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NFT: Ladies and Gentleman, your next Batman is...

Hsilwek92 : 5/16/2019 9:29 pm
This guy

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Into the Spider-Verse  
RobCarpenter : 5/17/2019 11:48 am : link
Showed that it's possible to make a fresh superhero film.

And as to the "Hollywood just makes garbage" - with all the streaming services that exist, there is a ton - and I mean, a ton - of content that never sees a wide release. As Chris in Philly says, you just have to look for it. And it's not hard - it's not like the 80s when you could only see these types of films at the Angelika.

RE: I dont think many of you understand  
sjnyfan : 5/17/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14447126 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
How the free market works.

They make more because the market demands it. They will stop making them when the market demabds it. Like Westerns. The market will always go where the money is. Right now its in superhero movies.

There is no too much superheroes or a reasonable amount. Its what the market will bear.

And clearly there is a huge demand for it right now.

What you are really complaining about is the market is not going where your intetest lies. In movies at least.

Which is ironic

Considering this is a website dedicated to talking about football. There are plenty of people who think there is way too much football and want to see it reduced in prominence or even gone. Back in the day you used to have just Sunday day games, thats it. Then MNF, then Saturday games, Thanksgiving, Thursday, SNF, prime time drafts, etc etc Round the clock TV networks and even websites.

Both are forms of entertainment. Dont be so quick to want to run out what other people find entertaining and you dont. Maybe what you find entertaining will be next in line.


+1000
twostepgiants  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 11:54 am : link
I think there is demand for being entertained. People still like to go out on the town and do something fun like going to the movies. When the movie industry is awash in crap, the options are to sit home or go with the least crappy movies.

In other words, if there were great movies being made, the audience would gravitate to them.

I'm a huge fan of action movies. I grew up on stuff like Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Terminator, etc. Great movies.

But only is the genre is being overplayed, the action movies now seem to be more special effects/CGI than story telling.


******

Chris, I've argued many times in the past that the quality of the streaming services is much superior to what's out there in theaters. Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc. is just better. But man, just try to find a "good" recent movie that eventually migrates from the theater to Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu - it's tough. I find myself watching older movies again because I can't find anything. I actually cut out Netflix because there wasn't anything interesting.

Like I said, every now and then something comes out that I enjoy. My son is in the band and he enjoys musicals. He put on "The Greatest Showman" and I thought that was well done. I thought "Dunkirk" was interesting, not just because of the subject matter, but the unique way the story was told.

I love trailers. And from an early age well into my 30s, when I saw trailers for movies, my reaction would be "Man, I got to see that!" I don't do that anymore. I actually find myself laughing at the trailers more often than not.
I think a lot of it has to do with options  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2019 11:58 am : link
you said it yourself that the big action movies from the 70's and 80's were must see. I'd argue if they came out now they too would be lumped into "just another summer blockbuster" territory.

Its no different than me with Football. I simply find that the games aren't as good anymore and a lot of that is oversaturation, and my ability to do something else that's arguably more entertaining on Sunday afternoons.

But back to the main point, there's almost endless amounts of great content out there, don't expect to see a commercial for it, though.
Heisenberg  
Klaatu : 5/17/2019 12:03 pm : link
Quote:
OK, I see what you might mean. I'll say that it doesn't look good to me, mostly because that's some of the most wooden acting I've ever seen in the trailer of a show and the lead is a bad actress. Now I see why they didn't have her talk in John Wick 2.

On the other hand, instead of complaining about it being SJW, then you may just want to consider if you have to be the target audience of every comic book movie/tv show that gets made. If you're feeling excluded by it being a young, apparently lesbian batwoman, I get it. But lots of folks have been excluded by "bruce wayne, millionaire playboy" for 80 years. If you aren't into it, don't watch it - there's effectively an infinite amount of other good tv shows to watch right now. And the good news is if you're right that they are making a marketing mistake then it will fail and you'll undoubtedly get another reboot that might be something you enjoy.


That's just it, they keep rebooting the same crap with the same themes and they keep on failing. They never learn from their mistakes anymore. Captain Marvel has been rebooted five times and her books still don't sell. If you think her solo movie would have made money if it wasn't sandwiched between Infinity Wars and Endgame, think again, because no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel movie, and if they're now going to make her the leader of the Avengers they might as well just pack it in now and save themselves the trouble.

As for Batwoman, they're not making it to attract a niche audience that might have felt left out of other superhero features (they've been looking for that audience for about ten or twelve years now and still haven't found it). They're making it so they can get praised by their peers for their "wokeness," for their genuflecting at the altars of diversity and intersectionality. They're making it so they can read gushing fanboy/girl stories in The Mary Sue about how progressive they are. In the process, they're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The same thing is happening with Star Trek, Star Wars, and Dr. Who. These franchises used to be licensed to print money, but now they're experiencing all kinds of turmoil as SJW rot infected their creators as well as their critics.

I'm going to stop here because I don't want to get banned again for talking politics and this is getting too political.

Peace out, as my fellow kids say.
This thread  
RobCarpenter : 5/17/2019 12:08 pm : link
RE: RE: I'm tired of people complaining about too many superhero movies  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/17/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14446811 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14446792 Gary from The East End said:


Quote:


There were nine superhero movies released last year. Nine.

There were hundreds of movies released in 2018 that had no superheroes whatsoever.



Three would have been too many. It's getting ridiculous.

All Hollywood produces now is mindless action flicks, I assume due to concern about the international market and the dearth of new ideas. Throw in all of the reboots, sequels, prequels, remakes, etc. and it's just appalling.

"But people are still going to the movies....blah, blah, blah." Yeah, it's because the the under 40-50 crowd doesn't know any better.

Same lack of artistic excellence is appearing in other fields too, like music. Bland and monotonous. Everything sounds the same with a few exceptions.

I think this is just what it means to get old. If the content being produced doesn't appeal to you, it might just mean that it wasn't intended to appeal to you. But it's definitely appealing to some people, in high enough numbers to justify the rinse/repeat behavior from the movie/music/whatever industries.

That said, the artistic excellence absolutely still exists, it's just not particularly profitable, so there isn't the same marketing for it. You have to seek it out for yourself (whatever that artistic excellence may be for you); there isn't going to be a Super Bowl ad [or insert any popular mainstream marketing vehicle here] for it.

Also, I think you might be blending artistic excellence with originality. Not all excellence is original, and it never has been. For example, many people would consider West Side Story to be an excellent movie (or stage production), despite the fact that it's a blatant rip-off of Romeo & Juliet. The Godfather borrowed (in a more subtle way than West Side Story) from Macbeth. Elvis Presley borrowed from Chuck Berry.

Things can simultaneously be excellent and unoriginal.
Gatorade Dunk  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 12:42 pm : link
The hole in that argument is that I was a child of the 1980s. But there are movies from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s that I like. I also didn't have as big of a problem with movies in the 1990s.

The shift to international markets is undeniable. And I would guess that fear is greater now than ever before of financial failure, therefore studios try to play it "safe" (ironically, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so).
The super hero movies  
sshin05 : 5/17/2019 12:49 pm : link
in general are hyped, marketed, talked about more often than other movies and so it seems to be this is the only thing going on. Non-superhero movies are being released all the time. Its' just that in this generation, the superhero movies are making a ton of money, they are not going to stop until people don't go/watch anymore. Eric, unfortunately, you might be in the minority at this point.
It sounds like you are still comparing  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2019 12:53 pm : link
or even confusing whatís available to see in theaters with whatís actually available as a whole. And Iím not sure why.
Is there a reason they change  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2019 12:55 pm : link
who plays Batman in each movie?

Maybe they should do it like a James Bond thing, where each guy gets an era.

I don't hate or like the super hero movies, I watch some I don't watch others, but I'm just wondering the reason they seemingly change Batman actors for each movie.

RE: The super hero movies  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14447267 sshin05 said:
Quote:
in general are hyped, marketed, talked about more often than other movies and so it seems to be this is the only thing going on. Non-superhero movies are being released all the time. Its' just that in this generation, the superhero movies are making a ton of money, they are not going to stop until people don't go/watch anymore. Eric, unfortunately, you might be in the minority at this point.


But my point is the non-superhero movies are actually the bigger problem. They are crap.

There is DEMAND for great story-telling and character development. We see that all of the time now with the streaming mini-series and shows... look at Chernobyl, Downton Abbey, Deadwood, again Game of Thrones, etc.

The QUALITY has suffered. Let me give you an ACTION example. Take Jaws. That movie is still a classic that uses great suspense. Would you have any confidence that that movie could be made today? I don't. Same with Psycho.

Hell can you imagine what a disaster "Wizard of Oz" would be today, especially using CGI? Look at what they did to "Willy Wonka" when they remade it!

RE: It sounds like you are still comparing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14447271 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
or even confusing whatís available to see in theaters with whatís actually available as a whole. And Iím not sure why.


Because I'm a fan of movies and I sorely miss sitting down for an hour and a half to three hours just to watch a great movie.
I think it just comes down to money  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2019 1:01 pm : link
and when said actor just wants to move on. Nolan didnít even want to make Dark Knight Rises, for example. They likely sign deals for 1 or 2 films then negotiate from there based on success/failure. Some guys get big and want to do other projects.
RE: Gatorade Dunk  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/17/2019 1:03 pm : link
In comment 14447260 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The hole in that argument is that I was a child of the 1980s. But there are movies from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s that I like. I also didn't have as big of a problem with movies in the 1990s.

The shift to international markets is undeniable. And I would guess that fear is greater now than ever before of financial failure, therefore studios try to play it "safe" (ironically, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so).

That's not the hole in the argument. You're arguing that liking things from the past when you were young is the same as liking things from the present when you're old; it's not.

For example, I know my parents complained that all the music I listened to as a kid sounded the same. I couldn't fathom how they could even suggest that the Beastie Boys and Run-DMC and RHCP and Public Enemy could even remotely be confused, but it was all just noise to them, despite my protestations.

And that's what's happening to our generation now, IMO.
RE: RE: It sounds like you are still comparing  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14447292 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14447271 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


or even confusing whatís available to see in theaters with whatís actually available as a whole. And Iím not sure why.



Because I'm a fan of movies and I sorely miss sitting down for an hour and a half to three hours just to watch a great movie.


The only thing that's changed is where you go to watch them. Unless your argument is that everything sucks. If that's the case than there's no point in arguing. I think content now is better than its ever been.
RE: RE: The super hero movies  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14447287 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14447267 sshin05 said:


Quote:


in general are hyped, marketed, talked about more often than other movies and so it seems to be this is the only thing going on. Non-superhero movies are being released all the time. Its' just that in this generation, the superhero movies are making a ton of money, they are not going to stop until people don't go/watch anymore. Eric, unfortunately, you might be in the minority at this point.



But my point is the non-superhero movies are actually the bigger problem. They are crap.

There is DEMAND for great story-telling and character development. We see that all of the time now with the streaming mini-series and shows... look at Chernobyl, Downton Abbey, Deadwood, again Game of Thrones, etc.

The QUALITY has suffered. Let me give you an ACTION example. Take Jaws. That movie is still a classic that uses great suspense. Would you have any confidence that that movie could be made today? I don't. Same with Psycho.

Hell can you imagine what a disaster "Wizard of Oz" would be today, especially using CGI? Look at what they did to "Willy Wonka" when they remade it!


But you keep using ďtheyĒ to remove any individual responsibility for crap. Yes, Willy Wonka was awful. That was Tim Burtonís fault, not Hollywoodís. With different filmmakers and actors, who knows? It all depends.

Jaws was a great movie. A landmark in cinema which just may have sucked if they had a working shark. But the broken shark forced Spielberg to keep the shark hidden for much of the film, and that is the source of its brilliance. I would put Fury Road up against just about any action movie ever made. And it was made with a minimum of CGI. Itís all in the talent behind the scenes.
RE: RE: Gatorade Dunk  
RobCarpenter : 5/17/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14447298 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14447260 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The hole in that argument is that I was a child of the 1980s. But there are movies from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s that I like. I also didn't have as big of a problem with movies in the 1990s.

The shift to international markets is undeniable. And I would guess that fear is greater now than ever before of financial failure, therefore studios try to play it "safe" (ironically, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so).


That's not the hole in the argument. You're arguing that liking things from the past when you were young is the same as liking things from the present when you're old; it's not.

For example, I know my parents complained that all the music I listened to as a kid sounded the same. I couldn't fathom how they could even suggest that the Beastie Boys and Run-DMC and RHCP and Public Enemy could even remotely be confused, but it was all just noise to them, despite my protestations.

And that's what's happening to our generation now, IMO.


Please don't lump all of us in Gen-X together. Personally I'm glad for all of the content I can access now. And it's much more convenient for me to watch a movie on my phone, or at home on my TV, than go to the theater.

And besides - some of the best Superhero content has been on Netflix (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Umbrella Squad, Punisher).
Gatorade Dunk  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:15 pm : link
I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.

I'm not going to be able to accept that a movie like "Star is Born" (to use Gman's example) is a better movie than "Real Window." It's not.

And I do think there are gems that came out after I got older, but they are simply harder to find... movies like Good Will Hunting, October Sky, Shawshank Redemption, Gladiator, Matrix, Napoleon Dynamite, Lincoln, Walk the Line, etc.
UConn4523  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:16 pm : link
No, it's not just where I watch them, but the TYPE of product. Watching a mini-series or multiple seasons of a show is a huge time commitment. I miss MOVIES.

I love the TV shows that are coming out now, but I want my movies back.
I'm talking about movies too  
UConn4523 : 5/17/2019 1:18 pm : link
there's lots of them. But that's just preference, I can't convince you something is good.
Chris  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:21 pm : link
I think the talent has shifted away from Hollywood (aka movie industry) to cable/streaming.

You and I usually see eye to eye on a lot of movies, and I saw a ton of people who liked Fury Road on this site. I didn't get the appeal. (But I'm also someone who didn't get the appeal No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood).
Another  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:23 pm : link
fairly recent movie that I loved was Grand Torino. And I may have to turn in my man card on this one, but I liked Lost in Translation.
RE: Heisenberg  
Heisenberg : 5/17/2019 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14447184 Klaatu said:
Quote:


Quote:


OK, I see what you might mean. I'll say that it doesn't look good to me, mostly because that's some of the most wooden acting I've ever seen in the trailer of a show and the lead is a bad actress. Now I see why they didn't have her talk in John Wick 2.

On the other hand, instead of complaining about it being SJW, then you may just want to consider if you have to be the target audience of every comic book movie/tv show that gets made. If you're feeling excluded by it being a young, apparently lesbian batwoman, I get it. But lots of folks have been excluded by "bruce wayne, millionaire playboy" for 80 years. If you aren't into it, don't watch it - there's effectively an infinite amount of other good tv shows to watch right now. And the good news is if you're right that they are making a marketing mistake then it will fail and you'll undoubtedly get another reboot that might be something you enjoy.



That's just it, they keep rebooting the same crap with the same themes and they keep on failing. They never learn from their mistakes anymore. Captain Marvel has been rebooted five times and her books still don't sell. If you think her solo movie would have made money if it wasn't sandwiched between Infinity Wars and Endgame, think again, because no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel movie, and if they're now going to make her the leader of the Avengers they might as well just pack it in now and save themselves the trouble.

As for Batwoman, they're not making it to attract a niche audience that might have felt left out of other superhero features (they've been looking for that audience for about ten or twelve years now and still haven't found it). They're making it so they can get praised by their peers for their "wokeness," for their genuflecting at the altars of diversity and intersectionality. They're making it so they can read gushing fanboy/girl stories in The Mary Sue about how progressive they are. In the process, they're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The same thing is happening with Star Trek, Star Wars, and Dr. Who. These franchises used to be licensed to print money, but now they're experiencing all kinds of turmoil as SJW rot infected their creators as well as their critics.

I'm going to stop here because I don't want to get banned again for talking politics and this is getting too political.

Peace out, as my fellow kids say.


Ok, well, You're right that no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel Movie. And it, like Ant Man and Guardians before it did not have folks clamoring for it but they went out and made a good movie. Now the Marvel brand is so strong that they could put out anything and it would get a chance. What they did with Captain Marvel is make a good movie that was successful and really popular with audiences. I guess you're saying that an avengers with her in the lead will fail. You could be right of course, especially if middle aged dudes get their panties in a twist over the fact that the first superman-level hero in the MCU is a woman and choose to stay home. You could say that's the consequence of "SJW rot". But from my perspective (and I see some signs here with the SJW and "mary sue" comments) that it also can be viewed as a bunch of dudes just having a tantrum.

And people don't make television shows to get praise. They make television shows to get viewers and subsequently get money. The praise is of course one way to get viewers. But that's not enough to keep people watching. It has to be a good show. If it's not a good show, then folks won't stick with it regardless of the genders of the heroes.
More superhero films please  
Knineteen : 5/17/2019 1:30 pm : link
Movies cost me time and money. Why should I risk that on something that I might not enjoy?

DC could cast Jesus Christ himself as Batman and people would complain about it. Don't like it, don't watch it.
RE: Another  
Knineteen : 5/17/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14447337 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
fairly recent movie that I loved was Grand Torino. And I may have to turn in my man card on this one, but I liked Lost in Translation.

2008 wasn't recent.
the funny thing about remakes and generations  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2019 1:34 pm : link
is many times the target audience doesn't even know they're remakes.

Some examples for me:
Cape Fear
Ocean's 11

there are literally probably hundreds of them.

My only problem is when remakes are made so close to the original like Total Recall. Maybe I'm just old, but it seems like that was pretty close in years to the original.

There are hundreds probably of Robin Hood and Three Musketeers movies. Cinderella (the story) has been done hundreds of times, as has freaky friday aka body swap movies or whatever incarnation of it gets released next where two people (mother and daughter, father and son, male and female switch bodies).

And maybe the most ironic comment in the thread is from Eric worried about a Wizard of Oz remake, when it fact Wizard of Oz is a remake.

point is remakes are not a new phenomenon because of hollywood laziness or lack of creativity, sometimes they can add something new to a story and improve it, but many times they do come out as a flat version of a once classic movie - they don't all work. I generally dislike sequels more than remakes - especially shit like Caddyshack II where there is no link to the original story and it's a clear cash grab.
RE: Chris  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14447330 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the talent has shifted away from Hollywood (aka movie industry) to cable/streaming.

You and I usually see eye to eye on a lot of movies, and I saw a ton of people who liked Fury Road on this site. I didn't get the appeal. (But I'm also someone who didn't get the appeal No Country for Old Men and There Will Be Blood).


There's no question that lots of talent is moving toward the small screen, because there is often a little more creative freedom because the financial risk can be lower upfront

But pick a film critic that you generally agree with and then look at their ten best lists at the end of the year. Chances are good you may have never heard of 4-5 on that list. Find those movies, because they are out there. They don't get the marketing budget, and the algorithms on the streaming services may not put them in front of you, but they are out there. I promise!

You're right, we generally do see eye to eye on most things entertainment. Which is how you should know I'm right. :)
RE: the funny thing about remakes and generations  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14447366 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is many times the target audience doesn't even know they're remakes.

Some examples for me:
Cape Fear
Ocean's 11

there are literally probably hundreds of them.

My only problem is when remakes are made so close to the original like Total Recall. Maybe I'm just old, but it seems like that was pretty close in years to the original.

There are hundreds probably of Robin Hood and Three Musketeers movies. Cinderella (the story) has been done hundreds of times, as has freaky friday aka body swap movies or whatever incarnation of it gets released next where two people (mother and daughter, father and son, male and female switch bodies).

And maybe the most ironic comment in the thread is from Eric worried about a Wizard of Oz remake, when it fact Wizard of Oz is a remake.

point is remakes are not a new phenomenon because of hollywood laziness or lack of creativity, sometimes they can add something new to a story and improve it, but many times they do come out as a flat version of a once classic movie - they don't all work. I generally dislike sequels more than remakes - especially shit like Caddyshack II where there is no link to the original story and it's a clear cash grab.


Or from this year - A Star is Born...
Knineteen  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/17/2019 1:40 pm : link
See how hard it is for me to find new gems? (grin)

Chris, I'm looking without a lot of success.

I've found a lot of cable/streaming gems simply by following recommendations on BBI. But I don't see a lot of recommendations on movies here... instead I see threads lamenting how bad the "Best Picture" nominees are even though the overall number has been expanded.

No more good comic book movies  
Jim in Forest Hills : 5/17/2019 1:46 pm : link
Did you all not like Endgame? I thought it was fantastic.
RE: Knineteen  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14447383 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
See how hard it is for me to find new gems? (grin)

Chris, I'm looking without a lot of success.

I've found a lot of cable/streaming gems simply by following recommendations on BBI. But I don't see a lot of recommendations on movies here... instead I see threads lamenting how bad the "Best Picture" nominees are even though the overall number has been expanded.


But remember, there have ALWAYS been turkeys in the best picture category. And they often won!
RE: RE: The super hero movies  
Canton : 5/17/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14447287 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14447267 sshin05 said:


Quote:


The QUALITY has suffered. Let me give you an ACTION example. Take Jaws. That movie is still a classic that uses great suspense. Would you have any confidence that that movie could be made today? I don't. Same with Psycho.


I don't know about another PSYCHO movie..

But 'Bates Motel', was an absolutely excellent series. The actor who has the lead role, in the Good Doctor, played Norman. I was saddened, when it went off the air.

Green Book  
GiantGrit : 5/17/2019 2:27 pm : link
Was good. I saw Avengers Endgame last night and it was solid. I thought they did a pretty good job of wrapping it up but iím a casual Marvel guy. If you wanna watch good movies, i recommend looking into which movies do well at some of the smaller indie festivals, sundance etc. seems like they go for quality more than trying to sell the movie to a mass audience.

I just watched Mandy, a psychedelic horror with of all people...Nick Cage. I thought it was excellent. So different from the generic crap i see. It was seriously dark but in a different way. Johan Johannson did the soundtrack, he also did Sicario. Sadly he passed recently.

Oddly enough iíve recently watched some excellent anime films. They do a phenomenal job of story telling. Stories are always unique. Never knew some were voiced over by popular American actors or that they were highly regarded here as well.
Aquaman, good movie  
GMAN4LIFE : 5/17/2019 2:35 pm : link
captain marvel- decent movie

endgame- solid movie

crazy rich asians- great movie

in the end, there are a ton of options. Hulu makes movies, Netflix and etc.

in the end, superhero movies are here to stay because disney just is printing money.DC will try to capture that now but need to find their thing.

reboots are a different animal. Oceans 11 was great but other reboots, not so much.
I feel like a Batman Beyond movie  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/17/2019 2:50 pm : link
would be perfect. I heard that rumor a while ago and was excited but it was shot down.

But that movie with Michael Keaton (not necessarily him but he'd be great) as an older Bruce in a somewhat Alfred role would be far more interesting to me than the same old.

The visuals of a futuristic Gotham would be great, and Bruce and Superman could both play a role.
RE: There's a couple different arguments here...  
Mr. Bungle : 5/17/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14447086 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:

2. "There are too many super hero movies." Stop going and they'll stop making them.

I never go to them.

They keep making them.
RE: RE: There's a couple different arguments here...  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14447512 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14447086 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:



2. "There are too many super hero movies." Stop going and they'll stop making them.


I never go to them.

They keep making them.


Yes, it's all about you and only you.
RE: RE: that's  
Mike in Long Beach : 5/17/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14446712 RicosRoidedElbow said:
Quote:
In comment 14446708 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


what we need... more superhero movies.



Because weirdo land (Hollywood) doesn't have any other fresh ideas


They do. But when a bunch of grown men are lining up for the Avengers and it makes Eleventy Billion dollars, you can't really fault Hollywood. It's our fault. They're just giving us what we're willing to pay for.

Stop seeing Super Hero movies and they'll stop making them.
RE:  
Mr. Bungle : 5/17/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14447155 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I actually find myself laughing at the trailers more often than not.

I swear there must be an explicit "recipe" for trailers these days, and the studios follow the recipe to a T.

Find me an action movie trailer that doesn't include a wash of sound that gets louder and louder, increasing in pitch until....

CUT TO BLACK AND SILENCE FOR 2 SECONDS

...then the trailer concludes with a final shot and the movie title.

When the promotional trailers don't even give a shit about looking unique anymore, that tells me a lot about the movies themselves.
RE: RE: RE: There's a couple different arguments here...  
Mr. Bungle : 5/17/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14447513 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14447512 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 14447086 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:



2. "There are too many super hero movies." Stop going and they'll stop making them.


I never go to them.

They keep making them.



Yes, it's all about you and only you.

Hey, don't blame me because your solution sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There's a couple different arguments here...  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14447527 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14447513 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


In comment 14447512 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 14447086 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:



2. "There are too many super hero movies." Stop going and they'll stop making them.


I never go to them.

They keep making them.



Yes, it's all about you and only you.


Hey, don't blame me because your solution sucks.


Right, you have a rally profound take on the topic. You are absolutely correct that if people stop buying tickets to see shit, they will continue to produce shit. That's definitely why the market is swamped with westerns and WWII movies.
RE: RE: RE: that's  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14447514 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
In comment 14446712 RicosRoidedElbow said:


Quote:


In comment 14446708 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


what we need... more superhero movies.



Because weirdo land (Hollywood) doesn't have any other fresh ideas



They do. But when a bunch of grown men are lining up for the Avengers and it makes Eleventy Billion dollars, you can't really fault Hollywood. It's our fault. They're just giving us what we're willing to pay for.

Stop seeing Super Hero movies and they'll stop making them.


No man, doesn't work like that. Mr. Bungle doesn't go, so that solution clearly won't work...
Honestly the internet has ruined trailers  
Jim in Forest Hills : 5/17/2019 3:11 pm : link
You can watch trailers instantly on youtube.

Back in the day, my friends and I bought tickets to watch the Matrix JUST to watch the Star Wars trailer. Who knew the Matrix would be the better movie.

Now with assigned seating, I hop in a little late so I can avoid the 25 mins of trailers and advertising.
Wow, I really wounded Chris.  
Mr. Bungle : 5/17/2019 3:14 pm : link
:(
RE: RE: Heisenberg  
Klaatu : 5/17/2019 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14447355 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 14447184 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Quote:


OK, I see what you might mean. I'll say that it doesn't look good to me, mostly because that's some of the most wooden acting I've ever seen in the trailer of a show and the lead is a bad actress. Now I see why they didn't have her talk in John Wick 2.

On the other hand, instead of complaining about it being SJW, then you may just want to consider if you have to be the target audience of every comic book movie/tv show that gets made. If you're feeling excluded by it being a young, apparently lesbian batwoman, I get it. But lots of folks have been excluded by "bruce wayne, millionaire playboy" for 80 years. If you aren't into it, don't watch it - there's effectively an infinite amount of other good tv shows to watch right now. And the good news is if you're right that they are making a marketing mistake then it will fail and you'll undoubtedly get another reboot that might be something you enjoy.



That's just it, they keep rebooting the same crap with the same themes and they keep on failing. They never learn from their mistakes anymore. Captain Marvel has been rebooted five times and her books still don't sell. If you think her solo movie would have made money if it wasn't sandwiched between Infinity Wars and Endgame, think again, because no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel movie, and if they're now going to make her the leader of the Avengers they might as well just pack it in now and save themselves the trouble.

As for Batwoman, they're not making it to attract a niche audience that might have felt left out of other superhero features (they've been looking for that audience for about ten or twelve years now and still haven't found it). They're making it so they can get praised by their peers for their "wokeness," for their genuflecting at the altars of diversity and intersectionality. They're making it so they can read gushing fanboy/girl stories in The Mary Sue about how progressive they are. In the process, they're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The same thing is happening with Star Trek, Star Wars, and Dr. Who. These franchises used to be licensed to print money, but now they're experiencing all kinds of turmoil as SJW rot infected their creators as well as their critics.

I'm going to stop here because I don't want to get banned again for talking politics and this is getting too political.

Peace out, as my fellow kids say.



Ok, well, You're right that no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel Movie. And it, like Ant Man and Guardians before it did not have folks clamoring for it but they went out and made a good movie. Now the Marvel brand is so strong that they could put out anything and it would get a chance. What they did with Captain Marvel is make a good movie that was successful and really popular with audiences. I guess you're saying that an avengers with her in the lead will fail. You could be right of course, especially if middle aged dudes get their panties in a twist over the fact that the first superman-level hero in the MCU is a woman and choose to stay home. You could say that's the consequence of "SJW rot". But from my perspective (and I see some signs here with the SJW and "mary sue" comments) that it also can be viewed as a bunch of dudes just having a tantrum.

And people don't make television shows to get praise. They make television shows to get viewers and subsequently get money. The praise is of course one way to get viewers. But that's not enough to keep people watching. It has to be a good show. If it's not a good show, then folks won't stick with it regardless of the genders of the heroes.


Ant-Man and Wasp were charter members of the Avengers, and it was a natural fit which no one objected to. Guardians of the Galaxy has been a superhero team in various incarnations since 1969. They did not have to be shoe-horned into the series. And if you think it's just "middle-aged dudes" who object to this stuff, you really don't know anything about the core audience...the fans who buy the books, the merch, the tickets. Captain Marvel has a audience score of 56% on Rotten Tomatoes. It wasn't a good movie, and, as I said before, it's only "popular" because it was sandwiched in between Infinity War and Endgame. Watch what happens when Captain Marvel doesn't have those two crutches to lean on. It has nothing to do with her being a woman (fans have been clamoring for a Black Widow movie for years, and I'd love to see a She-Hulk, A-Force movie), it has everything to do with her being a poorly written character played by an unlikable actress, and a story line that was an insult to anyone even vaguely familiar with the Avengers.

One of the problems with Marvel is that they don't really have a well-known, popular, stand-alone female character like DC has with Wonder Woman. Almost all of the best female Marvel superheroes are part of a team, like Jean Grey, Storm, and Rogue with the X-Men. So, they had to create this newest version of Captain Marvel out of thin air because they wanted their own stand-alone female superhero to eventually lead the Avengers. The problem is that just as with Rey in Star Wars, they made her a "Mary Sue." You may not like the term, but it fits. Her backstory was ridiculous, and in order to build her up they had to tear down everyone of substance around her (especially Nick Fury). To top it off, the actress they chose for the role did nothing to endear herself to the fanbase. In fact, she went out of her way to insult and annoy that base. That's no way to sell merch (and that's where the real money is if you remember your Spaceballs).

Finally, all you have to do is read some of the most recent statements from folks like Kevin Feige, Greg Berlanti, and Andrew Kreisberg. They're all about promoting diversity and inclusion now. Everything else is secondary - characters, story lines, canon - as long as their messages get out. They'll keep getting financing because the people writing the checks think the same way they do. They live in the same bubble, walk the same red carpets. Why do you think the Captain Marvel comic book series keeps getting rebooted even though every new series is an abysmal failure? Why do you think we've got "woke" Batwoman when "woke" Supergirl is crapping out? It's a damned shame.
RE: Wow, I really wounded Chris.  
Chris in Philly : 5/17/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14447534 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
:(


Not wounded, just surprised. I didn't expect stupidity from you...
RE: RE: RE: Heisenberg  
Heisenberg : 5/17/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14447536 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14447355 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 14447184 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Quote:


OK, I see what you might mean. I'll say that it doesn't look good to me, mostly because that's some of the most wooden acting I've ever seen in the trailer of a show and the lead is a bad actress. Now I see why they didn't have her talk in John Wick 2.

On the other hand, instead of complaining about it being SJW, then you may just want to consider if you have to be the target audience of every comic book movie/tv show that gets made. If you're feeling excluded by it being a young, apparently lesbian batwoman, I get it. But lots of folks have been excluded by "bruce wayne, millionaire playboy" for 80 years. If you aren't into it, don't watch it - there's effectively an infinite amount of other good tv shows to watch right now. And the good news is if you're right that they are making a marketing mistake then it will fail and you'll undoubtedly get another reboot that might be something you enjoy.



That's just it, they keep rebooting the same crap with the same themes and they keep on failing. They never learn from their mistakes anymore. Captain Marvel has been rebooted five times and her books still don't sell. If you think her solo movie would have made money if it wasn't sandwiched between Infinity Wars and Endgame, think again, because no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel movie, and if they're now going to make her the leader of the Avengers they might as well just pack it in now and save themselves the trouble.

As for Batwoman, they're not making it to attract a niche audience that might have felt left out of other superhero features (they've been looking for that audience for about ten or twelve years now and still haven't found it). They're making it so they can get praised by their peers for their "wokeness," for their genuflecting at the altars of diversity and intersectionality. They're making it so they can read gushing fanboy/girl stories in The Mary Sue about how progressive they are. In the process, they're killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

The same thing is happening with Star Trek, Star Wars, and Dr. Who. These franchises used to be licensed to print money, but now they're experiencing all kinds of turmoil as SJW rot infected their creators as well as their critics.

I'm going to stop here because I don't want to get banned again for talking politics and this is getting too political.

Peace out, as my fellow kids say.



Ok, well, You're right that no one was clamoring for a Captain Marvel Movie. And it, like Ant Man and Guardians before it did not have folks clamoring for it but they went out and made a good movie. Now the Marvel brand is so strong that they could put out anything and it would get a chance. What they did with Captain Marvel is make a good movie that was successful and really popular with audiences. I guess you're saying that an avengers with her in the lead will fail. You could be right of course, especially if middle aged dudes get their panties in a twist over the fact that the first superman-level hero in the MCU is a woman and choose to stay home. You could say that's the consequence of "SJW rot". But from my perspective (and I see some signs here with the SJW and "mary sue" comments) that it also can be viewed as a bunch of dudes just having a tantrum.

And people don't make television shows to get praise. They make television shows to get viewers and subsequently get money. The praise is of course one way to get viewers. But that's not enough to keep people watching. It has to be a good show. If it's not a good show, then folks won't stick with it regardless of the genders of the heroes.



Ant-Man and Wasp were charter members of the Avengers, and it was a natural fit which no one objected to. Guardians of the Galaxy has been a superhero team in various incarnations since 1969. They did not have to be shoe-horned into the series. And if you think it's just "middle-aged dudes" who object to this stuff, you really don't know anything about the core audience...the fans who buy the books, the merch, the tickets. Captain Marvel has a audience score of 56% on Rotten Tomatoes. It wasn't a good movie, and, as I said before, it's only "popular" because it was sandwiched in between Infinity War and Endgame. Watch what happens when Captain Marvel doesn't have those two crutches to lean on. It has nothing to do with her being a woman (fans have been clamoring for a Black Widow movie for years, and I'd love to see a She-Hulk, A-Force movie), it has everything to do with her being a poorly written character played by an unlikable actress, and a story line that was an insult to anyone even vaguely familiar with the Avengers.

One of the problems with Marvel is that they don't really have a well-known, popular, stand-alone female character like DC has with Wonder Woman. Almost all of the best female Marvel superheroes are part of a team, like Jean Grey, Storm, and Rogue with the X-Men. So, they had to create this newest version of Captain Marvel out of thin air because they wanted their own stand-alone female superhero to eventually lead the Avengers. The problem is that just as with Rey in Star Wars, they made her a "Mary Sue." You may not like the term, but it fits. Her backstory was ridiculous, and in order to build her up they had to tear down everyone of substance around her (especially Nick Fury). To top it off, the actress they chose for the role did nothing to endear herself to the fanbase. In fact, she went out of her way to insult and annoy that base. That's no way to sell merch (and that's where the real money is if you remember your Spaceballs).

Finally, all you have to do is read some of the most recent statements from folks like Kevin Feige, Greg Berlanti, and Andrew Kreisberg. They're all about promoting diversity and inclusion now. Everything else is secondary - characters, story lines, canon - as long as their messages get out. They'll keep getting financing because the people writing the checks think the same way they do. They live in the same bubble, walk the same red carpets. Why do you think the Captain Marvel comic book series keeps getting rebooted even though every new series is an abysmal failure? Why do you think we've got "woke" Batwoman when "woke" Supergirl is crapping out? It's a damned shame.


1) Captain Marvel made over a billion dollars, more than twice what charter Avenger Ant Man made. And when she arrived at the end of Endgame, people in the theater I was in cheered.

2) The rotten Tomatoes score is a weak way to say the movie was bad, when it's well known there was a campaign to torpedo that score before it even opened by folks who are mad that she got her own movie.

Look man, I can tell from the phrases you've used here that we won't agree about much, if any, of this stuff. It's Friday! Cheers!

RE: RE: GMAN4LIFE  
madgiantscow009 : 5/17/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14446929 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14446907 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Also, I have nothing against superhero movies.

The first "Superman" movie (1978) was great. So were the first Batman (1989) and Spiderman (2002) movies. But how many sequels and reboots are enough? C'mon. These movies don't even seem special anymore.




Maybe not to you, but to the legions of comic book fans, they're as "special" as the next issue of their favorite comic book.


marvel and disney are killing the comic book industry.
only because  
HomerJones45 : 5/17/2019 4:30 pm : link
Quote:
1) Captain Marvel made over a billion dollars, more than twice what charter Avenger Ant Man made. And when she arrived at the end of Endgame, people in the theater I was in cheered.
.

Everyone thought "ok finally, here is someone to kick Thanos' ass". She turned out to be a bitter disappointment when he swatter her like an insect.
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