since 2010, the Giants have had about 4 continuous starters come from pick 75 or later in the draft (including UDFA):
WR-Victor Cruz
LB-BJ Goodson
LB-Devon Kennard
PK-Aldrick Rosas
From 2001-2008 the Giants had
Rich Seubert
David Dieh*l
Gibril Wilson
Reggie Torbor
Derrick Ward
Mario Manningham
Brandon Jacobs
James Butler
Chase Blackburn
Justin Tuck*
Barry Cofield
Kevin Boss
Amed Bradshaw
Zak DeOssie
The Giants also really didn't miss on a high round pick from 2002-2008 outside of William Joseph.
Since 2010, we missed bad on Marvin Austin, David Wilson career ended, plus debacles in the form Ereck Flowers, Eli Apple, Owa Odighizuwa, Damontre Moore, JPP hand blown off, Ruben Randle, Davis Webb, Richburg,
We really only had meaningful contributions from Nicks, Linval (who we let go) Healthy JPP, Hankins (who we let go), OBJ, Collins.
Because of what Gettelman has done in the draft the past 2 seasons, I am quite optimistic about the way we're headed, I don't think he missed on anyone in '18 and i'm quite optimistic about his '19 class. We really need to see if some of his lower round picks and UDFA start to make a difference.
The Patriots for example and comparison, had some really elite players after pick 75 like (David Andrews
J.C. Jackson, Malcom Butler, Marcus Cannon, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers)
Jones, Barkley, Shepard, Engram, Hernandez, Hill, Tomlinson, Lawrence, Baker, Carter, Beal.
That's 11 starters, 9 across 2 drafts and without major investments in Free Agency.
Even 2 acquisitions from late round or waivers pans out, such as C.Coleman, Love, Ballentine, Slayton, Asafo-Adjei, Halapio, McIntosh, Ximenes, then we're hopefully going to be in a good cycle.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
Reese and the giants made some big mistakes, but to me the biggest mistake by far was promoting Ross and he proves it more and more with each interview he does with ESPN.
For the all the complicated analysis about how much this organization got wrong, in my mind so much of it is articulated in this post. They had a terrible decade of evaluations beyond rounds 1/2, and bad luck with the picks they hit in rounds 1/2 who mostly had short careers. Smith, Nicks, Phillips, JPP, T. Thomas, Beatty etc.
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Interesting to see the data of how badd Ross /Reese were.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
This x 1,000,000
I'm purposefully leaving out the major free agent signings because I think we've continued to do pretty well in that department.
Because that’s when Gettleman left.
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If you are going to compare and contrast Reese to Gettleman, you should at least go back to 2007.
Because that’s when Gettleman left.
So are we basically blaming Marc Ross for everything that happened post 2010? Gettleman leaving was the sole reason the Giants have made terrible personnel decisions?
If the correlation is that Gettleman was the glue in the front office for the Giants, then it would be interesting to see how many pick 75 or later ended up being starters on the Panthers.
Several late round hog mollie gems.
His choices of WRs were meh.
The Patriots for example and comparison, had some really elite players after pick 75 like (David Andrews
J.C. Jackson, Malcom Butler, Marcus Cannon, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers)
The elite players you list are Belichick..:)
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In comment 14448450 BH28 said:
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If you are going to compare and contrast Reese to Gettleman, you should at least go back to 2007.
Because that’s when Gettleman left.
So are we basically blaming Marc Ross for everything that happened post 2010? Gettleman leaving was the sole reason the Giants have made terrible personnel decisions?
If the correlation is that Gettleman was the glue in the front office for the Giants, then it would be interesting to see how many pick 75 or later ended up being starters on the Panthers.
Time will tell. But a big thing with me is DG is returning the Giants to the philosophy than won the super bowls. Strong physical offensive line and front seven on defense. Balanced offense so we can run ball especially in red zone. Competent receivers but not outrageous cap allocation to any one of them.
The single most depressing thing over recent years has been the giants getting manhandled physically by teams like the Seahawks, Eagles etc. Several years ago when we shied away from tackling Lynch during the game. Many other teams abused our DL and have stuffed our run consistently. Turning this around is the single biggest key in my mind. Leads to success in all other aspects of game. That and drafting your next QB.
There was no sense of building this foundation under Reese. He once said if he had two equally rated players and one was a skill position and one was a lineman he would choose the skill position every time. That and calling football basketball on grass told you all you need to know. All recent super bowl winners have physical defenses and can run the ball while having a balanced attack.
DG deserves credit for getting us back to a winning philosophy.
Picking after round 2 is where the front office earns its money and that was the Giants downfall in recent years. As has been stated, it seems to coincide with Ross’ arrival and DG’s departure.
The jury is very much out in DG and PS. I’d love to join in and give them the benefit of the doubt, but this is not a team that’s earned that. Far too many questionable decisions need to play themselves out.
These pre-DG drafts have been an absolute disaster over the last 5+ years
Quote:
Interesting to see the data of how badd Ross /Reese were.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
Ross and Chris Mara were the keys to me.
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In comment 14448430 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Interesting to see the data of how badd Ross /Reese were.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
Ross and Chris Mara were the keys to me.
Does anyone know why Reese went away from the way Acorsi built the team emphasizing line play, the running game and an overall more physical approach to the game?
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In comment 14448469 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14448450 BH28 said:
Quote:
If you are going to compare and contrast Reese to Gettleman, you should at least go back to 2007.
Because that’s when Gettleman left.
So are we basically blaming Marc Ross for everything that happened post 2010? Gettleman leaving was the sole reason the Giants have made terrible personnel decisions?
If the correlation is that Gettleman was the glue in the front office for the Giants, then it would be interesting to see how many pick 75 or later ended up being starters on the Panthers.
Time will tell. But a big thing with me is DG is returning the Giants to the philosophy than won the super bowls. Strong physical offensive line and front seven on defense. Balanced offense so we can run ball especially in red zone. Competent receivers but not outrageous cap allocation to any one of them.
The single most depressing thing over recent years has been the giants getting manhandled physically by teams like the Seahawks, Eagles etc. Several years ago when we shied away from tackling Lynch during the game. Many other teams abused our DL and have stuffed our run consistently. Turning this around is the single biggest key in my mind. Leads to success in all other aspects of game. That and drafting your next QB.
There was no sense of building this foundation under Reese. He once said if he had two equally rated players and one was a skill position and one was a lineman he would choose the skill position every time. That and calling football basketball on grass told you all you need to know. All recent super bowl winners have physical defenses and can run the ball while having a balanced attack.
DG deserves credit for getting us back to a winning philosophy.
Let's get back to winning before we call it a winning philosophy. Again, before we anoint DG as the reason why the pre-2010 giants were good and the post 2010 giants were not, I'd take a look at the continuous starters the panthers have had from 2011-2017 in the 75+ draft pick position. It's nothing to write home about.
Drafting is hard, just look at the historic hit rates of picks. It could be the giants had a string of good luck to 2010. I think people are trying to hard to pin the giants failures on one singular piece, like DG leaving. It was a systematic failure for years. There is no smoking gun.
link - ( New Window )
isn't easy to do in one season with what he had to work
with . We are headed in the right direction ,
The QB has been chosen and I think they did they right
thing Jones will be a solid pick he just needs to get his feet wet and learn the playbook having Eli here we know
he will have the time to prepare when called upon
sure we still need some pieces but right now I think we
will be very competitive although we have a lot of youth
they are hungry to prove themselves .
The approach is proven regardless of DG drafting prowess. As a said. will see. But the focusis in the right areas. Stop the run. Run the ball. And rush the passer. Thats a proven winning focus.
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In comment 14448484 BH28 said:
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In comment 14448469 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14448450 BH28 said:
Quote:
If you are going to compare and contrast Reese to Gettleman, you should at least go back to 2007.
Because that’s when Gettleman left.
So are we basically blaming Marc Ross for everything that happened post 2010? Gettleman leaving was the sole reason the Giants have made terrible personnel decisions?
If the correlation is that Gettleman was the glue in the front office for the Giants, then it would be interesting to see how many pick 75 or later ended up being starters on the Panthers.
Time will tell. But a big thing with me is DG is returning the Giants to the philosophy than won the super bowls. Strong physical offensive line and front seven on defense. Balanced offense so we can run ball especially in red zone. Competent receivers but not outrageous cap allocation to any one of them.
The single most depressing thing over recent years has been the giants getting manhandled physically by teams like the Seahawks, Eagles etc. Several years ago when we shied away from tackling Lynch during the game. Many other teams abused our DL and have stuffed our run consistently. Turning this around is the single biggest key in my mind. Leads to success in all other aspects of game. That and drafting your next QB.
There was no sense of building this foundation under Reese. He once said if he had two equally rated players and one was a skill position and one was a lineman he would choose the skill position every time. That and calling football basketball on grass told you all you need to know. All recent super bowl winners have physical defenses and can run the ball while having a balanced attack.
DG deserves credit for getting us back to a winning philosophy.
Let's get back to winning before we call it a winning philosophy. Again, before we anoint DG as the reason why the pre-2010 giants were good and the post 2010 giants were not, I'd take a look at the continuous starters the panthers have had from 2011-2017 in the 75+ draft pick position. It's nothing to write home about.
Drafting is hard, just look at the historic hit rates of picks. It could be the giants had a string of good luck to 2010. I think people are trying to hard to pin the giants failures on one singular piece, like DG leaving. It was a systematic failure for years. There is no smoking gun. link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14448433 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 14448430 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Interesting to see the data of how badd Ross /Reese were.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
Ross and Chris Mara were the keys to me.
Does anyone know why Reese went away from the way Acorsi built the team emphasizing line play, the running game and an overall more physical approach to the game?
First year as GM wins it all and part of that was due to the contributions of his 2007 rookie class. Wins it all again in 2011 confirming what he's doing. He put a damn fine WR core in place for that ran and Eli mad it happen. But 2011 was the last gasp of the defensive and offensive lines. Success can go to your head.
Look at how much more competitive Seattle has remained over a 7 year stretch compared to the Giants under Reese. Six playoff appearances out of 7 seasons and back-to-back Super Bowl appearances with one championship. They eventually had to pay Wilson (twice now) and have lost most of that original core. But they keep on trucking and have done it against good San Francisco teams and now LA Rams.
Pete Carol has missed the playoffs twice in his nine seasons, granted one of those was a 7-9 appearance, but they did win a playoff game in that appearance. In those appearances they have been one and done only once.
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In comment 14448595 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 14448433 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14448430 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
Interesting to see the data of how badd Ross /Reese were.
To this day I wonder how different Reese's tenure would have gone had he never hired Marc Ross.
Ross and Chris Mara were the keys to me.
Does anyone know why Reese went away from the way Acorsi built the team emphasizing line play, the running game and an overall more physical approach to the game?
First year as GM wins it all and part of that was due to the contributions of his 2007 rookie class. Wins it all again in 2011 confirming what he's doing. He put a damn fine WR core in place for that ran and Eli mad it happen. But 2011 was the last gasp of the defensive and offensive lines. Success can go to your head.
Look at how much more competitive Seattle has remained over a 7 year stretch compared to the Giants under Reese. Six playoff appearances out of 7 seasons and back-to-back Super Bowl appearances with one championship. They eventually had to pay Wilson (twice now) and have lost most of that original core. But they keep on trucking and have done it against good San Francisco teams and now LA Rams.
Pete Carol has missed the playoffs twice in his nine seasons, granted one of those was a 7-9 appearance, but they did win a playoff game in that appearance. In those appearances they have been one and done only once.
SEA’s offensive line has been as bad/worse than ours in recent years ... the difference is they had a great mobile QB playing on a rookie deal for most of that time while we’ve had an immobile 30+ year old eating up a ton of cap room.
It’s a whole lot easier to build a competitive team when your paying your star QB 3M over 4 years ... and that QB can actually make plays on his own. Now that Wilson is being paid, they keep on trucking because Russel Wilson is a much better player than Eli Manning
A mobile QB covers up a lot of weaknesses, and Wilson is simply more capable of creating plays on his own. This isn’t anti-Eli, and certainly not pro-Reese ... more of a testament to how good Russel Wilson is.
He’s an incredible player and the primary reason SEA remains competitive. He covers up a lot of that teams deficiencies - because he has the athletic ability to make plays that Eli (and a lot of other QBs) physically cant.