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Have we discussed this scathing article on Mara/Gettleman?

FranknWeezer : 5/17/2019 2:36 pm
Quote:
If you had been bullish on this franchise at any point since it last won the Super Bowl in 2011, you would be lucky not to have gone bankrupt. The seven-year span that followed has yielded one playoff berth, zero division titles, and a 1-5-1 record toward the over on win totals.

Despite what the memes would have you believe, the primary reason that the Giants are an unsound investment — both emotionally for fans and financially for futures bettors — predates Gettleman.

Article: Mara/Gettleman are NYG's biggest culture problem - ( New Window )
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I agree  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/17/2019 4:34 pm : link
I think there is something inherently flawed with the co-ownership. Its set up like generals Varro and Paullus fighting Hannibal at Cannae. The hiring of two wco coordinators, forgettable Metlife stadium (with a big assist from W. Johnson), and in Tisch interviews he doesn't strike me as very knowledgeable or passionate about football.
I did like the part  
Bill L : 5/17/2019 4:36 pm : link
where he gave us actual quotes of what Mara and Reese and MacAdoo said to each other regarding the benching of Eli. I'm guessing that he had a bug in the room. Or maybe he's extremely clairvoyant.
Who the hell is this clown?  
montanagiant : 5/17/2019 4:38 pm : link
That whole article makes zero sense.

He has to be a BBI member
RE: Devil's advocate  
ron mexico : 5/17/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14447592 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Is it possible that John Mara is just exceptionally fortunate member of the lucky sperm club? Seriously. What have we seen under HIS tenure, that is proof positive that he's an effective owner? Where are exactly are HIS successes?

Someone held on to Reese way too long
Someone got McAdoo way wrong
Someone botched MetLife Stadium
Someone mishandled Eli's benching

All I'm saying is that since Wellington passed and EA's core roster phased, this franchise hasn't had much going for it.


I agree with this take.

I think his heart is in the right place but his batting average has been pretty poor.

And I don't like chris and John having 2-3rds of the say in the draft room.
Executive  
Red Dog : 5/17/2019 5:06 pm : link
This is the kind of article that should get the author fired for incompetence, but won't. In today's world, shoddy journalism is the norm, not the exception.

There are a few threads of a thought here that have a little merit, but most of it is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
The Eli benching debacle  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/17/2019 5:24 pm : link
definitely had Mara's fingerprints all over it, there's no denying that.

The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.
Well  
Festina Lente : 5/17/2019 5:49 pm : link
some factual errors in the article but some interesting points. It certainly gave me some things to think about. I am still adamant that the OBJ trade was ultimately down to Mara after he was (rightly) pissed off with the whole ESPN interview etc.
Shurmur  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/17/2019 6:14 pm : link
said Eli's job is to win games. I am sure Coach, DG and ownership are all on the same page as to expectations and when or if Jones goes in. I think it will be clear to everyone including ELI if that time comes imo.

Sorry  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/17/2019 6:15 pm : link
that was for when Jones should get in lol.
RE: The Eli benching debacle  
ron mexico : 5/17/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14447673 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
definitely had Mara's fingerprints all over it, there's no denying that.

The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.


There is more than speculation

The talk last year that each guy liked a different guy leads some credence there. I remember another article that talked about how chris John and the GM all have to agree on the pick.
There has never been a question  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/17/2019 7:20 pm : link
that they all collaborate. But none of us can say for certain what that looks like.
I don't know what's true and what's not  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/17/2019 7:23 pm : link
but anyone acting like it's an impossibility that this franchise could be mismanaged from the top has serious blue goggles on.
I would agree with that  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/17/2019 7:27 pm : link
.
Deep Blue Nailed it  
big canoe jeff : 5/17/2019 7:46 pm : link
The only reason why Young was hired was because Welly’s nephew Tim Mara finally stood up to his uncle and wanted to hire George Allen after years of shit then Rozelle finally had to mediate and hire George Young
When Tim Mara died went back to same shit along with new partner Tisch
RE: RE: The Eli benching debacle  
Diver_Down : 5/17/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14447711 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14447673 Sneakers O'toole said:


Quote:


definitely had Mara's fingerprints all over it, there's no denying that.

The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.



There is more than speculation

The talk last year that each guy liked a different guy leads some credence there. I remember another article that talked about how chris John and the GM all have to agree on the pick.


I believe it was a discussion with you that I came across a link to an article in which John was quoted as saying that he has final say on the first round picks. Now, it doesn't imply that John is holding court like Commodus in the Colosseum giving a thumbs up/down. But rather there is a consensus on all picks before hand. John isn't sending in the card with only his backing such as what is rumored to have happened with Haskins/Snyder in Washington. But it also implies that John can't claim ignorance on the bad picks (Flowers/Apple). After the first round, one can only speculate how involved John is in the draft. I presume that after the high picks are selected, he defers and trusts the staff to do their jobs.
Gettleman knows this is his last gig  
big canoe jeff : 5/17/2019 7:58 pm : link
What’s he suppose to do??
RE: the  
HomerJones45 : 5/18/2019 12:25 am : link
In comment 14447486 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"Who really is in charge?" section sounds like it would make sense. The problem is that same structure was in place when the Giants went to five Super Bowls, winning four.
The structure is one thing; how the players operate in it is quite another. Jawn started sticking his nose in when he insisted on trying to make another SB run to open the new ballpark when the re-build needed to start. Find comments prior to that akin to his musings about how come Jernigan isn't starting. This is back to pre-George Young operations.
RE: Shurmur  
HomerJones45 : 5/18/2019 12:28 am : link
In comment 14447699 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
said Eli's job is to win games. I am sure Coach, DG and ownership are all on the same page as to expectations and when or if Jones goes in. I think it will be clear to everyone including ELI if that time comes imo.
No one gives a shit what Shurmur says. He's lucky he's even a head coach. His job is to babysit and take order before he gets the inevitable heave-ho.
RE: An article about the Giants sucking for 7 years  
BigBlueinDE : 5/18/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14447591 mfsd said:
Quote:
that doesn't even mention how fucking terrible Reese and Ross did their jobs?


One of the first things I noticed myself. He's quick to blame Gettleman though even when wasn't here during the bulk of the downward spiral.
RE: This article  
BigBlueinDE : 5/18/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14447593 NYG007 said:
Quote:
looks like it was written by a 12 year old who just joined twitter.

Pure trash. The only thing I agree with is the Mara's are simply too loyal. However, that is also what makes them amazing human beings and why free agents come here.


Agreed. A fair criticism of Mara is that he held on to Reese and Ross for too long. They should have been dismissed earlier.
The team lost its chemistry and a lot of players got old.  
TMS : 5/18/2019 12:09 pm : link
We fired Gilbride and started to scramble for coaches and in personnel selection especially when Reese hired Ross. Mara is a weak owner without a clue about for building or sustaining a team. Coughlin was not a great personnel guy but a great coach. They should have moved on from the front office staff 3/4 years before they did.
The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
GeofromNJ : 5/19/2019 12:51 am : link
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
A powerful accurate QB arm can overcome  
Jimmy Googs : 5/19/2019 7:51 am : link
not having linebackers?
I'll read any article  
Glover : 5/19/2019 7:55 am : link
that supports my view that Mara and Gettelman suck. I think it is accurate to say that Gettelman is a YES man and JM has way too much say in personnel decisions. He tries to read into things that may or may not be there,but my problem with this article is how poorly it was written, some of the sentences make no sense.
There were certainly pros & cons in this article  
TheMick7 : 5/19/2019 8:03 am : link
The one thing that hit me was something I've been feeling the last few years-and that is,John is morphing into Wellington,the "bad"one! if you lived through those years,you understand exactly what I mean. Those years were an ultimate dumpster fire & only thanks to Rozelle & his insistence on George Young as GM,did we finally douse the flames! Now, I don't think this current administration has reached that point but there are times that John (who,up until the last few years I had complete faith in!) really seems to lean towards comfort and familiarity, especially after leaving his comfort zone & hiring McAdoo. Shurmur's personality is much more of one that embraces the "Giant Way"! Gettleman was the "safe",comfortable choice for John. Now the jury is out on Gettleman & ultimately,his choice of Jones will be the deciding factor. But,they have cleaned house of anything & anyone controversial in even the slightest way(Jackrabbit withstanding) & have tried to restore the past vanilla personality. This is not an entirely bad thing if those brought in as replacements bring a better result on the field. There are many points the author made that are questionable but the contention that decisions are being made by Gettleman & the Maras seems very likely. Despite not liking some of the choices made by Gettleman these past 2 years,I do believe he has us headed in the right direction but I do hope that John can stay in his lane & let the GM be the GM!
RE: The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
TrueBlue56 : 5/19/2019 8:14 am : link
In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.


Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.

You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.
RE: RE: The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
GeofromNJ : 5/19/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14448535 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.



Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.

You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.

Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.
RE: RE: RE: The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
TrueBlue56 : 5/19/2019 8:48 am : link
In comment 14448542 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14448535 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.



Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.

You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.


Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.


You do know that for their careers, roethlisberger has been sacked 501 times. Eli has been sacked 406 and Eli played in 16 more games than Ben. So tell me how a quarterback who has been sacked almost 100 more times than Eli would survive behind an even worse line than he ever had in his career?

As far as models and stewardesses being happy to accomadate Ben, there was plenty available in the college towns he was partying too, but that didn't deter him.
RE: The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
Bill L : 5/19/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.


I like the “once we won the two SB’s part”.

It’s the best example of “other than that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln” that I’ve ever seen on this site.

Seven small words that turn the entire paragraph into laughable dross.
Ben's off the field  
BigBlueCane : 5/19/2019 9:34 am : link
habbits and personality would have him arrested and kicked off the team.

Hmmm...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2019 11:49 am : link
really?

Quote:
The Maras are the problem. Period. End of Story. What this team needs is a George Steinbrenner type owner. What we got are a bunch of greedy, pusillanimous pretenders who just happen to be the owners.


For most of his tenure, Steinbrenner was a terrible owner. He meddled, fired people, overpaid mediocre players. With the way he spent money, the Yanks should have consistently won the World Series instead of having down periods.

The Yanks actually had a stretch similar to the one the Giants are going through.

And the parallel of having a Stein-like guy fails between baseball and football since one sport doesn't have a salary cap, so you really can't have an owner who outspends everyone.
I still fail to see  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/19/2019 12:01 pm : link
how we can say with confidence what kind of dynamic exists between Gettleman and the Mara's one way or another.

We know John is part of the conversation, but nothing more. When he disagrees with Gettleman does he impose his will, or relent to his football staff? How does anyone really know?
Yeah, You Got A Problem?  
DeepBlueJint : 5/19/2019 12:32 pm : link
In 37 years, George Steinbrenner took a laughing stock franchise from hell to glory. Won 7 World Series Championships, 12 American League Pennants/ Championships, loss in ALDS playoffs in 95,,97,05,06 and 11 (he just died the year before) and loss in ALCS in 04. That's 18 out of 37 years that the Yankees were at least in the playoffs. What do you expect? Every year in the playoffs?

He brought pride back to the Yankees. Jeter was once asked why he didn't just walk or trot from the ballpen to the dugout. He replied to Posada that he runs because George may be watching.

Yeah, he was emotional. Yeah, he sometimes overpaid players. But even when he fired them, he took care of them. That includes Billy Martin and that druggy pitcher he picked up off the wire from LA (Steve Howe) and gave him a second chance. And he was prolific in his PRIVATE charitable efforts, never accepting any public recognition, gratitude or awards to take care of the families of deceased fire, rescue and policemen. But of course you knew that.

Look at his free agents and trade pickups. Overall it is impressive with a number of Hall of Famers: Paul O'Neill, Scott Broscius, Mickey Rivers, Reggie Jackson, Chris Chambliss, Bucky F'n Dent, Graig Nettles, Willie Randolph, Rick Gossage, Tommy John, Dave Winfield, Rick Cerrone, Paul Blair, Jim Kaat, Gaylord Perry, Lou Pinella, Tipi Martinez, Dwight Gooden, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Wade Boggs, CC Sabathia, and Mark Texeira to name a few. Sure he had some mistakes. What do you expect a passionate, dedicated owner who is willing to take risks? I would stand up and compare his record across the board with any owner, ever.

And never mind that he brought in Joe Torre, a throw away manager doing TV commentating. And he brought in Joe Giradi as well.

And he kept his team in the Bronx and made the neighborhood safe to walk the streets anytime of day or night.

God bless George Steinbrenner. The Giants need an owner just like him; not the Maras or the Tischs.

Some would argue the foundation of the Yankee success in the late 90s  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/19/2019 1:47 pm : link
was helped along by George getting suspended for a year and letting Gene Michael actually run baseball.

The reality of Steinbrenner is that he did a lot of good and a lot of not so good, like felony obstuction of justice and paying off a bookie to try to blackmail dave winfield.
RE: RE: RE: The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on  
darren in pdx : 5/19/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14448542 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14448535 TrueBlue56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.



Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.

You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.


Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.


Did you really just say that a rapist wouldn’t rape because of access to women willing to have sex? Fuck off.
RE: I still fail to see  
jcn56 : 5/19/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14448654 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
how we can say with confidence what kind of dynamic exists between Gettleman and the Mara's one way or another.

We know John is part of the conversation, but nothing more. When he disagrees with Gettleman does he impose his will, or relent to his football staff? How does anyone really know?


I agree with this. Although I suspect that the author of this article is a lot more accurate than anyone wants to believe, I don't see how there's any way to know without being in the room.

One thing is for sure, as mentioned above - I don't like the fact that Chris Mara holds the position he does. It's not a shot at Mara necessarily, as I have no idea what his impact on the organization is in reality. It's that in what should be a split decision making system, 67% of the vote goes to the Maras. Can you imagine having to take a hard line stance against that?
jcn56  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/19/2019 2:45 pm : link
Yeah, that could be a difficult position to be in, no doubt.

Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.

He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.

RE: jcn56  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/19/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14448834 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
Yeah, that could be a difficult position to be in, no doubt.

Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.

He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.


Bingo.

The article is nothing but unfounded conjecture. Unlikely unfounded conjecture.
RE: jcn56  
jcn56 : 5/19/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14448834 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
Yeah, that could be a difficult position to be in, no doubt.

Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.

He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.


Or the flipside - he knew exactly what he was getting into, but given his age and the likelihood that he wouldn't get another job as a GM in the NFL, he took it figuring he could make it work.

I think that's a lot more likely than him imposing demands about his role onto Mara if he's as meddlesome as theorized.
I would certainly agree  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/19/2019 4:37 pm : link
that it's possible he went into the job accepting the fact that he would have to live with Mara interference. No way to rule it out.
There's really a lot of crazy shit..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2019 9:09 pm : link
going on in this thread. The comments on how we need an owner like Steinbrenner is just part of the cake. Nevermind the salary cap differences that would neutralize a lot of what Big George did - to say we need an owner like him is ridiculous.

But the icing is this nugget of laughable shit:

Quote:
The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on
GeofromNJ : 12:51 am : link : reply
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.


So the biggest mistake was drafting a QB who led two SB wins?

Holy fuckballs.
RE: There's really a lot of crazy shit..  
BigBlueShock : 5/19/2019 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14449177 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
going on in this thread. The comments on how we need an owner like Steinbrenner is just part of the cake. Nevermind the salary cap differences that would neutralize a lot of what Big George did - to say we need an owner like him is ridiculous.

But the icing is this nugget of laughable shit:



Quote:


The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on
GeofromNJ : 12:51 am : link : reply
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.



So the biggest mistake was drafting a QB who led two SB wins?

Holy fuckballs.

Not only that, but he’s lamenting the fact that we didn’t draft a rapist and guy that has driven every superstar from the team because of his bullshit attitude.

I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again. Giants fans are the worst fans on the planet. Second place isn’t close.
I'm just waiting...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/19/2019 10:24 pm : link
for somebody to say trading Rivers was a mistake too, because with his leadership, we'd not have gone 7 years with just 1 playoff appearance.

Even though Rivers went a stretch with 1 playoff appearance in 8 years......
RE: RE: jcn56  
TrueBlue56 : 5/20/2019 12:20 am : link
In comment 14448965 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14448834 Sneakers O'toole said:


Quote:


Yeah, that could be a difficult position to be in, no doubt.

Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.

He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.




Or the flipside - he knew exactly what he was getting into, but given his age and the likelihood that he wouldn't get another job as a GM in the NFL, he took it figuring he could make it work.

I think that's a lot more likely than him imposing demands about his role onto Mara if he's as meddlesome as theorized.


Gettleman got fired because the owner didn't allow Gettleman to do his job, but he is going to come here and be a puppet? Some of the ridiculousness that is spewed out is beyond comprehension.

Look at what Gettleman has done since he arrived. Tell me what move has John Mara written all over it. Keeping Eli? They just drafted his replacement. Turning over 90% of the roster? Trading away Beckham, Vernon, Apple and many other big players?

I am sure John Mara has given his input and at times given approval on certain moves like drafting Jones and trading Beckham, but almost every owner would do that. Wellington gave the approval for the Eli trade.

This team has Gettleman written all over it. He has rebuilt the offensive line, traded away players that didn't fit what He was looking for and accumulated multiple draft picks to get younger and he has drafted players that have been productive in college (and not necessarily measurables) or athletes.
TrueBlue..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 8:13 am : link
excellent points.

I don't know how people can look at the current roster and think that Mara has his imprint on it.

This is almost exactly the same tact Gettleman took in Carolina. Got rid of Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams as they aged. Cut Norman before he rested on SB laurels and became a distraction. Took hard stances on restructures for Jordan Gross, Olsen and Davis.

Not much has been different here, except the Giants inexplicably have a moronic portion of the fanbase whispering about ownership mandates, making personnel moves to appease the PR side of things, and that Gettleman is a puppet - the puppet who cut his own strings in Carolina.

Has baffled me from Day 1.
Mara has little impact other than signing  
Big Blue '56 : 5/20/2019 8:35 am : link
off on important things as ALL OWNERS DO.

This narrative has gained ridiculous legs on here and will NEVER CHANGE. Even if we win another SB soon, the narrative will ALWAYS be, “we won IN SPITE OF Mara.”
56, you talking about chris or John?  
ron mexico : 5/20/2019 8:38 am : link
?
RE: 56, you talking about chris or John?  
Big Blue '56 : 5/20/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14449511 ron mexico said:
Quote:
?


John
Fat man  
ron mexico : 5/20/2019 8:42 am : link
Was giving OBJ the big deal a move you would expect gettleman to do? A guy who preaches about running the ball?

Possibly, just maybe, Mara twisted his arm there?
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 8:51 am : link
anything surrounding Beckham is an anomaly.

Gettleman likes to keep young talent around. He didn't look to move Cam, Kuechly and others.

I think the plan was to keep OBJ and then there were several things last year that raised red flags to sour many in the organization.

But giving Beckham that contract wasn't un-Gettleman like. Neither was trading him once he likely had concerns about his future impact.

Ron Rivera once said that he and Gettleman were very much alike. That they both have strong opinions, but are willing to back down from them when proven incorrect. I think you can point to several things already in two years where Gettleman has done that here.

Omameah, trading Snacks and Apple after starting out 1-7, ending the Flowers experiment, and drafting Eli's replacement DESPITE an ownership mandate to build around him.....:)
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