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"He's doing a good job," Tate said. "If you just look at talent-wise, the guy has a super, super strong arm. He can move around a little bit. But with quarterbacks, you just never know, you never know because it's such a mental game." |
Correct, it is Super, Super arm strength.
Thats incredibly faulty logic. Hoping you don't need me to waste my time explaining why.
Then that would mean you would agree to trade Jones after the season then? No point in keeping him if he's NOT the guy right?
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But if it takes more than 1 year (at this point in Eli’s career) for a number six pick to start over him, then it was not the right pick.
Thats incredibly faulty logic. Hoping you don't need me to waste my time explaining why.
Consider the poster...
You're right. I haven't seen a QB put under a microscope like this and take so much unwarranted criticism since... Eli Manning.
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Hard to tell how much of it is sincere and how much is him just being a good teammate.
receivers talking positively about a QB....shocking
Man, does Jones suck, but on the plus side, I'll probably be outa here by the time he's ready to start.
The concern in some circles is exactly what Tate brought up. I saw a QB in Senior Bowl week that seemed to at times struggle with processing quickly what he saw on the field. It is practically my only concern of all of Jones' makeup.
However that concern is a big one. He learned under the best in Cutcliffe so if their is a ' speed of mental processing' issue it is unlikely to magically get better in the Pro game.
Again its waaaay early but you hear he is processing a little slowly right now. Is it a result of simply getting acclimated to the system? Quite possible. Or is it partially because he is not gifted in processing the field quickly either? Or a combination of both.
Paul Emery had this to say...
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As he played for David Cutcliffe at Duke, people assume he’s great in terms of football intelligence – but what I see on tape is the opposite. When his first read isn’t there, he’s hesitant and holds the ball too long. He then takes far too many sacks. His footwork and mechanics are okay, but they look a little deliberate to me. His arm is okay, but on deeper balls he can’t make the Drew Lock type throw and it’s more touched in, which will give NFL safeties time to make a play on the ball.
Sy'56 had this to say...
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However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent....Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based.
The draftniks seem to give him credit for enough arm strength, decent but not great accuracy, good athletic ability, good mechanics, top notch toughness and leadership, but most question his mental game in one way or another. We will see, it could be a confidence issue in terms of his teammates being overmatched. That won't be the case in the NFL (i.e, it won't be Duke vs Alabama).
If anything prevents Jones from becoming a top QB its going to be the concerns that Emery and Sy reflected above.
I waffle on him a lot because their is alot to like but we passed up Josh Allen for him. And you wonder if the Giants were blinded by all the other stuff he brought to the table character wise.
With each passing practice I get more excited about Jones' upside because I have seen several new reports praising his arm strength.
As for his frame, Eli was 5 lbs lighter when he was drafted. One of the benefits of Jones sitting is that he will have time to add size to his frame before he is called upon to start.
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It was mental processing speed. He appeared indecisive at times and a beat late getting the ball out of his hand. That kind of hesitancy can be the result of things other than processing speed, it could simply be a lack of trust in the receiver, or some other communication issue that has nothing to do with his processing speed. He scored 37 on the wonderlic so that's encouraging.
Paul Emery had this to say...
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As he played for David Cutcliffe at Duke, people assume he’s great in terms of football intelligence – but what I see on tape is the opposite. When his first read isn’t there, he’s hesitant and holds the ball too long. He then takes far too many sacks. His footwork and mechanics are okay, but they look a little deliberate to me. His arm is okay, but on deeper balls he can’t make the Drew Lock type throw and it’s more touched in, which will give NFL safeties time to make a play on the ball.
Sy'56 had this to say...
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However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent....Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based.
The draftniks seem to give him credit for enough arm strength, decent but not great accuracy, good athletic ability, good mechanics, top notch toughness and leadership, but most question his mental game in one way or another. We will see, it could be a confidence issue in terms of his teammates being overmatched. That won't be the case in the NFL (i.e, it won't be Duke vs Alabama).
If anything prevents Jones from becoming a top QB its going to be the concerns that Emery and Sy reflected above.
I waffle on him a lot because their is alot to like but we passed up Josh Allen for him. And you wonder if the Giants were blinded by all the other stuff he brought to the table character wise.
It’s a concern for sure ... although I wonder how much of that was due to the terrible OL “protection” and the general lack of separation his WRs could get (not to mention dropping a ton of the passes)
I just need to see him push the ball outside the hash marks with some zip. I'm not worried about his deep ball.
This is right. We should be skeptical about Jones's ability to drive the ball with zip and accuracy to the outside. That's the arm strength debate. No whether Jones can loft it downfield 50+ yards.
We will really find out if he can play fast when he's playing in actual NFL games and the bullets are flying.
We will really find out if he can play fast when he's playing in actual NFL games and the bullets are flying.
I think it’s more related to identifying “hot reads” and/or adjusting to a presnap disguised coverage, he’s smart and great under pressure so I think it will improve in time... there will be ugly moments (like Darnold lobbing a pass across the field for a pick 6 on his first attempt ugly), I just want them to occur this year so we can start the resurrection of this franchise properly next year - Jones year 2, full draft, cap room
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In comment 14454583 Milton said:
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It was mental processing speed. He appeared indecisive at times and a beat late getting the ball out of his hand. That kind of hesitancy can be the result of things other than processing speed, it could simply be a lack of trust in the receiver, or some other communication issue that has nothing to do with his processing speed. He scored 37 on the wonderlic so that's encouraging.
Paul Emery had this to say...
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As he played for David Cutcliffe at Duke, people assume he’s great in terms of football intelligence – but what I see on tape is the opposite. When his first read isn’t there, he’s hesitant and holds the ball too long. He then takes far too many sacks. His footwork and mechanics are okay, but they look a little deliberate to me. His arm is okay, but on deeper balls he can’t make the Drew Lock type throw and it’s more touched in, which will give NFL safeties time to make a play on the ball.
Sy'56 had this to say...
Quote:
However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent....Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based.
The draftniks seem to give him credit for enough arm strength, decent but not great accuracy, good athletic ability, good mechanics, top notch toughness and leadership, but most question his mental game in one way or another. We will see, it could be a confidence issue in terms of his teammates being overmatched. That won't be the case in the NFL (i.e, it won't be Duke vs Alabama).
If anything prevents Jones from becoming a top QB its going to be the concerns that Emery and Sy reflected above.
I waffle on him a lot because their is alot to like but we passed up Josh Allen for him. And you wonder if the Giants were blinded by all the other stuff he brought to the table character wise.
It’s a concern for sure ... although I wonder how much of that was due to the terrible OL “protection” and the general lack of separation his WRs could get (not to mention dropping a ton of the passes)
Gotham entirely possible but my initial take when I truly saw his all around game was what Emery and Sy saw. Senior Bowl only reinforced it. I dont think he is as gifted as Eli in the speed of the mental processing and seeing the whole field. It could limit his upside quite a bit. Obviously I hope it was more due to the things you mentioned. Becuase they arent many other things he lacks to be an excellent QB. You noticed with Goff when all things are operating well he is good but he is not a Brady or Manning.
Now we will see with Jones because some tape shows otherwise. The consistency with him will be key
Paul Emery had this to say...
Quote:
As he played for David Cutcliffe at Duke, people assume he’s great in terms of football intelligence – but what I see on tape is the opposite. When his first read isn’t there, he’s hesitant and holds the ball too long. He then takes far too many sacks. His footwork and mechanics are okay, but they look a little deliberate to me. His arm is okay, but on deeper balls he can’t make the Drew Lock type throw and it’s more touched in, which will give NFL safeties time to make a play on the ball.
Sy'56 had this to say...
Quote:
However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent....Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based.
The draftniks seem to give him credit for enough arm strength, decent but not great accuracy, good athletic ability, good mechanics, top notch toughness and leadership, but most question his mental game in one way or another. We will see, it could be a confidence issue in terms of his teammates being overmatched. That won't be the case in the NFL (i.e, it won't be Duke vs Alabama).
Yep, I never questioned his arm strength, I always thought it was good enough. But these are the reviews that had(have) me nervous. But it's all speculation... we shall see.
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In comment 14454644 Giantz_comeback said:
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In comment 14454583 Milton said:
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It was mental processing speed. He appeared indecisive at times and a beat late getting the ball out of his hand. That kind of hesitancy can be the result of things other than processing speed, it could simply be a lack of trust in the receiver, or some other communication issue that has nothing to do with his processing speed. He scored 37 on the wonderlic so that's encouraging.
Paul Emery had this to say...
Quote:
As he played for David Cutcliffe at Duke, people assume he’s great in terms of football intelligence – but what I see on tape is the opposite. When his first read isn’t there, he’s hesitant and holds the ball too long. He then takes far too many sacks. His footwork and mechanics are okay, but they look a little deliberate to me. His arm is okay, but on deeper balls he can’t make the Drew Lock type throw and it’s more touched in, which will give NFL safeties time to make a play on the ball.
Sy'56 had this to say...
Quote:
However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent....Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based.
The draftniks seem to give him credit for enough arm strength, decent but not great accuracy, good athletic ability, good mechanics, top notch toughness and leadership, but most question his mental game in one way or another. We will see, it could be a confidence issue in terms of his teammates being overmatched. That won't be the case in the NFL (i.e, it won't be Duke vs Alabama).
If anything prevents Jones from becoming a top QB its going to be the concerns that Emery and Sy reflected above.
I waffle on him a lot because their is alot to like but we passed up Josh Allen for him. And you wonder if the Giants were blinded by all the other stuff he brought to the table character wise.
It’s a concern for sure ... although I wonder how much of that was due to the terrible OL “protection” and the general lack of separation his WRs could get (not to mention dropping a ton of the passes)
Gotham entirely possible but my initial take when I truly saw his all around game was what Emery and Sy saw. Senior Bowl only reinforced it. I dont think he is as gifted as Eli in the speed of the mental processing and seeing the whole field. It could limit his upside quite a bit. Obviously I hope it was more due to the things you mentioned. Becuase they arent many other things he lacks to be an excellent QB. You noticed with Goff when all things are operating well he is good but he is not a Brady or Manning.
Now we will see with Jones because some tape shows otherwise. The consistency with him will be key
Agreed ... Physically, Jones has it all. Size, mobility, arm strength - checks a lot of boxes.
- His “weaknesses” are an interesting case, as his cast was so awful that it’s hard to discern the extent to which it was Jones’ fault
I look forward to seeing him in action. He’s got an exciting skillset and Shurmur’s brought out the best in a lot of QBs ... cautiously optimistic. I expect a lot of ugly throws, which is why I want to get those rookie bumps and bruises out of the way ASAP. Entering Year 2 with some live NFL reps will go along way towards knowing if he could be “the guy”
I’m hopefull that a freak like Engram/Saquon at his disposal with reliable guys like Tate/Shep will calm some of my concerns with his processing speed. He’s smart and thrived under constant pressure - I think he’ll be ok
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Really hoping DJ becomes great. The amount of abuse & vitriol this kid has taken has been over the top.
You're right. I haven't seen a QB put under a microscope like this and take so much unwarranted criticism since... Eli Manning.
+1
...listen to the experts posting here, in the Corner Forum.
Got it!?
you left out the part "because it's such a mental game."
FWIW, Daniel earned the highest Wonderlic score of any of the drafted QBs (not including the one who took it twice). I believe it was significantly higher than Haskins and Murray.
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Is much less than a ringing endorsement.
you left out the part "because it's such a mental game."
FWIW, Daniel earned the highest Wonderlic score of any of the drafted QBs (not including the one who took it twice). I believe it was significantly higher than Haskins and Murray.
Wonderlic has little to do with processing speed and vision on a football field. There is little correlation in live game action. Picking up and understanding all concepts in a playbook is one thing. Processing them as rhey unfold before you with defenses showing different looks all in 3 sec or less is entirely another.
...listen to the experts posting here, in the Corner Forum.
Got it!?
Coaches dont give honest assessments of players through the media. This isnt a new thing. It's been reality forever. Teammates don't criticize other teammates unless its Tiki Barber opining that Strahan was overpaid. There are rare exceptions.
Give the kid a break, he looks like a dam good prospect.
You're welcome.
Gotta feel good though about a big brained mobile Tom Brady.
Give the kid a break, he looks like a dam good prospect.
Thank you, although I do enjoy the never ending progression
“Jones sucks ... OK he doesnt totally suck but still ... Ok he has ideal size and is athletic ... OK his arm sucks though ... OK his arm doesn’t suck but he’s inaccurate ... Ok he’s actually accurate with notable precise ball placement ... Processing speed ... yeah, processing speed.”
Looking forward to the next one
Give the kid a break, he looks like a dam good prospect.
Can we evolve past the thinking that every criticism of a player or this team is a result of some hive minded pessimism? These posts are obnoxious.
We have fans on bbi who may or may not have seen Jones play live, but certainly have never caught a pass thrown from him counter, “ Well, it s not super strong”
Priceless bbi
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to "processing speed"? Well at least its an improvement I guess. So where do we go after processing speed then?
Give the kid a break, he looks like a dam good prospect.
Can we evolve past the thinking that every criticism of a player or this team is a result of some hive minded pessimism? These posts are obnoxious.
It is a though shared by Sy, Emery and a few others. There are many qualities to like about Jones but this is one of legit concern. In a certain system or environment he may flourish we shall see.
Eli was in an infinitely less QB friendly and more complicated system vs. the player friendly one Shurmur runs.
There is zero chance that they give Eli an extension with Jones on the roster. No way is Jones not starting 2020. It's very likely he is the starter before this year is over.
I see a bigger version of Brees. Brees had nothing but garbage surrounding him but managed to make something out of nothing. Actually, Brees probably had a little more talent.
1. Phil Simms was unknown to fans (no ESPN, no internet, no draft industry hype) but very well known to NFL teams. It was no surprise to anyone in the NFL that he was a top 10 draft pick.
2. Phil Simms had a rocket arm and was a great athlete. Not a good arm not a good athlete. He was elite to use an Eli term in both areas.
3. He had no issue "processing the NFL" He was a star right away in his rookie year. The Giants didn't protect him and his career was almost over before it started because of the beatings he took before 1984. It also is the reason he didn't compile enough stats to make the HOF.
As far as Daniel Jones goes he is what the Mara's want their QB to be. He was drafted 100% for that reason alone. The Mara's have been operating this way for generations. See Tucker Frederickson and Gale Sayers in 1965. This is who they are. Let's hope Jones can play.
I just need to see him push the ball outside the hash marks with some zip. I'm not worried about his deep ball.
Exactly my sentiments and really because some have
questioned that but I have never seen any proof of that
. Is his arm as strong as Eli's ? Whom I don't remember
anyone saying wow about that . Eli played better competition even though Jones faced Clemson who likely
had one of the best College defenses of all time .
They were like 8 deep on the defensive line .
Until we see him make a few of those throws were really
don't know . I think he will be fine and he is in an
ideal situation .
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...says, ignore the GM, ignore the coach, ignore other coaches, ignore the teammates...
...listen to the experts posting here, in the Corner Forum.
Got it!?
Coaches dont give honest assessments of players through the media. This isnt a new thing. It's been reality forever. Teammates don't criticize other teammates unless its Tiki Barber opining that Strahan was overpaid. There are rare exceptions.
Way to make my point.
Everyone look at the critic...
...he has something important to say!
1. Phil Simms was unknown to fans (no ESPN, no internet, no draft industry hype) but very well known to NFL teams. It was no surprise to anyone in the NFL that he was a top 10 draft pick.
2. Phil Simms had a rocket arm and was a great athlete. Not a good arm not a good athlete. He was elite to use an Eli term in both areas.
3. He had no issue "processing the NFL" He was a star right away in his rookie year. The Giants didn't protect him and his career was almost over before it started because of the beatings he took before 1984. It also is the reason he didn't compile enough stats to make the HOF.
As far as Daniel Jones goes he is what the Mara's want their QB to be. He was drafted 100% for that reason alone. The Mara's have been operating this way for generations. See Tucker Frederickson and Gale Sayers in 1965. This is who they are. Let's hope Jones can play.
Phil Simms definitely was a great athlete with a great arm. But early on in his career he was often criticized for and guilty of “bird-dogging “ receivers, that s a fact.
For the record in my opinion Phil is the greatest Giants quarterback of all time, so that was not meant as a criticism of him, but I remember well what he was criticized for early on
+1
But the experts on BBI seem to want to ignore them and criticize those who tend to think SY and David TE were right. -- ummm ok.
But the experts on BBI seem to want to ignore them and criticize those who tend to think SY and David TE were right. -- ummm ok.
and Gil Brandt loves him ... and Cosell's scouting report on the positives to his game are exactly what you want in a QB ... guess we'll see who's right
Sy decided to give Jones a grade barely below Sam Darnold, fyi (81 v 80)