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LeCharles Bentley analyzes the Giants Offensive Line

Ira : 5/20/2019 7:44 am
First, thanks to Defenderdawg for including this article in his Monday Reading. I've started a separate thread, because it's a very interesting article about a very important topic and I think you'll enjoy reading it through. Bentley comments on each player and the line as a whole. I found his analysis interesting and informative.
O-Line guru: Giants trio can restore unit’s glory days - ( New Window )
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God, I hope he’s right  
exiled : 5/20/2019 8:07 am : link
Even a mediocre OL would be a huge step up at this point.
Whenever..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 8:22 am : link
Halapio is brought up, he has such polarizing takes. You have some who think he's terrible.

so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:

Quote:
Halapio

“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’
RE: Whenever..  
The_Boss : 5/20/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14449489 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Halapio is brought up, he has such polarizing takes. You have some who think he's terrible.

so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:



Quote:


Halapio

“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’


He’s definitely entitled to his opinion as a former player who runs his offseason OL camp. Wasn’t he also talking up John Jerry a few years back? I think Halapio is average at best and someone the organization should look to upgrade from next spring.
His opinion of Wheeler  
joeinpa : 5/20/2019 8:32 am : link
Is quite a contrast to what you normally hear/read. But by most accounts Wheeler is pretty athletic which is a reason I ve held out some hope for him

Also his comment on Brady making his linemen better is the exact counter pt to those who seem to be in denial about Eli’s role in the poor performances of the past several years.

There it is.  
Diver_Down : 5/20/2019 8:35 am : link
For all you that had taken the under set at 5 for the first post to take a dig at Eli on a thread that has nothing to do with him, you win.
That was a very encouraging take  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2019 8:37 am : link
I know the Giants are obviously high on Halapio but it's also to see someone like Bentley rave about him. He is high on Wheeler too which is interesting. Hopefully he is right and Wheeler just needed competition to bring out his best. It will be an exciting to see how the young OL perform during training camp and the preseason.
I think Halalpio  
RollBlue : 5/20/2019 8:39 am : link
is a great story, and seems like an easy guy to root for, so I am hopeful. From what limited action time he had last year, didn't look that promising. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we'll find out.
There have been some on here  
Big Blue '56 : 5/20/2019 8:39 am : link
who know about OLs who believe Halapio can be a good one..
Its nice to hear  
cjac : 5/20/2019 8:50 am : link
that Wheeler is a lot better than a lot of us think

that RT competition in camp will be something to watch now
RE: RE: Whenever..  
crick n NC : 5/20/2019 8:50 am : link
In comment 14449497 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14449489 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


Halapio is brought up, he has such polarizing takes. You have some who think he's terrible.

so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:



Quote:


Halapio

“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’




He’s definitely entitled to his opinion as a former player who runs his offseason OL camp. Wasn’t he also talking up John Jerry a few years back? I think Halapio is average at best and someone the organization should look to upgrade from next spring.


Jerry had all of the tools to be a good OL. Bentley can only see their outside skills. He probably isn't in a good position to know what makes that player tick or how much they want it.
I like Halapio  
GothamGiants : 5/20/2019 8:51 am : link
Not as much as L.B., but I dont think he’s a liability either

Hernandez and Zeitler, 1 of the best G tandems in the league, should help whoever is at C.

RT was, and still continues to be, my primary concern. If Remmers returns to form (at tackle), this OL is going to be good.
I have always like Halapio more than most here  
Capt. Don : 5/20/2019 8:56 am : link
My hope is that he turns into an above average center.
I have no idea if Wheeler has the potential to be good  
Greg from LI : 5/20/2019 8:57 am : link
But I do know he was terrible on the field last year.

In addition to Jerry, Bentley used to rave about Geoff Schwartz when he was in Bentley's training program. That didn't exactly work out well.

There's been an avalanche of happy talk optimism about how all these guys the Giants have are going to improve, but until we see something happening on the field in real games, it's all just talk. We'll find out the truth soon enough.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Solder  
George from PA : 5/20/2019 9:01 am : link
And with his ankle, i would not be surprise to see Wheeler play LT during his absense..to get him ready as the swing tackle.

I am one who feels Wheeler best position is LT.....curious to see how it goes.
RE: There it is.  
rich in DC : 5/20/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14449505 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
For all you that had taken the under set at 5 for the first post to take a dig at Eli on a thread that has nothing to do with him, you win.


You can defend Eli to the end if you want, but the poster is not wrong. Brady has changed the way he plays to adapt to the way defense in the NFL has changed. Eli hasn't.

Now, that isn't to say that it is all Eli's fault. The offensive game plans have been lacking for a number of years. The Patriots have not given Brady much in the way of OL for years- but the game plan is superior to what the Giants put together.

Nevertheless the point remains that the Giants have significantly upgraded their OL and RB positions. They did trade away a true #1 WR- but have n ice #2-#4 WR, and maybe a #1 emerges. The receiving TE appears to be an emerging strength.

At this point, the rest is up to Eli. Jones should do everything he can to learn from Eli, but if the Giants were wise, they would give him some Brady tape to study- and in fact, I would give the Giants offensive brain trust tapes of Brady to watch and learn how to put together a viable game plan.
Whoa...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 9:04 am : link
Brady has changed the way he plays??
And that's.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 9:05 am : link
really contradictory to say Brady has changed the way he plays - but then say it is the gameplan behind it.
What is Brady doing  
LS : 5/20/2019 9:14 am : link
differently than he did in the past?
RE: Whenever..  
Britt in VA : 5/20/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14449489 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Halapio is brought up, he has such polarizing takes. You have some who think he's terrible.

so I have to like it when a former OL guy gives this write-up:



Quote:


Halapio

“When you watch his film and you watch him play, this dude is a football player, period. Now, he doesn’t have the pedigree everyone loves to talk about but not everybody in this league is going to be one of those 4 percenters that has the pedigree. He’s the type of person you want to do well because he’s had to fight for every single thing throughout his career. I thought last year if he had stayed healthy he would have finished as one of the top five centers in the league in terms of performance. With Hernandez, with Zeitler next to him, that dude, end of the year, if he’s healthy, he will be a top-five center in the National Football League.’’



That's more or less what Shurmur said about him, as well. That as a former center himself he can recognize some of those types of characteristics.
I've said this before about Halapio:  
Klaatu : 5/20/2019 9:16 am : link
1. I don't think he ever played Center before the Giants gave him a shot at it, so you wouldn't expect him to be Mike Webster right out of the box.

2. It's a shame that he got hurt so early, because we never got to see if he would improve as the season progressed. Bentley seems to believe that he would have...which is nice.

As for Wheeler, I don't have much faith in him at all. Maybe he'll surprise me, but I doubt it. Still, he's got another year to try, so good luck to him.
RE: RE: There it is.  
Milton : 5/20/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14449549 rich in DC said:
Quote:
Brady has changed the way he plays to adapt to the way defense in the NFL has changed. Eli hasn't.
It's not for the QB to change the way he plays, it's for the offensive coordinator to adapt the game plan to the strengths and weaknesses of the offensive talent.
Having Wheeler and Halapio  
George : 5/20/2019 9:17 am : link
playing at an above-average level is my football wet dream of 2019.
I guaranteed you Brady....  
Britt in VA : 5/20/2019 9:18 am : link
has never played behind a line as poor as some of the ones Manning has played behind the past couple of years, namely 2013, 2017, and the start of 2018.
Halapio will be 28 years old next season  
Greg from LI : 5/20/2019 9:19 am : link
and he has appeared in a grand total of 12 NFL games. The fact that the Giants seem content to simply pencil him in as their starter seems astonishingly reckless no matter how highly they might think of him.
So much offensive line play is based on communication and...  
Crispino : 5/20/2019 9:20 am : link
cohesion. There’s no telling what kind of benefit bringing in seasoned guys like Remmers and Zeitler will have on the younger, less experienced guys.i think there’s cause for optimism. Can’t get much worse, and the guys they brought in should help raise the level of the overall unit performance.
Spot on. While changes (for the good) continue at OL  
Jimmy Googs : 5/20/2019 9:24 am : link
do not expect much early as they simply haven't played with one another at all.

Add in recovery time for Solder and this could actually look like a bit of a shit-show at times...
None of us are in any position to judge Halapio...  
Milton : 5/20/2019 9:26 am : link
...based on such a small sample size. That doesn't mean that Bentley, Shurmur, and Gettleman are right, but it's two former centers and a professional talent evaluator who emphasizes the OL we're talking about, not Stevie Wonder and Mr. Magoo.
Hard to completely buy what he says about Wheeler  
BillT : 5/20/2019 9:27 am : link
I’m not claiming to know anything about evaluating OL play but that Wheeler struggled last year isn’t a mystery. That he sees some upside is great but I’d be shocked if he’s ready to unseat Remmers. Got to love what he says about Halapio. It’s what DG said as well.
Wheeler still has to continue to develop, but in his defense  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/20/2019 9:27 am : link
He has already accomplished far more than most college undrafted FA OTs, priority signing or not.

As example, take Remmers career path. Most of these guys at the end of year 2 are bubble players on a roster, or hoping that their agent can find them a landing spot on a PS.
Wheeler improved a lot last year. I said this in another thread.  
Brown Recluse : 5/20/2019 9:28 am : link
For some reason its a difficult thing for people to grasp. Maybe because its hard to erase some of the awful plays we've seen him involved in. But he got better last year.

One of his biggest issues has been play strength. He just hasn't been strong enough. But when it comes to knowing his assignments and his effort in executing them, he's been doing much better.

The guy gained about 15 lbs this offseason. We'll see how it translates on the field, but if his play strength continues to improve - we might have a solid option here.
RE: Halapio will be 28 years old next season  
BillT : 5/20/2019 9:32 am : link
In comment 14449579 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
and he has appeared in a grand total of 12 NFL games. The fact that the Giants seem content to simply pencil him in as their starter seems astonishingly reckless no matter how highly they might think of him.

But, of course, they didn’t do that they signed Pulley to provide competition at least if not a chance to win the starting job. So there’s that.
Pulley stinks  
Greg from LI : 5/20/2019 9:35 am : link
I'm saying they needed to bring in better competition for Halapio
RE: There it is.  
joeinpa : 5/20/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14449505 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
For all you that had taken the under set at 5 for the first post to take a dig at Eli on a thread that has nothing to do with him, you win.


Kind of sensitive there fella. Wasn’t my intent to take dig at Eli. Was thinking more along the lines of why taking a quarterback at 6 was the right Thing to do.

But whatever
RE: Halapio will be 28 years old next season  
Klaatu : 5/20/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14449579 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
and he has appeared in a grand total of 12 NFL games. The fact that the Giants seem content to simply pencil him in as their starter seems astonishingly reckless no matter how highly they might think of him.


"No guts, no glory." - Dave Gettleman.
RE: Halapio will be 28 years old next season  
Milton : 5/20/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14449579 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
and he has appeared in a grand total of 12 NFL games. The fact that the Giants seem content to simply pencil him in as their starter seems astonishingly reckless no matter how highly they might think of him.
Why? First of all, they re-signed Pulley as an experienced backup; second of all, how much does Shurmur and Hunter have to see of the guy before they form an opinion on his talent, ability, and character? This isn't me and you gauging Halapio, it's people with experience at evaluating talent. And their jobs are on their line. I seriously doubt they are being "astonishingly reckless".
This OL by comparison can not possibly look like a sgit show  
George from PA : 5/20/2019 9:41 am : link
Even if it becomes a turnstile.

Remember Flowers and Hart.

...these individuals "by comparison" look like a wall of granite.

Brady has been blessed with one of the best OL coaches....

Brady looked like shit when being scrapped off the ground on every play
the real weakness in the offensive line last year was up the middle  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/20/2019 9:55 am : link
(particularly in the first half against stunts and internal pressure) that impacted the OTs because if they swung players out behind the QB, the QB couldn't step up. Hopefully, with the new additions and second year for the rookie they will be solid inside.

I read the article this morning and I was completely stunned by his positive take on Wheeler. Hope he is right. Glad Remmers is here to establish a floor on RT performance.
RE: This OL by comparison can not possibly look like a sgit show  
GothamGiants : 5/20/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14449617 George from PA said:
Quote:
Even if it becomes a turnstile.

Remember Flowers and Hart.

...these individuals "by comparison" look like a wall of granite.

Brady has been blessed with one of the best OL coaches....

Brady looked like shit when being scrapped off the ground on every play


Thank you. Anyone complaining about this OL needs to go back and watch Hart/Flowers

Worst tandem I’ve ever seen
Dotino re: Wheeler  
V.I.G. : 5/20/2019 10:03 am : link
He said that he put on 25lbs of muscle during the offseason. He's not going down without a fight. Find that v interesting.
RE: And that's.  
rich in DC : 5/20/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14449554 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
really contradictory to say Brady has changed the way he plays - but then say it is the gameplan behind it.


No, it isn't. Do you seriously think Brady has no voice in the game plan? After the knee injury, he realized he could not continue to sit back in the pocket and wait for his receivers to run deep routes and get open.

He and the coordinators (and likely Belichek) cam up with a new plan- horizontal patterns that were shorter and faster developing. The change was the he had to get the ball out fast and accurately as opposed to letting his receivers get open. He would be throwing to a spot where his receiver would be, depending on the pre-snap read.

That was a major shift in offensive philosophy for the team. Gone was the Randy Moss vertical offense and in was the slot guy in a footrace across the field to get the ball at full speed and in an open spot.

Sorry if you don't agree, but its true.
RE: I guaranteed you Brady....  
rich in DC : 5/20/2019 10:06 am : link
In comment 14449576 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
has never played behind a line as poor as some of the ones Manning has played behind the past couple of years, namely 2013, 2017, and the start of 2018.


Obviously, you have not paid attention to the Patriots in recent years. Their OL has been a disaster- between season ending injuries forcing untested players into action and exposing extreme lack of depth.

In spite of the poor OL play, Brady has succeeded.

Sorry if that hurts your Eli is the victim narrative, but its true.
RE: Pulley stinks  
BillT : 5/20/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14449604 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm saying they needed to bring in better competition for Halapio

I wouldn’t pretend to know and I doubt you do either but we do know DG disagrees with you. BTW does this “better competition” have a name and was this better competition available to be brought in.
RE: Dotino re: Wheeler  
rich in DC : 5/20/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14449644 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
He said that he put on 25lbs of muscle during the offseason. He's not going down without a fight. Find that v interesting.


Well, he really is fighting to keep a roster spot as opposed to being a starter, so he had to do something.
You keep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 10:13 am : link
saying "Sorry but it is true", but it really isn't.

The Patriots, even with Moss were not considered a vertical team. And as much as I abhor Fantasy Football's impact on fans, it was a significant reason that Brady was only slightly above average from a Fantasy standpoint.

He's always had slot receivers and receiving TE's with receiving backs to spread the ball around and get the ball out quickly. There's little that changed over the years from the philosophy standpoint, and I'm not even sure what bearing the knee injury had - he was the same player post-injury.

Saying something is true doesn't make it so, especially when the evidence doesn't support it.
At the end of last season, I was skeptical about Halapio and had  
Ira : 5/20/2019 10:17 am : link
given up on Wheeler. Now I find myself being mildly optimistic about Halapio and open minded about Wheeler. I hope my more recent point of view is more correct than the former.
RE: You keep..  
rich in DC : 5/20/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14449659 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
saying "Sorry but it is true", but it really isn't.

The Patriots, even with Moss were not considered a vertical team. And as much as I abhor Fantasy Football's impact on fans, it was a significant reason that Brady was only slightly above average from a Fantasy standpoint.

He's always had slot receivers and receiving TE's with receiving backs to spread the ball around and get the ball out quickly. There's little that changed over the years from the philosophy standpoint, and I'm not even sure what bearing the knee injury had - he was the same player post-injury.

Saying something is true doesn't make it so, especially when the evidence doesn't support it.


You claim to be using evidence. Show it- because I guarantee you that you can't.
RE: His opinion of Wheeler  
Johnny5 : 5/20/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14449501 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Is quite a contrast to what you normally hear/read. But by most accounts Wheeler is pretty athletic which is a reason I ve held out some hope for him

Also his comment on Brady making his linemen better is the exact counter pt to those who seem to be in denial about Eli’s role in the poor performances of the past several years.

The statement is a crock. After Solder's son got sick and he (understandably) didn't do well at all... and consequently neither did New England. They struggled until they hit their stride at the end of the year. Yeah, OL play matters, even for New England.
The stuff they said about Halapio  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/20/2019 10:22 am : link
is by no way a ringing endorsement. He basically said he's earned everything he has, and now because he's in between 2 legit guards he should be top 5.

Wheeler could have improved but I doubt it. Remmers will start if he is healthy enough. We would love to see Wheeler take a bigger leap, but the chances are slim.
Your guarantees suck..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/20/2019 10:30 am : link
as much as your "sorry but it's true" bullshit.

Evidence:
- Brady's YPA have remained eerily constant in his career. Right around 7.5 for his career. In fact, his YPA has trended upward in recent years, not downward

- The percentages of time he has been under center vs in the shotgun has remained constant throughout his career, never deviating more than 5% in a single season. That's consistency.

-But what has also remained consistent is that the % of passes thrown under 10 yards, between 11-20, from 21-30 and 31+ hasn't changed in any particular year by a deviation of more than 7%. He actually has thrown a higher % on 31+ yard passes in the last two years than he did early in his career, but the % change is only 4% higher

Perhaps you can share evidence of the "sorry but it's true" mantra.
I am looking forward to seeing the offensive line this season  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2019 10:45 am : link
Halapio is receiving praise from quite a few sources which is encouraging especially since some are not tied to the team. I am not a fan of Pulley but I am excited about the potential of Evan Brown and James O'Hagan. If Pulley hasn't gotten significantly stronger this offseason then I would love to see both of those two make the team over him.

As for Wheeler, he has only been in the NFL for two years. When he was signed he needed to get stronger. Now with his second full offseason with the team he could be ready to take the next step next season. That would go a long way towards stabilizing the future of the offensive line if he could lock down the RT spot. Hernandez, Halapio, and Wheeler all could be the answer for the next 4-5 years. Wheeler and Hernandez obviously longer than that. Then hopefully at least one out of Asafo-Adjei, Evan Brown, James O'Hagan, Paul Adams, Nick Gates, and Austin Droogsma surprise.
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