Legitimate QB competition between Eli & Jones?!

In comment 14450739 GothamGiants said:

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Continuing to re-iterate that Jones is capable of starting in the NFL week 1 isn’t helping ... One thing I took note of was Jones being late on some throws/decisions ... this was an issue during senior bowl week and at times watching Duke. He’s smart enough and works hard enough for this eventually to not be a big issue - but i do think it’ll be the primary reason Eli starts the season

Jones was drafted in the first round and 6th overall. When you draft a quarterback that high, that is the expectation. What is shula supposed to say? No, he's a project. It's a catch 22 question and the media knew it when posing the question.

Say no and we drafted a quarterback who we don't believe is that good. Say yes and we have a quarterback controversy.

In comment 14450758 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14450741 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 14450738 Diver_Down said: Quote: Sounds absolutely crazy to suggest, but Tanney is in the 2nd year of the offense. Jones is the future, but if Eli gets hurt in September, Tanney likely offers the best chance to win a game. I would not be surprised if Jones doesn't even earn a jersey on Sunday in September. I think the coaching staff will make Jones earn his spot on the depth chart and not because of draft status. This would be shocking to me. It would be shocking to many. But keep in mind, it just isn't about how one spins the ball. Learning how to read defenses, command of the offensive playbook, film study, etc. goes into determining the decision. Jones has only been exposed to 2 weeks of an NFL program. His head is swimming in details. While he will look physically capable, there are a number of factors that Jones will need to demonstrate in order to ascend up the depth chart. The staff wants him to be #2 by emphasizing that he needs to be ready for week 1. A bit of advice for Jones is to ensure he avails himself of all opportunities to learn from a seasoned pro. He can't be mentored if he isn't available to ask the questions. That is on Daniel. (See Eli's Q/A yesterday).

Lauletta got playing time before Tanney last year. He was a 4th round pick. I can't see any way that Tanney gets playing time over a much better QB.

In comment 14450758 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14450741 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 14450738 Diver_Down said: Quote: Sounds absolutely crazy to suggest, but Tanney is in the 2nd year of the offense. Jones is the future, but if Eli gets hurt in September, Tanney likely offers the best chance to win a game. I would not be surprised if Jones doesn't even earn a jersey on Sunday in September. I think the coaching staff will make Jones earn his spot on the depth chart and not because of draft status. This would be shocking to me. It would be shocking to many. But keep in mind, it just isn't about how one spins the ball. Learning how to read defenses, command of the offensive playbook, film study, etc. goes into determining the decision. Jones has only been exposed to 2 weeks of an NFL program. His head is swimming in details. While he will look physically capable, there are a number of factors that Jones will need to demonstrate in order to ascend up the depth chart. The staff wants him to be #2 by emphasizing that he needs to be ready for week 1. A bit of advice for Jones is to ensure he avails himself of all opportunities to learn from a seasoned pro. He can't be mentored if he isn't available to ask the questions. That is on Daniel. (See Eli's Q/A yesterday).

Alex Tanney has completed 10 passes in 4 years with 3 sacks. If Jones doesn’t “beat” this guy, we have a major problem.

In comment 14450655 Eric from BBI said:

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And anyone who actually listened to Shurmur's presser yesterday - like this reporter should have - knows that.

Dang talk about fake news.. lol Shurmer seemed to clearly state this too -reporter jus making stuff up or hearing what he wants to hear.

did state multiple times that the goal is to get Jones ready for week 1, so he does own some of this.

I think he would rather deal with talk about a QB controversy than the talk about the #6 pick wasting away behind Eli

In comment 14450761 Big Rick in FL said:

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In comment 14450758 Diver_Down said: Quote: In comment 14450741 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 14450738 Diver_Down said: Quote: Sounds absolutely crazy to suggest, but Tanney is in the 2nd year of the offense. Jones is the future, but if Eli gets hurt in September, Tanney likely offers the best chance to win a game. I would not be surprised if Jones doesn't even earn a jersey on Sunday in September. I think the coaching staff will make Jones earn his spot on the depth chart and not because of draft status. This would be shocking to me. It would be shocking to many. But keep in mind, it just isn't about how one spins the ball. Learning how to read defenses, command of the offensive playbook, film study, etc. goes into determining the decision. Jones has only been exposed to 2 weeks of an NFL program. His head is swimming in details. While he will look physically capable, there are a number of factors that Jones will need to demonstrate in order to ascend up the depth chart. The staff wants him to be #2 by emphasizing that he needs to be ready for week 1. A bit of advice for Jones is to ensure he avails himself of all opportunities to learn from a seasoned pro. He can't be mentored if he isn't available to ask the questions. That is on Daniel. (See Eli's Q/A yesterday). Lauletta got playing time before Tanney last year. He was a 4th round pick. I can't see any way that Tanney gets playing time over a much better QB.

Even so, Kyle was buried on the depth chart until his ascension late in the season. Go back and look at Sept/Oct. Eli was #1 with Tanney #2. I certainly hope Jones is the #2 QB come week 1. But like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Tanney is #2 for Sept. In the immediate short term of the season, Tanney offers stability to fill-in in the event of an injury to Eli.

Also my memory is a bit different of how last year played out. Tanney happened to not be on the trip to Washington, Kyle was essentially 'rewarded' for a good week of preparation. No one knew Washington was going to get blown out like that and Eli come out. I don't think it was planned - sure some pre-meditation on scenarios but the way the team was playing last year there's no way you could have guaranteed playing time for Kyle.

Regardless of who was there, the blowout made it opportune for the backup QB to play and it was Kyle. If Tanney had been there, it would have been him.

That Eli is the starter until they're out of contention for a playoff spot. At the very earliest, in the shittiest of circumstances, that means Jones would get a chance around week 11 or 12.

...Eli starts Game One.

Not even a question or doubt.

None, nada, zero.

In comment 14450769 George said:

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That Eli is the starter until they're out of contention for a playoff spot. At the very earliest, in the shittiest of circumstances, that means Jones would get a chance around week 11 or 12.

The Giants have said this? I must have missed it. Can you link a quote?

In comment 14450769 George said:

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That Eli is the starter until they're out of contention for a playoff spot.

Perhaps you could tell us the person in authority with the Giants who said that and when.

BBI posters don't count.

There is no chance that he wants to give a rookie, any rookie, experience for the future if it makes it harder to win game one. It is reasonable to assume that Eli playing poorly will still make fewer mistakes than Jones. Since we will be focusing on a running attack, not a passing attack, any mistake could cost us the game. If he is healthy, Eli is the obvious choice.

Of course Eli is a bigger draw than Jones for attendance at the stadium and TV, so Mara and the networks will want Eli to play.

Hey, it’s only slightly less likely. Seriously, though - if Eli were also in his first year in the offense, a competition might be somewhat plausible. As it is? No way.

The only ways I can see Jones starting Week 1 would be if:
A) Manning is hurt; or
B) A serious contender loses its QB and makes Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse.

In comment 14450774 M.S. said:

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...Eli starts Game One. Not even a question or doubt. None, nada, zero.

This is an extremely dumb thing to say. There was none, nada, zero chance they were going to trade Odell this year or take Daniel Jones if Josh Allen was available. Look how that turned out.

In comment 14450778 Marty in Albany said:

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There is no chance that he wants to give a rookie, any rookie, experience for the future if it makes it harder to win game one. It is reasonable to assume that Eli playing poorly will still make fewer mistakes than Jones. Since we will be focusing on a running attack, not a passing attack, any mistake could cost us the game. If he is healthy, Eli is the obvious choice. Of course Eli is a bigger draw than Jones for attendance at the stadium and TV, so Mara and the networks will want Eli to play.

You honestly don’t think “Daniel Jones’ first start at home” wouldn’t generate more buzz ? I don’t remember the last time I walked into a home game and overhead anyone say “i can’t wait to see what Eli does today”

In comment 14450779 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Hey, it’s only slightly less likely. Seriously, though - if Eli were also in his first year in the offense, a competition might be somewhat plausible. As it is? No way. The only ways I can see Jones starting Week 1 would be if: A) Manning is hurt; or B) A serious contender loses its QB and makes Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse.

Tom Brady, 2 SB wins in last 3 years with 38-10 regular season record.
Stidham, 4th round pick.

Eli Manning, 0 SB wins in last 7 years with 1 playoff appearance, 19-29 record last 3 years.
Daniel Jones, 6th overall pick with skillset perfect for current HC/OC.

Excellent comparison. Very similar situations.

In comment 14450779 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Hey, it’s only slightly less likely. Seriously, though - if Eli were also in his first year in the offense, a competition might be somewhat plausible. As it is? No way. The only ways I can see Jones starting Week 1 would be if: A) Manning is hurt; or B) A serious contender loses its QB and makes Gettleman an offer he can’t refuse.

Eli has a no trade clause

2-4 yes if the team is not competitive.
2-4 no if they are in almost every game

More likely that there will be no change unless there are 5-6 losses with no chance of the playoffs

In comment 14450804 Ivan15 said:

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2-4 yes if the team is not competitive. 2-4 no if they are in almost every game More likely that there will be no change unless there are 5-6 losses with no chance of the playoffs

Daniel Jones is making his first start week 7 at home if they are 2-4, regardless of how close they came or how hard Eli tried

Why wouldn’t he, if a contender wanted him and offered to add some guaranteed money to his contract?

GothamGiants said:

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Tom Brady, 2 SB wins in last 3 years with 38-10 regular season record. Stidham, 4th round pick. Eli Manning, 0 SB wins in last 7 years with 1 playoff appearance, 19-29 record last 3 years. Daniel Jones, 6th overall pick with skillset perfect for current HC/OC. Excellent comparison. Very similar situations.

Hmmm... somebody skipped AP English the day they learned “facetious”.

Eli will be starting Week 1.

In comment 14450848 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Eli will be starting Week 1.

The real question is: How many games after ?

In comment 14450675 Brown Recluse said:

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He writes crap for clicks. Plus he’s an Eagles fan. Ignore him.

THIS. he is an eagles fan AND notorious click baiter. is there a worse combo?

it doesn't feel like the media's job is to report the news anymore - it's to generate business.

Mission accomplished - there are what 70 some comments on this now?

wants clicks. There is no competition. Eli will start and play until the Giants are eliminated.

In comment 14450815 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Why wouldn’t he, if a contender wanted him and offered to add some guaranteed money to his contract?

seems like a far fetched scenario, but he may not want to uproot his family to go to a team and fan base that has no loyalty to him

a legend... especially one that thinks they can still play AND especially when the team drafts someone that they think will take over AND one that is still under contract.

History shows that there really isn't a good play here - it ended badly for everyone in recent memory. From Favre to Montana to Simms.

THe only way it ends well is:
A.) injuries (Peyton - Aikman - Warner)
B.) contract expires (Marino)
C.) guy is ready to call it a career (Elway)

That's it - Eli doesn't seem to fall into any of those three pots right now - so this season will probably get messy.

would have to play poorly through.camp and the preseason, especially game three, while Jones would have to pick up he offense very qucikly and light it up. Eli hasn't played well in the preseason for years now, but that hasn't led to anything. So, it's very unlikely Jones is week one starter.

In comment 14450886 Nine-Tails said:

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would have to play poorly through.camp and the preseason, especially game three, while Jones would have to pick up he offense very qucikly and light it up. Eli hasn't played well in the preseason for years now, but that hasn't led to anything. So, it's very unlikely Jones is week one starter.

Eli hasn’t had to contend with a top 10 pick ever ... certainly not 1 with a lot more athleticism and an OC fast tracking his development to a point he’s said, several times, that Jones would be ready to start week 1 (if needed)

Wait until Eli throws an INT in preseason while Jones comes in the 2nd half and scrambles for a few nice runs ... Eli’s days are numbered.

* Fully expect Eli starting week 1.

In comment 14450854 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:

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In comment 14450675 Brown Recluse said: Quote: He writes crap for clicks. Plus he’s an Eagles fan. Ignore him. THIS. he is an eagles fan AND notorious click baiter. is there a worse combo?

Yes, if you add "writes for the Daily News" it actually does get materially worse because then you're talking about Pat Leonard.

In comment 14450764 ron mexico said:

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did state multiple times that the goal is to get Jones ready for week 1, so he does own some of this. I think he would rather deal with talk about a QB controversy than the talk about the #6 pick wasting away behind Eli

That's because the JOB of ANY back-up quarterback is to be ready to play if the starter gets hurt. It was true for any back-up QB the Giants have ever had.

In comment 14450756 GothamGiants said:

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In comment 14450748 BillT said: Quote: A rookie who doesn’t even know the playbook yet with no NFL experience is going to beat out Eli. If this staff made that decision from what they saw in preseason you’d have to consider firing them. There is going to be a time where Jones’ athletic ability gives the Giants a better chance of winning than Eli’s experience It is a matter of when, not if, this happens. I don’t expect it to be week 1, as I mentioned the processing speed/decision making will take time. I hope I’m wrong, but it would not shock me if Jones is starting as soon as week 3. Odell-less and playing 2 very good defenses off the bat, Eli better come out firing.

If I were a betting man I'd give you some very steep odds Eli starts game 3 and probably quite a few after that. Heck, I might give you odds that Eli starts all 16.

good enough the past 3 years to be guaranteed any the starting job.

For better or worse, Giants drafted a QB at #6. Most QBs drafted that high end up starting at some point in their first year. The media is right to ask the question, and it should be one of the biggest stories this year.

In comment 14450950 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14450764 ron mexico said: Quote: did state multiple times that the goal is to get Jones ready for week 1, so he does own some of this. I think he would rather deal with talk about a QB controversy than the talk about the #6 pick wasting away behind Eli That's because the JOB of ANY back-up quarterback is to be ready to play if the starter gets hurt. It was true for any back-up QB the Giants have ever had.

well

is that true?

Does the guy running the scout team go through the full install every week?

It truly depends what level of QB you believe Manning is both athletically and mentally. If you believe Manning is more the gun-shy, slow-footed, 1-7 QB or the opportunistic, savvy, and compotent 4-4 guy.

It also depends on what team, specifically offensive line, the Giants field.

The Giants had remarkable health the back half of the season on the OL. All 5 started at least 8 games (4/5 started 9 together). They edged from disaster to competent.

Zeitler is a talent upgrade over Brown, but he'll also be new. Remmers is coming off surgery and new. Halopio is coming off surgery and is effectively new. Solder is coming off a procedure.

None of these are tragedies, but will impact the quality of play early on. I expect the line to round into shape, but I don't expect the continuity or comfort seen at the end of last year.

So with a work-in-progress line, don't be shocked if the former Manning shows a lot, and Jones outshines him.

In comment 14450656 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14450653 nzyme said: Quote: He's #2 right now. I know they said Tanney was #2 but the groupings for the practice were Eli/Jones and Tanney/Lauletta. Yes, but Tanney was the 2nd QB yesterday. Shurmur did say Jones would get more snaps in the future.

Jones was the one after Manning on the video highlights that I saw.

In comment 14450821 Big Blue Blogger said:

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GothamGiants said: Quote: Tom Brady, 2 SB wins in last 3 years with 38-10 regular season record. Stidham, 4th round pick. Eli Manning, 0 SB wins in last 7 years with 1 playoff appearance, 19-29 record last 3 years. Daniel Jones, 6th overall pick with skillset perfect for current HC/OC. Excellent comparison. Very similar situations. Hmmm... somebody skipped AP English the day they learned “facetious”.

It is tough to see the word facetious when most posts by this guy regarding Eli are overly negative.

Hell, he's even postulating that week 3 is a distinct possibility to see Jones play.

In comment 14451007 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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It is tough to see the word facetious when most posts by this guy regarding Eli are overly negative. Hell, he's even postulating that week 3 is a distinct possibility to see Jones play.

Obvious dupe

by losing because of his play or a team collapse. Late in the season or next year.

In comment 14451007 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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In comment 14450821 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: GothamGiants said: Quote: Tom Brady, 2 SB wins in last 3 years with 38-10 regular season record. Stidham, 4th round pick. Eli Manning, 0 SB wins in last 7 years with 1 playoff appearance, 19-29 record last 3 years. Daniel Jones, 6th overall pick with skillset perfect for current HC/OC. Excellent comparison. Very similar situations. Hmmm... somebody skipped AP English the day they learned “facetious”. It is tough to see the word facetious when most posts by this guy regarding Eli are overly negative. Hell, he's even postulating that week 3 is a distinct possibility to see Jones play.

1. I’ve said countless times I love Eli and wouldn’t have taken a QB at 6, as I think they should’ve gone BPA and given him a chance to win.

2. It is possible to love Eli and acknowledge reality, which is that this team has sucked with him and he is no longer capable of carrying this team and that a QB taken top 10 is the future, and we should probably know if he’s the answer long term as soon as possible - rather than give Eli his “farewell tour” for past accomplishments

3. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Eli plays terribly against 2 very good defenses to start the year. It is not out of the realm of possibility that a hard working “cerebral” QB prospect will be familiar with the playbook by then.

It is possible to respect Eli for his career while acknowledging that the top 10 pick young QB is the future - or we at least need to find out if he is the future ASAP. There’s legit reason to think Jones will be mentally ready to go by week 3; considering the OC is preparing him to be ready for week 1 - has publicly proclaimed this several times - and from what we know about Jones’ work ethic/Cutcliffe coaching.

Acknowledging reality doesn’t make me “anti-Eli” with some BS agenda. It’s reality, and we have a younger more athletic QB waiting in the wings ... Clearly I have an agenda though, disregard the fact I’ve said several times I would’ve past on QB in the first round and went BPA to win around Eli.

Have a great day gents. Go Giants!

an agenda - starting with coming back as a dupe.

but putting that aside - it isn't "objective" to state that Eli could be replaced Week 3.

As long as he's on the roster to start the season, Eli will play until we are out of the playoff race or if he is the major reason the team struggles. They won't do it in Week 3. I don't even think we'll be 0-2. I mean making the Bills D out to be pretty damn good already reeks of an agenda - using bad info to try and make a point.

In comment 14450725 Giant John said:

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At some point Eli will be replaced. No question. Based on what has been discussed by Giants and the competitive nature of Eli the fact is it’s no time soon. This is the writers doing what they do. Finding anything to write about. Don’t be so quick to jump when they throw some blood in the water.

Of course. However, it is somewhat refreshing that this team finally could have a QB competition (albeit premature in May)...

In comment 14450950 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 14450764 ron mexico said: Quote: did state multiple times that the goal is to get Jones ready for week 1, so he does own some of this. I think he would rather deal with talk about a QB controversy than the talk about the #6 pick wasting away behind Eli That's because the JOB of ANY back-up quarterback is to be ready to play if the starter gets hurt. It was true for any back-up QB the Giants have ever had.

Shurmer actually repeated the line in responding to a subsequent question and also added something like "like everyone else in the room". It is abundantly clear that PS meant exactly what you said here. Others are just misconstruing or trying to mislead.

which one will start in week one. Performance during OTAs or even during full team practices during the summer will not reveal this.

In comment 14451151 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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an agenda - starting with coming back as a dupe. but putting that aside - it isn't "objective" to state that Eli could be replaced Week 3. As long as he's on the roster to start the season, Eli will play until we are out of the playoff race or if he is the major reason the team struggles. They won't do it in Week 3. I don't even think we'll be 0-2. I mean making the Bills D out to be pretty damn good already reeks of an agenda - using bad info to try and make a point.

1. Never posted on here before, but OK.
2. Here's some facts on the Bills and their defense:
- #2 Defense, as in 2nd best, in the NFL in terms of yardage allowed.
- #2 in the NFL in forced fumbles, top 10 in passes defensed
- Top 10 in YPC/allowed
- 2nd highest rated pass defense and 2nd best overall defense

Objective, factual data - as I always use to support my opinions. Continue to assume I'm a previous poster or that the Bills defense isn't good. We'll see how many people continue to blindly support Eli if he sucks in the home opener against a team everyone is underestimating (despite the fact they have more wins than the Giants over the last 3 years - and 1 of the better defenses in the league).

Let's continue to disregard the fact Shurmur has flat out said it's Eli's job to keep Jones off the field and the OC has his development on a "fast track" while stating he'll be ready to go week 1 - if necessary.

Nope, definitely no way Eli starts off poorly against 2 very good defenses with no Odell and never taking a regular season snap with Golden Tate. No way.

But sure, he'll be ready to roll in his third NFL game.

I don't know why that is so hard to understand.

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Objective, factual data - as I always use to support my opinions

As in April 2019 signup date. Currently on 15 active threads or more. Knows people's past posts previous to April 2019.

Maybe you just like certain facts?

Because lots of long time lurkers suddenly start posting 50 times a day, every day.