A few reasons that stick out to me why:
1. Saquon Barkley. You get this guy a little bit of a hole and he's gone. He combines power , speed, vision and cutting ability like few that have ever played the game. We saw what he did behind a mess of an OL for much of the year.
2. The OL is significantly improved . Barring catastrophic injuries, Not one guy in theory who would be considered potentially atrocious for his position. Last year Omameh Wheeler and Flowers all played horribly. Combine that with injuries to our starting OC a rookie LG in Willie and Solder starting slowly, it was a recipe for disaster.
3. 2 Outside recievers who are plus plus run blockers in Shep and Tate. It was important to replace OBJ with a quality WR who is also a plus run blocker. Tate has a little more build to him than OBJ too so he may be a little more stout in this department as well. We saw countless amazing blocks on most of SBs big runs last year by Shephard.
4. Second year in the system. This is a very underrated factor here. With the new CBA the practice times and installs have been compromised. It is very hard to get a team to gel in a system and run it on all cylinders in year 1. Combine this with more tweaking of the offensive personnel than an overhaul and many of the players have a full year of familiarity with Shurmurs offense already under their belt.
5. Shurmur is very strong in run concepts. We saw it in Minnesota especially with Dalvin Cook's rookie season. Had Dalvin stayed healthy the whole year his numbers would have been eye popping. A lot of the blocking concepts and playcalls when he has good OL (or an OL playing cohesively unlike ours last year) seem to create favorable mismatches and open some pretty good holes for the RBs. Imagine this with Saquon now that the OL looks to be improved across the board?
6. Eli Manning's smarts and audibles at the line . Eli is very good at reading a D and adjusting to a run if the defense is susceptible to it. In year 2 of Shurmurs system he will be even better at it.
Yes and no. It will but barring crazy injuries 3 of our OL are in their 2nd year in the system now.
Solder and Hernendez and Pio (though it was an abbreviated season for him he played alot in preseason and in training camp).
The other 2 guys are a very highly level vet in Zietler and another vet in Remmers that is familiar with Shurmurs system .
So while there may be an acclimation period it should not be as dramatic as what we saw last year.
It will take time to gel but not as long as you expect. Veterans like Zeitler and Remmers will gel faster than rookies. It will help a great deal that Remmers is familiar with Shurmur and Shula's scheme. Shula was Remmers OC for all three years in Carolina and for a year when Shurmur was the OC in Minnesota.
Solder and Hernandez have already spent a year together and has also worked with Halapio last offseason, preseason, and for the first two games last season. The line should be one sound cohesive unit before the season starts.
I liken Golden Tate to Steve Smith in that both are hard-nosed, in your face receivers that want a play to succeed even if their number isn't called. Transport that quality to Shep and our WR3.....and we will be seeing a good number of runs to the house.
I am saving Giantz_comeback's post for later in the year because if all his/her points come in to play, all the pundits will be switching their tune mid-season!
There's way too much pessimism on BBI.
I liken Golden Tate to Steve Smith in that both are hard-nosed, in your face receivers that want a play to succeed even if their number isn't called. Transport that quality to Shep and our WR3.....and we will be seeing a good number of runs to the house.
I am saving Giantz_comeback's post for later in the year because if all his/her points come in to play, all the pundits will be switching their tune mid-season!
The thing that stuck out to me on some of Saquons big runs last year especially 2nd half is when the OL opened up a clear hole for him he looked like he was shot out of a cannon. And he was so sudden and so fast the secondary D couldn't even get a good enough angle on him and it was off to the races.
The jitterbug runs at the line of scrimmage were great and entertaining but when he had a true hole to run through....wow.
Imagine an OL that actually blocks with a little more consistency? It is scary to think what his impact could be. Then the playaction game or quick passing game off of that with 2 receivers that are very good at getting quick seperation?
we also need to bleed the clock like crazy to keep our defense off the field for as long as possible. I don't see this unit being that much improved from last year (although I think they'll be better in 2020).
How many OLs in the league have "quality depth"? 2?
we also need to bleed the clock like crazy to keep our defense off the field for as long as possible. I don't see this unit being that much improved from last year (although I think they'll be better in 2020).
In this passing era I would normally hate that approach too. But our RB is a generational talent so rare in terms of the gamechanging ability that that approach can actually work if utilized properly.
Lets not pretend we arent going to throw the ball either. It just might be less than most other teams but with Barkley back there, a sound OL, and sound run concepts....its going to be a sight to see.
Lol not many teams have great depth at OL. Heck most teams starters are questionable lol
Wheeler has flashed and is prob better at LT than RT. Weve got Pulley, Evan Brown and a bunch of hopefuls Paul Adams, George, O'hagan (sp?) Mihalik was our first team in OTA and maybe he looked good....
we also need to bleed the clock like crazy to keep our defense off the field for as long as possible. I don't see this unit being that much improved from last year (although I think they'll be better in 2020).
It's actually a good strategy when so many defenses are now built to defend the pass and feature a lot of lighter/more mobile front 7 players.
If you attack some of these teams with a power running game, they're just not equipped to match up that way and you can wear them down.
Everything should be built around Barkley.
Engram averaged 80 yds a game when Shurmur figured out how to use him and/or went to him more in the 2nd half after OBJ went down.
Tate is a pretty good WR himself. We may not have a pure deep threat of OBJ but there are weapons here.
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God help us if any of the starters goes down for an extended length of time.
Lol not many teams have great depth at OL. Heck most teams starters are questionable lol
Wheeler has flashed and is prob better at LT than RT. Weve got Pulley, Evan Brown and a bunch of hopefuls Paul Adams, George, O'hagan (sp?) Mihalik was our first team in OTA and maybe he looked good....
Am I supposed to take you seriously when you talk about a Left Tackle looking good in an OTA, with no pads, no hitting?
Whistling Past The Graveyard
- but people will always find a way to complain about something.
Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, Zeitler, Remmers is a remarkable improvement from 2017 (and prior) OLs.
- but people will always find a way to complain about something.
Solder, Hernandez, Halapio, Zeitler, Remmers is a remarkable improvement from 2017 (and prior) OLs.
Whoop Dee Doo.
But, as I said above, God help us if any of our starters goes down for an extended period of time.
Yes but as another poster above pointed out you can make that statement just about any team in the league. Most teams don't have average or better starters at each position let alone a line up of back ups who will light it up if inserted either. The starters look better than anything weve had the last 7-8 years. Now just how good they can be is still TBD but the lineup look a whole lot better than last years unit.
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
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Which lead to even poorer play? How about we stop trying to rationalize why our offensive line is sub-par by saying well, every other team's O-Line isn't all that great, either? How about we demand excellence from the Giants' brain-trust and stop settling for mediocrity?
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
The team has plenty of speed at WR in Corey Coleman and rookie Darius Slayton. Speed is not the issue, their ability to play WR is.
Engram is prolly the fastest TE in the league, and is still improving.
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In comment 14452248 Klaatu said:
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Which lead to even poorer play? How about we stop trying to rationalize why our offensive line is sub-par by saying well, every other team's O-Line isn't all that great, either? How about we demand excellence from the Giants' brain-trust and stop settling for mediocrity?
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
The rest of the guys mentioned are nothing more than hopes and prayers... And quite frankly so are Remmers and Halapio, who are both likely below average at best OL and both coming off injuries.
No doubt, we should be better than last season... AND Gettleman can't do it all in a single off-season... BUT building a legitimate Top-10 OL for Saquon Barkley as well as our aging and/or rookie QB should be a priority in next offseason, IMHO
The rest of the guys mentioned are nothing more than hopes and prayers... And quite frankly so are Remmers and Halapio, who are both likely below average at best OL and both coming off injuries.
No doubt, we should be better than last season... AND Gettleman can't do it all in a single off-season... BUT building a legitimate Top-10 OL for Saquon Barkley as well as our aging and/or rookie QB should be a priority in next offseason, IMHO
Even as a pessimist take 3/5 of our line are guys that should be solid to better than that. Solder, Hernandez and Zietler. You want to say Pio and Remmers stink? Remmers 3 year grades at RT were right at league average or even slightly above. That is a decent sample size.
Pio is more on faith in what a guy with a good track record at OL sees.
Last year we got gashed not because of average play but atrocious line play in not one but multiple spots for much of the year. It totally sabotaged what we could do week in and week out.
Many are walking so scarred that they think we need an all pro at each position now otherwise we are going to stink...
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In comment 14452257 Giantz_comeback said:
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In comment 14452248 Klaatu said:
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Which lead to even poorer play? How about we stop trying to rationalize why our offensive line is sub-par by saying well, every other team's O-Line isn't all that great, either? How about we demand excellence from the Giants' brain-trust and stop settling for mediocrity?
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
Zeitler is a good RG, and he's definitely an upgrade over Brown, but he's hardly one of the best OG's in the league. Can we stop overvaluing our players, too?
Regardless, Gettleman still passed up the chance to get some top-tier offensive line talent in this last draft, gambling on Jon Halapio to do okay at Center and Mike Remmers to do okay at Right Tackle. Hopefully they will because, for the third time, the Giants have little or no quality depth backing them up.
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In comment 14452271 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14452257 Giantz_comeback said:
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In comment 14452248 Klaatu said:
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Which lead to even poorer play? How about we stop trying to rationalize why our offensive line is sub-par by saying well, every other team's O-Line isn't all that great, either? How about we demand excellence from the Giants' brain-trust and stop settling for mediocrity?
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
Zeitler is a good RG, and he's definitely an upgrade over Brown, but he's hardly one of the best OG's in the league. Can we stop overvaluing our players, too?
Regardless, Gettleman still passed up the chance to get some top-tier offensive line talent in this last draft, gambling on Jon Halapio to do okay at Center and Mike Remmers to do okay at Right Tackle. Hopefully they will because, for the third time, the Giants have little or no quality depth backing them up.
Did you see the condition of the defense last year? He allocated based on priority. No matter what he wasn't going to be able to make a premium pick at every position he would have liked to. Yes, we need them to stay healthy this is certainly true. However this is the state almost every team out there is in.
I also didn't say anything about the other three guys... Solder is an average OL who struggled in the 1H but played much better in the 2H (likely when he started to gel with Hernandez and started to get a better feel for what Eli could do inside the pocket vs Brady)... Zeitler and Hernandez should be good to very good OGs this year...
And no one is saying that we need 5 All-Pros... We don't have a single Pro Bowler let alone All-Pro... Maybe our two OGs will be this season? Maybe our OL will be the best in the NFC East rather than the worst (which they have been for a while)? My point was simply that we should strive to improve this unit next offseason particularly as we build around Barkley and our young QB
Rome wasn't built in a day...
I'm not enough of an expert, but one thing I'm going to try to learn this year is how to understand offensive systems enough to explain why some are successful with brand new coaches and some are not.
Even with talent, our offense started out putrid last year. Really abysmal. You can blame it entirely on the OL, some blame it on Eli. I don't know who to entirely blame it on, we really, really struggled.
I don't have as much hope as I would like for the early part of the year. Facing a couple of tough defenses we are set to hear excuses throughout September about how we need time for the OL to gel or whatever.
Not sure about that. Some offensive philosophies seem to work quicker and some take more time. I just want to understand more about Shurmur's and how it contrasts with those who are successful right away.
it's going to take the O-line quite awhile to gel. And they don't have much depth.////////
Yes and no. It will but barring crazy injuries 3 of our OL are in their 2nd year in the system now.
Solder and Hernendez and Pio (though it was an abbreviated season for him he played alot in preseason and in training camp).
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In comment 14452271 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14452257 Giantz_comeback said:
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In comment 14452248 Klaatu said:
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Which lead to even poorer play? How about we stop trying to rationalize why our offensive line is sub-par by saying well, every other team's O-Line isn't all that great, either? How about we demand excellence from the Giants' brain-trust and stop settling for mediocrity?
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
Zeitler is a good RG, and he's definitely an upgrade over Brown, but he's hardly one of the best OG's in the league. Can we stop overvaluing our players, too?
Regardless, Gettleman still passed up the chance to get some top-tier offensive line talent in this last draft, gambling on Jon Halapio to do okay at Center and Mike Remmers to do okay at Right Tackle. Hopefully they will because, for the third time, the Giants have little or no quality depth backing them up.
Zeitler is absolutely one of the best guards in the league and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Pro Bowls: 0
All Pro: 0
DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
Zeitler is a good RG, and he's definitely an upgrade over Brown, but he's hardly one of the best OG's in the league. Can we stop overvaluing our players, too?
Regardless, Gettleman still passed up the chance to get some top-tier offensive line talent in this last draft, gambling on Jon Halapio to do okay at Center and Mike Remmers to do okay at Right Tackle. Hopefully they will because, for the third time, the Giants have little or no quality depth backing them up.
Did you see the condition of the defense last year? He allocated based on priority. No matter what he wasn't going to be able to make a premium pick at every position he would have liked to. Yes, we need them to stay healthy this is certainly true. However this is the state almost every team out there is in.
Enough with the excuses. Enough with the rationalization. Either it was a priority or it wasn't, and obviously it wasn't, not compared to drafting Eli's successor and going hot and heavy on defense. Okay, fine, but that's the hill the brain-trust chose to die on, and whether or not it was a smart choice remains to be seen.
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Zeitler is absolutely one of the best guards in the league and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Pro Bowls: 0
All Pro: 0
Lol because that is the end all be all for the quality of a player? You could consitently be between the 3rd 4th or 5th best player out of 32 teams and never go to a pro bowl.
This unit is improved - not completed.
This unit is improved - not completed.
This^^^
Yes, he can absolutely be 1 of the best guards in the NFL with no “honors” to his name.
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DG said OL is a priority and has spent the last 2 years addressing it.
Clearly, it wasn't a priority in the 2019 draft, where he waited until the 7th Round to draft an offensive lineman.
Yet he got one of the best OGs in the league prior to the draft.
Zeitler is a good RG, and he's definitely an upgrade over Brown, but he's hardly one of the best OG's in the league. Can we stop overvaluing our players, too?
Regardless, Gettleman still passed up the chance to get some top-tier offensive line talent in this last draft, gambling on Jon Halapio to do okay at Center and Mike Remmers to do okay at Right Tackle. Hopefully they will because, for the third time, the Giants have little or no quality depth backing them up.
Did you see the condition of the defense last year? He allocated based on priority. No matter what he wasn't going to be able to make a premium pick at every position he would have liked to. Yes, we need them to stay healthy this is certainly true. However this is the state almost every team out there is in.
Enough with the excuses. Enough with the rationalization. Either it was a priority or it wasn't, and obviously it wasn't, not compared to drafting Eli's successor and going hot and heavy on defense. Okay, fine, but that's the hill the brain-trust chose to die on, and whether or not it was a smart choice remains to be seen.
We are in the Salary cap era. Last year he gave out the biggest contract ever to a LT, then gave a 15 mill contract on a guy that didnt unfortunately work out, then spent our top of 2nd rd pick on an OL. This year He went and traded for an established top OG, tried for the best RT available (D Williams) and then signed one with familiarity with both Shurmur or Shula. This is in the midst of addressing many other positions of great importance all the while trying to do it under tight salary cap considerations.
Can you nitpick and argue he could have done more? Maybe. But then a whole bunch would be complaining about the other positions that were neglected to put even more resource than he already did into the OL.
This unit is improved - not completed.
Don't assume that they'll complete the job in 2020. They might fall in love with a WR, or an ER, or a LB...who knows? And who knows when they'll be picking and who will still be on the board? Too many variables.
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2020 is the target for the OL.
This unit is improved - not completed.
Don't assume that they'll complete the job in 2020. They might fall in love with a WR, or an ER, or a LB...who knows? And who knows when they'll be picking and who will still be on the board? Too many variables.
Well, I didn't assume that - I just said it was the target. I think it is.
Of course, that could change. But I would be shocked if an OT wasn't taken within the first 2-3 rounds next April. We'll find out how much of a need OC is this year depending on how passable (or unplayable) Pio winds up being.
We're going to need two tackles, really. But we might be able to make it work by getting one in 2020 and then Solders replacement in 2021. I'd even consider cutting Solder after this year - it will save us 14M if I remember right.
From there, the name of the game will be depth and finding replacements before we're in Code Red territory again - which is how Reese allowed the entire unit to fall apart by being not nearly proactive enough.
We are in the Salary cap era. Last year he gave out the biggest contract ever to a LT, then gave a 15 mill contract on a guy that didnt unfortunately work out, then spent our top of 2nd rd pick on an OL. This year He went and traded for an established top OG, tried for the best RT available (D Williams) and then signed one with familiarity with both Shurmur or Shula. This is in the midst of addressing many other positions of great importance all the while trying to do it under tight salary cap considerations.
Can you nitpick and argue he could have done more? Maybe. But then a whole bunch would be complaining about the other positions that were neglected to put even more resource than he already did into the OL.
I would argue that nothing - and I mean absolutely nothing - was more important than strengthening the offensive line. This team is building its offense around a RB that they invested heavily in last year, along with an aging, relatively immobile QB or his young, inexperienced successor (also a major investment). In light of that, to give anything other than the offensive line top priority in the remainder of the draft was a capital mistake, in my opinion. A "tactical error," as I've said before. I hope it doesn't come back to haunt them.
That's what I said about last April.
It’s still football, and controlling the line of scrimmage still wins games - despite the passing league cliche’d BS
Tom Brady and Goff, the 2 SB QBs, both had more INTs than TDs in the playoffs ... while NE road their first round RB to the SB.
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Zeitler is absolutely one of the best guards in the league and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Pro Bowls: 0
All Pro: 0
cuz these matter...
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In comment 14452379 GothamGiants said:
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Zeitler is absolutely one of the best guards in the league and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Pro Bowls: 0
All Pro: 0
cuz these matter...
While it's an absurd "argument", at least Greg is attempting to counter with football relevant topics. It's a step in the right direction.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
loved the rod smith signing ... nice battering ram for short yardage/Barkley change-of-pace - and he doesn't fumble, like Gallman does (and apparently already did in OTAs. His ball security has been atrocious in the NFL)
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really like that they picked him up as well. they have a very talented backfield.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
loved the rod smith signing ... nice battering ram for short yardage/Barkley change-of-pace - and he doesn't fumble, like Gallman does (and apparently already did in OTAs. His ball security has been atrocious in the NFL)
did shurmur like running any 2-back sets in minny? Saquon and Smith in the same backfield could lead to some interesting matchups and play calling.
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But I would be shocked if an OT wasn't taken within the first 2-3 rounds next April.
That's what I said about last April.
I think they probably wanted to do that this year, but the pieces just didn't quite fall that way - and I'd not have wanted Gettleman to force it.
I think they knew back at draft time that Remmers was going to sign as a stopgap and I think they're comfortable with he and Solder being the bookends for 2019.
It becomes more "must" than "should" next year.
I think cluster drafting in the secondary wasn't a bad idea, though. We were really thin back there and now we have some actual depth.
We should be set at both guard spots for a bit and Solder/Remmers will be fine for 2019. Like I said, I'd like to just cut Solder after next year. And I do think next draft is going to be very trench-heavy.
I expect an average OL this year. Which will be enough for Barkley to have another phenomenal year and shouldn't get Eli/Daniel killed.
It won't be good enough to really dominate or totally dictate play the way the elite OL's in this league do - but I think we're getting closer. We're in a much better place now along the line than we were a couple years ago.
I see a ~.500 football team here right now - but I think 10+ wins is absolutely possible and should be the goal for 2020 and beyond.
This should be the last phase of the "rebuild" - next season, I want the Giants to have their sights set on winning the division and hopefully more.
I'll obviously hope that all happens a year early, as I think the 2019 Giants should be more watchable. We just don't have all the horses we need just yet.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
Because the job isn't complete. Because they're gambling on Halapio becoming a legitimate starter at Center, and Remmers playing Right Tackle as good as he did two years ago, and everyone staying healthy in the process.
Because saying that every team struggles to find quality O-Line depth (and let me know when you've researched ever other NFL team) so it's fine that the Giants don't have it is a cop-out. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing excuses.
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In comment 14452383 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14452379 GothamGiants said:
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Zeitler is absolutely one of the best guards in the league and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Pro Bowls: 0
All Pro: 0
cuz these matter...
While it's an absurd "argument", at least Greg is attempting to counter with football relevant topics. It's a step in the right direction.
here's an argument, have you or him seen the guy play?
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really like that they picked him up as well. they have a very talented backfield.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
Because the job isn't complete. Because they're gambling on Halapio becoming a legitimate starter at Center, and Remmers playing Right Tackle as good as he did two years ago, and everyone staying healthy in the process.
Because saying that every team struggles to find quality O-Line depth (and let me know when you've researched ever other NFL team) so it's fine that the Giants don't have it is a cop-out. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing excuses.
you are not very pleasant to converse with. I never said it was fine, simply acknowledging its not unique to our team. can you provide and example of a team that would satisfy your criteria of sufficient o line depth?
I for one am much more comfortable with our O-line depth chart than I have been in many years.
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In comment 14452463 2cents said:
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really like that they picked him up as well. they have a very talented backfield.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
Because the job isn't complete. Because they're gambling on Halapio becoming a legitimate starter at Center, and Remmers playing Right Tackle as good as he did two years ago, and everyone staying healthy in the process.
Because saying that every team struggles to find quality O-Line depth (and let me know when you've researched ever other NFL team) so it's fine that the Giants don't have it is a cop-out. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing excuses.
you are not very pleasant to converse with.
Oh, puh-leeze. What are you, twelve?
Why should I? You're the one who claimed the lack of quality depth was "an issue for everyone." Why don't you prove that?
Considering what our O-Line depth chart has looked like for the past seven years or so, that isn't saying much. But, hey, as long as you're comfortable I guess that's all that really matters, right?
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In comment 14452505 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14452463 2cents said:
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really like that they picked him up as well. they have a very talented backfield.
in regards to o line depth: is there one team in the league that has good to great o line back ups? seems to me that is an issue for everyone. they brought in 2 new starters this offseason, 1 of which is a consensus top 5 at his position over the last few years. i dont understand what there is to be upset about?
Because the job isn't complete. Because they're gambling on Halapio becoming a legitimate starter at Center, and Remmers playing Right Tackle as good as he did two years ago, and everyone staying healthy in the process.
Because saying that every team struggles to find quality O-Line depth (and let me know when you've researched ever other NFL team) so it's fine that the Giants don't have it is a cop-out. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing excuses.
you are not very pleasant to converse with.
Oh, puh-leeze. What are you, twelve?
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I never said it was fine, simply acknowledging its not unique to our team. can you provide and example of a team that would satisfy your criteria of sufficient o line depth?
Why should I? You're the one who claimed the lack of quality depth was "an issue for everyone." Why don't you prove that?
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I for one am much more comfortable with our O-line depth chart than I have been in many years.
Considering what our O-Line depth chart has looked like for the past seven years or so, that isn't saying much. But, hey, as long as you're comfortable I guess that's all that really matters, right?
haha cheers man, go giants.
Next year expect them to use at least one premium pick on an offensive lineman as next year's crop is considered deep at the top.
Let that sink in.
Good post. Hernandez played well 2nd half, Solder played well and Zietler is excellent thats 3/5 of the line. Pio had the highest grade of all our OL in game 1 and highest grade game 2 until he got hurt. Small sample size but DG and Shurmur obviously see something there. Remmers knows both Shurmur and Shulas systems and is going back to the position he plays best.
We may not be the best OL in the entire NFL or even the best in the division but we are very likely going to be markedly better than the one we saw in the second half of last season which was borderline adequate (and we saw how just borderline adequate opened things up for Barkley and Eli).
Let that sink in.
The Giants were the highest scoring team in the division last year.
Let that sink in.
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Have the worst OL in the division on paper despite all of this hype about best OL in 8 years.
Let that sink in.
The Giants were the highest scoring team in the division last year.
Let that sink in.
The Giants won 5 games last year.
Let that sink in.
I appreciate the Pom Pom waving but this group has a lot to prove before anyone fires up the hype machine.
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In comment 14452703 WillVAB said:
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Have the worst OL in the division on paper despite all of this hype about best OL in 8 years.
Let that sink in.
The Giants were the highest scoring team in the division last year.
Let that sink in.
The Giants won 5 games last year.
Let that sink in.
I appreciate the Pom Pom waving but this group has a lot to prove before anyone fires up the hype machine.
They have much less to prove on the offensive end than they do on the defensive end. Your beef above centered around the offense.
The rest of the division has depth players who would start here.
The Cowboys and Eagles had injuries well into the season last year and still managed to win playoff games with their lines.
This is such a delusional post I don’t even know where to begin. Peters is hurt? Ok, they just drafted the best LT in the draft.
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In comment 14452703 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Have the worst OL in the division on paper despite all of this hype about best OL in 8 years.
Let that sink in.
The Giants were the highest scoring team in the division last year.
Let that sink in.
The Giants won 5 games last year.
Let that sink in.
I appreciate the Pom Pom waving but this group has a lot to prove before anyone fires up the hype machine.
The offense was not the issue, it was the defense.
- And the offensive line is a lot better than last year. So, it can be the “worst OL in the division” and still be more than enough to win.
I forgot anything remotely positive on here is “Pom Pom Waving” - just started a fact. Have a lovely evening.
The second half offense over 8 games was very very good. Sure they had a stinker in there as most teams do if you want to single out games.
Chicago Bears (3rd ranked defense) - 30 points
Indianapolis Colts (11th ranked defense) - 27 points
Dallas Cowboys (7th ranked defense) - 35 points
Btw, Tennessee was 3rd in the league for defensive points per game. 7th overall. Do i need to post the weather report from that day?
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against tennessee. Didn't that loss effectively finish off any remaining chances they had of reaching the playoffs?
Chicago Bears (3rd ranked defense) - 30 points
Indianapolis Colts (11th ranked defense) - 27 points
Dallas Cowboys (7th ranked defense) - 35 points
Btw, Tennessee was 3rd in the league for defensive points per game. 7th overall. Do i need to post the weather report from that day?
Thank you
It's not going to be formidable because teams will stack the box and the QB will have to ake plays throughout the season. Opposing teams are going to stack the box and challenge GMEN ot beat them in the air.
It's not going to be formidable because teams will stack the box and the QB will have to ake plays throughout the season. Opposing teams are going to stack the box and challenge GMEN ot beat them in the air.
Let me guess
“Defenses are gonna watch film, key on Barkley, and force someone else to beat them” ?
The giants scored 40, 27, and 35 points in the games Barkley faced the most stacked boxes. Barkley compiled ~400 yards and 3 rushing TDs in those games. Odell was not on the field.
Yes, defenses will stack the box. Just like they did last year.
Numbers - ( New Window )
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Peters can't stay healthy, and Brooks is coming off a torn achilles in December. The Cowboys are relying on Frederick to come back from autominnue disease where he couldn't even work out, and Tyrone Smith has recurring back problems. The Redksins had like 14 offensive lineman play last year due to injury. Yeah on paper the names are better, but injuries change things on a dime in the NFL.
The rest of the division has depth players who would start here.
The Cowboys and Eagles had injuries well into the season last year and still managed to win playoff games with their lines.
This is such a delusional post I don’t even know where to begin. Peters is hurt? Ok, they just drafted the best LT in the draft.
The rest of the division has depth players who would start here? Like who? Dallas offensive line actually took a big step back this year. Lael Collins had a disappointing year. Connor Williams ditto. The Redskins absolutely fell apart after 3 of their starting olinemen went down midseason. The Eagles better hope Dillard is the answer because Peter's looks cooked. Brooks is a huge loss and he got hurt super late in the season.
Next year the offensive line class is poised to be much better. We could use upgrades at RT and C..plus hopefully a guy that will take over for Solder. I'd bet dollars to donuts that gets addressed next year. This team isn't built to contend in 2019. Why the urgency to fix the offensive line with players they didn't think we're as good of as others on the board is how you end up with Erik Flowers and Eli apple.
How’d the Giants manage to score so many points in the games without Beckham and Barkley seeing the most stacked boxes of the season (weeks 14, 16, 17)?
The Giants happen to have a RB who was: 2018’s 2nd leading rusher, leader in scrimmage yards, leader in 20+ yard runs, leader in 40+ yard runs, and the NFL’s leader in broken tackles ... as a rookie.
And the OL will be better.
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I think our run game will be stronger but it will also be hampered by the loss of Beckham as a deep threat. No one fears our WRs. They feared Beckham.
How’d the Giants manage to score so many points in the games without Beckham and Barkley seeing the most stacked boxes of the season (weeks 14, 16, 17)?
The Giants happen to have a RB who was: 2018’s 2nd leading rusher, leader in scrimmage yards, leader in 20+ yard runs, leader in 40+ yard runs, and the NFL’s leader in broken tackles ... as a rookie.
And the OL will be better.
Those teams were in awful spots. Extraploting from 4 games against what other teams were circling as a win is a fools errand. The cowboys literally had nothing to play for and didn't even turn on the intensity till halfway through the 4th. It's why we should be encouraged about Shurmur because he had the team playing hard and ready out the gate in what was a loss cause.
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In comment 14453007 TD said:
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I think our run game will be stronger but it will also be hampered by the loss of Beckham as a deep threat. No one fears our WRs. They feared Beckham.
How’d the Giants manage to score so many points in the games without Beckham and Barkley seeing the most stacked boxes of the season (weeks 14, 16, 17)?
The Giants happen to have a RB who was: 2018’s 2nd leading rusher, leader in scrimmage yards, leader in 20+ yard runs, leader in 40+ yard runs, and the NFL’s leader in broken tackles ... as a rookie.
And the OL will be better.
Those teams were in awful spots. Extraploting from 4 games against what other teams were circling as a win is a fools errand. The cowboys literally had nothing to play for and didn't even turn on the intensity till halfway through the 4th. It's why we should be encouraged about Shurmur because he had the team playing hard and ready out the gate in what was a loss cause.
I extrapolated nothing. Those stats are from the 16 game season. The specific games I mentioned were played under the exact circumstances the previous poster mentioned : no Odell and stacked fronts.
Barkley is incredible. The OL is better. He, and the running game, will be “formidable”.
He is a big play machine who is also the most elusive RB in the game (20+, 40+, broken tackle leader) ... a “stacked box” does not stop him.
Zeitler is the better player, and the far superior pass blocker, but he's not leaps and bounds better of a run blocker than Jamon Brown.
I posted this in a previous thread but worth mentioning again; Remmers coming off surgery Solder coming off surgery, Halopio coming off a missed year, Zeitler new system.
Don't be surprised if this o-line isn't dynamite coming out of the gate and doesn't gel as well as the line that played 8 straight games together to finish last year.
Zeitler is the better player, and the far superior pass blocker, but he's not leaps and bounds better of a run blocker than Jamon Brown.
I posted this in a previous thread but worth mentioning again; Remmers coming off surgery Solder coming off surgery, Halopio coming off a missed year, Zeitler new system.
Don't be surprised if this o-line isn't dynamite coming out of the gate and doesn't gel as well as the line that played 8 straight games together to finish last year.
Solders is a clean up. Surgery is surgery but about as minor as they get.
Remmers wasn't signed until they were comfortable with what they saw.
Herny, Pio, Zietler all healthy.
Lets see when we get to Aug how healthy they are. Then we can be concerned if need be
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The Giants need to improve running the football to be average. As good as Barkley was, the Giants were a bottom 3rd rushing team.
Zeitler is the better player, and the far superior pass blocker, but he's not leaps and bounds better of a run blocker than Jamon Brown.
I posted this in a previous thread but worth mentioning again; Remmers coming off surgery Solder coming off surgery, Halopio coming off a missed year, Zeitler new system.
Don't be surprised if this o-line isn't dynamite coming out of the gate and doesn't gel as well as the line that played 8 straight games together to finish last year.
Solders is a clean up. Surgery is surgery but about as minor as they get.
Remmers wasn't signed until they were comfortable with what they saw.
Herny, Pio, Zietler all healthy.
Lets see when we get to Aug how healthy they are. Then we can be concerned if need be
It's not about health in August, it's about missed reps in the offseason and missed reps together. Effectively 3/5 of the line will be new -- and as the Giants have proven repeatedly over the last 10 years, continuity is as important as talent upfront.
The Giants were a bad running team with arguably the best running back in the league. Really think about that.
Before they are formidable, they need to get to average. And that will require markedly improved blocking.
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The 2nd most impt position on OLINE is RT. ANd the 3rd msot is center. And we have THREE new OL this year - you can;t count Hap.
It's not going to be formidable because teams will stack the box and the QB will have to ake plays throughout the season. Opposing teams are going to stack the box and challenge GMEN ot beat them in the air.
Let me guess
“Defenses are gonna watch film, key on Barkley, and force someone else to beat them” ?
The giants scored 40, 27, and 35 points in the games Barkley faced the most stacked boxes. Barkley compiled ~400 yards and 3 rushing TDs in those games. Odell was not on the field.
Yes, defenses will stack the box. Just like they did last year. Numbers - ( New Window )
If you want to believe the last few weeks meant anything -- go ahead.
Why do you think the other teams did it?
The Giant Homer doesn't care. Not does the Giant Homer care that they were a 5-11 team last year that 4 of their wins were against backup QB's. The Giant Homer thinks the backup QB's and Starting QB's for the other team were about even anyways. The Giant Homer thinks the opposing team stacked the box for little-to-no reason.
I applaud your extreme homerism this offseason. You're posts are very entertaining for a team that is a 6-10 caliber team. Next offseason I'll be on aboard with your extremism provided Jones looks at least "pretty good."
In the meantime, please continue with your off-season homerism posts. It provides enthusiasm before he games start and gives other homer fans the hope before reality sets in and at best we are 7-9.
I'm predicting 6-10 and 5-11 and the best thing about next year;s team is that they will show they are consistently inconsistent. And next year will get more homerism posts from you but probably with a little more teeth based on reality and not homerism.
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Peters can't stay healthy, and Brooks is coming off a torn achilles in December. The Cowboys are relying on Frederick to come back from autominnue disease where he couldn't even work out, and Tyrone Smith has recurring back problems. The Redksins had like 14 offensive lineman play last year due to injury. Yeah on paper the names are better, but injuries change things on a dime in the NFL.
The rest of the division has depth players who would start here.
The Cowboys and Eagles had injuries well into the season last year and still managed to win playoff games with their lines.
This is such a delusional post I don’t even know where to begin. Peters is hurt? Ok, they just drafted the best LT in the draft.
Yup. The Eagles added Dillard the best LT in the draft in the first round, and Dallas added a "starter" rated OG/OC in Conner McGovern out of PSU.
We got George AA, who is the essential "wing and a prayer" to ever be a starting OL at any position. Admittedly, he has a lot of athletic upside, but still...
Dallas and Philly absolutely have back up OLs who would start for the Giants.
But we got Barkley, and he does make an OL better, or at least look better, by a significant margin.
Gettleman better start feeding that OL pipeline in 2020. Or we can pray for a miraculous transformation from Wheeler - it's possible, just unlikely.
This OP is way over-optimistic, and seeing the world through blue tinted glasses in May.
year out of Eli . The defense will take some time to
get going and define themselves with a fairly easy
schedule in the beginning . I expect an even better year
for Barkley he is as dedicated as they come and
Myles Jack is still looking for his jock strap .
I was so excited just to see him in pre-season
this year is gonna be special . May we stay healthy and
get a few breaks be disciplined not to make the dumb
penalties anything can happen.
The issue in the 2nd half especially was defense not offense. And the running game was a big part of the 2nd half success.
Now do certain things mainly health have to fall into place for this OL to be above average or better? Yes . But contrary to doom sayers there is reason for optimism. We are no longer relying on Omameh and Flowers on the right side. And Zietler might be the best player on the the entire OL.
The issue in the 2nd half especially was defense not offense. And the running game was a big part of the 2nd half success.
Now do certain things mainly health have to fall into place for this OL to be above average or better? Yes . But contrary to doom sayers there is reason for optimism. We are no longer relying on Omameh and Flowers on the right side. And Zietler might be the best player on the the entire OL.
You're quoting a useless stat and believe it has meaning. What you call "doomsayers" some of us call"realists."
Someone who can be borrowed in practice at little time cost to the home unit.
O-line injuries are a big potential problem, especially at tackle. Hoping that at least one prospect can develop and that Wheeler can be an effective swing tackle.