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NFT: RJ Barrett: Potential to be as Good a Shooting Guard..

Canton : 5/19/2019 12:25 pm
to come into the NBA, in the last 10 years, according to Knicks former Scouting Director, Brendan Suhr. He said not to over think it and just take him.

Quote:
He’s very versatile, with a mentality to score. He’s dominated every level, dominated at the FIBA [International Basketball Federation] level. And he’s got great size. He’s a winner, comes from great basketball and athletic family. You’re getting a great kid. He’s the strongest candidate for that pick.'

Knicks ‘better pick’ RJ Barrett if he’s available: Ex-team exec - ( New Window )
His handle  
RAIN : 5/19/2019 12:36 pm : link
Makes him unique at that size. My impression was that played some great D too. But would be curious to hear others take on his two way game.
Barrett should be the pick  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 12:37 pm : link
and they should NOT trade for AD. Keep the youth keep the flexibility sign KD and Kyrie and go to war!!!!!
Dominated?  
Greg from LI : 5/19/2019 12:42 pm : link
When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.
RE: Dominated?  
Canton : 5/19/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.


Quote:
After Williamson’s knee sprain abetted what became a somewhat excusable loss to Carolina, Duke took 48 hours to prepare and bounced back on Saturday night at Syracuse, led by 30 points from Barrett.


Barrett’s strong 30-point game without Williamson against Syracuse (and a triple double the weekend before, against NC State) had his arrow trending in the right direction, during that time period.



I hate to say it but it sure looks like they  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 12:54 pm : link
are going to trade for AD. The fact that they were looking at the 7' 7"" center from UCF is another indicator. Why would they be looking at centers if Robinson wasn't on the way out the door? I think its better than 50% that they pick Barrett and ship him and Robinson and other assets for AD.
Need more convincing?  
Canton : 5/19/2019 12:55 pm : link
Of course not. You were never shy about being a Duke Hater, and you're holding that against him.


Quote:
1. RJ BARRETT, Duke
Key stats: 23.4 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 4.2 apg

Heading into the Duke-UNC rematch on Saturday, it didn't seem likely RJ Barrett could leapfrog Zion Williamson in the Watch. But availability is a part of ability, and this is not a Player of the Year award. The Watch is about statistical consistency and impact. Zion Williamson was available for 81 percent of Duke's games in the regular season. RJ Barrett was available for all of them. That six-game difference wound up giving Barrett the slightest of edges. Check out their stat totals for the season.

Barrett: 724 points, 130 assists, 233 rebounds, 24 steals, 13 blocks, 95 turnovers, 58 fouls.

Williamson: 561 points, 57 assists, 229 rebounds, 57steals, 48 blocks, 61 turnovers, 51 fouls.

Need more convincing?

Barrett now owns the records for:

Most points by a freshman in Duke and ACC history (724)
Being fastest to 700 points in school history
Having the most 20-point games as a freshman in Duke and ACC history (23)
Most points scored at home in a single season in Duke history (402)
He's also one of just two players in the country averaging at least 20 points, seven rebounds and four assists (Justin James, Wyoming). Barrett earned this.
Yeah Greg we get you don’t like RJ and Duke..  
Italianju : 5/19/2019 1:00 pm : link
But they went 3-2 without Zion winning at cuse, against MIA, and Wake (I know they stink). They lost at #20 Vtech and #3 UNC. THe only game he really struggled in was the UNC game. And he still had 26 and 12 but shot badly. So we are killing him for going to #3 UNC without the 2nd best player on the team and not being able to carry them against a damn good UNC team.
Barrett is going to be a star.  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 1:00 pm : link
You get a 6' 7" shooting guard who has a point guard handle and can D 1 through 4. He is a better version of Simmons. Way more offensive skills than Simmons and the same handle and defense. You draft him, you sign KD and Kyrie, you keep all the young players with upside and you keep all the picks. No need to strip the team down to land AD.
RE: Need more convincing?  
Jon in NYC : 5/19/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14448704 Canton said:
Quote:
Of course not. You were never shy about being a Duke Hater, and you're holding that against him.




Quote:


1. RJ BARRETT, Duke
Key stats: 23.4 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 4.2 apg

Heading into the Duke-UNC rematch on Saturday, it didn't seem likely RJ Barrett could leapfrog Zion Williamson in the Watch. But availability is a part of ability, and this is not a Player of the Year award. The Watch is about statistical consistency and impact. Zion Williamson was available for 81 percent of Duke's games in the regular season. RJ Barrett was available for all of them. That six-game difference wound up giving Barrett the slightest of edges. Check out their stat totals for the season.

Barrett: 724 points, 130 assists, 233 rebounds, 24 steals, 13 blocks, 95 turnovers, 58 fouls.

Williamson: 561 points, 57 assists, 229 rebounds, 57steals, 48 blocks, 61 turnovers, 51 fouls.

Need more convincing?

Barrett now owns the records for:

Most points by a freshman in Duke and ACC history (724)
Being fastest to 700 points in school history
Having the most 20-point games as a freshman in Duke and ACC history (23)
Most points scored at home in a single season in Duke history (402)
He's also one of just two players in the country averaging at least 20 points, seven rebounds and four assists (Justin James, Wyoming). Barrett earned this.



Your grand argument is that Barrett had more counting stats in 6 more games?

I like Barrett a lot but that’s a bad argument.
And even more...  
Canton : 5/19/2019 1:02 pm : link
Williamson's stunning exit against UNC, however, created a nightmare of a void―one only a special talent could fill. The Blue Devils always had this player, but it took Williamson's absence to fully push Barrett into the spotlight.

And he sure is comfortable on center stage.

This is the same player who dominated Team USA in the FIBA U19 Basketball Championships in 2017. Team USA had earned two straight U19 titles and three of the last four, but Barrett ended those runs with 38 points, 13 rebounds and five assists.

He's the standout who racked up 33 points and six assists in his college debut, a 118-84 dismantling of Kentucky; the one who scored 32 points and played all 40 minutes during a thrilling win at Florida State when an eye injury limited Williamson in January.

And the same superstar who notched a quiet zero-turnover triple-double behind Williamson's 32-point display against NC State.

This shows how quickly Zion's orbit has controlled Barrett's prestige.


The reason isn't novel; Barrett would be a team-leading superstar if Williamson wasn't on the same roster. You'd expect this excellence from 247Sports' No. 1 overall recruit in the 2018 class.


After Williamson's injury, Duke couldn't keep up with UNC. Barrett missed a few shots but hardly could've played any better.

Despite the loss, Barrett turned in a 33-point, 13-rebound effort while receiving little help from non-Cam Reddish teammates. The other Blue Devils shot 1-of-16 from three-point range. It turns out an unexpected 39-minute absence from an NBA-bound star can really affect a team!


When Mike Krzyzewski and his Duke staff had several days to prepare a plan without Zion, though, Barrett flat-out dominated.

Syracuse didn't have an answer for him in Duke's 75-65 victory on Saturday. Barrett racked up 30 points on a clinical 14-of-20 line, while also dishing a game-best seven assists that shredded Syracuse's trademark zone defense.


Barrett has an occasional habit of holding the ball too long, and that playmaker mentality will be a point of contention on his NBA scouting report. When he sees the floor like at Syracuse, he's even tougher to defend.

After all, you know he'll score. Barrett has proved as much all season alongside his roommate, a genuinely close friend.

Williamson told Devin Gordon of GQ he's closest with Barrett and Dana O'Neil of The Athletic that Barrett is "almost like my twin." They're at their best together.

No reasonable person would argue against Duke's best chance to win a national title being with the freshman duo on the court―but especially Williamson. He's a creative, powerful, efficient player who is exceptionally difficult to contain.

The best featured players know their wingman's worth. Sometimes, though, that wingman needs a moment in the spotlight to remind everyone else just how integral he is.



Link - ( New Window )
He is nowhere close to being that good  
Deejboy : 5/19/2019 1:05 pm : link
I question what that scout was smoking. A number of scouts see a lot of Danny Granger in him. Granger had 5 really good years but then blow out his knee and was never the same. Granger was a good shooter who could get you 20 a night, 5 rebs, 2 assists, and play good but not great defense.

He wasn't a franchise player but more of a borderline allstar before the injury and I think that is what people see in Barrett assuming he develops.
Barrett averaged 22.6 as an 18 year old freshman  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 1:18 pm : link
in the ACC. On top of that no one argues his size 6'7" his wingspan 6' 10" his excellent handle and his top notch skills as a rebounder and defender...what more does anyone need to see?
RE: Dominated?  
lightemup : 5/19/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.


This is why I'd be ok with barrett as the pick and not trading with AD. Barrett as the pick if we were rebuilding and him being the future of the team would be a mistake, but he'd be joining KD and Kyrie hopefully. He's been good playing alongside a star already. He'd know his role and at times he can be the main scorer for the second squad. He'd have the James harden role when he was in OKC playing with durant and Westbrook. Now durant and kyrie.
I liked Morant and of course Zion more than Barrett but am warming up  
Jim in Hoboken : 5/19/2019 2:11 pm : link
to him. I don’t think we should trade down for Culver, unless they are getting another mid-first and using that on Porter Jr.

People look at Hunter as an unfinished product and think he has more potential than Barrett, when Barrett is more than 2 years younger. I do feel that Barrett may not have as much projection left because he’s already polished, but I like that he seems to have the alpha dog mentality. Maybe he can rub off on Frank.
Are you trying to convince us RJ is better than Zion  
90.Cal : 5/19/2019 2:22 pm : link
Alot of idiots said the same thing before the season started... just saying. If you cant put the numbers aside and just see "it" when you watch Zion... then I don't know what to say but stay tuned. Zion is going to be an 'All-Timer' while R.J might be an "All-Star"
RE: Barrett should be the pick  
81_Great_Dane : 5/19/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14448687 Chris L. said:
Quote:
and they should NOT trade for AD. Keep the youth keep the flexibility sign KD and Kyrie and go to war!!!!!
This! If Barrett is there, take him and keep him. And keep the future picks. Do not trade for Davis, ESPECIALLY with a risk that he leaves in free agency in a year.
RE: I hate to say it but it sure looks like they  
81_Great_Dane : 5/19/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14448703 Chris L. said:
Quote:
are going to trade for AD. The fact that they were looking at the 7' 7"" center from UCF is another indicator. Why would they be looking at centers if Robinson wasn't on the way out the door? I think its better than 50% that they pick Barrett and ship him and Robinson and other assets for AD.
Am I crazy, or in today's NBA, all things being equal, isn't a swingman who can shoot the 3 more valuable than a center?
Barrett  
Vanzetti : 5/19/2019 3:41 pm : link
Will be like Michael Redd or Richard Hamilton.

Not an all-time great but a guy who can be the third option on a championship team
Or maybe a poor man's James Worthy  
Vanzetti : 5/19/2019 3:53 pm : link
Or a rich man's Allan Houston
RE: RE: Barrett should be the pick  
Jim in Fairfax : 5/19/2019 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14448873 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:

This! If Barrett is there, take him and keep him. And keep the future picks. Do not trade for Davis, ESPECIALLY with a risk that he leaves in free agency in a year.

The risk of him walking is the biggest issue. If you had him locked in for a few years it would be one thing. But if they give up Barrett, Robinson, Knox and 2-3 Number 1 picks and he walks next summer - they’re screwed for 5-6 years at least.
When the Knicks  
PaulN : 5/19/2019 5:19 pm : link
Make the trade for Davis, it will be the same old shit and watch what happens, can anyone say injuries galore. Keep the fucking youth movement, add Durant and whoever and let it play out, they will be taken over a barrel as always, this is why they are losers. Same old Knicks, same old shit.
They should keep what they got...  
Canton : 5/19/2019 5:24 pm : link
And Zion will come to us when he's a FA, to be with Barrett. Before then try to win with KD, KI, and our young supporting cast.
Just take  
TommyWiseau : 5/19/2019 5:36 pm : link
RJ and see what happens. IF you could get AD without giving up literally everyone (keeping Mitch or Knox) I would consider it but I do not feel like giving up 2 or 3 first round picks, Frank, DSG, RJ, Knox, Mitch and then some
Cannon has got it right  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 5:59 pm : link
If you keep Barrett add Durant and go with the youth movement you will also have a hell of a shot at Zion down the road because of Barrett.
Canton  
Chris L. : 5/19/2019 5:59 pm : link
...sorry
RJ Barrett is going to be a all star.  
larryflower37 : 5/19/2019 8:50 pm : link
If he didn't play with Zion, the conversation would be different.
The top 3 are going to be really good ball players.
Morant scares me the most.
Morant lack of defense is scary and I know the argument about him carrying the team on offense and saving his energy but I have not seen someone not even bother on the defensive end.
'Barrett and ship him, Robinson and other assets for AD'...  
Torrag : 5/19/2019 9:35 pm : link
IF KD is indeed inbound this is exactly what they should do. If they combine KD/AD and another player be it Kyrie/Kemba this team is a legit championship contender. There are limits to what I would offer in terms of assets but I'd be aggressive that's certain.
RE: 'Barrett and ship him, Robinson and other assets for AD'...  
Giantz_comeback : 5/19/2019 10:05 pm : link
In comment 14449183 Torrag said:
Quote:
IF KD is indeed inbound this is exactly what they should do. If they combine KD/AD and another player be it Kyrie/Kemba this team is a legit championship contender. There are limits to what I would offer in terms of assets but I'd be aggressive that's certain.


This is exactly what we should be doing if we get KD in here. And its probably what he'd want too.

AD has a tom of leverage from that standpoint that he can basically say which team he will sign an extension with. If Pels want the best package itll likely be from a team that gets an assurance he'll sign long term.

If memory serves
He has only publicly proclaimed us and the Lakers as 2 destinations hed re-up with. Between the bad blood with the Lakers combined with assets that have taken hits in value I dont know if Lakers are as much in the drivers seats as they once were.

Barrett could be exactly in line with what Pels would want most to put around Zion. Another 5 year cost controlled guy that has star potential.
RE: RE: 'Barrett and ship him, Robinson and other assets for AD'...  
Jim in Fairfax : 5/19/2019 10:14 pm : link
In comment 14449199 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:

This is exactly what we should be doing if we get KD in here. And its probably what he'd want too.

AD has a tom of leverage from that standpoint that he can basically say which team he will sign an extension with. If Pels want the best package itll likely be from a team that gets an assurance he'll sign long term.

If memory serves
He has only publicly proclaimed us and the Lakers as 2 destinations hed re-up with. Between the bad blood with the Lakers combined with assets that have taken hits in value I dont know if Lakers are as much in the drivers seats as they once were.

Barrett could be exactly in line with what Pels would want most to put around Zion. Another 5 year cost controlled guy that has star potential.

But again, the problem is he has stated he will not sign an extension this offseason for ANY team. If things don’t go the way he likes in 2019-20, he can and will walk at the end of the year. And then you’ve given away perhaps essentially 6 first round draft picks for 1 season.
RE: RE: RE: 'Barrett and ship him, Robinson and other assets for AD'...  
TommyWiseau : 5/19/2019 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14449203 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14449199 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:



This is exactly what we should be doing if we get KD in here. And its probably what he'd want too.

AD has a tom of leverage from that standpoint that he can basically say which team he will sign an extension with. If Pels want the best package itll likely be from a team that gets an assurance he'll sign long term.

If memory serves
He has only publicly proclaimed us and the Lakers as 2 destinations hed re-up with. Between the bad blood with the Lakers combined with assets that have taken hits in value I dont know if Lakers are as much in the drivers seats as they once were.

Barrett could be exactly in line with what Pels would want most to put around Zion. Another 5 year cost controlled guy that has star potential.


But again, the problem is he has stated he will not sign an extension this offseason for ANY team. If things don’t go the way he likes in 2019-20, he can and will walk at the end of the year. And then you’ve given away perhaps essentially 6 first round draft picks for 1 season.


If he is unwilling to sign an extension you do NOT make the trade
What about moving  
TommyWiseau : 5/20/2019 1:16 am : link
The 3rd pick, Knox and a future pick or two for Bradley Beal to pair with two max guys we sign this offseason? I like Beal a lot, plays above average defense and can take over a game
The Beal cost will be fairly comparable to AD..  
Italianju : 5/20/2019 7:37 am : link
considering his salary number and the fact that he is signed for two more seasons still. Also the Wizards arent run very well (although i loved dumping Otto) so they will keep Beal even though they should blow it up. That said Beal would be a great fit.
Thing is he cant sign an extension...  
Italianju : 5/20/2019 7:38 am : link
this offseason if he wants to get the max amount. NBA CBA is so stupid on so many things. I think the earliest he can sign is midseason. So yeah he can say he will resign, but if something goes wrong then we could end up screwed.
Knox  
Eli Wilson : 5/20/2019 7:52 am : link
I think people are selling Knox short. He was 19 the entire year and won't be 20 until August.

At the same age he has very similar size, athleticism and offensive numbers as Giannis. IF he continues to develop physically and basketball-wise he can be a poor man's GIannis with a better outside shot.

The problem is, I'm not sure he has the right personality/desire to get there. We'll have to wait and see.
RE: RE: Dominated?  
WideRight : 5/20/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14448701 Canton said:
Quote:
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.





Quote:


After Williamson’s knee sprain abetted what became a somewhat excusable loss to Carolina, Duke took 48 hours to prepare and bounced back on Saturday night at Syracuse, led by 30 points from Barrett.



Barrett’s strong 30-point game without Williamson against Syracuse (and a triple double the weekend before, against NC State) had his arrow trending in the right direction, during that time period.




Yes. He absolutley carried the team when Zion was out. The loss to 'cuse was coaching, not Barrett.

Barrett is going to have a better NBA career than Zion. He's a better scorer than Zion. His basketball IQ is just below. And physically, he is built for a 10-12 year career of 78+ games. Zion will average 60-70 games/yr then be out by year seven.
I think  
MookGiants : 5/20/2019 8:13 am : link
people are way too worried about the possibility of Davis not resigning with the Knicks.

If the Knicks trade for him, he's resigning. Knicks fans are always waiting for the other shoe to drop, but he's not going to lie to them and then leave.

The agent isn't going to let something like that happen, either. It would be a terrible look for the agent and bad for business for that agent.

If the Knicks can get Davis plus 2 max guys, they have to do it. Knicks haven't won anything in forever, they have to go for it and try to win 1 title. If that happens, no one will give a shit that they may have been better off in the long run if they kept Barrett.
and the Knicks  
MookGiants : 5/20/2019 8:17 am : link
shouldn't even consider that it would help recruit Zion down the line. He's a long way from free agency and the only thing the Knicks should be concerned with is winning 1 title as soon as possible. I don't give a shit about 7 years from now.

Durant isn't even on the Knicks and Knicks fans are acting like he's a lock and wanting to turn down getting another top 10 player in the entire sport because they'd rather go with a youth movement and have a good chance of landing Zion as a free agent in 6 years.

The way some of you guys are talking you would think the Knicks have won a title recently.

I see trading for Davis as a no brainer...  
Chris684 : 5/20/2019 8:34 am : link
That said, there are rumors the Pels have no interest in Knox, we also know they want a "package".

If it's really true that the Pels don't want to deal with the Lakers and Davis doesn't want the Celtics, things become very favorable for the Knicks.

So, if the Knicks can swing something like #3/Barrett, Robinson, Both Dallas picks and maybe Frank or Dotson, I think you have to do it. When you think about it, there is a lot there that figures to be of long term interest to Nola.

Zion gets to come into the league with his college running mate. They get a big to keep other bigs off Zion and also replace AD's size/defense. They get a boost through the draft in Dallas's picks which after Tuesday night, we know you no longer need to be abysmal to find yourself at the top of the draft, very valuable. Frank or Dotson would just be throw-ins obviously but they are young bodies and in Frank's case the potential for some upside if he continues to develop.

The question I think the Knicks need to answer beyond the obvious (is KD coming here), but if so, does he need Kyrie? If not, I stay away from Irving completely, Davis becomes the 2nd max player and I move forward with DSJ at point.

Off the top of my head, if everything above came to fruition the Knicks would have a core of:

KD
AD
DSJ
Knox
Trier
Frank or Dotson
Pick #55 (maybe Tacko Fall)

Plus additional cap space as they only brought in the 2 maxes and all future NYK picks.
I'm as..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 9:00 am : link
Anti-Duke as most people, but it wouldn't be the biggest shock in the world in Barrett turns out better than Zion:

Quote:
Are you trying to convince us RJ is better than Zion
90.Cal : 5/19/2019 2:22 pm : link : reply
Alot of idiots said the same thing before the season started... just saying. If you cant put the numbers aside and just see "it" when you watch Zion... then I don't know what to say but stay tuned. Zion is going to be an 'All-Timer' while R.J might be an "All-Star"


Is it likely? Probably not, but there have been guys like Zion before to come out and not take the NBA by storm. Zion is 6'7", but has primarily an inside game. You can point to a lot of guys like that who couldn't dominate at the next level. Meanwhile, some shooting guards/swingmen with Barrett's makeup have not only excelled in the NBA, but have become perennial All-Star's.

It isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. And that's not even wondering what happens if Zion gets injuries that limit the explosiveness.
RE: RE: RE: Dominated?  
Greg from LI : 5/20/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14449474 WideRight said:
Quote:
Yes. He absolutley carried the team when Zion was out. The loss to 'cuse was coaching, not Barrett.


He carried the team? Carried them to what, a nail-biter of a win over putrid Wake? Beating sorryass Miami?

Duke was not a dominating team without Zion. Not even close.
RE: Dominated?  
Pete in VA : 5/20/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.


They were still a top fifteenish quality team, and that's with Three decent players and nobody else. And I say that as a UVA fan.
RE: RE: Dominated?  
Giantz_comeback : 5/20/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14449703 Pete in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.



They were still a top fifteenish quality team, and that's with Three decent players and nobody else. And I say that as a UVA fan.


Agreed.
RE: RE: Dominated?  
WideRight : 5/20/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14449703 Pete in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14448692 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


When Zion was injured, Duke was mediocre. Barrett couldn't carry the team.



They were still a top fifteenish quality team, and that's with Three decent players and nobody else. And I say that as a UVA fan.


Don't conflate Duke's domination with Barrett. Ja Morant is the #2 pick and his team didn't dominate anything.

Barrett palyed extremely well with or without Zion. That Duke couldn't make a three and has a total shit coach in no way impacts Barrett's prospects. And watch those Duke losses again. You will see that the only player to keep his game intact throughout was Barrett.
Barrett averaged 18 shots a night  
Anakim : 5/20/2019 12:16 pm : link
He better be putting up 22.6 PPG.
I am not  
Amtoft : 5/20/2019 1:04 pm : link
a huge fan of Barrett... Seems like a volume shooter and isn't very good from deep. Give me Hunter instead!
For me it's Zion then Ja, then Barrett and then like the next 10 guys.  
Heisenberg : 5/20/2019 2:15 pm : link
Hunter is a good player but he's 2 and a half years older than Barrett. I like him, but I don't see all star potential for him like I do Barrett.
RE: For me it's Zion then Ja, then Barrett and then like the next 10 guys.  
Giantz_comeback : 5/20/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14450018 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Hunter is a good player but he's 2 and a half years older than Barrett. I like him, but I don't see all star potential for him like I do Barrett.


Agreed
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