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| If you had been bullish on this franchise at any point since it last won the Super Bowl in 2011, you would be lucky not to have gone bankrupt. The seven-year span that followed has yielded one playoff berth, zero division titles, and a 1-5-1 record toward the over on win totals. Despite what the memes would have you believe, the primary reason that the Giants are an unsound investment — both emotionally for fans and financially for futures bettors — predates Gettleman. |
He has to be a BBI member
Someone held on to Reese way too long
Someone got McAdoo way wrong
Someone botched MetLife Stadium
Someone mishandled Eli's benching
All I'm saying is that since Wellington passed and EA's core roster phased, this franchise hasn't had much going for it.
I agree with this take.
I think his heart is in the right place but his batting average has been pretty poor.
And I don't like chris and John having 2-3rds of the say in the draft room.
There are a few threads of a thought here that have a little merit, but most of it is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.
The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.
There is more than speculation
The talk last year that each guy liked a different guy leads some credence there. I remember another article that talked about how chris John and the GM all have to agree on the pick.
When Tim Mara died went back to same shit along with new partner Tisch
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definitely had Mara's fingerprints all over it, there's no denying that.
The idea that he, or Chris, currently overrides their GM is an interesting debate that goes on here quite often. But it's hard to know from the outside looking in. And really, this writer is just bouncing the idea around the same way we do here. There's no substance to it. It's just stuff to think about.
There is more than speculation
The talk last year that each guy liked a different guy leads some credence there. I remember another article that talked about how chris John and the GM all have to agree on the pick.
I believe it was a discussion with you that I came across a link to an article in which John was quoted as saying that he has final say on the first round picks. Now, it doesn't imply that John is holding court like Commodus in the Colosseum giving a thumbs up/down. But rather there is a consensus on all picks before hand. John isn't sending in the card with only his backing such as what is rumored to have happened with Haskins/Snyder in Washington. But it also implies that John can't claim ignorance on the bad picks (Flowers/Apple). After the first round, one can only speculate how involved John is in the draft. I presume that after the high picks are selected, he defers and trusts the staff to do their jobs.
One of the first things I noticed myself. He's quick to blame Gettleman though even when wasn't here during the bulk of the downward spiral.
Pure trash. The only thing I agree with is the Mara's are simply too loyal. However, that is also what makes them amazing human beings and why free agents come here.
Agreed. A fair criticism of Mara is that he held on to Reese and Ross for too long. They should have been dismissed earlier.
Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.
You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.
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Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.
You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.
Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.
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In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:
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Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.
You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.
Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.
You do know that for their careers, roethlisberger has been sacked 501 times. Eli has been sacked 406 and Eli played in 16 more games than Ben. So tell me how a quarterback who has been sacked almost 100 more times than Eli would survive behind an even worse line than he ever had in his career?
As far as models and stewardesses being happy to accomadate Ben, there was plenty available in the college towns he was partying too, but that didn't deter him.
I like the “once we won the two SB’s part”.
It’s the best example of “other than that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln” that I’ve ever seen on this site.
Seven small words that turn the entire paragraph into laughable dross.
For most of his tenure, Steinbrenner was a terrible owner. He meddled, fired people, overpaid mediocre players. With the way he spent money, the Yanks should have consistently won the World Series instead of having down periods.
The Yanks actually had a stretch similar to the one the Giants are going through.
And the parallel of having a Stein-like guy fails between baseball and football since one sport doesn't have a salary cap, so you really can't have an owner who outspends everyone.
We know John is part of the conversation, but nothing more. When he disagrees with Gettleman does he impose his will, or relent to his football staff? How does anyone really know?
He brought pride back to the Yankees. Jeter was once asked why he didn't just walk or trot from the ballpen to the dugout. He replied to Posada that he runs because George may be watching.
Yeah, he was emotional. Yeah, he sometimes overpaid players. But even when he fired them, he took care of them. That includes Billy Martin and that druggy pitcher he picked up off the wire from LA (Steve Howe) and gave him a second chance. And he was prolific in his PRIVATE charitable efforts, never accepting any public recognition, gratitude or awards to take care of the families of deceased fire, rescue and policemen. But of course you knew that.
Look at his free agents and trade pickups. Overall it is impressive with a number of Hall of Famers: Paul O'Neill, Scott Broscius, Mickey Rivers, Reggie Jackson, Chris Chambliss, Bucky F'n Dent, Graig Nettles, Willie Randolph, Rick Gossage, Tommy John, Dave Winfield, Rick Cerrone, Paul Blair, Jim Kaat, Gaylord Perry, Lou Pinella, Tipi Martinez, Dwight Gooden, Tim Raines, Darryl Strawberry, Wade Boggs, CC Sabathia, and Mark Texeira to name a few. Sure he had some mistakes. What do you expect a passionate, dedicated owner who is willing to take risks? I would stand up and compare his record across the board with any owner, ever.
And never mind that he brought in Joe Torre, a throw away manager doing TV commentating. And he brought in Joe Giradi as well.
And he kept his team in the Bronx and made the neighborhood safe to walk the streets anytime of day or night.
God bless George Steinbrenner. The Giants need an owner just like him; not the Maras or the Tischs.
The reality of Steinbrenner is that he did a lot of good and a lot of not so good, like felony obstuction of justice and paying off a bookie to try to blackmail dave winfield.
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In comment 14448486 GeofromNJ said:
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Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
Now this is pure comedy. What good is a strong arm if you have no time to throw and roethlisberger is not Michael Vick. No quarterback would have been able to overcome the Swiss cheese offensive line we had. Sure, roethlisberger may have been able to extend a few plays here and there, but nothing close to making an impact.
You also fail to mention that roethlisberger would have had one hell of a time in New York with the rape allegations and to a lesser extent the motorcycle accident.
Ben would have both avoided the rush and at times gained yards. Even today, despite the beating that he's taken, he's a step up from Eli. As for a motorcycle accident, this was not a predestined event that would have happened no matter where he was. Rape allegations? Not likely. NYC is full of would be models and stewardesses who would be happy to accommodate a 6'4" NFL quarterback.
Did you really just say that a rapist wouldn’t rape because of access to women willing to have sex? Fuck off.
We know John is part of the conversation, but nothing more. When he disagrees with Gettleman does he impose his will, or relent to his football staff? How does anyone really know?
I agree with this. Although I suspect that the author of this article is a lot more accurate than anyone wants to believe, I don't see how there's any way to know without being in the room.
One thing is for sure, as mentioned above - I don't like the fact that Chris Mara holds the position he does. It's not a shot at Mara necessarily, as I have no idea what his impact on the organization is in reality. It's that in what should be a split decision making system, 67% of the vote goes to the Maras. Can you imagine having to take a hard line stance against that?
Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.
He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.
Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.
He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.
Bingo.
The article is nothing but unfounded conjecture. Unlikely unfounded conjecture.
Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.
He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.
Or the flipside - he knew exactly what he was getting into, but given his age and the likelihood that he wouldn't get another job as a GM in the NFL, he took it figuring he could make it work.
I think that's a lot more likely than him imposing demands about his role onto Mara if he's as meddlesome as theorized.
But the icing is this nugget of laughable shit:
GeofromNJ : 12:51 am : link : reply
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
So the biggest mistake was drafting a QB who led two SB wins?
Holy fuckballs.
But the icing is this nugget of laughable shit:
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The biggest mistake the Giants made was drafting Eli and passing on
GeofromNJ : 12:51 am : link : reply
Roethlisberger. I know most Giants fans want to think that Eli's talent is the equal of Ben's and that Eli is a better human being. I'll grant the human being component, but Ben is far better than Eli in terms of playing the position. Given Ben's arm and mobility, the Giants would not have suffered that seven-year span of one playoff berth, zero division titles, and losing seasons if Roelithsberger had been our quarterback. Once the Giants won two SB's with Eli under center, they were stuck with him and his immobility. Yeah, I agree that Reese misjudged offensive linemen and refused to value linebackers, but a mobile QB with a powerful, accurate arm could have overcome those deficiencies. Unfortunately, Eli could not.
So the biggest mistake was drafting a QB who led two SB wins?
Holy fuckballs.
Not only that, but he’s lamenting the fact that we didn’t draft a rapist and guy that has driven every superstar from the team because of his bullshit attitude.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again. Giants fans are the worst fans on the planet. Second place isn’t close.
Even though Rivers went a stretch with 1 playoff appearance in 8 years......
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Yeah, that could be a difficult position to be in, no doubt.
Of course with Gettleman's prior knowledge of tge organization he not only would know what to expect, but could have taken a hardline stance about his role and level of control right in the interview process. In his position, I would have.
He's in the twilight years of his career, no reason to take a job where you are handcuffed by meddling ownership.
Or the flipside - he knew exactly what he was getting into, but given his age and the likelihood that he wouldn't get another job as a GM in the NFL, he took it figuring he could make it work.
I think that's a lot more likely than him imposing demands about his role onto Mara if he's as meddlesome as theorized.
Gettleman got fired because the owner didn't allow Gettleman to do his job, but he is going to come here and be a puppet? Some of the ridiculousness that is spewed out is beyond comprehension.
Look at what Gettleman has done since he arrived. Tell me what move has John Mara written all over it. Keeping Eli? They just drafted his replacement. Turning over 90% of the roster? Trading away Beckham, Vernon, Apple and many other big players?
I am sure John Mara has given his input and at times given approval on certain moves like drafting Jones and trading Beckham, but almost every owner would do that. Wellington gave the approval for the Eli trade.
This team has Gettleman written all over it. He has rebuilt the offensive line, traded away players that didn't fit what He was looking for and accumulated multiple draft picks to get younger and he has drafted players that have been productive in college (and not necessarily measurables) or athletes.
I don't know how people can look at the current roster and think that Mara has his imprint on it.
This is almost exactly the same tact Gettleman took in Carolina. Got rid of Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams as they aged. Cut Norman before he rested on SB laurels and became a distraction. Took hard stances on restructures for Jordan Gross, Olsen and Davis.
Not much has been different here, except the Giants inexplicably have a moronic portion of the fanbase whispering about ownership mandates, making personnel moves to appease the PR side of things, and that Gettleman is a puppet - the puppet who cut his own strings in Carolina.
Has baffled me from Day 1.
This narrative has gained ridiculous legs on here and will NEVER CHANGE. Even if we win another SB soon, the narrative will ALWAYS be, “we won IN SPITE OF Mara.”
John
Possibly, just maybe, Mara twisted his arm there?
Gettleman likes to keep young talent around. He didn't look to move Cam, Kuechly and others.
I think the plan was to keep OBJ and then there were several things last year that raised red flags to sour many in the organization.
But giving Beckham that contract wasn't un-Gettleman like. Neither was trading him once he likely had concerns about his future impact.
Ron Rivera once said that he and Gettleman were very much alike. That they both have strong opinions, but are willing to back down from them when proven incorrect. I think you can point to several things already in two years where Gettleman has done that here.
Omameah, trading Snacks and Apple after starting out 1-7, ending the Flowers experiment, and drafting Eli's replacement DESPITE an ownership mandate to build around him.....:)