So lost in all the who we traded, didn't re-sign and let leave in the off-season is what we played with in Week 17 at home vs. The Playoff bound Cowboys. We lost 36-35 without well missed starters Odell Beckham and Landon Collins.
Without getting too into the game or the roster, think of this simple exercise. In a game Dallas had to win while we played out the string w/o two guys who are sorely missed here, we fell short by ONE POINT.
Now, to that Team add, guys on the left for the guys on the right
DT Dexter Lawrence - Josh Mauro
CB DeAndre Baker - BW Webb
CB Sam Beal - Tony Lippet
S Antoine Bethea - Curtis Riley
S Jabrill Peppers - Michael Thomas
CB Curtis Love - S S. Chandler
LB Connor Barwin - LB Oshane Ximines
LB Olivier Vernon - LB Markus Golden
WR Golden Tate - WR Bennie Fowler
RT Mike Remmers - RT Chad Wheeler
RG Kevin Zeitler - RG Jamon Brown
With the exception of Vernon/Golden and the unknown in Sam Beal/Tony Lippet, it's most likely that all of the 2019 counterparts should meet or exceed the 2018 versions of that player. Ximines is a question mark, but a younger, faster option than Barwin was who was basically out of gas. Look left and then right, those additions and changes put us over the top vs. the Cowboys in that game and likely the Colts and Eagles in previous weeks. So bottom line for me, we are WAY better than we were in week 17 and that's something to get excited about.
As opposed to Alex Smith at best.
Quote:
and why does the values change sides after a certain point?
My bad it's Julian as Klaatu pointed out and I don't understand the other question.
I think he means that you have Vernon and Barwin on the left side - after Love
We need to beat Dallas in their house on opening day. Control the ball. Hit that one deep play that nobody expected. Use our special teams for field position. A nice, hard fought, tough road win.
Go Giants.
I think, provided those guys stay healthy, we are going to be vastly improved on defense
I don't remember a time when there was this vast a level of promise inserted into the Giants in year
It was a meaningless game for Dallas. They rested Zeke. They still beat us in our own building.
Quote:
Serious question. It's been nearly a half year so my memory is a bit foggy.
It was a meaningless game for Dallas. They rested Zeke. They still beat us in our own building.
They may have rested Zeke, and maybe that means it was meaningless but their starting quarterback threw the ball 44 times for nearly 400 yards and 4 touchdowns and miscues, and poor play in the Giants secondary played a large part in that.
The number of players who will be new to the system or new to each other is pretty steep.
I think the arrow is pointing up, but the circumstances don't align with a quick turnaround. I still think this will be a sloppy at times, and tough year for the defense.
That would be pretty exciting if we could but I think it would take a different guy under center to make it happen...
Barkley is the young super stud on O who we needed to liquidate OBJ. And those resources went back into the D. Lawrence Peppers and X man in place of Beckham. Can't deny what the attempt is by DG...
Quote:
(And it's Julian Love, not Curtis)
No Carter started and I assume he will, so he stays put. Barwin was a sub. And Julian of course, my bad sir.
Great post. A ton of youth there but is talented youth. How quickly they acclimate is going to be huge. Most should be a sizeable upgrade when they get their feet under them.
Made easier by Barkley's presence. They don't do that trade without Barkley imo.
Except, of course, when he's benched himself because of a hangnail.
All his talent is worth exactly ZERO when he doesn't play.
The team is improved by the OBJ and OV deals.
Here's a thought: avoid players so hot they go by initials only
Stay strong, Joey.
We got alot back for him. I like Zeitler, Peppers and the rookie DT Lawrence (from Cleveland's Rd1 pick we rec'd). And, I believe we got Baker using one of the picks from Cleveland as well to move up (not sure).
I think we are positioned to be a really good team in 2020 as we will have a ton of cap room to utilize to fill out the roster. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Eli next year as well if he has a good 2019 season. If you think you can win, you think about keeping him for a run. We'll see.
In comment 14454394 Sonic Youth said:
2) OBJ's injury history - missed 16 games in his last 2 seasons.
3) While he played hard and was liked in the locker room, there were always personality issues with him.
All in all, the Giants did well to move him.
Having Zeitler on the field will mean more than OBJ. He will open holes for Barkley and allow the offense to control the clock. This will keep the defense off the field and keep the opponent from scoring. Zeitler will also give Eli more time to throw and allow him to make those intermediate passes to the WRs and TEs to keep the chains moving. No, they may not have as many explosive plays where a WR takes a ten yard pass and goes the distance, but they will be more efficient on offense.
There was no impact whether they won or lost.
A more apt comparison would be start of the season to start of the season:
So add Harrison, Collins, Apple, and Jenkins in place of some of the stiffs that played defense in the last game of the season and add Beckham to the offense in place of Benny Fowler and the picture is a little more cloudy. There are definite improvements in replacing Riley and Omameh with Bethea and Zeitler but several significant subtractions and several question marks.
it really goes without saying that injuries change the picture -- the point is if you get to that game with the above said players as opposed to last years crew at that point -- it's a different game
A) you have the power run game to set the table with proven guards on both sides of the inner line and better than average Tackles on the outside.
B) be you have improvements everywhere in key spots on Defense
C) you have the addition of Golden Tate a savvy vet
There are also frankly a number of players with question marks; Bethea is so old at some point it will catch him, Jenkins was dreadful last year, Beal is coming off two procedures on the same shoulder, Golden is 3 years and significant injury removed from his big year.
As flawed as the Reese group Gettleman moved, they were talented. Vernon was a major contributor in the pass rush, Collins a major factor in run support.
The other factor that worries is me is coverage at the LB spot. Collins got a lot of flack for breakdowns, but he strongly alluded to missed assignments by the LBers. Peppers is a better cover safety, but if the issue is blown coverage he's not going fair much better.
Dallas rested 7 starters, even though they still had a lot of offensive pieces in(minus Zeke and the TE). And we still lost. By giving up a TD with 1:30 left and the game-losing 2-point conversion and then not being able to score ourselves at the end.
The offense looked decent, but in a game where Dallas had nothing to gain, they ended up winning and walking off the field celebrating. I was more embarrassed than I was proud.
Here's a thought: avoid players so hot they go by initials only
Like LT?
I wonder how much he would have benefited from being a millenial. The sports world might have forced him to be smarter about his body. The cocaine problems were rampant in his day, today, not so much, not because the athletes aren't exposed and at risk, but because they have so many good supports built in place now.
Maybe not, but one thing I'll say, if LT were available at our draft position next year I know whose name I'd want on the card, initials be damned.
Quote:
Here's a thought: avoid players so hot they go by initials only
Like LT?
I wonder how much he would have benefited from being a millenial. The sports world might have forced him to be smarter about his body. The cocaine problems were rampant in his day, today, not so much, not because the athletes aren't exposed and at risk, but because they have so many good supports built in place now.
Maybe not, but one thing I'll say, if LT were available at our draft position next year I know whose name I'd want on the card, initials be damned.
These athletes are still doing drugs, but there are cameras everywhere and the risks to your athletic performance/injury risk are much more well known now. Fuck I wouldn't be surprised if LT looked at blow like a performance enhancer, which for short term effects it can be.
hahahahaha
How can you even have a take like this before Beckham steps on the field as a Brown? What if he's limited to 6 games a year? what if he ends up feuding with Mayfield?
Beckham is an excellent WR. But let's not make it sound like he just left and we're holding a pretzel and a hot dog.
Also, remember the Summer of 2017 when many, Eric included, were raving about how talented the team was coming off 11-5?
I do agree there is reason for optimism, but I'm not going to get fooled again - I'll wait for a 2-2, or 3-1 start to get my hopes up. Two big question marks are Coaching and QB play, those are currently big unknowns and usually mean the difference between winning close games or not. Plus, I think most are underestimating the talent lost in OBJ. May work out, but I think the team is not better as a result in the next 2-3 years.
As always, we'll see.
He's a very good, very flawed player. All of the on-the-field antics didn't bug me as a fan. But the strong indications he sat out the final four games somewhat voluntarily can't be condoned.
I think, provided those guys stay healthy, we are going to be vastly improved on defense
I don't remember a time when there was this vast a level of promise inserted into the Giants in year
The beat written for the Giants on the Athletic (Lindsay?) said she does not see a way this club is in contention by mid season.
Quote:
the intent of your original point(s) is/are solid
I think, provided those guys stay healthy, we are going to be vastly improved on defense
I don't remember a time when there was this vast a level of promise inserted into the Giants in year
The beat written for the Giants on the Athletic (Lindsay?) said she does not see a way this club is in contention by mid season.
Neither do I.
Connley over Goodson
Connley over Goodson
Yeah, wtf?!
Quote:
Here's a thought: avoid players so hot they go by initials only
Like LT?
I wonder how much he would have benefited from being a millenial. The sports world might have forced him to be smarter about his body. The cocaine problems were rampant in his day, today, not so much, not because the athletes aren't exposed and at risk, but because they have so many good supports built in place now.
Maybe not, but one thing I'll say, if LT were available at our draft position next year I know whose name I'd want on the card, initials be damned.
Dan, I think I the Godell ruled modern era of the NFL, LT would have been suspended several times until finally bounced out of the league.
So ultimately yeah, no guys celebrity enough to go by initials.
Just won't fly nowadays.
it really goes without saying that injuries change the picture -- the point is if you get to that game with the above said players as opposed to last years crew at that point -- it's a different game
A) you have the power run game to set the table with proven guards on both sides of the inner line and better than average Tackles on the outside.
B) be you have improvements everywhere in key spots on Defense
C) you have the addition of Golden Tate a savvy vet
The cowboys toyed with us like a cat with a mouse and then put us away at the end. And they didnt just rest zeke. Tyron smith zach martin didnt play at all. Vandedesh played half the game and demarcus lwrence played 11 snaps. You people can twist the facts all you want but in reality we sucked whenever Beckham didnt play the last several years.
Quote:
wanted to make this into a real contest going into the playoffs -- and they were only able to squeak out a win
it really goes without saying that injuries change the picture -- the point is if you get to that game with the above said players as opposed to last years crew at that point -- it's a different game
A) you have the power run game to set the table with proven guards on both sides of the inner line and better than average Tackles on the outside.
B) be you have improvements everywhere in key spots on Defense
C) you have the addition of Golden Tate a savvy vet
The cowboys toyed with us like a cat with a mouse and then put us away at the end. And they didnt just rest zeke. Tyron smith zach martin didnt play at all. Vandedesh played half the game and demarcus lwrence played 11 snaps. You people can twist the facts all you want but in reality we sucked whenever Beckham didnt play the last several years.
They sucked with Beckham, too, even during the 11-5 season the offense sucked and won a few games solely thanks to the defense and Beckham helping score just enough points to get by.
I think the point of the thread is that the talent is being improved upon steadily. They might not be a good team again this year, but they better start showing promise and ascension, otherwise it's going to be another few more painful seasons upcoming. I generally lean a bit optimistic, and think they will start to be a bit more competitive on both sides of the ball this year, but I'm not expecting playoffs unless they get some lucky breaks.
In the mud and the rain, Barkley and the line need to be better -- 2.2 YPC on 14 carries, ouch. If this is a ball control, win upfront type of team, that's alarming.
Then with nothing to play for they go out and give Indy a run with the most creative play calling of the year. I loved this game, but again worth noting how bottled up the run game was.
Giants looked completely different, more organized and professional then 2017 season