Anyone follow Chuck Knoxx? Pretty good post today

Encouraging vision. I would add that the future cap flexibility will help us to add a piece of needed, or even better , resign our own.

properly so for the most part, his abject failure to demand that OBJ put team first, his willful blindness to the Norman meltdown ("I wasn't looking at that part of the field"), was a major step to it being open season for inmates to rule. MacAdoo inherited that and he was not up to that challenge (as well as his many other failings).

team sucked (partially his doing), was he going to come down hard on his best player that was pretty much our whole offense that year and the only reason we won any games with a league worst defense.

critical of Gettleman and much of the what the Giants are doing... but I am shocked at the press these past 24 hours re: L. Collins.

This guy won't shut up about the Giants, he opens his yap again and the media simply takes his opinion and runs with it like it's fact.

The Giants can be criticized for not getting anything for Collins, but not for cutting bait. He was a good, not great Safety who wanted to get paid like an elite safety.

and he may have been a negative locker room presence.

If DG wants to turn over the culture of this team, who could blame him?

...I was never enamored with OBJs prima donna antics; and although Landon Collins gave it his all, I was never impressed with this guy's ability to play in space with the ball in the air.

But there is no fucking way that the New York Giants have sucked for the last several years because of these two guys. We sucked first and foremost because:

(1) We had Jerry Reese's idiotic drafts;
(2) We had the worst offensive line in the NFL;
(3) We had so many fucking injuries.

But the miserable, shit ass team we've been rooting for was NOT created by OBJ and Landon Collins.

'was put in a tough predicament'. The passive voice is incorrect. He made that choice, and it was the wrong choice, it wasn't made by someone else. From that point on, everyone knew he had lost control of Odell, and his game management seemed to go down hill at the same time. I'm not saying the two were related. If you forego your leadership position w/r/t your best player, it sends a terrible message to the rest of the team. I'm not saying it was easy to take him off the field, but wtf, maybe the rest of the team would have sucked up and said, s..t, he's doing it for us and played harder, better. It was a God awful look for the franchise.

You would think that a boy scout troop could win 10 games. Having a good culture is important, but that's not everything. I think people are greatly underestimating how much we are going to miss the immense talent of OBJ specifically. He won us games at times. Culture and character can only get your so far. We need talent. People talk about Saquon and him being high character. That wouldn't have mattered if he wasn't an other worldly athlete.

Nor do I see anyone working on their own, at home, beach , California.

No more....different rules

No more....I over team.

I like it

1. Change the culture in the locker room, and by extension on the field, too. That includes cancelling all "scholarships."

2. Put the financial house in order. Clear enough cap space to be as active as you need to be in free agency.

3. Turn a perennial loser into a reliable and consistent winner, primarily through successful drafting.

Some of his individual moves have been questionable. Some may even appear to be counter-productive. But, regardless of his rhetoric to the contrary, anyone with half a brain knew this was not going to be a "quick-fix," nor was it going to be completely painless. Some feathers were definitely going to get ruffled in the short-term. Sacrifices were going to be made to insure the long-term health of the team.

In comment 14452664 Blue The Dog said:

Quote:

You would think that a boy scout troop could win 10 games. Having a good culture is important, but that's not everything. I think people are greatly underestimating how much we are going to miss the immense talent of OBJ specifically. He won us games at times. Culture and character can only get your so far. We need talent. People talk about Saquon and him being high character. That wouldn't have mattered if he wasn't an other worldly athlete.

To rearrange the cliche:
"Character" is necessary, but of course it is not sufficient.

No one said you can win with character alone; but talent alone will not get you very far either. You need both. (see Barkley, S.)

Based only on my very limited experience coaching youth sports, I'd rather go into battle with a team with above average "character" and sense of "team" and only an average talent level, compared to the reverse.

This is not about merit badges or the "honor roll"; it is more about, for example, the new vets getting the OL to "hang" together (versus Flowers and Hart off in their own corner).

In comment 14452757 KeoweeFan said:

Quote:

In comment 14452664 Blue The Dog said: Quote: You would think that a boy scout troop could win 10 games. Having a good culture is important, but that's not everything. I think people are greatly underestimating how much we are going to miss the immense talent of OBJ specifically. He won us games at times. Culture and character can only get your so far. We need talent. People talk about Saquon and him being high character. That wouldn't have mattered if he wasn't an other worldly athlete. Based only on my very limited experience coaching youth sports, I'd rather go into battle with a team with above average "character" and sense of "team" and only an average talent level, compared to the reverse. .

OFc you would. You're a coach. Te kids you are coaching are not making money and as a result can;t influence management to get rid of you if he doesn;t like how you are treating him. SO you have the power to influence teh game how you want it to be played. OBJ got he huge contract because at one point he was amazingly sensational all on his own. If you ruffle the superstar player's feathers and you dont win, you're gone almost immediately. Instead you are afforded the luxury of having a lot of control to play the game and have kids react in teh manner you desire. A Pro Football coach with his job on the line doesn;t have the same luxury.

are being over rated on this site. They are not everything, but they are 100% needed ingredients for championship teams.

Winning is a habit. Watch your thoughts, they become your beliefs. Watch your beliefs, they become your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch your actions, they become your habits. Watch your habits, they become your character.

Leadership rests not only upon ability, not only upon capacity; having the capacity to lead is not enough. The leader must be willing to use it. His leadership is then based on truth and character. There must be truth in the purpose and will power in the character.

True then, true today.

The first person I thought of was the coach of the Seahawks and Rams.

According to ESPN, it’s because Gettleman’s an effing racist.

Oh, and Collins was let go because, like with Climate change and Ebola outbreaks, it’s all Eli’s fault.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14452664 Blue The Dog said:

Quote:

You would think that a boy scout troop could win 10 games. Having a good culture is important, but that's not everything. I think people are greatly underestimating how much we are going to miss the immense talent of OBJ specifically. He won us games at times. Culture and character can only get your so far. We need talent. People talk about Saquon and him being high character. That wouldn't have mattered if he wasn't an other worldly athlete.

I love(d) OBj. But what was our overall record with him?

He's a reactionary who couldn't see that this team was in turmoil and now he's a hero for figuring out the obvious? I like you DK, but this guy is a schmuck with no ability for critical thinking.

In comment 14452710 Klaatu said:

Quote:

1. Change the culture in the locker room, and by extension on the field, too. That includes cancelling all "scholarships." 2. Put the financial house in order. Clear enough cap space to be as active as you need to be in free agency. 3. Turn a perennial loser into a reliable and consistent winner, primarily through successful drafting. Some of his individual moves have been questionable. Some may even appear to be counter-productive. But, regardless of his rhetoric to the contrary, anyone with half a brain knew this was not going to be a "quick-fix," nor was it going to be completely painless. Some feathers were definitely going to get ruffled in the short-term. Sacrifices were going to be made to insure the long-term health of the team.

Good post sums things up pretty well . He made some
difficult am un-popular moves .
With two top 10 picks and an unexpected trade he moved
on from one of the most exciting players in the NFL
Passed on a number of QB's but replaced the exciting
talented OBJ with a talented exciting Barkley .
with the other he got what everyone was waiting for
the heir apparent to the legendary Eli Manning .
We had a team that was lacking in talent and had numerous
players that had questionable attitudes within the
locker room and in some ways public guys like
Collins who I felt was one of the best SS in football
but you could see during the games the opponents were't
to crazy about him either .
DG did what he felt was needed and talk about pressure
and what he has been through I think he was the
right man for the job . Time will tell and I think
were gonna find out early on that he has done just that
got the ship cleaned and headed in the right direction

In comment 14452644 M.S. said:

Quote:

...I was never enamored with OBJs prima donna antics; and although Landon Collins gave it his all, I was never impressed with this guy's ability to play in space with the ball in the air. But there is no fucking way that the New York Giants have sucked for the last several years because of these two guys. We sucked first and foremost because: (1) We had Jerry Reese's idiotic drafts; (2) We had the worst offensive line in the NFL; (3) We had so many fucking injuries. But the miserable, shit ass team we've been rooting for was NOT created by OBJ and Landon Collins.

You are correct that the shitty teams were not because of OBJ and collins. But in order to rebuild the team due to the shitty drafts, they had to unload expensive contracts and not sign players to expensive long term contracts.

OBJ and Collins aren't the faults of Reese's drafts, they are the victims of it. They are both great players, but you cannot build a team around them with the shitty drafts that Reese had.

In the pass happy NFL where the D is handcuffed by the flag football type rules

The QB sets the tone. Eli is a likeable, but passive individual

If anyone should have been kicking things it should have been him

Brady gets right in his Olines face and screams at them ...we need some of that.

I hope it's not another version of 'let's draft captains' theory.

And

"You can't look at the roster today and point to a single guy..."

except for Barkley who is elite.

I hope that changes, or that they can take 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts' to Super Bowl victory heights. Would totally love that. :)

In comment 14452644 M.S. said:

Quote:

...I was never enamored with OBJs prima donna antics; and although Landon Collins gave it his all, I was never impressed with this guy's ability to play in space with the ball in the air. But there is no fucking way that the New York Giants have sucked for the last several years because of these two guys. We sucked first and foremost because: (1) We had Jerry Reese's idiotic drafts; (2) We had the worst offensive line in the NFL; (3) We had so many fucking injuries. But the miserable, shit ass team we've been rooting for was NOT created by OBJ and Landon Collins.

That's a strong and passionate rebuke of an opinion that no one gave...no?

This is especially true in professional sports where there is not that big a discrepancy in talent

How many game during the past several years could have been won with a 4 min offense or 1 more stop by the defense. This team often did exactly what was needed to lose. It began in the opening game at Dallas, Coughlin s last season

Most of the inability to perform in crunch time could be laid at the foot of the boys up front on defense and offense. But a losing culture is also an attitude and character issue.

Whether OBJ and Collins we’re contributors to a bad culture we don’t really know, we weren’t there, but they weren’t part of the solution either.

The vibes surrounding this team seem different now. It feels more like Giants football. I expect to see this team begin to grow into a contender again, maybe even this season.

In comment 14453154 joeinpa said:

Quote:

This is especially true in professional sports where there is not that big a discrepancy in talent How many game during the past several years could have been won with a 4 min offense or 1 more stop by the defense. This team often did exactly what was needed to lose. It began in the opening game at Dallas, Coughlin s last season Most of the inability to perform in crunch time could be laid at the foot of the boys up front on defense and offense. But a losing culture is also an attitude and character issue. Whether OBJ and Collins we’re contributors to a bad culture we don’t really know, we weren’t there, but they weren’t part of the solution either. The vibes surrounding this team seem different now. It feels more like Giants football. I expect to see this team begin to grow into a contender again, maybe even this season.

+1

is an excellent summation:

Quote:

You are correct that the shitty teams were not because of OBJ and collins. But in order to rebuild the team due to the shitty drafts, they had to unload expensive contracts and not sign players to expensive long term contracts. OBJ and Collins aren't the faults of Reese's drafts, they are the victims of it. They are both great players, but you cannot build a team around them with the shitty drafts that Reese had.

On great teams, OBJ and Collins can lead an impact games. On bad teams, they not only become part of the problem, but because of their status and contracts, they become easy pieces to use to get assets to build a winning team.

OBJ is a great player. I think Collins is damaged goods going forward, but no matter, the point above is correct - they were victims of poor roster building from Reese. Most of the roster was, which is why we've seen it overhauled so dramatically.

It isn't just a change in culture - it is a change from a roster littered with holes and only a few top talented players to one that is more cohesive with a rising talent level.

except for QB. I still contend the biggest issues that have faced the team the last 4-5 years are poor coaching, declining QB play, and injuries. In the Summer of 2017, no one was unhappy with the talent level. I thought that Eli had 3-4 more good years left at that time.

Hopefully Jones is going to pan out, but I have less confidence in Shurmer after one season, I hope he can improve.

Until the coaching and QB play improves, there will be no SB on the horizon.

In comment 14453140 GiantsBlowout said:

Quote:

In the pass happy NFL where the D is handcuffed by the flag football type rules The QB sets the tone. Eli is a likeable, but passive individual If anyone should have been kicking things it should have been him Brady gets right in his Olines face and screams at them ...we need some of that.

So we are back to the Fiery requirement. Some of you have no idea what leadership is. Get lost, Dupe.

Wasn’t there a lot of talk about culture around 2014, when the Giants drafted lots of team captains? It’s hard to sustain a winning culture on a bad team. We’ll see how it works out this time.

would fight a kicking net or air dirty laundry to the media?

Its easy to have good character in April and May

In comment 14453211 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

Wasn’t there a lot of talk about culture around 2014, when the Giants drafted lots of team captains? It’s hard to sustain a winning culture on a bad team. We’ll see how it works out this time.

fun stroll down memory lane, for more fun look up who the other picks were in 2014
-------------------------------
So when the 7-9 season ended a few months ago, one of the things co-owner John Mara pointed to was the team taking too many risks in the middle rounds. Not necessarily risks in terms of whether a player's skills would translate to the field, but to whether their character would allow them to thrive.

Have the Giants followed that mandate by picking Odell Beckham Jr., Weston Richburg and Jay Bromley?

"Yes, these guys are high character, team captains, hard workers, smart, competitive guys with no issues whatsoever," vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. "These are the things we look for all the time. It does not always happen. Certain things you take a little more calculated risks on at certain times. This just happened to fall right for us where we felt these guys were at the very highest in regards to character."

So much so that Ross didn't tout Bromley's ability to sack quarterbacks or shed blocks or chase down running backs as his greatest strength but pointed to a so-called intangible.

"It's great when the best asset for a player is determination and desire," Ross said, "and that is Jay Bromley."
Giants drafting captains of character - ( New Window )

In comment 14453096 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

He's a reactionary who couldn't see that this team was in turmoil and now he's a hero for figuring out the obvious? I like you DK, but this guy is a schmuck with no ability for critical thinking.

You sir, are the man.

In comment 14453149 Brown_Hornet said:

Quote:

In comment 14452644 M.S. said: Quote: ...I was never enamored with OBJs prima donna antics; and although Landon Collins gave it his all, I was never impressed with this guy's ability to play in space with the ball in the air. But there is no fucking way that the New York Giants have sucked for the last several years because of these two guys. We sucked first and foremost because: (1) We had Jerry Reese's idiotic drafts; (2) We had the worst offensive line in the NFL; (3) We had so many fucking injuries. But the miserable, shit ass team we've been rooting for was NOT created by OBJ and Landon Collins. That's a strong and passionate rebuke of an opinion that no one gave...no?

Brown_Hornet -- true, but I felt it needed to be said because both OBJ and Collins have been (fairly or not) characterized as part of the locker room problem, which in turn is supposed to contribute to bad football. In any event, I agree with those who said they probably needed to go in order to replenish the roster with more manageable salaries (in so many words).

In comment 14453191 RollBlue said:

Quote:

except for QB. I still contend the biggest issues that have faced the team the last 4-5 years are poor coaching, declining QB play, and injuries. In the Summer of 2017, no one was unhappy with the talent level. I thought that Eli had 3-4 more good years left at that time. Hopefully Jones is going to pan out, but I have less confidence in Shurmer after one season, I hope he can improve. Until the coaching and QB play improves, there will be no SB on the horizon.

Not really true. The scholarship for QB has been canceled. It's just on a one year lag.

I don't know if Collins nd OBJ were bad for the locker room, only the coaches and players know that. One thing I saw in OBJ was that he never accepted responsibility for his short comings. All the talent in the world but there were a few games where he cost us a chance to win and never owned up to it. Blame was sent in other directions. Great players and winners accept the blame, take the blame as being unacceptable but he does not. A few games that come to mind are when he blocked a player while they were punting and in turn touching the ball, dropped sure TDs and the Norman game. As a great player you want the ball in your hands when it counts, you wont always win but take the blame when you should. "If I would have caught that ball we would have won" is what I want to hear not "We came up short, I tried to do too much"

As for Collins I don't know much other than his comments now. I thought he always played hard for us. He was a solid player but not as good as his reputation. Maybe he was a bad influence in the locker room


Maybe these guys were players that liked to win but "Didn't hate to lose"

In comment 14453236 Harvest Blend said:

Quote:

In comment 14453096 Joey in VA said: Quote: He's a reactionary who couldn't see that this team was in turmoil and now he's a hero for figuring out the obvious? I like you DK, but this guy is a schmuck with no ability for critical thinking. You sir, are the man.

Angry Joey is the Best Joey.

In comment 14453191 RollBlue said:

Quote:

except for QB. I still contend the biggest issues that have faced the team the last 4-5 years are poor coaching, declining QB play, and injuries. In the Summer of 2017, no one was unhappy with the talent level. I thought that Eli had 3-4 more good years left at that time. Hopefully Jones is going to pan out, but I have less confidence in Shurmer after one season, I hope he can improve. Until the coaching and QB play improves, there will be no SB on the horizon.

There's an exception to every rule, and Eli was always going to be an exception to that one, as most veteran QB's with a storied history and no loss of time due to injury would be.

Crystal Ball Joey and his fiancé Claire Voyant is the best Joey.

Reporting in.

OBJ was definitely a locker room concern, but didn't think Collins was, but definitely raises concerns with his constant jibber jabber in Washington.

In comment 14453246 M.S. said:

Quote:

In comment 14453149 Brown_Hornet said: Quote: In comment 14452644 M.S. said: Quote: ...I was never enamored with OBJs prima donna antics; and although Landon Collins gave it his all, I was never impressed with this guy's ability to play in space with the ball in the air. But there is no fucking way that the New York Giants have sucked for the last several years because of these two guys. We sucked first and foremost because: (1) We had Jerry Reese's idiotic drafts; (2) We had the worst offensive line in the NFL; (3) We had so many fucking injuries. But the miserable, shit ass team we've been rooting for was NOT created by OBJ and Landon Collins. That's a strong and passionate rebuke of an opinion that no one gave...no? Brown_Hornet -- true, but I felt it needed to be said because both OBJ and Collins have been (fairly or not) characterized as part of the locker room problem, which in turn is supposed to contribute to bad football. In any event, I agree with those who said they probably needed to go in order to replenish the roster with more manageable salaries (in so many words).

+1

In comment 14453410 Coach Red Beaulieu said:

Quote:

Reporting in. OBJ was definitely a locker room concern, but didn't think Collins was, but definitely raises concerns with his constant jibber jabber in Washington.

It seems like you've been posting less with this handle now that you have all these new ones.

In comment 14453140 GiantsBlowout said:

Quote:

In the pass happy NFL where the D is handcuffed by the flag football type rules The QB sets the tone. Eli is a likeable, but passive individual If anyone should have been kicking things it should have been him Brady gets right in his Olines face and screams at them ...we need some of that.

your rooting for the wrong team.. That is not what they are building here. BTW Eli beat Brady because he was cool as a fucking ninja

In comment 14453096 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

He's a reactionary who couldn't see that this team was in turmoil and now he's a hero for figuring out the obvious? I like you DK, but this guy is a schmuck with no ability for critical thinking.

I don’t usually care about follow-up postings of other comments but in this case, what the heck are you talking about?

In comment 14454541 Ivan15 said:

Quote:

In comment 14453096 Joey in VA said: Quote: He's a reactionary who couldn't see that this team was in turmoil and now he's a hero for figuring out the obvious? I like you DK, but this guy is a schmuck with no ability for critical thinking. I don’t usually care about follow-up postings of other comments but in this case, what the heck are you talking about?

I believe he's talking about Chuck Knoxx. I don't know anything about Knoxx (I don't do social media), I've never watched any of his videos, but it sounds like Joey isn't buying his mea culpa.