First, thanks to Defenderdawg for including this article in his Monday Reading. I've started a separate thread, because it's a very interesting article about a very important topic and I think you'll enjoy reading it through. Bentley comments on each player and the line as a whole. I found his analysis interesting and informative.
O-Line guru: Giants trio can restore unit’s glory days - (
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so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:
“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’
so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:
Quote:
Halapio
“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’
He’s definitely entitled to his opinion as a former player who runs his offseason OL camp. Wasn’t he also talking up John Jerry a few years back? I think Halapio is average at best and someone the organization should look to upgrade from next spring.
Also his comment on Brady making his linemen better is the exact counter pt to those who seem to be in denial about Eli’s role in the poor performances of the past several years.
that RT competition in camp will be something to watch now
Quote:
Halapio is brought up, he has such polarizing takes. You have some who think he's terrible.
so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:
Quote:
Halapio
“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’
He’s definitely entitled to his opinion as a former player who runs his offseason OL camp. Wasn’t he also talking up John Jerry a few years back? I think Halapio is average at best and someone the organization should look to upgrade from next spring.
Jerry had all of the tools to be a good OL. Bentley can only see their outside skills. He probably isn't in a good position to know what makes that player tick or how much they want it.
Hernandez and Zeitler, 1 of the best G tandems in the league, should help whoever is at C.
RT was, and still continues to be, my primary concern. If Remmers returns to form (at tackle), this OL is going to be good.
In addition to Jerry, Bentley used to rave about Geoff Schwartz when he was in Bentley's training program. That didn't exactly work out well.
There's been an avalanche of happy talk optimism about how all these guys the Giants have are going to improve, but until we see something happening on the field in real games, it's all just talk. We'll find out the truth soon enough.
I am one who feels Wheeler best position is LT.....curious to see how it goes.
You can defend Eli to the end if you want, but the poster is not wrong. Brady has changed the way he plays to adapt to the way defense in the NFL has changed. Eli hasn't.
Now, that isn't to say that it is all Eli's fault. The offensive game plans have been lacking for a number of years. The Patriots have not given Brady much in the way of OL for years- but the game plan is superior to what the Giants put together.
Nevertheless the point remains that the Giants have significantly upgraded their OL and RB positions. They did trade away a true #1 WR- but have n ice #2-#4 WR, and maybe a #1 emerges. The receiving TE appears to be an emerging strength.
At this point, the rest is up to Eli. Jones should do everything he can to learn from Eli, but if the Giants were wise, they would give him some Brady tape to study- and in fact, I would give the Giants offensive brain trust tapes of Brady to watch and learn how to put together a viable game plan.
so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:
Quote:
Halapio
“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’
That's more or less what Shurmur said about him, as well. That as a former center himself he can recognize some of those types of characteristics.
2. It's a shame that he got hurt so early, because we never got to see if he would improve as the season progressed. Bentley seems to believe that he would have...which is nice.
As for Wheeler, I don't have much faith in him at all. Maybe he'll surprise me, but I doubt it. Still, he's got another year to try, so good luck to him.
Add in recovery time for Solder and this could actually look like a bit of a shit-show at times...
As example, take Remmers career path. Most of these guys at the end of year 2 are bubble players on a roster, or hoping that their agent can find them a landing spot on a PS.
One of his biggest issues has been play strength. He just hasn't been strong enough. But when it comes to knowing his assignments and his effort in executing them, he's been doing much better.
The guy gained about 15 lbs this offseason. We'll see how it translates on the field, but if his play strength continues to improve - we might have a solid option here.
But, of course, they didn’t do that they signed Pulley to provide competition at least if not a chance to win the starting job. So there’s that.
Kind of sensitive there fella. Wasn’t my intent to take dig at Eli. Was thinking more along the lines of why taking a quarterback at 6 was the right Thing to do.
But whatever
"No guts, no glory." - Dave Gettleman.
Remember Flowers and Hart.
...these individuals "by comparison" look like a wall of granite.
Brady has been blessed with one of the best OL coaches....
Brady looked like shit when being scrapped off the ground on every play
I read the article this morning and I was completely stunned by his positive take on Wheeler. Hope he is right. Glad Remmers is here to establish a floor on RT performance.
Remember Flowers and Hart.
...these individuals "by comparison" look like a wall of granite.
Brady has been blessed with one of the best OL coaches....
Brady looked like shit when being scrapped off the ground on every play
Thank you. Anyone complaining about this OL needs to go back and watch Hart/Flowers
Worst tandem I’ve ever seen
No, it isn't. Do you seriously think Brady has no voice in the game plan? After the knee injury, he realized he could not continue to sit back in the pocket and wait for his receivers to run deep routes and get open.
He and the coordinators (and likely Belichek) cam up with a new plan- horizontal patterns that were shorter and faster developing. The change was the he had to get the ball out fast and accurately as opposed to letting his receivers get open. He would be throwing to a spot where his receiver would be, depending on the pre-snap read.
That was a major shift in offensive philosophy for the team. Gone was the Randy Moss vertical offense and in was the slot guy in a footrace across the field to get the ball at full speed and in an open spot.
Sorry if you don't agree, but its true.
Obviously, you have not paid attention to the Patriots in recent years. Their OL has been a disaster- between season ending injuries forcing untested players into action and exposing extreme lack of depth.
In spite of the poor OL play, Brady has succeeded.
Sorry if that hurts your Eli is the victim narrative, but its true.
I wouldn’t pretend to know and I doubt you do either but we do know DG disagrees with you. BTW does this “better competition” have a name and was this better competition available to be brought in.
Well, he really is fighting to keep a roster spot as opposed to being a starter, so he had to do something.
The Patriots, even with Moss were not considered a vertical team. And as much as I abhor Fantasy Football's impact on fans, it was a significant reason that Brady was only slightly above average from a Fantasy standpoint.
He's always had slot receivers and receiving TE's with receiving backs to spread the ball around and get the ball out quickly. There's little that changed over the years from the philosophy standpoint, and I'm not even sure what bearing the knee injury had - he was the same player post-injury.
Saying something is true doesn't make it so, especially when the evidence doesn't support it.
The Patriots, even with Moss were not considered a vertical team. And as much as I abhor Fantasy Football's impact on fans, it was a significant reason that Brady was only slightly above average from a Fantasy standpoint.
He's always had slot receivers and receiving TE's with receiving backs to spread the ball around and get the ball out quickly. There's little that changed over the years from the philosophy standpoint, and I'm not even sure what bearing the knee injury had - he was the same player post-injury.
Saying something is true doesn't make it so, especially when the evidence doesn't support it.
You claim to be using evidence. Show it- because I guarantee you that you can't.
Also his comment on Brady making his linemen better is the exact counter pt to those who seem to be in denial about Eli’s role in the poor performances of the past several years.
The statement is a crock. After Solder's son got sick and he (understandably) didn't do well at all... and consequently neither did New England. They struggled until they hit their stride at the end of the year. Yeah, OL play matters, even for New England.
Wheeler could have improved but I doubt it. Remmers will start if he is healthy enough. We would love to see Wheeler take a bigger leap, but the chances are slim.
Evidence:
- Brady's YPA have remained eerily constant in his career. Right around 7.5 for his career. In fact, his YPA has trended upward in recent years, not downward
- The percentages of time he has been under center vs in the shotgun has remained constant throughout his career, never deviating more than 5% in a single season. That's consistency.
-But what has also remained consistent is that the % of passes thrown under 10 yards, between 11-20, from 21-30 and 31+ hasn't changed in any particular year by a deviation of more than 7%. He actually has thrown a higher % on 31+ yard passes in the last two years than he did early in his career, but the % change is only 4% higher
Perhaps you can share evidence of the "sorry but it's true" mantra.
As for Wheeler, he has only been in the NFL for two years. When he was signed he needed to get stronger. Now with his second full offseason with the team he could be ready to take the next step next season. That would go a long way towards stabilizing the future of the offensive line if he could lock down the RT spot. Hernandez, Halapio, and Wheeler all could be the answer for the next 4-5 years. Wheeler and Hernandez obviously longer than that. Then hopefully at least one out of Asafo-Adjei, Evan Brown, James O'Hagan, Paul Adams, Nick Gates, and Austin Droogsma surprise.