OBJ v. Colin Cowherd

In comment 14447001 Greg from LI said:

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I always assumed you were already in league with Mephistopheles.

OBJ was a me first improve my brand type guy. That's why I was advocating memeing into reality obj trade.

is something new that "sensitive snowflake" millennials do? Holy crap. You all are obsessed.

I definitely don’t think he’s the reason we lost. But he also contributed to a culture that isn’t conducive to winning. I think that was DG’s purpose for trading him.

It’s a NY Giants message board on a slow May football news day. Relax.

In comment 14447117 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14447110 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 14447106 ron mexico said: Quote: very talented but polarizing. Some say me first type of guys. He ended up with two rings Perhaps, but OBJ hasn't even won a playoff game. Neither did Deon till he left Atlanta

my bad, he won one playoff game in his 5 years with the falcons

But Deion won on stacked 49ers and Cowboys teams. The situation, so far, is a little different in Cleveland.

He's not getting the ball as much as he'd like, then watch out kicking nets and end zone celebrations.

In comment 14447132 Keaton028 said:

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But Deion won on stacked 49ers and Cowboys teams. The situation, so far, is a little different in Cleveland.

we shall see.

They look pretty talented to me.

Has been that way since the beginning of sports I'm sure.

Yes, it was OBJ's fault we sucked most of the time he was here. It was his fault the defense gave up so many 4th quarter leads. It was his fault our OL sucked. It was his fault Vernon could never stay healthy.

Watch out Saquon, when we don't win this year it's going to be YOUR fault!

potential. A lot of inexperience. They need guys to step up and lead, and set the culture in that locker room.

the worst thing a Giants player can do is set high expectations.

I think thats why Eli is so beloved, the slow burn leading up to the 2007 -2011 window didn't give fans a change to set unrealistic expectations.

Thats a bit disingenuous. We as fans single out players. The Giants haven’t placed the blame on one player evidenced by the fact they’ve made large scale sweeping changes. Your criticism is more accurate about fans of losing teams.

In comment 14447138 Tesla said:

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Has been that way since the beginning of sports I'm sure. Yes, it was OBJ's fault we sucked most of the time he was here. It was his fault the defense gave up so many 4th quarter leads. It was his fault our OL sucked. It was his fault Vernon could never stay healthy. Watch out Saquon, when we don't win this year it's going to be YOUR fault!

Ha, you've had no problem heaping all of that on Eli Manning without those excuses.

is that Saquon is a good locker-room presence and leader.

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In comment 14447138 Tesla said:

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Has been that way since the beginning of sports I'm sure. Yes, it was OBJ's fault we sucked most of the time he was here. It was his fault the defense gave up so many 4th quarter leads. It was his fault our OL sucked. It was his fault Vernon could never stay healthy. Watch out Saquon, when we don't win this year it's going to be YOUR fault!

That's weird. That's usually what we say to you, except subbing in ELi for OBJ.

I don't remember Larry Fitzgerald ever getting blamed for bad years the Cardinals had when he was their best player or close to it.

I don't hate Eli or think he was our biggest problem.

I just don't fantasize about him in the ways you do.

In comment 14447156 arcarsenal said:

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I don't remember Larry Fitzgerald ever getting blamed for bad years the Cardinals had when he was their best player or close to it.

thats because no one cares about the cardinals

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In comment 14447160 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14447156 arcarsenal said: Quote: I don't remember Larry Fitzgerald ever getting blamed for bad years the Cardinals had when he was their best player or close to it. thats because no one cares about the cardinals

Ah, okay - so this only applies to major market/popular teams now.

Got it.

In comment 14447143 ron mexico said:

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the worst thing a Giants player can do is set high expectations. I think thats why Eli is so beloved, the slow burn leading up to the 2007 -2011 window didn't give fans a change to set unrealistic expectations.

Jesus. The guy won two super bowls.

If Saquon continues being Saquon, he won't be blamed for anything. Giants fans aren't stupid about their football.

If you can't see that Odell has brought most of this upon himself, then I don't think you are looking at this objectively.

That does not mean he (and Cleveland) can't be successful. But there are clear warning signs there. Odell's teammates love him, but I wonder how important the concept of team really is to him. It gets to the point where you just want to shake the kid and say, "Just shut up and play."

about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning?

I don't follow him. Thought Cowherd's top 10 moments is a good summary of why OBJ got traded. Nothing against OBJ, hope he has a great career. Cowherd is providing entertainment. I thought it was funny.

most will be happy. Probably a few will be disappointed he isn't breaking records.

But if he gets nicked up and has a few pedestrian seasons, the knives will come out.

In comment 14447174 Tesla said:

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about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning?

Because he hasn't made himself a target.

In comment 14447182 ron mexico said:

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most will be happy. Probably a few will be disappointed he isn't breaking records. But if he gets nicked up and has a few pedestrian seasons, the knives will come out.

If Saquon sucks on the field, he will be criticized for different reasons than why Odell is being criticized.

I agree that OBJ has brought a lot of this scrutiny on himself. 100%.

But I don't agree that "he's not a winning player" or any kind of BS like that. At least prior to his injury he was an absolute superstar. Our offense was like 6 points worse a game without him. He absolutely made us a much better team while he was here, even while smashing kicking nets and peeing in the end zone.

In comment 14447185 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14447174 Tesla said: Quote: about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning? Because he hasn't made himself a target.

I have to disagree 100% here Eric. It's because when teams don't win they blame their best players. How many times have we heard....well, we didn't win while he was here so how much worse could we be without him?

In comment 14447174 Tesla said:

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about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning?

Who is the highest paid receiver in the NFL? More scrutiny comes with $$$, and OBJ brings attention to himself with his behavior.

I think, like Deion, OBJ could be a winning player in the right environment. I’m not so sure the Browns are that environment.

that would dare try to defend Odell Beckham Jr.

What more needs to be said after watching him check out of the game against the Bears on a huge onside kick attempt late in that game and then ultimately check out of the rest of the season?

The guy is a flake, a loser. It's been obvious for so long it's comical now.

Compare Saquon's effort before the half against the bears that lead to 3 points and momentum with Odell's lack of effort on the onside kick.

In comment 14447191 Tesla said:

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I agree that OBJ has brought a lot of this scrutiny on himself. 100%. But I don't agree that "he's not a winning player" or any kind of BS like that. At least prior to his injury he was an absolute superstar. Our offense was like 6 points worse a game without him. He absolutely made us a much better team while he was here, even while smashing kicking nets and peeing in the end zone.

Odell is a stud on the football field. (Though if I am being honest, I didn't see that extra gear last year... that may be back this year).

The "issue" with him I think is the Giants found him "exhausting". And I have to admit as a fan, I did too. It's like these OBJ threads, they are exhausting.

The trade can do three ways:
(1) Giants end up looking stupid.
(2) Giants end up looking smart.
(3) Both teams end up doing well.

We'll have to see.

In comment 14447190 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14447182 ron mexico said: Quote: most will be happy. Probably a few will be disappointed he isn't breaking records. But if he gets nicked up and has a few pedestrian seasons, the knives will come out. If Saquon sucks on the field, he will be criticized for different reasons than why Odell is being criticized.

he wont have to suck. If he falls short of the HOF career everyone was promised, the fans will turn on him.

Just wait and see.

Wasn't OBJ a "winning player" when he was taking slants to the house for game winning touchdowns on a regular basis?

Or is it just a euphemism for guys who play on winning teams?

I wouldn't have traded him based on performance, but I also don't see the impact of him maybe distracting the coach and GM (and whoever else). But I agree that he was not responsible for us losing games (the onside kick notwithstanding) and I don't see how anyone could deny his talent.

I think that you can defend him against gratuitous shots and appreciating his talent while still recognizing the trade not only (probably) had to happen and that the return is potentially worthwhile

You wanna criticize OBJ for making a "business decision" on that onsides kick? Absolutely 100% fair. That was some weak shit.

But then you also have to criticize Eli for throwing himself on the ground whenever a defender came near him this past season. He sure made a hell of a lot of "business decisions" this past year (and I know he USED TO stand tall in the pocket and take a beating....but I'm talking about what happened last season).

In comment 14447215 Tesla said:

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You wanna criticize OBJ for making a "business decision" on that onsides kick? Absolutely 100% fair. That was some weak shit. But then you also have to criticize Eli for throwing himself on the ground whenever a defender came near him this past season. He sure made a hell of a lot of "business decisions" this past year (and I know he USED TO stand tall in the pocket and take a beating....but I'm talking about what happened last season).

Just answer the first thing that comes into your head, do you think Eli would, even last season, "make a business decision" om the one play that might win the game for the Giants?

In comment 14447215 Tesla said:

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You wanna criticize OBJ for making a "business decision" on that onsides kick? Absolutely 100% fair. That was some weak shit. But then you also have to criticize Eli for throwing himself on the ground whenever a defender came near him this past season. He sure made a hell of a lot of "business decisions" this past year (and I know he USED TO stand tall in the pocket and take a beating....but I'm talking about what happened last season).

I have seen some asinine comparisons on this site, but this takes the cake.

and not going for the ball vs. a QB giving himself up on a jailbreak?

You serious Clarke?

In comment 14447174 Tesla said:

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about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning?

He's not a superstar.

Beckham's leash is shorter than a guy like Eli's because of his antics and because he makes himself a lightning rod.

I think Barkley will get a pass for this year, especially with Eli still at QB, but if they don't make the postseason by the time his rookie deal is up, I'm sure people will be blaming him.

In comment 14447174 Tesla said:

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about how Sterling Shepard has never won a playoff game? Why doesn't he get more blame for our lack of winning?

Obviously apples vs oranges. Silly question.
But, interesting stat: over the last 2 years, Shepard has more catches and receiving yards than OBJ does.

Shep = 125 catches, 1603 yards
OBJ = 102 catches, 1354 yards

What does Eli have to gain by not going down when he's dead to rights at this point, anyway?

He's not outrunning anyone. I don't think it's as much a business decision for him as much as it's just common sense. He's slow as molasses. If a free rusher has him without a blocker, it doesn't really do him much good to try and fight off the tackle or run with the ball... unless we want to drastically increase our odds of a turnover or worse - an injury.

In comment 14447233 ZogZerg said:

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Obviously apples vs oranges. Silly question. But, interesting stat: over the last 2 years, Shepard has more catches and receiving yards than OBJ does. Shep = 125 catches, 1603 yards OBJ = 102 catches, 1354 yards

Games played: Shepard 27, Beckham 16, so....yeah

was the most poorly blocked kick i have ever seen. anyone who knows football sees a poorly coached team there- the play was fkd immediately ---pls give me a break with that- it wasnt a business decision it was a natural reaction to a jail break to hesitate at a guy running full speed.
enough with the sh$t on the fking kick.
tell me about the peeing, the boat, the kicking net, things that actually are real and happened --- but this kick is the biggeest load of shit. the blockers looked like guys from the movie neccessary roughness.

now that he's gone than their own team.

Odd.

In comment 14447236 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 14447233 ZogZerg said: Quote: Obviously apples vs oranges. Silly question. But, interesting stat: over the last 2 years, Shepard has more catches and receiving yards than OBJ does. Shep = 125 catches, 1603 yards OBJ = 102 catches, 1354 yards Games played: Shepard 27, Beckham 16, so....yeah

games lost due to injury from QB unable to throw basic 10 yard slant without being behind the player? games after OBJ injury that QB played bad enough to get benched for Geno Smith? i mean we can go so many ways to just make up sh$t and create narratives. there i created one. Eli got OBJ hurt and without him he couldnt even keep his job over Geno Smith.