Emory Hunt mentioned on Twitter that Matt Ryans career will be looked on more favorably after he retires than it is currently and considers him a HOF caliber QB. Someone responded pointing out his career similarities to Phillip Rivers, yet Rivers gets the credit he deserves.
I thought it was an interesting comparison and example of how perception often trumps reality. Two QB’s with similar statistics and career success. But one is often viewed very differently than the other.
Fair comparison? Is Ryan underrated as a QB? If not, does that mean Rivers is overrated? Are they both HoF candidates?
Good QBs, nowhere near “all time greats”
I don’t think Matt Ryan is a clutch QB and shouldn’t be in the HoF but by the end his stats will get him in most likely.
Good QBs, nowhere near “all time greats”
This. Well put.
Ryan would be better off to be in the same category after 28-3, whether or not it was his fault. Voters will always have that in the back of their head.
They are not HOF's right now.
They are both good at compiling stats
Ryan stills has some good years left to prove himself.
Rivers has a STACKED team this year. He needs to get to the Superbowl this year. If he can do that and win it, he is a lock.
Ryan IMO is much better than both but not HOF worthy. Very good and meaningless stats rule today. . For the the shit that Eli gets Ryan sucked when his OL was total shit. If Ryan is a HOF guy then Eli is by a wide margin
At this point it’s subjective. Fact is Rivers is getting in, I’d bet my savings on it. Ryan probably does too, but I wouldn’t put money down on it.
Ryan just needs a few more years with some playoff success.
Or one very, very big year with playoff success.
If all time greats is your criteria than maybe not. But non all time greats get in all the time so that’s what I’m going off of.
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If we’re looking at them as all time greats.
If all time greats is your criteria than maybe not. But non all time greats get in all the time so that’s what I’m going off of.
Eli is in.
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In comment 14448651 UberAlias said:
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If we’re looking at them as all time greats.
If all time greats is your criteria than maybe not. But non all time greats get in all the time so that’s what I’m going off of.
They do get in all the time. Hence the bar is low. They've got a long list of HOF QBs lined up: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Ben, Eli, Rivers, Rodgers, Luck, Wilson. They'll be hearing arguments for Romo, Ryan, Stafford, Newton. Then I'm sure we'll see a list from the young crop Mahomes, et al. Are there really that many hall of famers?
No to Romo and so far no to Stafford.
Stafford is not close either.
If he plays out his career on that trajectory and he eclipses 70K yards and 450TDs, and wins 150 games, he's getting in the HOF on the first ballet.
Marino had elite numbers that were best in the league and drastically better than almost everyone.
In comparison, Ryan and Rivers numbers are almost pedestrian nowadays, numbers a top 10 questions puts up.
Rivers:
64.5 completion % (9th all time)
54,656 yards (8th all time)
374 TDs (6th all time)
95.6 Passer Rating (8th all time)
It's a passing era, and Rivers arguably overall numbers wise is 3rd behind Brady and Brees in overall productivity.
Being 3rd in an era is like saying Warren Moon isn't a Hall of Famer because Marino and Elway had better numbers.
...depend upon it.
One thing the majority of QB's who are in or will be in is Super Bowls. Rivers has played on plenty of very talented teams (LDT, Gates, Jackson, etc.) Atlanta has built much more heavily on the offensive side. Both are still ringless.
Regarding stats; I think the HOF is going to have to start looking at QB's differently. Almost half the league had QB's with over 4k yards. Scoring is up, rules favor passing, and QB's are playing longer than ever before since they are so well protected which has led to much longer careers and total numbers.
If I were to ask you 15 years from now something like tell me a signature moment for Ryan or Rivers what would it be?
Someone like Eli and many of those in have those defining moments.
You shit in Eli in 100s of thread and a guy who has had Tony G and Julio Jones to make him look good should waltz into Canton. Congrats. Opinions can vary but you need to go to AA. Quick
As far as stats, the only active guys not in the top 10 in the major categories threatening to get there are Ryan, Rodgers, and Stafford. Like it or not those guys have been insanely consistent.
Maybe Ryan and Stafford will be viewed differently by history and a different measuring stick. And maybe Rodgers as well. If he called it quits or injuries cut his career now, he's a no question HOFer, right?
The game definitely favors the QB now, but conversely QB is far more important and impactful than any other position.
It's difficult to ever imagine voters looking at a guy who plays 15 years, has a great winning percentage, and is top 10 in the major categories and saying no.
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should waltz into Canton. Guy has an MVP, great stats, solid QBR, very good W/L record, and should have a SB if not for some poor coaching down the stretch. If you look at his playoff stats, especially in 2016, his numbers are very good, too.
You shit in Eli in 100s of thread and a guy who has had Tony G and Julio Jones to make him look good should waltz into Canton. Congrats. Opinions can vary but you need to go to AA. Quick
Which HoF QB didn't have excellent players around him? So Ryan isn't some outlier there. That's just such a silly, lazy argument.
I've been slow to come around on Ryan because I think indoor QBs have an advantage. So you have to study their splits, especially indoor/outdoor, home/road, etc, and by and large Ryan is very solid. He has a winning record, 63%+ completion, and a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio on the road (more career TDs on the road).
The only player who's going to sniff that for a while is Rodgers.
But my point, there's a very realistic chance of Matt Ryan retires in the Top 3 of all time in passing yards and Top 5 in passing touchdowns.
The whole point of the OP here is that the perception of Matt Ryan is smudging the facts. And the facts are, if he continues on the trajectory he's currently on, he's going to be one of the best quarterbacks of all time and should be in the Hall of Fame, regardless of how we all "feel" about him.
I don't agree. Everyone is going to be compared against their peers so if stats are to be had, then we will know who's got more than who on a pretty even playing field.
Superbowls matter more when the stats aren't there (see Terrell Davis).
bw in dc : 5/19/2019 1:07 pm : link : reply
should waltz into Canton. Guy has an MVP, great stats, solid QBR, very good W/L record, and should have a SB if not for some poor coaching down the stretch. If you look at his playoff stats, especially in 2016, his numbers are very good, too.
This just cements the bias.
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In comment 14448729 bw in dc said:
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should waltz into Canton. Guy has an MVP, great stats, solid QBR, very good W/L record, and should have a SB if not for some poor coaching down the stretch. If you look at his playoff stats, especially in 2016, his numbers are very good, too.
You shit in Eli in 100s of thread and a guy who has had Tony G and Julio Jones to make him look good should waltz into Canton. Congrats. Opinions can vary but you need to go to AA. Quick
Which HoF QB didn't have excellent players around him? So Ryan isn't some outlier there. That's just such a silly, lazy argument.
I've been slow to come around on Ryan because I think indoor QBs have an advantage. So you have to study their splits, especially indoor/outdoor, home/road, etc, and by and large Ryan is very solid. He has a winning record, 63%+ completion, and a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio on the road (more career TDs on the road).
Lol. Excellent or HOF worthy also. Ryan sucked when he had a shitty and no running game. They. Get better at both and he’s great again. But when Eli is surrounded by trans he sucks.
Got it.
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Matt Ryan...
bw in dc : 5/19/2019 1:07 pm : link : reply
should waltz into Canton. Guy has an MVP, great stats, solid QBR, very good W/L record, and should have a SB if not for some poor coaching down the stretch. If you look at his playoff stats, especially in 2016, his numbers are very good, too.
This just cements the bias.
What bias? I never brought up Eli in this discussion. I suggest you take a deeper dive on Ryan's numbers. They are very good vis-a-vis his peers.
Eli will likely get in - because of the weight of the SB wins over New England - but it's not unreasonable at all to say there are significant holes in Eli's resume that could make it a struggle.
His regular season numbers by themselves don't validate a HoF QB, IMV, especially in this era where the QB has never been more protected and it's never been easier to be a wide receiver.
Thought Ryan's game, at least from a statistical perspective, was off the charts. No?
No way. Eli will have 3 things going against him.
1 - anti NY bias
2 - losing career record
3 - lack of respect around the league (most players in the league seem to see Eli as a Rex Grossman level QB who got lucky twice)
Eli's candidacy was hurt a lot when Nick Foles beat the Patriots. I think if the Eagles lose that game, Eli would get in based solely on being the only one to beat Brady. He'd need to somehow get a third ring to get in IMO.