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Schmeelk points out only 14 players left from pre-Gettleman...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2019 4:00 pm
and two of those 14 are Paul Perkins and Avery Moss.

The amount of turnover that will have occurred in two years by September 2019 is going to be stunning.
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Rip the bandaid off  
Brown Recluse : 5/22/2019 4:03 pm : link
.
And Eli pre-dates Reese...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/22/2019 4:10 pm : link
as GM, so only 13 who were acquired by Reese.

If you want to be technical, DeOssie was drafted during the time when Gettleman was still with the Giants, so there's only 12 players who were acquired while DG was not with the Giants.

Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
superspynyg : 5/22/2019 4:11 pm : link
By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.
How'd he..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/22/2019 4:15 pm : link
do that just being a yes-man??
So, 14 more Appreciation Threads to go?  
Klaatu : 5/22/2019 4:16 pm : link
Got it.
Whats his plan  
GiantGrit : 5/22/2019 4:18 pm : link
though?
RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/22/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14452545 superspynyg said:
Quote:
By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.


Will shitting on Reese ever stop? He helped us get 2 Super Bowls. Coughlin had input on the draft as many people do not want to admit.

It wasn't just Reese, it was a little bit of everything that got us to this point.
we need to direct more hatred towards Marc Ross  
Platos : 5/22/2019 4:24 pm : link
Reese shouldn't be the final scapegoat.
I'm very impressed with the rebuild.  
mittenedman : 5/22/2019 4:27 pm : link
He's cycled through a ton of guys and in just 2 offseasons the framework's in place for the Next Gen team and he did most of it through the draft. It's a homegrown team built the right way the fans can invest in.
Well you cant say he isnt decisive  
GiantsBlowout : 5/22/2019 4:31 pm : link
This guy does not mess around.

He is re-shaping the team to his liking. I dont think he's through yet.

He got rid of some dead wood, some problem players. Other than OBJ
who had some issues he has not gotten rid of anyone notable. Actually Dave got good value for Beckham and signed Tate to replace him.

Landon Collins, loved the guy, but he was not a cover guy, he should be a LBer. Ferocious tackler but speedier receivers were getting behind him.

I would have re-signed Brown at RB to spell Barkley but Dave apparently was afraid of Brown's health issues.

Gettleman did not inherit the roster of the century.


I would have re-si
Surprised..  
morrison40 : 5/22/2019 4:56 pm : link
Its that many
RE: RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/22/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14452555 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14452545 superspynyg said:


Quote:


By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.



Will shitting on Reese ever stop? He helped us get 2 Super Bowls. Coughlin had input on the draft as many people do not want to admit.

It wasn't just Reese, it was a little bit of everything that got us to this point.


No. He was a arrogant asshole whose part getting the Giants to the those was as a team w guys like EA and Gettleman. If you want to laid him go ahead. I think he wS an arrogant asshole who after being part of that ruined the team. The Ross hire and keeping that turd wipes out a lot


Feel free to defend him and love him. I donít others not to love the guy. I just think people who think he was the major force in building those teams are just as dumb as Reese.
I just realiZed  
huygens20 : 5/22/2019 5:04 pm : link
We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT
RE: RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
FStubbs : 5/22/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14452555 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14452545 superspynyg said:


Quote:


By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.



Will shitting on Reese ever stop? He helped us get 2 Super Bowls. Coughlin had input on the draft as many people do not want to admit.

It wasn't just Reese, it was a little bit of everything that got us to this point.


This. Anyone who denies Coughlin had a hand in those rosters, look at how he quickly signed Ereck Flowers after he had run his course in NY. That's not something you do if Flowers was forced on you from the beginning.
So I guess we can't keeping use Reese as an excuse  
Vanzetti : 5/22/2019 5:25 pm : link
This will be an interesting season and tell us all we need to know about the DG era.
RE: I just realiZed  
26.2 : 5/22/2019 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14452627 huygens20 said:
Quote:
We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT


and a starting safety. And an edge rusher via draft. And cap savings. And that led to signing of Tate.
BURN IT DOWN!!  
ZogZerg : 5/22/2019 5:29 pm : link
And it has only been about a year and a half.
RE: RE: I just realiZed  
PatersonPlank : 5/22/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14452661 26.2 said:
Quote:
In comment 14452627 huygens20 said:


Quote:


We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT



and a starting safety. And an edge rusher via draft. And cap savings. And that led to signing of Tate.


I prefer to look at it as we traded OBJ for Lawrence (starting rookie NT), Peppers (former 1st rd safety and starter), and Baker (starting, 1st rd picked slot cb). Plus cap space, etc. To me this is a good deal.

So in essence we got 3 1st round picked starters for OBJ.
Now go win some games  
UberAlias : 5/22/2019 5:51 pm : link
.
RE: I just realiZed  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14452627 huygens20 said:
Quote:
We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT


You're a persistent one, aren't you?
RE: RE: I just realiZed  
DonQuixote : 5/22/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14452701 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14452627 huygens20 said:


Quote:


We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT



You're a persistent one, aren't you?


like a tick maybe
RE: RE: RE: I just realiZed  
Klaatu : 5/22/2019 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14452712 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 14452701 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 14452627 huygens20 said:


Quote:


We traded Odell Beckham for a 2 down NT



You're a persistent one, aren't you?



like a tick maybe


Or herpes.
Or  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/22/2019 6:09 pm : link
a tick with herpes.
RE: RE: RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
Breaker : 5/22/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14452657 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14452555 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14452545 superspynyg said:


Quote:


By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.



Will shitting on Reese ever stop? He helped us get 2 Super Bowls. Coughlin had input on the draft as many people do not want to admit.

It wasn't just Reese, it was a little bit of everything that got us to this point.



This. Anyone who denies Coughlin had a hand in those rosters, look at how he quickly signed Ereck Flowers after he had run his course in NY. That's not something you do if Flowers was forced on you from the beginning.


Your point about Coughlin is somewhat valid in this regard. Reese was in way over his head, couldn't evaluate talent well and ultimately didn't know how to build a team. After Coughlin helped win two Super Bowls as the field general, he was in a the best position to know what type of personnel achieved those results. Meaning strong OL, DL, and balanced offensive attack.

He was extremely close to Mara and the mutual respect was
very apparent. Like a son or younger brother to Wellington. He could have exercised his influence on roster build. If he didn't that's on him. If he did then partially culpable. But he's not the one studying the film on college recruits or pro personnel for months on end. So I give him a bit of a pass on that.

But drafting to rebuild the offensive line at the end of the second super bowl was a key priority. Not having that focus should be as much on Coughlin as Reese on that point. Maybe not picking the actual player but making it an organizational priority. It was the only way his QB could excel given his immobility.
Breaker  
Klaatu : 5/22/2019 6:40 pm : link
Jerry Reese spent his first ten years with the Giants as a scout on the college and pro levels (1994-2004). In 2004 he was named their Director of Player Personnel, where he was heavily involved with the draft, and in 2007 he became their GM. No doubt he had a hand in drafting guys like Chris Snee, signing and re-signing guys like Shaun O'Hara and Kareem MacKenzie. and who can forget the uproar when he said good-bye to Luke Pettigout and moved David Diehl to LT? He also brought in some good depth guys like Kevin Boothe. Hell, even Guy Whimper played a role, however small, in the 2007 championship run.

I'm quite sure he knew how to evaluate talent and build a roster, but he wasn't perfect. He certainly made his share of mistakes, especially towards the end of his tenure, but he was also the victim of some horrible luck, which compounded each mistake. For me, his biggest mistake was hiring Marc Ross, and then keeping him around long after his expiration date had passed.

I'm not crazy about defending Jerry Reese, but I don't like to see him needlessly and unfairly maligned, either.
RE: RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
superspynyg : 5/22/2019 6:50 pm : link
In comment 14452555 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14452545 superspynyg said:


Quote:


By Reece Engram in rd 1 and Sheppard and Tomlinson in rd 2.

Shows you how bad he was

O e note OBJ had the talent to stick. Gettleman had his reasons for trading him.



Will shitting on Reese ever stop? He helped us get 2 Super Bowls. Coughlin had input on the draft as many people do not want to admit.

It wasn't just Reese, it was a little bit of everything that got us to this point.


Iím sorry but Reese was not a good drafter. Especially at the end of his career.
Apple
Pugh
Richburg
Flowers
Moore
Wilson
Austin
Sintim

Just to name a few
One thing I left out.  
Klaatu : 5/22/2019 7:06 pm : link
I think ultimately Reese became a victim of his early successes. I think they seriously impaired his judgement as time went on, as he most likely gave himself more credit than he deserved. I think he began to believe his own press clippings, so to speak, and assumed an air of infallibility.
RE: Breaker  
Breaker : 5/22/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14452748 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Jerry Reese spent his first ten years with the Giants as a scout on the college and pro levels (1994-2004). In 2004 he was named their Director of Player Personnel, where he was heavily involved with the draft, and in 2007 he became their GM. No doubt he had a hand in drafting guys like Chris Snee, signing and re-signing guys like Shaun O'Hara and Kareem MacKenzie. and who can forget the uproar when he said good-bye to Luke Pettigout and moved David Diehl to LT? He also brought in some good depth guys like






Kevin Boothe. Hell, even Guy Whimper played a role, however small, in the 2007 championship run.

I'm quite sure he knew how to evaluate talent and build a roster, but he wasn't perfect. He certainly made his share of mistakes, especially towards the end of his tenure, but he was also the victim of some horrible luck, which compounded each mistake. For me, his biggest mistake was hiring Marc Ross, and then keeping him around long after his expiration date had passed.

I'm not crazy about defending Jerry Reese, but I don't like to see him needlessly and unfairly maligned, either.


Towards the end of his tenure? His drafts overall from 2007 on were some of the worst drafts in the league. His last draft was 2017. That's eleven years of drafts. He did have a couple of good years but he ranked near the bottom of the league by any measure from 2009 onward. So when he's not GM but head scout we give him credit but for the bulk of his time as GM time we give him a pass?

As well signing his QB to a mega contract knowing his mobility weaknesses and not building an above average offensive line was malfeasance. Even the Colts recognized this after Luck went down repeatedly with serious injuries.

At least they should have fired Reese if they were going to get rid of Coughlin. Even after that he couldn't build a line.
Dude, that's revisionist history at its finest.  
Klaatu : 5/22/2019 7:29 pm : link
But if it makes you feel better, have at it. I'm done here.
Guess that  
TMS : 5/22/2019 8:34 pm : link
DG like many of us thought. Reese and his hire Ross were incompetent and should have been fired at least 5 years ago. Either one get a job yet? Thought not . Lets move on from these two arrogant losers. We are on the right track now IMO.
Really takes stones to call people arrogant losers  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/22/2019 9:03 pm : link
From the couch. Especially people far more accomplished in their field.
I think Reese was a good scout  
Johnny5 : 5/22/2019 11:20 pm : link
... especially for skill positions. But he was not a good GM. And Ross... Gah
Interesting..  
Thunderstruck27 : 5/23/2019 12:18 am : link
Coughlin has had success without Reese. Reese...not so much without Coughlin. Prove me wrong.
JPP, a double digit sack and QB hit guy with Tampa Bay,  
Reese's Pieces : 5/23/2019 12:54 am : link
a team where the next most sacks anyone had was about 7. See how he does this year.

Kenny Phillips, a great selection who contributed to the championship before the injuries started.

Hakeem Nicks, one of the 2011 playoff MVPs whose almost routine catch of the Hail Mary against the Packers will be remembered. Not sure why he left. At first people said culture, then injury. Bad move leaving. Bad move going to Colts. He was Flacco's 4th receiver and rarely was thrown to.

Victor Cruz. Not a draft pick. Made the play that sent the Giants on the road to the Super Bowl instead of on the road home. Still detest management for not giving Cruz another year of rehabilitation before cutting ties, because of what he had done for the Giants on the field and because he had worked so hard for two years to rehab himself.

What goes around, comes around and this hit Reese between the eyes.

Prince Amukamara, has played corner in 29 of 32 games for the Bears last two years.

Joseph and Hankins still active.

Collins. Just let him slide by for now.

His drafts did get worse, though. Tried too hard to force players into the offensive line.
a few mistakes  
GiantsBlowout : 5/23/2019 4:55 am : link
I would have tried to keep Hankins, Prince, and Eli Apple

These were our draftees and you cant have enough cover DBs in the new NFL where all the rules favor the passing game.

Even if Apple and Prince were used as backups they could cover.

Collins was a keeper, but he should have beefed up and played LBer . MLBer

I realize these were not all Gettleman decisions and money was a big factor.

Perhaps if Eli took a haircut like Tom Brady did/does we could have kept a few of these talents.

I see what Gettleman is doing though- He is changing the culture by changing the bodies
That's 14...  
silverfox : 5/23/2019 6:28 am : link
...too many.
RE: RE: RE: Only 2 players drafted in rd 1 or two  
giants#1 : 5/23/2019 7:26 am : link
In comment 14452657 FStubbs said:
Quote:


This. Anyone who denies Coughlin had a hand in those rosters, look at how he quickly signed Ereck Flowers after he had run his course in NY. That's not something you do if Flowers was forced on you from the beginning.


I agree TC and his staff deserve some blame for the lack of development, but Flowers is a bad example. Jags were pretty desperate at that point and (IIRC) were down 2-3 OTs already. Flowers at least had starting experience, which is more than you can say about anyone else that was available at that point.

I'm sure most front offices value the coaches input at draft time, but the scouting staff is still doing the heavy lifting. I'd guess the scouts narrow things down to a handful of players and the coaches then scout those guys in depth and provide feedback on who will fit best.

IMO, the biggest "loss" was Reese getting promoted to GM. He was a very good scout and replacing him with Marc Ross was a massive downgrade. Sure he was still involved in scouting as GM, but obviously he had much less time with all the other responsibilities.

As Director of Player Personnel, Reese helped draft (2004-2007):
Rivers (Eli)
Snee
Gibril Wilson
Webster
Tuck
Jacobs
Kiwi
Cofield
Aaron Ross
Steve Smith
Jay Alford
Zak DeOssie
Kevin Boss
Bradshaw
While they are trying to win now, the Giants are in the midst of a  
Ira : 5/23/2019 8:04 am : link
major rebuild - which should be mostly done in 2020. I think the fans are ahead of much of the media in terms of understanding this.
Iíd be curious what the league average is over the same time period  
mfsd : 5/23/2019 8:08 am : link
DG has no doubt been doing a major housecleaning, but I bet a lot of other teams have had significant turnover too.

Reality in todayís NFL. It does stand out how few of Reeseís later years draft picks turned out to be real players
"In Reese we Tru ..."  
George : 5/23/2019 8:09 am : link
Oh, wait a second ...
I don't know why..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/23/2019 8:28 am : link
people get panned for saying Reese's job performance nose-dived. And why panning him means there isn't an appreciation for the great work he did earlier.

George Young declined. It happens.

Reese was an integral part of the SB teams - but his drafts post - 2010 were terrible. Not just bad, but by many metrics, league-worst.

When you go 7 seasons (and you could actually make it 8) that return only a couple viable starters, it will ruin a team.

That's exactly what happened.
If only  
Harvest Blend : 5/23/2019 9:02 am : link
Gettleman had a plan.

What might have been.
It's been a while since one could say  
idiotsavant : 5/23/2019 10:22 am : link
GM, good, HC seems good, DC, seems great, roster shaping up, as it seems now.

Appreciate
...  
christian : 5/23/2019 10:51 am : link
Reese had a nice run, and his effectiveness dipped, as do all leaders over a long enough curve. It was time for him to go.

Gettleman and staff have made a choice on a number of the players Reese selected, and as fans we might not be thrilled by many of those players.

But a number of players from 2013 on are still employed in the NFL; Pugh, Hankins, Beckham, Richburg, Kennard, Flowers, Collins, Hart, Apple, Shepard, Goodson, Engram, Tomlinson, Gallman.

I'd also consider 1) Gettleman's rosters haven't actually accomplished anything of note quite yet (I do like what he's done) 2) Gettleman also traded all of the good players and has also picked higher in both drafts than Reese ever did (I understand the reason for '18 was on Reese, '19 I put in Gettleman).
after 2017  
Gordo : 5/23/2019 11:47 am : link
the culture needed an enema. It was a mess post coughlin-Mcadoo, they had no vet leadership or players left from the championship teams to really hold things together. Losing guys like Snee and Tuck really did a number to the culture of the team that left a vacuum for OBJ to fill.

Winning in 2016 did more damage than anybody wants to admit. It gave Mcadoo enough cache and arrogance that contributed to the in fighting in 2017.

Gettlemen was charged with coming in and putting this team through Cancer treatment. Putting in the right coach that can adapt his system to Eli, drafting a RB that can stabilize the offense, clear out players by trading or not resigning to free up cap space, collecting draft picks to rebuild defense, as well as getting a replacement for Eli.

If DG hits on Djones he will be forever guilded here on BBI, if he misses on jones but all of his defensive picks hit, he will be considered a terrible GM.

I like where we are going, we have the foundation pieces in place, this feels very 2004/2005ish team to me. Return to running the football, with contributing offensive weapons that are more than the sum of there parts. If the O can control the ball, the defense will perform and keep them off the field. Much like Dallas did in 2016.
Reese drafted freak athletes  
Alan in Toledo : 5/23/2019 11:48 am : link
and once in a while one turned out to be a football player.
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