard for me to tell much, maybe looks a little bit bigger but my memory is fuzzy.

Anyway, thanks again, and if you could help answer this question I have I'd appreciate it.

The OTAs start next Monday.

This is Phase Two of the offseason program. Its voluntary, but the Giants have 100% participation. Coaches and players can be on the field for 90 minutes a day during this period-but its no helmets, no offense vs defense, no one on one drills, etc.

the archetype for a feast or famine addition. Either he returns to something close to his former form, or not.

I know Dennis personally. We served together, in fact, he worked for me. I didn’t even know he was friends with Zak D?!

not buying the optimism of this part of the team.

Pass rush will need a shitload of effort and some luck from injuries on opposing starting Tackles to even be kind of average.

Couldn’t cover everything when a roster has that many holes...

his had use is better than some of the first round guys. And Connelly looks like he was born to blitz. That will work fo us because Carter can really cover.

If Golden resembles the player he was 3 seasons ago then the pass rush could be a big surprise this season. If those two play well the defense could be a top 10 unit with the improved secondary.

1. Can we stop the run?
2. Can these young guys cover?










3. Can we rush the passer?



Bettcher will get the pass rush when he needs but that only works if we put the offense in 2nd/3rd and longs. For those that didn't read the article from last year, we were solid at pressuring QBs last year but our secondary couldn't hold up. Stopping the run and covering are so much more of a concern than Bettcher dialing up pressures. I think people forget how bad we were at stopping the run last year.

Plus, check out this from the college coaches for Dexter Lawrence, and especially Oshane Ximines...

Todd Bates (Clemson D-Line coach) and Bobby Wilder (Old Dominion head coach) discuss Dexter Lawrence and Oshane Ximines, respectively
Big Blue Kickoff Live (5/9) - Lawrence and Ximines college coaches - ( New Window )

I was happy when the signed him but even more psyched after listening to the interview. He says he feels 100% and is happy to be back in this defense.

As for Carter, he is my favorite defensive player. He had a very good rookie year and I think he will be a stud this year.

In comment 14446663 Phil in LA said:

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his had use is better than some of the first round guys. And Connelly looks like he was born to blitz. That will work fo us because Carter can really cover.

I really think X Man can bring some pass rush. Connelly had a great 3 cone I guess. Has very good change of direction, good a timing his blitz.

I am hopeful with our young LB Corp.

Eric. I had missed those 2 interviews.

The lack of sacks given the amount of pressure generated was somewhat of a statistical anomaly. Football Outsiders had the Giants mid-pack pressure team, but obviously the sack numbers weren't there.

The Giants have 3 top 70 picks on the d line. The pocket better stay uncomfortable, that's the indicator of a lower passing rating. With how downright awful the pass coverage was by the linebackers and secondary, I'm hoping to see better coverage from Golden and Carter.

Were awesome. So interesting that Ximines had studied and patterned himself after Vernon, was just comparing their draft profiles the other day and was struck by how similar both players were as prospects entering the league.

In comment 14446675 robbieballs2003 said:

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1. Can we stop the run? 2. Can these young guys cover? 3. Can we rush the passer? Bettcher will get the pass rush when he needs but that only works if we put the offense in 2nd/3rd and longs. For those that didn't read the article from last year, we were solid at pressuring QBs last year but our secondary couldn't hold up. Stopping the run and covering are so much more of a concern than Bettcher dialing up pressures. I think people forget how bad we were at stopping the run last year.

I agree with this x1000. Ranan wrote an article in Jan 2019 about how Betcher wasn’t able to do with the defense what he sought out to do. During his tenure with the Cardinals they were top 10 defense 3 straight years and top 5 in blitz rate all 3 seasons. Giants were in bottom 3rd in the league in blitz rate, somewhere in the 20s. It’s tough to blitz if you are having trouble covering, and it’s harder to cover when offenses can successfully run the ball on you and attempt manageable down and distances to convert.

...I'm very excited about Lo Carter in Year Two! He made huge strides in college and I expect the same in the pros.

But, overall, I feel the same way about our pass rush as I do about our Center, Jon Halapio. There's too much unwarranted optimism IMO. We're just gonna have to wait and see.

Then x-man is our only hope for backup which is decent....still would of preferred Josh Allen though

Knew about OTA's but I didn't know about the 90 minute allowance. Appreciate all you do.

Will be stars in this defense. If we get anything close to Golden pre-injury, this defense is going to surprise a lot of people.

O.X. another player to watch ... not the “freak” athlete but by all accounts his technique / pass rush repertoire is NFL-ready. He can really make or break this draft class.

Wouldn’t shock me if this defense started playing lights out in the 2nd half of this season ... with some youth blunders in the secondary along the way

To Vernon coming out of Miami, on top of that I think he’s one of the more advanced pass rushers coming out. The interview with his college coach he spoke about how it became obvious that Oshane was going to get double teamed in every game he played, and that to succeed he’d have to learn how beat double teams, which he did. I think he will definitely work his way into the rotation this year.You never know with rookies, but given his experience and work ethic and production and the fact that there is t exactly a log jam of players ahead of him I’d be surprised if he didn’t work his way into the rotation.

In comment 14446990 BSIMatt said:

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To Vernon coming out of Miami, on top of that I think he’s one of the more advanced pass rushers coming out. The interview with his college coach he spoke about how it became obvious that Oshane was going to get double teamed in every game he played, and that to succeed he’d have to learn how beat double teams, which he did. I think he will definitely work his way into the rotation this year.You never know with rookies, but given his experience and work ethic and production and the fact that there is t exactly a log jam of players ahead of him I’d be surprised if he didn’t work his way into the rotation.

Vernon, interesting comp

Yannick Ngakoue is also nearly identical, in terms of stature/athleticism. I believe both were 3rd rounders as well ...
Y.N. / O.X. ? - ( New Window )

that's the leap I think a lot of fans expect, and from Carter it's still a significant unknown. I believe Peppers will be an impact player, he's shown the flashes.

That's another good comparison. All 3 were 3rd rounders and all seem right in that size/frame/athleticism spectrum. Vernon was a little bigger at 262, Xman and Ngakoue right in the low 250s. Ximines with a decent edge in the 3 cone over the other two is impressive.

In comment 14447449 JonC said:

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that's the leap I think a lot of fans expect, and from Carter it's still a significant unknown. I believe Peppers will be an impact player, he's shown the flashes.

I don't know how many expect to have stars, but it's interesting to think about and might make a good thread of its own.

Meanwhile, while I think hoping for star power out of anyone is being optimistic, there are some who would seem to be legitimate candidates for star status. Here's my list, with notes on the side.

1. Janoris Jenkins (Admittedly he will be 31 in October and age may be catching up to him. All the talent behind him might help to motivate him to do his best, given the uncertainty of his future with the NYG and possible FA status sooner rather than later. He's the closest thing to a proven star we have though.)

2. Jabrill Peppers (Young vet, tons of athletic ability and experience all over the football field. Has yet to turn that into consistent production in the NFL, but undoubtedly has ability.)

3. Dexter Lawrence (A rookie, but one who was very highly regarded. DT is not a position one usually dominates in during their rookie year however.)

4. Deandre Baker (Another rookie, one without top-end speed. Still a highly regarded prospect who has big-game experience and was thought very highly of.)

5. BJ Hill (Sophomore at a position where players often improve in that season. Far from a star last year, but flashes of excellence were more frequent as the year went on. Arrow's definitely pointing up for him.)


That's about it for normal optimism in my opinion. Maybe a case can be made for Tomlinson as well. He's very young and he's had some flashes, so who knows. All others have big enough question marks that becoming a star this year anyway would be a significant surprise to everyone but the most optimistic Giants fanatics.

Having said that - if 3 of these 5 can have star-quality seasons and the other two could be solid starters, we'll be off to a good start to rebuilding our defense.