Figured I'd come at it from a different angle. Granted, many of us have a bias, and believe he will be enshrined in the Hall of Fame.
But give me your best argument that shows specific reasons why Eli Manning would NOT ever receive induction at Canton.
That is it.
The guy is getting in. On his name alone. On his stats, on his rings, on his NFL Man of the Year.
All of it. He's getting in.
To me, Eli is a HOFer no doubt. But it's going to be close. A lot of people who aren't on this forum/Giant fans don't consider him to be one.
but even with that its a sh$t argument. statistically he is HOF, and he has 2 of the best SB runs of all time. so there isnt a great argument
Obviously assuming that he retires with a record less than .500. He's 116-114 now.
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having an overall losing record in his starts is pretty tough to ignore.
Obviously assuming that he retires with a record less than .500. He's 116-114 now.
116-114 regular season, 8-4 post-season
2011 season he was.
The first question I have always asked (regardless of sport) is simple: What has he (or she) accomplished that was SO VERY SPECIAL?
I do not need to answer that.
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2011 season he was.
That was probably his best year, but I think Rodgers, Brees and Brady had better seasons that year.
no one with as many losses as him as in the HOF.
His career winning percentage is now lower than QB's like Trent Dilfer, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, etc.
two great runs. Giants ring of honor. Just short of HOF.
Tiki Barber has a better case without a ring.
Favre has more losses and Brees likely will
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no one with as many losses as him as in the HOF.
Favre has more losses and Brees likely will
Favre was 186 - 112
Eli is 116 - 114
Brees is 155 - 108
Am I misreading something?
I love Eli, but this is the argument I would make if I was against him.
Again, I think you can't overlook the rings or understate the championships. So he likely gets in on that, but detractors will have their say.
no one with as many losses as him as in the HOF.
His career winning percentage is now lower than QB's like Trent Dilfer, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, etc.
two great runs. Giants ring of honor. Just short of HOF.
Tiki Barber has a better case without a ring.
OK. Now make your argument as to why Namath is in the HOF but Eli won't be.
Championship runs do matter. Especially when you have 2 of them and you do it against the greatest sports dynasty of all time (both times). Not to mention in 2011 he wasn't simply "along for the ride" like the QBs you mentioned (some of which didn't win any championships), Eli carried that team basically by himself along with Cruz and JPP assisting.
You can't just point to his W-L record and say "there's a blemish he's not getting in". All sorts of players in the HOF have blemishes. Eli is top 10 in just about every all-time passing category AND has the hardware (and SB MVPs) required to get in. Add on top of that the 200+ start streak and the Walter Payton Man of the Year award. He's getting in. Maybe not first ballot, but he's getting in.
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no one with as many losses as him as in the HOF.
Favre has more losses and Brees likely will
Not only did Joe Namath have more losses than wins, but he had more interceptions than touchdowns.
That really is an incredibly amazing feat over a 15+ year career, no matter how you slice it.
I love Eli, but this is the argument I would make if I was against him.
He was in 2011.
Eli is 116 - 114
Brees is 155 - 108
Am I misreading something?
Favre is 199-123
Brees is 163-115
Eli is 124-118
Never understood this argument. As if those aren't enough.
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In comment 14451016 Larry from WV said:
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2011 season he was.
That was probably his best year, but I think Rodgers, Brees and Brady had better seasons that year.
Statistically they did. But no one came anywhere close to being as good as Eli in the 4th quarter and in the clutch that year. He was the difference in almost literally every single game the Giants won in the regular season and then was an ace in all 4 playoff games and particularly in the 4th quarter when it mattered most. Not only in the regular season but into the playoffs. Go back to the first Dallas game, Chris Collinsworth makes this exact point and the Giants weren't even in the playoffs yet at that point. He won the damn SB MVP I would say that should be counted toward considering who had the better season that year.
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Favre was 186 - 112
Eli is 116 - 114
Brees is 155 - 108
Am I misreading something?
Favre is 199-123
Brees is 163-115
Eli is 124-118
You are including post-season. I don't think most do in W/L, but whatever - those guys made the post-season more times (12 for Favre, 8 for Brees, 6 for Eli) it's probably why it's not used in normal W/L communications, but basically if Eli loses 8 games this year (likely if he lasts that long) he'll clinch a tie at worst, 9 losses (again, likely if he lasts that long) he'll clinch the lead (forever vs Favre and likely Brees too).
It's unfortunate, because I don't think he's earned it. But we all know the HOF has become more political, than earned induction.
Yes, he beat the Patriots twice in SB & that will mostly be what gets him in.
But Eli was never feared. Your defense wasn't shaking in their boots because Eli stepped on the field. And that should be a huge barometer in who makes it & who doesn't at any position.
Add in a career losing record, along with his INT's in this modern era and it really is not that tough a choice, imo.
Imo, If Eli Manning makes the HOF, than you also have to induct Jim Plunkett, too.
Also a 2x winning SB winner. And that isn't gonna happen either with his career passing completion %.
But let's be honest here, the reason the Giants won those SB's was because of great defense helped with HOFer Michael Strahan who does belong. And some classic lucky catches, to name a few.
But we all know that Eli will make the HOF because it's now mostly a sham.
But the ONLY reason Eli makes the HOF, will be because his last name is Manning & nothing more.
If anything, the longer he plays? The more he's showing he doesn't belong. Had he retired 5 years ago? I'd be championing him to belong in the Hall.
But he's not just losing it, he's way past losing it & just sucks now.
Everytime he steps on the field, he gives the HOF committee reason to question if he he belongs in the HOF.
Even with carrying the Manning name on his back.
It will be even worse, when Eli gets yanked from a game because of poor play.
Only to bring in a guy everyone laughed at, when they selected him @#6 in Daniel Jones from Duke.
A guy who's College completion % rivals that of Ironically...Jim Plunkett.
So..
Does Eli Manning belong in the HOF?
No
Will he get in?
Yes
First Ballot?
Uh....no
I really believe Eli had a solid case for 2011 League MVP.
But Rodgers and his gaudy numbers took it.
But when you look at the two performances, the Packers were routinely blowing teams out and faced little adversity (until the playoffs).
Where as Manning led and NFL record tying 7 regular season 4th quarter comebacks and broke the longstanding 4th quarter TD record.
Manning and the Giants then obliterated Rodgers and the 15-1 Packers in Green Bay in the playoffs.
- Brady 2x and the undefeated Patriots.
- Favre
- Romo
- Ryan
- Garcia
His career is primarily defined by two games. From a legacy perspective he would have been better off retiring after the 2011 title...everything since has been disastrous. How much of that is his fault is up for debate, but there is no denying the results.
I love the guy, but facts are stubborn things.
Find me another QB who is winning either NFC title game Eli won on the road.
Just sayin'
Put him in.
Many NY Giant fans of the team think he was lucky and won those 2 SB on the strength of their defense.
~.500 Regular season record.
No MVPs
A top 5 QB only a couple of years.
Lots of ints
Many current and former players don't think highly of him, he is always high on the overrated lists when players are polled.
In a nutshell, the media, players are fans are divided on his greatness. Nowhere near a consensus and very polarizing. Some say he is great, some say he sucks. That is a tough road in friends.
In case it gets lost. The OP requests the negative case. I think ELi Manning should get in. I am very unsure if he will.
Eli playoff record
8-4, 2 SB wins
Both made it to the post season 6 times
i cant really see how this doesnt come into consideration at the end of it all.
Is more postseason success and 1 Super Bowl run better than that?
I've always felt that the 2 SB MVP's, and all of the passing yds & TD's would get him in, I'm just not so sure any more.
Is more postseason success and 1 Super Bowl run better than that?
It means for the people who believe that as the reason he won't be enshrined in Canton that two SB runs and otherwise mostly mediocrity or worse <> HOF
no clue what's confusing about it.
You mean like 2014 with 4400+ yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs and a rating of 92 or 2015 with 4400+ yards, 35 TDs, 14 INTs and a 93 rating. Quite the disaster. Maybe it was 2016 when he lead them to the playoffs.
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postseason success beyond 2 Super Bowl runs?
Is more postseason success and 1 Super Bowl run better than that?
It means for the people who believe that as the reason he won't be enshrined in Canton that two SB runs and otherwise mostly mediocrity or worse <> HOF
no clue what's confusing about it.
No one said it was confusing - - just a bizarre take.
I also think the Manning name hurts, not helps Eli. It's not easy being younger brother to Peyton. Expectations for Eli have always been unfair to him as have the comparisons to his brother.
If the voters don't think he's elite, and many likely do not, it will be easy for them to justify keeping him out.
I think he deserves in btw. Just pointing out why he may not get in.
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You mean like 2014 with 4400+ yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs and a rating of 92 or 2015 with 4400+ yards, 35 TDs, 14 INTs and a 93 rating. Quite the disaster. Maybe it was 2016 when he lead them to the playoffs.
Giants went 12-20 in those seasons.
Stats in a shit team season does nothing for me.
nearly mistake free in two SB runs
incredibly durable
statistically speaking, a good compiler
Reasons against:
was never a top 5 QB
ordinary physical skills
no outrageous years statistically
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In comment 14451159 Chris684 said:
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postseason success beyond 2 Super Bowl runs?
Is more postseason success and 1 Super Bowl run better than that?
It means for the people who believe that as the reason he won't be enshrined in Canton that two SB runs and otherwise mostly mediocrity or worse <> HOF
no clue what's confusing about it.
No one said it was confusing - - just a bizarre take.
Maybe. but those people are saying "it's not enough" what Eli has done to make the HOF.
Beez asked what is the reason he won't he be enshrined. It's up the person whose opinion it is.
and while I'd vote for him, I hate to break it to most of you, but outside of Giants nation, Eli is viewed very polarizing. Mostly negative. not as a HOFer. IMO at least from what I hear and read.
Basically, he went over all of this, and at the end concluded that those two playoff runs were what it is ultimately all about and because of that, he will be voting for Eli to be enshrined his first year of eligibility and every year after until he gets in.
Gary Meyers is far from a Giants or Manning supporter.
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In comment 14451094 Go Terps said:
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You mean like 2014 with 4400+ yards, 30 TDs, 14 INTs and a rating of 92 or 2015 with 4400+ yards, 35 TDs, 14 INTs and a 93 rating. Quite the disaster. Maybe it was 2016 when he lead them to the playoffs.
Giants went 12-20 in those seasons.
Stats in a shit team season does nothing for me.
So when he was good but the team was bad that's his fault.