The 2011 offensive line was already deteriorating. And we all know the atrocious state of the line from 2012-2018. And the failed attempts to fix it. That's SEVEN long years.
If you're a young Giants fan, even someone in their early 20s, you've never seen a good offensive line on this team.
Relatedly, same thing with the disappointing overall record:
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
Only one playoff game during that time period.
Giants' retooled offensive line looks like their best in years - ( New Window )
Beatty earned a 2nd contract here but got hurt. Schwartz was a free agency bust, Richburg and Pugh were disappointments. Flowers sucked. Hart sucked. There were a bunch of other guys whose names I've forgotten because they were just so mediocre or bad.
Basically every OL move this team made from 2012 to 2018 was terrible and even last year was a mixed bag although Gettleman started to trend in the right direction with Solder (who I think will be just fine) and of course Hernandez.
Speaking of Hernandez, we finally have a couple of bullies at the guard position who are going to be stealing people's lunchboxes all over the place. I'm still not sure NYG fans realize how terrific an o-lineman Zeitler is.
Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan etc. would have had the Giants offense leading the league with those lines.
[strawman argument]
Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan etc. would have had the Giants offense leading the league with those lines.
Pugh and Richburg were bullied...not the bully
And that's WITH jettisoning two former 1st round picks on the line.
Beatty earned a 2nd contract here but got hurt. Schwartz was a free agency bust, Richburg and Pugh were disappointments. Flowers sucked. Hart sucked. There were a bunch of other guys whose names I've forgotten because they were just so mediocre or bad.
Basically every OL move this team made from 2012 to 2018 was terrible and even last year was a mixed bag although Gettleman started to trend in the right direction with Solder (who I think will be just fine) and of course Hernandez.
Speaking of Hernandez, we finally have a couple of bullies at the guard position who are going to be stealing people's lunchboxes all over the place. I'm still not sure NYG fans realize how terrific an o-lineman Zeitler is.
As I get older, the years seem to fly by faster. So much of the last seven years are a blur (some of it probably deliberate because I don't want to remember crappy football). But imagine if you were 15-year old Giants fan in 2012! You're 22 now and you witnessed nothing but the fruitless attempts you identify above. For years, you've witnessed a team that has more trouble on 3rd-and-1 than 3rd-and-7.
And that's WITH jettisoning two former 1st round picks on the line.
Time will tell, lets watch them play first...
You don't play based on what you have on paper.
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with the offensive line in just two offseasons.
And that's WITH jettisoning two former 1st round picks on the line.
.
Time will tell, lets watch them play first...
You don't play based on what you have on paper.
What we saw in the last 8 games last year along was an improvement. Hoping the trend continues with the new additions.
Didn't the '08 OL appear on the cover of SI or ESPN the Magazine? That OL was a machine.
Is EE's quote "They literally walk around together". That is Zeitlers leadership. He demands that, its going to have massive wins for us. They will all be on the same page because he and Solder won't allow anything else.
I'm stoked for our OL. We still need a long term answer (maybe the rookies) @ RT and still not sold on Hali @ C, but NYG loved him before he got hurt. So lets see. Either way, we have zero excuse not to compete on offense this year. And this sets up Jones well.
Giants' retooled offensive line looks like their best in years - ( New Window )
I was listening to Inside Football - and the guest, Chris Bisagnio said something like "he's excited" and "he can't wait to see Pio, Hernandez and Zeitler just blow people up off the line" (paraphrasing).
This is me outside exercising in the morning. I must have sounded like an idiot to anyone in earshot because I cheered. :-)
Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan etc. would have had the Giants offense leading the league with those lines.
Why is it so difficult for some to understand the concept of shared responsibility?
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
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Eric. Everybody knows it is because Eli could not elevate those lines!
Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan etc. would have had the Giants offense leading the league with those lines.
Why is it so difficult for some to understand the concept of shared responsibility?
Exactly. The offensive line has been terrible - no doubt about it. But Eli is no longer the 2011 NFC Championship Game vs. SF version of himself. He is a traffic cone back there. He crumbles at the perception of pressure.
This is the type of combination that leads to comical pass protection.
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
They were destroying defenses in 2008, play action was a killer weapon.
2011 was shit. Eli made that line decent. Worst rushing attack in the nfl. Cardinals did the same thing in 08(last in rushing)
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
2011 was shit. Eli made that line decent. Worst rushing attack in the nfl. Cardinals did the same thing in 08(last in rushing)
They were dead last during the regular season, but they ran the ball better during the playoffs. Just enough overall performance to give Eli an opening.
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
Gilbride in an article said by 2011 the offensive line was running on fumes and was never addressed afterwards leading to all the problems. Giants ranked last in rushing that year I believe.
In between 07 and 2011 Ray Lewis commented after a game against Giants that he didn't think anyone could run on them the way Giants did. Forgot what year but nobody ran on Ravens and Giants did.
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In comment 14451901 JonC said:
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
Gilbride in an article said by 2011 the offensive line was running on fumes and was never addressed afterwards leading to all the problems. Giants ranked last in rushing that year I believe.
In between 07 and 2011 Ray Lewis commented after a game against Giants that he didn't think anyone could run on them the way Giants did. Forgot what year but nobody ran on Ravens and Giants did.
I was more confident in that 2008 squad than any other team "of mine"...Ever.
I was convinced they had a great shot to repeat. Until Plax shoots himself and there goes the play-action.
That line was a well oiled machine. Guys who know each other, were healthy, in their prime and played greater as a sum than their individual parts.
That was one of the best lines we ever had. Our OL right now doesnt have that kind of experience playing with each other and familarity so I dont expect that high of a level but I could see something in between what we saw in the 2nd half last year and that 2008 line.
There are some pretty good players on the OL now and no 'black holes'. I am kind of bullish on Pio too. Not that he'll light it up but that he'll be steady. He isnt some young guy who doesnt know the ropes. I think we may have a bit of a diamond in the rough there with how unanimously they have been praising him. Now Shurmur was a former OC and DG has a great eye for OL. If they see something there which they have consistently said they do I believe them.
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In comment 14451911 Capt. Don said:
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In comment 14451901 JonC said:
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
Gilbride in an article said by 2011 the offensive line was running on fumes and was never addressed afterwards leading to all the problems. Giants ranked last in rushing that year I believe.
In between 07 and 2011 Ray Lewis commented after a game against Giants that he didn't think anyone could run on them the way Giants did. Forgot what year but nobody ran on Ravens and Giants did.
I was more confident in that 2008 squad than any other team "of mine"...Ever.
I was convinced they had a great shot to repeat. Until Plax shoots himself and there goes the play-action.
Things got bad and things got worse
I guess you know the tune
Plus meeting a buzz aw Andy Reid Eagles team to game plan for a one dimensional passing attack.
Yeah that OL sucked. We didn't even break 20 pts in a game that season.
This is why it drives me absolutely Batshit that people are so down on Eli when really his OL has sucked sinced 2011.
2011 - 31st
2012 - 11th
2013 - 28th
2014 - 20th
2015 - 20th
2016 - 20th
2017 - 26th
2018 - 22nd
Think the OL will definitely be improved this year but the depth scares me.
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In comment 14451901 JonC said:
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
They were destroying defenses in 2008, play action was a killer weapon.
That was my favorite non Superbowl year. When you run on the Ray Lewis Ravens like that, you know the OL is good. That was a dominant team pre Plax shooting himself.
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In comment 14451901 JonC said:
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2010 was our last good OL, 2008 our last dominant OL.
I still remember an Eagles fan who is a good friend of mine telling me in 2008 (pre-plaxico shooting himself) that the NYG offensive line should be the MVP of the league.
They were destroying defenses in 2008, play action was a killer weapon.
Even though they collapsed at the end. That was still one of the most potent Giants teams I can remember. That game against the Steelers was a classic and they totally destroyed the vaunted Ravens defense that year with Jacobs, Ward, and Bradshaw. The Panthers game that year was another memorable one.
Ohhhh what could have been!
Once we had Diehl at LT, McKenzie at RT, and Beatty as young OT depth, with Seubert, O'Hara, and Snee starting in the middle with Booth backing them up. Late in that configuration you could argue when Diehl and O'Hara both went down the the OL from left to right Beatty, Booth, Seubert (at OC) Snee and Mackenzie performed better than the starting 5...
Any injury to the starting 5 this year is likely to be a significant downgrade unless Wheeler has significantly upgraded his game, and losing either KZ or WH is bound to cause significant downgrade too.
Twice yearly, playing for the Eagles?
Memories, memories...
Link - ( New Window )
We could use a little bit of luck... Almost every team in the league has managed to find at least one quality starter late in the draft or via UDFA...
We have had none to speak of in the last 12 years.
Eighteen years of steamy garbage, from the age of 10 to 28.
Cry me a river about youngsters who haven't experienced a World Championship for 7 years...
Boo forkin' hoo.
September 8, 2017
September 10, 2017
Memories, memories... Link - ( New Window )
That game to me is iconic, because to my view it made the FO think our OL was way, way batter than it was. If you watch the game carefully, there were a ton of great cutback runs by Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward that made the OL look better than they were. Many times, the POA was stacked up by the Ravens, but holes just cracked open elsewhere and our trio of RBs was ON IT that day.
Following that year, Reese ignored the OL with any high (1st 3 rounds) draft picks for YEARS, failing to groom the successors to that OL.
Grew up in East Northport, Long Island, and had the same experience in the 70's with Steeler, Cowboy and Raider fans. Got into a fight on the school bus with a pinhead in a Raiders jacket one time.
By November, it had all gone to sh!t and we were watching Flowers-Schwartz-Reynolds-Jerry-Newhouse. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, everyone has a great plan until their offensive line gets punched in the mouth.
He was instrumental in his job as lead scout building the team for siren But his tenure as GM was an F after a few years. Period. When the best OL ever drafted or signed as a FA in 11 years was Justin Pugh it’s a disaster.
Add to that he was arrogant and inflexible makes it worse.
Who knows how DG’s tenure will end but it there was a more inept pair than Ross and Reese in that area I’d love to hear the case.
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Watch Brandon Jacobs take Ed Reed for a ride. See Earth, Wind, & Fire in action. Watch Eli have all day to throw.
Memories, memories... Link - ( New Window )
That game to me is iconic, because to my view it made the FO think our OL was way, way batter than it was. If you watch the game carefully, there were a ton of great cutback runs by Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward that made the OL look better than they were. Many times, the POA was stacked up by the Ravens, but holes just cracked open elsewhere and our trio of RBs was ON IT that day.
Following that year, Reese ignored the OL with any high (1st 3 rounds) draft picks for YEARS, failing to groom the successors to that OL.
Yes he did. But why did Reese ignore? Because he thought he knew better and that the game was moving away from Power football. He also couldn't evaluate OL talent which compounded his propensity to take OL only with later round picks.
Even as far back as the 49'ers with their West Coast offense they always had solid offensive lines.
Really the height of arrogance to think he knew better way after watching what worked for successful SB teams.
By November, it had all gone to sh!t and we were watching Flowers-Schwartz-Reynolds-Jerry-Newhouse. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, everyone has a great plan until their offensive line gets punched in the mouth.
Definitely great points blogger. What could have been if Beatty and Schwartz stay healthy. That said I am most definitely in line with the opinion that Reese/Ross could not effectively evaluate offensive lineman (or really any talent beyond the second round... sadly).
By November, it had all gone to sh!t and we were watching Flowers-Schwartz-Reynolds-Jerry-Newhouse. To paraphrase Mike Tyson, everyone has a great plan until their offensive line gets punched in the mouth.
Beatty was NEVER anything more than a Mediocre pass blocker and always a shit run defender at his best. There’s a reason. The OL and went from shit to functional the last SB run when he went down and DD moved to LT. Reese like w Flowers refused to upgrade or w en Challenge a pic of his whom was assured of his spot.
Th ONLY GM in the NFL who thought Beatty was a Keeper was Reese
When they started clicking, when Rob Carpenter was signed and all of a sudden 5+ first down yards became common, it was like the sun coming out after days of rain, man.
Of course even the 80's fans never knew what a 'complete' OL felt like, Simms and Hoss ran for their lives for most of the decade - really, the one and ONLY GREAT Giant OL unit in the modern era:
Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, SNEE, Mackenzie
I hope I live to see another line like that. That offense could do ANYTHING.
When they started clicking, when Rob Carpenter was signed and all of a sudden 5+ first down yards became common, it was like the sun coming out after days of rain, man.
Of course even the 80's fans never knew what a 'complete' OL felt like, Simms and Hoss ran for their lives for most of the decade - really, the one and ONLY GREAT Giant OL unit in the modern era:
Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, SNEE, Mackenzie
I hope I live to see another line like that. That offense could do ANYTHING.
despite that wonderful line ... Eli put up 3300/23/20 ... Eli actually had a much better season statistically in 2018. Pretty crazy.
When they started clicking, when Rob Carpenter was signed and all of a sudden 5+ first down yards became common, it was like the sun coming out after days of rain, man.
Of course even the 80's fans never knew what a 'complete' OL felt like, Simms and Hoss ran for their lives for most of the decade - really, the one and ONLY GREAT Giant OL unit in the modern era:
Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, SNEE, Mackenzie
I hope I live to see another line like that. That offense could do ANYTHING.
Are you dissing "The Suburbanites?"
And did you not see Super Bowl 25?
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Eric. Everybody knows it is because Eli could not elevate those lines!
Brady, Brees, Rivers, Ryan etc. would have had the Giants offense leading the league with those lines.
Why is it so difficult for some to understand the concept of shared responsibility?
That’s just it, save for 2017 Eli hasn’t been THAT bad at all during that stretch of shit OL play. I’d even say he wasn’t THAT bad in 2017. He just wasn’t productive. I’ve seen terrible qb play.. I’ve seen pretty bad qb play. How can anyone say Eli was bad in 2014-2016??? How????? He threw 90 tds over a 3 year span. He led the giants offense to above average pt totals in 2014-2015 and helped them win 11 games in 2016. How is Eli “not sharing responsibilities?”
10,000 days since last Lions' playoff win... - ( New Window )