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NFT: Nats at Mets Game 1. Nightmare stretch continues

ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:15 pm
Mets Lineup

Jeff McNeil 2B
Amed Rosario SS
J.D. Davis LF
Pete Alonso 1B
Wilson Ramos C
Todd Frazier 3B
Carlos Gomez RF
Juan Lagares CF
Wilmer Font RHP

Nationals Lineup

Trea Turner SS
Adam Eaton RF
Anthony Rendon 3B
Juan Soto LF
Howie Kendrick 2B
Gerardo Parra 1B
Victor Robles CF
Yan Gomes C
Patrick Corbin LHP

Welp. It cant get much worse than getting swept by the Marlins. Miraculously, Mickey not only has a job but BVW has endorsed him and has given him a vote of confidence. To make matters worse Cespedes has broken his ankles dicking around on his ranch after he had just cleared a huge hurdle by starting to run again. Lowrie still hasn't played a game this year. One of our best hitters is out with a concussion and we are going to go with Font presumably one more time before Vargas returns who got tattooed his last game. Meanwhile the Nats have Rendon back and are throwing their best three at us. Should be fun! Hope for the best! LGM!
Also, Im sorry but you need your top players to  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:25 pm : link
perform. Even the most optimistic of us had us in the mix for the playoffs this year but nobody had us winning a 100 games. If your going to win 85-90 games and be in the mix you need your star players to perform. deGrom and his nice cushy deal has been good for a 4 ERA. Wheeler, Syndergaard, Nimmo have all underperformed. All of our additions have been disappointing (Cano, Familia, Ramos, Lowrie.). And for what its worth I seem to remember other posters happy about the Ramos deal, the Familia deal, thinking Cano had 1-2 years left at least, etc. I certainly wasn't the only one pleased with our offseason.

It is what it is, but its not surprising we are at where we are by examining this roster. Its not just on the front office. Players need play up the back of their baseball cards as well.

That said, Mickey certainly hasn't helped matters.
Starting to think the BVW  
pjcas18 : 5/20/2019 6:29 pm : link
era could be short lived. I agree, players have to play, and the Mets SHOULD be better than this, and I hate evaluating a GM after 7 weeks of a season, but quotes like this are head scratchers:


Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO

Van Wagenen, “I will be the one, along with the rest of the front office team, that will continue to make improvements to this roster as we go forward like we have today with the purchase of Hector Santiago’s contract.”
4:41 PM - 20 May 2019
Wow he really said that?  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:30 pm : link
Ewwww.
Yes maybe  
XBRONX : 5/20/2019 6:32 pm : link
Hector can recapture the magic of 2015. The team and front office continue to me a joke.
Hector Santiago  
PhiPsi125 : 5/20/2019 6:35 pm : link
Hey! Another former all star! This team is FULL of former all stars.

I am truly dumbfounded how this plan hasn’t worked out. I mean, they were all once all stars!!!
That's nonsense - Wheeler is 9th most valuable SP, Thor #22, JDG #28  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2019 6:37 pm : link
Alonso, McNeil, Conforto are playing above their baseball cards (Rosario too, at least offensively) - which is half of the offense.

So who isn't?

Cano. The signature addition of the offseason.
Nimmo.
Ramos.
most of the BP (including Diaz the other signature addition).
The SP beyond the top 5 have been automatic L's.

And perhaps impacting every pitcher on the team, the defense has been absolutely brutal. That wasn't completely unexpected, but nobody thought it would be this bad. This roster is currently -38 in DRS (2nd worst). Dodgers are on the exact opposite end at +55. We were worried about Alonso's defense and he's been the best defender on the IF by a mile. Perhaps that's why our big 3 pitchers are under-pitching their peripherals and have babip higher than most of the other names on this leaderboard?
Fangraphs pitching leaderboard - ( New Window )
RE: That's nonsense - Wheeler is 9th most valuable SP, Thor #22, JDG #28  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14450318 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Alonso, McNeil, Conforto are playing above their baseball cards (Rosario too, at least offensively) - which is half of the offense.

So who isn't?

Cano. The signature addition of the offseason.
Nimmo.
Ramos.
most of the BP (including Diaz the other signature addition).
The SP beyond the top 5 have been automatic L's.

And perhaps impacting every pitcher on the team, the defense has been absolutely brutal. That wasn't completely unexpected, but nobody thought it would be this bad. This roster is currently -38 in DRS (2nd worst). Dodgers are on the exact opposite end at +55. We were worried about Alonso's defense and he's been the best defender on the IF by a mile. Perhaps that's why our big 3 pitchers are under-pitching their peripherals and have babip higher than most of the other names on this leaderboard? Fangraphs pitching leaderboard - ( New Window )


So you thought deGrom was going to perform like the 28th best pitcher in baseball this year? Not sure what you are pulling from, guessing fWAR which is fine bu I listed out the players who have underperformed and they are players we were clearly expecting to get more from. Our overall pitching ERA is bottom of the pack.

I do think most of these guys will rebound, and some likely already have (Wheeler/Thor) but Im simply stating it's not a shocker being 4-5 games under .500 based on the performance of these guys. And yes defense can be included in that if you like.
I prefer fWAR to bWAR  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:47 pm : link
So Im playing devils advocate but if you head over to Baseball Reference it gets even uglier.
Link - ( New Window )
Wow Rich Coutinho  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:55 pm : link
Gives a glowing report about the Mets decision to keep Mickey.
Link - ( New Window )
Not likely but...  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 6:58 pm : link
This is the game if you could somehow win, it cold definitely add a little jolt. Putrid lineup and a huge SP mismatch. Its baseball though. Anything can happen. Get a win, clear Font, get Wheeler, deGrom, Matz, Thor going and we might be able to steer this thing in a different direction.

And that's probably as much optimism as you will get out of me tonight.
Nice job Rosario...  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 7:30 pm : link
Let's Go.
Well...  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 8:21 pm : link
Here we go. 4-0 good guys. Not saying it's likely but if we can take this one and get a little luck for once... (Conforto back soon, Vargas back pushing Font to the pen, maybe some good news on Lowrie's hamstring eventually....) maybe we can inch back.
Kay is emerging as a true stud.  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 8:32 pm : link
Anthony Kay so far: 4.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K.
Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
pjcas18 : 5/20/2019 8:41 pm : link
for....Anthony Swarzak.
RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 8:44 pm : link
In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
for....Anthony Swarzak.


That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.
.  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 8:45 pm : link
Kay perfect through 5 innings. 6 Ks, ERA down to 1.11 for the season, and only 65 pitches.
Actually, Swarzak has been pretty bad  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 8:47 pm : link
Only 13 innings though...
Didn't  
DanMetroMan : 5/20/2019 9:20 pm : link
want Brodie and I hate to say "I told you so...." but he was the wrong hire... hired because his vision was closest to Jeff's.
Kay 7ip, 0h, 1BB, 7K  
Metnut : 5/20/2019 9:28 pm : link
Kid looking good.

Mets really need to close this out. This fan base deserves a happy night for once.
RE: Didn't  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14450476 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
want Brodie and I hate to say "I told you so...." but he was the wrong hire... hired because his vision was closest to Jeff's.

Also had the best media persona. I went back and read the article Rosenthal wrote overviewing the final 2 contenders for the job and it's eery how well he pegged what the Wilpons saw in BVW and what the downsides were.
Quote:
Why would the Mets hire Van Wagenen, an agent with zero experience in baseball operations, over a rising star such as Bloom, who fits the mold of many recent hires for top executive positions, not to mention the mold the Giants currently are seeking for their own opening?

Perhaps because Mets majority owner Fred Wilpon and his son Jeff believe they would draw praise for an outside-the-box choice. Perhaps because they are familiar with Van Wagenen, who represents some of the team’s biggest stars — pitchers Jacob deGrom and Noah Syndergaard, outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, third baseman Todd Frazier. Perhaps because they think Van Wagenen would be more polished with the media than Bloom, a factor that should not be as important to the Wilpons as it always seems to be.


At this point the only thing that makes me somewhat hopeful is that he hired a lot of well regarded people in the FO, but at the same time none of them told him the Cano move was stupid so who knows (though in fairness I guess most of them hadn't been hired yet at that point).
Rosenthal: For the Mets, two candidates remain but one clear choice - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2019 9:42 pm : link
In comment 14450455 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for....Anthony Swarzak.



That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.


Not really considering he was both a movable contract and at worst usable in the BP. They went out and spent the same amount of money on the same level player (Wilson) so dumping him didn't really matter, just helped them rationalize trading for Cano.
RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
Jay on the Island : 5/20/2019 9:47 pm : link
In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
for....Anthony Swarzak.

It was a salary dump. Viz is out for the season and is a free agent at seasons end. Biddle has been horrific this year but was solid last year.
actually my response to DMM was a little overly negative on BVW  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2019 9:50 pm : link
I think the Cano trade was bad and is now bordering on disaster, but I liked most of the rest of what he did and think he has some good thoughts. My biggest issues are with what he didn't do (Gio!) but I think he's a smart guy who will hopefully learn from mistakes. Will he learn from his mistakes and adapt quickly to assembling winning teams vs. a client list?

Today he smartly took responsibility for the roster and gave himself flexibility to can Mickey if he doesn't turn things around in the next couple weeks. Which I fully expect to happen, so then we'll see how he pivots.
RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
ZGiants98 : 5/20/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14450490 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14450455 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for....Anthony Swarzak.



That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.



Not really considering he was both a movable contract and at worst usable in the BP. They went out and spent the same amount of money on the same level player (Wilson) so dumping him didn't really matter, just helped them rationalize trading for Cano.


Lol. Wilson was coming off a much better season and has a much better track record than Swarzak.
RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
schabadoo : 5/20/2019 11:21 pm : link
In comment 14450490 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14450455 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for....Anthony Swarzak.



That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.



Not really considering he was both a movable contract and at worst usable in the BP. They went out and spent the same amount of money on the same level player (Wilson) so dumping him didn't really matter, just helped them rationalize trading for Cano.


2 yrs/$14 million - 4.2 career ERA
2 yrs/$10 million - 3.3 career ERA

Correct me, maybe I have these details wrong.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
Eric on Li : 5/20/2019 11:59 pm : link
In comment 14450529 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14450490 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 14450455 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for....Anthony Swarzak.



That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.



Not really considering he was both a movable contract and at worst usable in the BP. They went out and spent the same amount of money on the same level player (Wilson) so dumping him didn't really matter, just helped them rationalize trading for Cano.



Lol. Wilson was coming off a much better season and has a much better track record than Swarzak.


Yawn. Last year you called Swarzak 1 of the best setup guys in baseball. In reality they're both mediocre veteran middle relievers. Wilson more consistent, Swarzak bigger potential. Neither moves the needle nor matters all that much.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
Eric on Li : 5/21/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14450590 schabadoo said:
Quote:

2 yrs/$14 million - 4.2 career ERA
2 yrs/$10 million - 3.3 career ERA

Correct me, maybe I have these details wrong.


The only detail that's wrong is that Swarzak only had 1 year remaining when they dealt him, so they actually spent more in total replacing him with Wilson, but obviously less per year.

As mentioned above they are both mediocre veteran middle relievers. Every team in baseball cycles through 1 or 2 guys like them every year. Fernando Salas, Bastardo, etc. For each of their 5+ season careers they have been worth a total of 3 fwar and 5 fwar respectively. Neither matters all that much.

If saving money on Swarzak allowed them to go out and sign Bryce Harper and stay under the luxury tax that would be 1 thing. Replacing him with a similar pitcher made the move meaningless.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
schabadoo : 5/21/2019 12:20 am : link
In comment 14450604 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14450590 schabadoo said:


Quote:



2 yrs/$14 million - 4.2 career ERA
2 yrs/$10 million - 3.3 career ERA

Correct me, maybe I have these details wrong.



The only detail that's wrong is that Swarzak only had 1 year remaining when they dealt him, so they actually spent more in total replacing him with Wilson, but obviously less per year.

As mentioned above they are both mediocre veteran middle relievers. Every team in baseball cycles through 1 or 2 guys like them every year. Fernando Salas, Bastardo, etc. For each of their 5+ season careers they have been worth a total of 3 fwar and 5 fwar respectively. Neither matters all that much.

If saving money on Swarzak allowed them to go out and sign Bryce Harper and stay under the luxury tax that would be 1 thing. Replacing him with a similar pitcher made the move meaningless.


Besides costing less per year and having a career ERA almost one run lower, they're basically the same.

Thank you for this.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Braves traded Vizcaino and Biddle  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14450601 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14450529 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14450490 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 14450455 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14450451 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for....Anthony Swarzak.



That's funny. I liked Swarzak. Just a injury riddled lost season last year.... Made sense including him in a salary swap though IMO.



Not really considering he was both a movable contract and at worst usable in the BP. They went out and spent the same amount of money on the same level player (Wilson) so dumping him didn't really matter, just helped them rationalize trading for Cano.



Lol. Wilson was coming off a much better season and has a much better track record than Swarzak.



Yawn. Last year you called Swarzak 1 of the best setup guys in baseball. In reality they're both mediocre veteran middle relievers. Wilson more consistent, Swarzak bigger potential. Neither moves the needle nor matters all that much.


False. I said he was one of the best relievers in baseball the year prior. Major difference. Wilson was a closer at one point and again, has had much bigger sample of success. Also your point makes zero sense as you were advocating keeping Swarzak coming off a disaster season, not the year prior. And that's really rich... you saying bullpen relievers don't move the needle that much after your decade long bitch fest regarding our pens.
Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
Eric on Li : 5/21/2019 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14451342 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:

False. I said he was one of the best relievers in baseball the year prior. Major difference.

like "Brandon Nimmo was the 2nd best offensive player in baseball last year"?

Quote:
Wilson was a closer at one point and again, has had much bigger sample of success.


15 career saves for Wilson
9 for Swarzak

Quote:
Also your point makes zero sense as you were advocating keeping Swarzak coming off a disaster season, not the year prior.

I never once advocated that keeping him mattered, just that dumping him was inconsequential. Made even more inconsequential by dolling out $10m on a comparable player to backfill him. And now spending another $2m on Santiago.

Quote:
And that's really rich... you saying bullpen relievers don't move the needle that much after your decade long bitch fest regarding our pens.


I have always advocated for multiple high end relievers - not half ass'ing things with volatile middle relievers - going back to our arguments over Andrew Miller vs. Vic Black in what 2014? I have always been opposed to thinking young guys will just magically develop because they throw 95 mph or mediocre 6th/7th inning relievers will just be able to step up to handle higher pressure situations. I'd say that theory has held up pretty well the past several years as the Mets org went a decade between signing a FA reliever to a deal longer than 2 years and instead penciled in countless scrap heapers or unproven young guys at their own peril. Pretty sure they've been a bottom 5 BP over that period of time by fwar.

It's not rocket science, most of the time you get what you pay for - and both Wilson/Swarzak were paid as mediocre middle relief options. Like Fernando Salas and Antonio Bastardo before them and so on. Time is a flat circle - complete with your enthusiastic support of everything this org does.
RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14451388 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14451342 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:



False. I said he was one of the best relievers in baseball the year prior. Major difference.


like "Brandon Nimmo was the 2nd best offensive player in baseball last year"?



Quote:


Wilson was a closer at one point and again, has had much bigger sample of success.



15 career saves for Wilson
9 for Swarzak



Quote:


Also your point makes zero sense as you were advocating keeping Swarzak coming off a disaster season, not the year prior.


I never once advocated that keeping him mattered, just that dumping him was inconsequential. Made even more inconsequential by dolling out $10m on a comparable player to backfill him. And now spending another $2m on Santiago.



Quote:


And that's really rich... you saying bullpen relievers don't move the needle that much after your decade long bitch fest regarding our pens.



I have always advocated for multiple high end relievers - not half ass'ing things with volatile middle relievers - going back to our arguments over Andrew Miller vs. Vic Black in what 2014? I have always been opposed to thinking young guys will just magically develop because they throw 95 mph or mediocre 6th/7th inning relievers will just be able to step up to handle higher pressure situations. I'd say that theory has held up pretty well the past several years as the Mets org went a decade between signing a FA reliever to a deal longer than 2 years and instead penciled in countless scrap heapers or unproven young guys at their own peril. Pretty sure they've been a bottom 5 BP over that period of time by fwar.

It's not rocket science, most of the time you get what you pay for - and both Wilson/Swarzak were paid as mediocre middle relief options. Like Fernando Salas and Antonio Bastardo before them and so on. Time is a flat circle - complete with your enthusiastic support of everything this org does.


I love how you take things I almost have said but twist them just enough and exaggerate them just enough to end up having them being complete flat out lies in the end. If it were anyone else I'd chalk it up to memory but your a POS who has had it out for me for since you've started posting here. You won't immediately blow up on me like a Dan used to but you're much more swarmy and slimy than any poster here could ever have been. You're a sideswiper and a story twister. No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.

Again, Wilson was a closer at one point and has had a much bigger sample of success. This will continue to be true regardless of how you deny it. Wilson had years and years of success. Swarzak had ONE year. Wilson was NOT equivalent to the signing of the Mets version of Salas. lol. Holy exaggeration. Clearing 1 fWAR (You're new favorite stat) multiple times is VERY good for a reliever. There are closers all over baseball that have never done that. And I never said Vic Black was better than Miller. I might have said money could be allocated better elsewhere and relievers are volitile (at the time Miller was coming off one solid season) and this remains to be true around baseball today. The dude you cried about the Mets not brining back for about a year and half straight in Addison Reed ended up bing complete shit last year and is now out of baseball.
RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
Jay on the Island : 5/21/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.

Actually Nimmo wasn't the second best offensive player in the NL. He was excellent last season but Juan Soto and Ronald Acuna Jr. had higher wRC+. I think we can all agree that Soto and Acuna Jr. were better offensive players last year. That's not taking anything away from Nimmo because he far exceeded my expectations.
RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14451570 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.



Actually Nimmo wasn't the second best offensive player in the NL. He was excellent last season but Juan Soto and Ronald Acuna Jr. had higher wRC+. I think we can all agree that Soto and Acuna Jr. were better offensive players last year. That's not taking anything away from Nimmo because he far exceeded my expectations.


We've had this conversation before. When I mentioned it was based off "qualified players". Soto and Acuna weren't. I posted the link and backed it up. Why posters feel the need to nitpick and twist minutia to make a point wrong is beyond me anyway. Nimmo was really really really good last year. That was clearly my end game to begin with and my only point and it is 100% accurate.
Here is the link  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:25 pm : link
again.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
Jay on the Island : 5/21/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14451575 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14451570 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.



Actually Nimmo wasn't the second best offensive player in the NL. He was excellent last season but Juan Soto and Ronald Acuna Jr. had higher wRC+. I think we can all agree that Soto and Acuna Jr. were better offensive players last year. That's not taking anything away from Nimmo because he far exceeded my expectations.



We've had this conversation before. When I mentioned it was based off "qualified players". Soto and Acuna weren't. I posted the link and backed it up. Why posters feel the need to nitpick and twist minutia to make a point wrong is beyond me anyway. Nimmo was really really really good last year. That was clearly my end game to begin with and my only point and it is 100% accurate.

You didn't say "qualified players" above which is why I brought it up. Nimmo had a great season last year but calling him the second best offensive player in the NL last season isn't true. If you said he had the second highest wRC+ of those who qualified then that would be 100% accurate which I think is what you were trying to say but you left it more vague which incited the reaction. Soto was 6 AB's short of qualifying while Acuna Jr. was 13.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14451582 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14451575 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14451570 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.



Actually Nimmo wasn't the second best offensive player in the NL. He was excellent last season but Juan Soto and Ronald Acuna Jr. had higher wRC+. I think we can all agree that Soto and Acuna Jr. were better offensive players last year. That's not taking anything away from Nimmo because he far exceeded my expectations.



We've had this conversation before. When I mentioned it was based off "qualified players". Soto and Acuna weren't. I posted the link and backed it up. Why posters feel the need to nitpick and twist minutia to make a point wrong is beyond me anyway. Nimmo was really really really good last year. That was clearly my end game to begin with and my only point and it is 100% accurate.


You didn't say "qualified players" above which is why I brought it up. Nimmo had a great season last year but calling him the second best offensive player in the NL last season isn't true. If you said he had the second highest wRC+ of those who qualified then that would be 100% accurate which I think is what you were trying to say but you left it more vague which incited the reaction. Soto was 6 AB's short of qualifying while Acuna Jr. was 13.


Jay you brought this exact item up last time and we had this exact conversation last time. When I said it months back, it was based off of "qualified players". FG has a metric to determine the cutoff. Im not out looking for players to make the cutoff just to appease other fans. Its already done for me. If you want to argue they were better and say Nimmo was more top 5 or more top 7, great! That doesnt change my point one bit or what I said.
RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
Eric on Li : 5/21/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:


I love how you take things I almost have said but twist them just enough and exaggerate them just enough to end up having them being complete flat out lies in the end. If it were anyone else I'd chalk it up to memory but your a POS who has had it out for me for since you've started posting here. You won't immediately blow up on me like a Dan used to but you're much more swarmy and slimy than any poster here could ever have been. You're a sideswiper and a story twister. No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.

Again, Wilson was a closer at one point and has had a much bigger sample of success. This will continue to be true regardless of how you deny it. Wilson had years and years of success. Swarzak had ONE year. Wilson was NOT equivalent to the signing of the Mets version of Salas. lol. Holy exaggeration. Clearing 1 fWAR (You're new favorite stat) multiple times is VERY good for a reliever. There are closers all over baseball that have never done that. And I never said Vic Black was better than Miller. I might have said money could be allocated better elsewhere and relievers are volitile (at the time Miller was coming off one solid season) and this remains to be true around baseball today. The dude you cried about the Mets not brining back for about a year and half straight in Addison Reed ended up bing complete shit last year and is now out of baseball.


Caught me red handed, I've definitely had it out for you since I started posting here...10 years before your account existed. You should really consider seeking help. Somehow just about everyone else on these threads has reasonable conversations without drama except you.
Jay stop being swarmy and slimy  
Eric on Li : 5/21/2019 8:38 pm : link
we all see you story twisting and side swiping from a mile away.
I also know you are not one of these people  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:39 pm : link
And you are an awesome poster here, but there are people here who still grade offensive players off batting average and RBIs. When I made the comment about him being the second best offensive player in the NL, it was SHOCKING to certain posters. That's where the conversation split and went off the rails.... with those guys. You are not one of those guys.
RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:42 pm : link
In comment 14451592 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14451557 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:




I love how you take things I almost have said but twist them just enough and exaggerate them just enough to end up having them being complete flat out lies in the end. If it were anyone else I'd chalk it up to memory but your a POS who has had it out for me for since you've started posting here. You won't immediately blow up on me like a Dan used to but you're much more swarmy and slimy than any poster here could ever have been. You're a sideswiper and a story twister. No I never said Nimmo was the second best player in baseball last year. Nimmo was the second best offensive player in the NL last year, again... major difference. This was based off wRC+ which most of us (and most of the world that follows rudimentary advanced metrics acknowledges as the gold standard for offense) There is absolutely nothing wrong with that comment and there never will be.

Again, Wilson was a closer at one point and has had a much bigger sample of success. This will continue to be true regardless of how you deny it. Wilson had years and years of success. Swarzak had ONE year. Wilson was NOT equivalent to the signing of the Mets version of Salas. lol. Holy exaggeration. Clearing 1 fWAR (You're new favorite stat) multiple times is VERY good for a reliever. There are closers all over baseball that have never done that. And I never said Vic Black was better than Miller. I might have said money could be allocated better elsewhere and relievers are volitile (at the time Miller was coming off one solid season) and this remains to be true around baseball today. The dude you cried about the Mets not brining back for about a year and half straight in Addison Reed ended up bing complete shit last year and is now out of baseball.



Caught me red handed, I've definitely had it out for you since I started posting here...10 years before your account existed. You should really consider seeking help. Somehow just about everyone else on these threads has reasonable conversations without drama except you.


Yeah all 7 posters left lol. And Sure Eric.. Everything Ive said is true to a T and you know it. My account got reset with the BBI crash back in the early 2000s and I took a hiatus but Ive been here a long time too. You're actually a reasonable poster when it's not concerning me but you look for any angle you can to disagree with me or twist what Ive said to make me wrong as Ive pointed out in this thread very specifically. It's telling and it's sad.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
Jay on the Island : 5/21/2019 8:43 pm : link
In comment 14451591 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:


Jay you brought this exact item up last time and we had this exact conversation last time. When I said it months back, it was based off of "qualified players". FG has a metric to determine the cutoff. Im not out looking for players to make the cutoff just to appease other fans. Its already done for me. If you want to argue they were better and say Nimmo was more top 5 or more top 7, great! That doesnt change my point one bit or what I said.

Dude I have a wife and two kids do you honestly think I remember a conversation we had months ago? So your point was that Nimmo had a great season last year or he was a better offensive player than Soto and Acuna Jr? I agree that Nimmo was a top player in the NL but if your saying he was better than those two last season then I think your alone in that regard. My point obviously being the second best offensive player and having the second highest wRC+ of qualified players are two separate things.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Still need help with reading comprehension so we'll take these 1 by 1  
ZGiants98 : 5/21/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14451611 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14451591 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:




Jay you brought this exact item up last time and we had this exact conversation last time. When I said it months back, it was based off of "qualified players". FG has a metric to determine the cutoff. Im not out looking for players to make the cutoff just to appease other fans. Its already done for me. If you want to argue they were better and say Nimmo was more top 5 or more top 7, great! That doesnt change my point one bit or what I said.


Dude I have a wife and two kids do you honestly think I remember a conversation we had months ago? So your point was that Nimmo had a great season last year or he was a better offensive player than Soto and Acuna Jr? I agree that Nimmo was a top player in the NL but if your saying he was better than those two last season then I think your alone in that regard. My point obviously being the second best offensive player and having the second highest wRC+ of qualified players are two separate things.


Fair enough on not remembering. My point was that Nimmo had a great offensive season last year (one of the best in the league) then and it still is now. I would think that would be pretty obvious ad Ive repeatedly said exactly that. Nitpicking the "number 2" point is also fine with me if you want to bring Soto and Acuna into it. It doesnt change what Ive said or where I pulled the information from. The specific number 2 point came from players who were qualified.
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