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NFT: NYY- CC Sabathia to IL

Matt in SGS : 5/23/2019 9:11 am
For his knee. Just sign Keuchel at this point
They're not giving up a draft pick...  
Dunedin81 : 5/23/2019 9:15 am : link
a week before the draft.
RE: They're not giving up a draft pick...  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14453243 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
a week before the draft.
+1. However, even if they sign him then, it will most likely be a few weeks before he is game ready.
They don't need Keuchel  
UConn4523 : 5/23/2019 9:18 am : link
he will be expensive and cost a pick. They will weather the storm until after the draft.
I'll never understand fans calling for team X  
rich in DC : 5/23/2019 9:18 am : link
to sign player Y just because they know the name of the player.

Keuchel hasn't even been a decent SP in 3 years. He's declining fast- and the Yanks have already demonstrated that they have the depth to absorb short term injuries.

Relax and ignore the "names." Keuchel's market is mostly media driven these days- by a certain sports reporter who is well-known as a shill for Keuchel's agent.
RE: They don't need Keuchel  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14453249 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he will be expensive and cost a pick. They will weather the storm until after the draft.
They can sign Keuchel after next week's draft and it will not cost them any draft picks.
Hopefully  
BIG FRED 1973 : 5/23/2019 9:23 am : link
Chance Adams gets some starts .Is Paxton close at all ?
Can we get Caleb Smith  
CromartiesKid21 : 5/23/2019 9:23 am : link
back?
.  
arcarsenal : 5/23/2019 9:24 am : link
Yeah, I actually think they should consider Keuchel.

Severino coming back at full strength is far from a given - and we still don't have a real timetable on him.

CC's knee might just be an issue for most of the year. Hopefully the cortisone and medicine they're going to get in there will get some of the pain and swelling out - but he's probably going to have to pitch in pain a lot of the year. I don't think that's going to stop bugging him.

Pax should be close - but he's a risk, too. We know he has an injury history and he's already landed on the IL before 2 months in.

Tanaka just needed some extra time after the ball he took off the lower leg - he's good for now, but even he just got banged up.

Then, you have Loaisiga who can't seem to stay healthy.

I'm not sure we can rely on German to shoulder a large inning load this year. They might want to manage him and keep his innings down a little. I don't think he's ever exceeded 125 innings at any level.

Montgo is coming off TJS - we'll see him this year, but there's no telling what to expect. Odds are he won't be totally right until 2020.

That leaves you with JA Happ...

I'd hate to see this year get derailed because our starting pitching just can't hold up. It has actually been fantastic despite all of the bumps and bruises so far, but when you look forward and project outward, you certainly have to be a little concerned about the 5 guys the Yankees are going to send out there each turn.

I think Cashman will almost certainly make a move for a starter - whether that's looking into Keuchel or going the trade route.

I will say that I'd stay away from Bumgarner. I don't think the value will be there relative to the purported cost.
There has been so many damn injuries on this team  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 9:24 am : link
this year, its hard to tell who is coming and who is going. Hopefully Paxton returns this week, and we see Sevi and possibly Gumby sometime soon after the all-star break.
RE: Hopefully  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14453261 BIG FRED 1973 said:
Quote:
Chance Adams gets some starts .Is Paxton close at all ?
Pax could be back as early as next week.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/23/2019 9:27 am : link
And as far as the pick goes - all they need to do is wait until after it. He doesn't cost anything at that point.

I don't think he's great, but I think it's fair to consider that we may get a little uncomfortably thin in the rotation down the road this year. It could happen pretty easily.

Post-draft when the pick attachment is gone, I don't think Keuchel is a terrible consideration if he'd be willing to take a short-term deal.

I do think we're going to add a starter one way or another.
Send Andujar, Maybin, Estrada  
DC Gmen Fan : 5/23/2019 9:37 am : link
and Stanton to the Nats for Scherzer....
RE: Send Andujar, Maybin, Estrada  
rich in DC : 5/23/2019 9:44 am : link
In comment 14453291 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
and Stanton to the Nats for Scherzer....


Nats have been overwhelmed by injuries already this year- they aren't taking back 2 more injured players for their best SP.
isn't Paxton  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 5/23/2019 9:44 am : link
due back?
According to NJ.com  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 9:46 am : link
The Yanks have been scouting Bumgarner, but they also noted that Bumgarners contact list the Yank's as one of the teams he can't be traded to.
RE: RE: They don't need Keuchel  
UConn4523 : 5/23/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14453252 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14453249 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


he will be expensive and cost a pick. They will weather the storm until after the draft.

They can sign Keuchel after next week's draft and it will not cost them any draft picks.


I know, thats why I said they will weather the storm until after the draft. I still dont think hes the answer even if picks arent in play. Hes an unknown at this point with a high price tag.
RE: According to NJ.com  
UConn4523 : 5/23/2019 9:48 am : link
In comment 14453312 Beer Man said:
Quote:
The Yanks have been scouting Bumgarner, but they also noted that Bumgarners contact list the Yank's as one of the teams he can't be traded to.


Thats only because hes going to block any trade that doesnt result in new money. Hes blocking trades to contenders purposely to get a new deal.
Just a thought while thinking about deals  
rich in DC : 5/23/2019 9:49 am : link
Josh Bell is really coming into his own in Pittsburgh- but is a Boras client who is entering his arbitration years. They probably aren't going to trade him during the season, but I wonder if the Yanks could put together a package for him in the off-season?

Maybe something centered around Frazier, Andujar, Deivi Garcia and some high upside guys?

Bell is a switch hitter with a good batting eye and good power. He isn't great defensively at 1B- but is likely better than Voit defensively.
Keuchel  
arniefez : 5/23/2019 9:50 am : link
Threw 200 innings last year with a 110 ERA+, won the gold glove and will only cost money. Who needs that on a team with a bunch of question mark starters that's trying to win a WS and not burn out their bullpen.
Just bring up one of  
section125 : 5/23/2019 9:50 am : link
the AAA or AA pitchers..or two of them and pitch a rookie game!
Adams and Hale!
RE: RE: According to NJ.com  
rich in DC : 5/23/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14453317 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14453312 Beer Man said:


Quote:


The Yanks have been scouting Bumgarner, but they also noted that Bumgarners contact list the Yank's as one of the teams he can't be traded to.



Thats only because hes going to block any trade that doesnt result in new money. Hes blocking trades to contenders purposely to get a new deal.


That's right- its a negotiating tactic for the player- a way to effectively force the team who wants to trade for him to give him something to go there.

With that said, that might undermine the Yanks interest. Remember that they already have Tanaka, Paxton, Severino, Happ, Montgomery and German under contract in 2020- and whatever comes out of the minors.

While Bumgarner could help in 2019, giving him an extension for 2020 probably creates more problems than it is worth- especially since in that scenario, Bumgarner, Tanaka and Happ would all hit FA at the same time- putting the Yanks right back into the problem area that forced them to give Happ that bad contract in the first place.
RE: Keuchel  
rich in DC : 5/23/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14453322 arniefez said:
Quote:
Threw 200 innings last year with a 110 ERA+, won the gold glove and will only cost money. Who needs that on a team with a bunch of question mark starters that's trying to win a WS and not burn out their bullpen.


Yeah, its tough when the Yanks are last in the league...oh, wait...

if its only money then I don't care  
UConn4523 : 5/23/2019 9:55 am : link
I just think something is up with him, plenty of people talking about his decreased effectiveness. If he's going to be posting an ERA over 4.0 why even bother? That's a very expensive innings eater.
I'd still be interested in seeing what the Jays want for Stroman  
Greg from LI : 5/23/2019 10:14 am : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/23/2019 10:15 am : link
Keuchel was really only crappy in 2016.

He was pretty good even last year. The FIP/ERA are almost identical (3.69/3.74) - he was a horse. Threw over 200 innings and faced more batters than any other SP in baseball.

I think teams just really value their picks now more than ever and are just wary of spending big bucks in the open market - it was a perfect storm for Keuchel to remain unsigned like this, but I think it's reasonable to think he'd still be a solid mid/back end starter.

Bumgarner will be an option - but NYY being on his NTL means he's going to want more assurances to come here... i.e.. more money and maybe even years.

If they really want to swing for the fences, they could call Washington on Scherzer. Don't let his ERA mislead you - he has the lowest FIP in baseball right now and is still an elite SP.

There are varying degrees of options here, but I think we've got to look at adding someone.
Keuchel's peripherals are trending downward...  
Dunedin81 : 5/23/2019 10:17 am : link
(GB rate, hits, Ks) and he has not been good against the rest of the AL East. Maybe you luck into a Verlander, but you could just as easily end up with another JA Happ, an older pitcher on the downside of his career.
RE: RE: RE: According to NJ.com  
Beer Man : 5/23/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14453325 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14453317 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 14453312 Beer Man said:


Quote:


The Yanks have been scouting Bumgarner, but they also noted that Bumgarners contact list the Yank's as one of the teams he can't be traded to.



Thats only because hes going to block any trade that doesnt result in new money. Hes blocking trades to contenders purposely to get a new deal.



That's right- its a negotiating tactic for the player- a way to effectively force the team who wants to trade for him to give him something to go there.

With that said, that might undermine the Yanks interest. Remember that they already have Tanaka, Paxton, Severino, Happ, Montgomery and German under contract in 2020- and whatever comes out of the minors.

While Bumgarner could help in 2019, giving him an extension for 2020 probably creates more problems than it is worth- especially since in that scenario, Bumgarner, Tanaka and Happ would all hit FA at the same time- putting the Yanks right back into the problem area that forced them to give Happ that bad contract in the first place.
I would tale Happ out of the equation, he is on his last Yankees contract. Hopefully, one of the promising prospects is ready by then.
Scherzer would be great  
Greg from LI : 5/23/2019 10:17 am : link
But Washington will demand a king's ransom for him. I don't think the Yankees have the chips for that.
RE: .  
Del Shofner : 5/23/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14453352 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
There are varying degrees of options here, but I think we've got to look at adding someone.


I think the Yanks are. I got lightly flamed yesterday for posting the Post's article on the Giants and Pirates scouting Frazier, but I think the Yanks are in the market and Frazier is probably a chip. Our outfield is in better shape than our starting pitching. Although Stanton's setback certainly isn't helping.
Not sure the Yanks want  
section125 : 5/23/2019 10:32 am : link
to get older in the pitching staff. I've always like Stroman. I agree with Greg. Not a fan of Keuchel or Bumgarner, although Keuchel kind of meets the Yanks no FB approach.
Given that there are question marks about durability  
Essex : 5/23/2019 10:37 am : link
for three of our starters, signing Keuchal has nothing to do with name recognition and everything to do with having a MLB quality starter as insurance. And, yeah, we are in first place, but when the season comes down to playing for a trophy we won't be playin the Orioles every night. Signing Keuchal isn't even an option anymore that can solely be judged on whether he is worth the money, its a necessity like when you pay for an insurance policy. You want to wreck the season?
RE: Given that there are question marks about durability  
Carson53 : 5/23/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14453396 Essex said:
Quote:
for three of our starters, signing Keuchal has nothing to do with name recognition and everything to do with having a MLB quality starter as insurance. And, yeah, we are in first place, but when the season comes down to playing for a trophy we won't be playin the Orioles every night. Signing Keuchal isn't even an option anymore that can solely be judged on whether he is worth the money, its a necessity like when you pay for an insurance policy. You want to wreck the season?
.

I don't think they will look into Keuchel just because
they would have done it already. If they did, they will
wait until after the amateur draft about 10 days down the
road. He's not a necessity with Severino in July, Monty in August and CC will be back soon. CC does this every year with a degenerative knee, just a bit earlier this year. It usually flares up around August, he will be getting a knee replacement when he is done!
Keuchel's wikipedia page reads like it was written by his agent...  
Milton : 5/23/2019 10:57 am : link
It had this to say about 2017 and 2018...
Quote:
Keuchel began the 2017 season by winning his fourth career AL Pitcher of the Month Award in April, after posting a 50 WL and 1.21 ERA over six starts. He allowed six runs over ​44 2⁄3 IP. He became the first Astros pitcher to win four; J. R. Richard was the other Astros pitcher who had won three. Keuchel joined Bartolo Coln, Flix Hernndez, Justin Verlander as active pitchers who had won at least four. He proceeded to start the season with a 70 record and a 1.84 ERA; however, on May 20, 2017, he was placed on the 10-day disabled list due to a pinched nerve in his neck.

On June 8, 2017, Keuchel was again placed on the disabled list due to continuing neck woes. He was selected to play in the All-Star Game, held at Marlins Park in Miami. It was his second career selection.

Keuchel finished 2017 making 23 starts with a 145 record, and a 2.90 ERA. The Astros won the American League West division with a 10161 record, and also won the 2017 World Series.

In 2018, Keuchel compiled a 1211 record with a 3.74 ERA in a career-high 34 starts. He had the highest ground ball percentage among major league pitchers (53.7%), and the lowest fly ball percentage (24.4%). He also won his fourth Gold Glove.
RE: Not sure the Yanks want  
Carson53 : 5/23/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14453383 section125 said:
Quote:
to get older in the pitching staff. I've always like Stroman. I agree with Greg. Not a fan of Keuchel or Bumgarner, although Keuchel kind of meets the Yanks no FB approach.
.

That kid is too emotional, too hyper, not sure that would play well here. I also think fans get more into 'he is a local guy too'...then organizations do.
We saw 'Madbum' when the Yanks went out to the west coast, not the same pitcher, lot of innings, lot of late Octobers for him. His fastball velocity is down, his pitches not as crisp either. He's just not the same.
Keuchel is 31...  
Dunedin81 : 5/23/2019 10:58 am : link
And his peak velocity was what Maddux was throwing in his late 30's. He's hit 200 IP just three times and had some recent injury concerns. He's not the sure thing people want to think that he is.
RE: Keuchel is 31...  
Carson53 : 5/23/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14453430 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
And his peak velocity was what Maddux was throwing in his late 30's. He's hit 200 IP just three times and had some recent injury concerns. He's not the sure thing people want to think that he is.


I use to call Maddux a surgeon, with a scalpel, in his prime, LOL. I agree on Keuchel.
What nobody is mentioning...  
GruningsOnTheHill : 5/23/2019 11:21 am : link
Keuchel has said recently that he is willing to take a 1-year deal at this juncture, and then give free agency another try again next offseason.

What's the downside?
RE: What nobody is mentioning...  
Kyle in NY : 5/23/2019 11:26 am : link
In comment 14453455 GruningsOnTheHill said:
Quote:
Keuchel has said recently that he is willing to take a 1-year deal at this juncture, and then give free agency another try again next offseason.

What's the downside?


I was thinking this too. Kuehcel doesn't have to be a long term commitment. Think much of it depends on how Severino is progressing. CC was always going to have a few DL stints throughout the season.
The downside...  
Dunedin81 : 5/23/2019 11:28 am : link
is that you then have four starting pitchers age 30 or older in your rotation, that if he struggles you can't send him down or DFA him because he'll make too much $, and that's assuming he bites on a one-year deal.
I'd rather,...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/23/2019 11:29 am : link
have them call up and arm from AAA, ride it out until after the draft, and then look at the options.

They also will have to know how likely it is for Sevy to actually return this year.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/23/2019 11:35 am : link
Yeah, I'm not proposing giving Keuchel 5 years here - I'm suggesting that perhaps we'd be able to sign him for just the remainder of this year or maybe that + one more year or some sort of option.

Even if he's trending in the wrong direction, if he gave us a replica of his 2018 - would that be a bad thing? He'd be a find mid-rotation guy with those numbers in the AL.

My thinking on Keuchel is that the appeal is actually the lack of a necessary long-term commit.

Just for shits and giggles, DeRosa proposed a hypothetical NYY/WSH deal for Scherzer...

Andujar, Frazier, Bird, Loaisiga for Scherzer.

3 of those players are injured right now, so you'd need some sort of improved outlook on Bird and some sort of assurance that Loaisiga's current injury isn't going to become a long-term issue, but I think if that package lands you Max Scherzer and you're the Yankees, you've probably got to do that.

I'm not sure that's even enough, honestly. But I think I'd do it.

I love Andujar, but even if he were returning later this year - there wouldn't even be a place to play him. Once Gregorius is back, you're looking at he, Torres and LeMahieu and then you've still got Urshela and Estrada in the fold.

I also feel that Frazier is potentially expendable in a deal. Not because I don't like him or have anything against him - quite the opposite, actually. But, we do have Florial making his way back (he's starting extended spring now), Stanton is on his way back, Judge is hopefully going to be a fixture in RF for the next decade, and we just extended Hicks - so he's going to be here long-term.

But, I think the Yanks would be wise to be aggressive and proactive as far as the starting pitching goes here.

Our best pitcher right now is German - and I'm not sure how many innings the Yanks are going to be comfortable with him throwing. Can he handle a 175+ inning workload when he's never eclipsed 125? He's not a big guy. And while size doesn't always = durability - I do wonder if he'll hold up if asked to throw 175-200 innings.

I'd just hate to see this year get derailed because the starting pitching can't hold up through the summer.
I think it comes down to who's desperate  
UConn4523 : 5/23/2019 11:40 am : link
he's going to want a big deal and I can see most teams not being comfortable paying an even pro-rated $18m-$20m (2019) for a pitcher they think is in decline. Like I said earlier if a scout/GM thinks he's on the decline, that's simply a bad deal to make.

Cashman is being very precise with the moves he makes and doesn't make - hard to question whatever he does in this case.
I'd do that deal in a heartbeat  
Greg from LI : 5/23/2019 11:52 am : link
But I'd be shocked if Washington would. Seems very light to me. One pitcher who, though talented, can't stay healthy. A guy who's always injured and hasn't hit since 2015. A kid who can hit but can't play D to save his life (which lowers his value to an NL team). And one more guy who's talented but missed most of a season with a concussion, hasn't really established himself, and is pretty weak with the glove himself.
I should have clarified the timing  
Matt in SGS : 5/23/2019 12:13 pm : link
sign Kuechel after the draft. I don't want to get into September and see all the starters fall apart. If he's willing to take a 1 year deal just to make good and hit free agency again, I'd rather the Yankees take that chance, and get him into the rotation to be ready for the dog days.
I'd like them to make a call regarding Bumgarner  
BH28 : 5/23/2019 12:52 pm : link
Even if he turns out to be a rental
RE: I'll never understand fans calling for team X  
Nine-Tails : 5/23/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14453250 rich in DC said:
Quote:
to sign player Y just because they know the name of the player.

Keuchel hasn't even been a decent SP in 3 years. He's declining fast- and the Yanks have already demonstrated that they have the depth to absorb short term injuries.

Relax and ignore the "names." Keuchel's market is mostly media driven these days- by a certain sports reporter who is well-known as a shill for Keuchel's agent.


I'm not a big fan of Keuchel, but to say he's not a decent pitcher, do you even watch baseball?
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