Many of us seem to be expecting the team to start slow as the young guys adjust and the o-line gels and we're hoping the team ends strong.
They probably won't make the playoffs but could be in the hunt, which would be an improvement.
That said, what do you think is this team's upside? Playoffs? Win a game in the playoffs? Something more?
I think if things break their way they could make the playoffs and win one game. How about everyone else?
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
I'd say thats the max
there also exists the possibility of 0-16
maybe this crew plays there hearts out and goes on a roll
We dont know.....we cant even name half the roster
Yup, he gets any kind of injury during training camp or pre-season and the team is in panic mode.
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
Division winner requires they better the Eagles and Cowboys and I just don't see that happening this season.
The wide receivers are a big question mark and there is still a lack of pass rush. I think they would be surpassing expectations if they reached 8-8.
But I really like and believe in them, so I'll go 9-7 as "realistic upside" watermark.
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
You really think this team is a *little* luck from competing for a championship?
Quote:
Super Bowl (with a little luck).
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
You really think this team is a *little* luck from competing for a championship?
and gelling on both sides of the ball I think the early
games where the schedule is not brutal and we could get
off to a quick start we could slip into the playoffs
of course there are injuries and playing disciplined .
Hopefully the 2nd and 3rd year players ascend and
the rookies have an impact .
I don’t think we’ve got the personnel right now to do that.
But we will in 2020.
Less talent at WR for certain.
But less talent at ER/OLB - why? Because OV was on the roster? He sucked. He sucked and was hurt half the year. I don't know Markus Goldman at all and Carter needs to get better fast, but I do not think they have less at ER...at worst it is even.
I do agree they could be a 6 win team, but with a better OL, and likely better DL, I think it is an eight win team.
I feel really strongly that this could be like the 02 team when they were gutted by FA but ended up a lot better that year than they were supposed to be (or even the 2000 team that had solid core of talent that finally put it together).
This could be one of those teams where halfway through the year everyone pretends like they thought they were going to be really good the whole time. Sort of when the Eagles took off two years ago they didn’t have a lot of expectations and all of a sudden by week 9 they were talked about like a perennial 10 year contender.
Quote:
but they're less talented at WR and ER, and all the new parts will require time for cohesion to build. Probably a 6-win team with the needle pointing up.
Less talent at WR for certain.
But less talent at ER/OLB - why? Because OV was on the roster? He sucked. He sucked and was hurt half the year. I don't know Markus Goldman at all and Carter needs to get better fast, but I do not think they have less at ER...at worst it is even.
I do agree they could be a 6 win team, but with a better OL, and likely better DL, I think it is an eight win team.
Vernon was easily their best and most effective pass rusher. You can be mad he was always hurt, and that can color your opinion, but he didn't suck. Making him out to be Clint Sintim is dumb. When he played he was effective. 21 hits on the QB in 11 games and 7 sacks was by far the best on the team and it wasn't particularly close.
Quote:
In comment 14455081 Milton said:
Quote:
Super Bowl (with a little luck).
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
You really think this team is a *little* luck from competing for a championship?
In May of 2007 and May of 2011, nobody was predicting a winning season, let alone Super Bowl contention. A little luck can go a long way!
This roster has a fraction of the talent of the 2007 on defense. It's insulting to compare rosters with Strahan and Umenyiora with this roster and say they're a little bit of luck away.
While w/l record is defining, i would add not always. our 11/5 record did say what kind of the team the giants were, a lucky, finesse team then that quickly receded in face of age and lack of talent. We are becoming a football team because we have football players. Coaches and players must develop into a team that can grow. We can dominate an opponent and work our will. Footballs bounce funny and refs have too much influence. but we are on our way with a “transformed Giants football” team.
The Giants defense isn’t in that universe yet.
Those teams had significant talent, and arguably underachieved early in the season and put it all together at the end.
This team has significantly less talent then those teams, and most importantly the QB is a decade older.
Quote:
In comment 14454722 JonC said:
Quote:
but they're less talented at WR and ER, and all the new parts will require time for cohesion to build. Probably a 6-win team with the needle pointing up.
Less talent at WR for certain.
But less talent at ER/OLB - why? Because OV was on the roster? He sucked. He sucked and was hurt half the year. I don't know Markus Goldman at all and Carter needs to get better fast, but I do not think they have less at ER...at worst it is even.
I do agree they could be a 6 win team, but with a better OL, and likely better DL, I think it is an eight win team.
Vernon was easily their best and most effective pass rusher. You can be mad he was always hurt, and that can color your opinion, but he didn't suck. Making him out to be Clint Sintim is dumb. When he played he was effective. 21 hits on the QB in 11 games and 7 sacks was by far the best on the team and it wasn't particularly close.
Yup. To see it otherwise tells me you don't know what you're watching.
Martin, Olsen, Golden, and Bathea all have concerns.
Bettcher had the one pretty productive year, but I frankly don't see him as a high potential coordinator.
That's a nice concise snapshot Y.
IMO you have to add in the obvious Peppers vs Collins, and some one or two from among the puppies at CB - most likely Beal and Baker.
But the the biggest single key is the revamped OL and the health of that group. When one considers Barkley's 2018, and the praise lavished on Halapio and the upgrade Zeitler brings to RG...
One can imagine Barkley going "wild" in year 2. I'm thinking 1600+ yards rushing and 1000+ receiving, if the OL stays healthy and Hernandez and Halapio are upgrades over themself and their replacement respectively.
I have to pinch myself to remind myself that Barkley did a LOT of what he did last year ON HIS OWN. I think back to Eric Dickerson predicting Barkley will struggle behind the Giants' OL in 2018, and then what Barkley actually did against the odds, then reconsider what the heck Barkley might do in 2019....
There's some crazy stat from PFF about what Barkley gained after contact last year... Now imagine him running through legitimate holes this year, or catching screens with OL in front of him who play well in space...
Not to mention if Tate is an upgrade over OBJ blocking at the 2nd level or downfield.
The downside I think is that our OL depth is paper thin, and we need SB healthy all 16 games.
Quote:
In comment 14455081 Milton said:
Quote:
Super Bowl (with a little luck).
Likely? Division Winner.
Floor? 8-8 (if injuries are problematic).
You really think this team is a *little* luck from competing for a championship?
In May of 2007 and May of 2011, nobody was predicting a winning season, let alone Super Bowl contention. A little luck can go a long way!
This is wrong. Especially the 2011 giants. Where do you get this stuff?
This is wrong. Especially the 2011 giants. Where do you get this stuff?
There were no high hopes going into 2007 and 2011. I'm sure the BBI archives will back me up if somebody should feel motivated enough to do the digging.
Quote:
In May of 2007 and May of 2011, nobody was predicting a winning season, let alone Super Bowl contention. A little luck can go a long way!
This is wrong. Especially the 2011 giants. Where do you get this stuff?
Who was predicting success? Tom Coughlin ended both 2006 and 2010 (despite the 10-6 record) on the hot seat with plenty of people calling for his head. As for 2011, it began with all the usual questions about the OL and injuries to Steven Smith and Terrell Thomas. They finished 9-7 but it was good enough to win the division (thanks to a costly overthrow by Tony Romo) and then they got hot in December and January. I'm optometrist by nature but those were two of the years in which I was least so, mainly due to question marks along the OL.
There were no high hopes going into 2007 and 2011. I'm sure the BBI archives will back me up if somebody should feel motivated enough to do the digging.
I remember the sentiment going into 2007 questioning whether Coughlin could ever get a team over the hump, and whether his act had grown tired. He had consecutive playoff exits in the first round, and Barber among others had noted his style as an issue.
But I don't think talent or leadership was a huge question going into 2007. The Giants had a young QB with 2 playoff seasons under his belt, plenty of vets at the top of their game, and two franchise leaders in Toomer and Strahan.
There's basically nothing on this roster or regime that compares to 2007.
I remember the sentiment going into 2007 questioning whether Coughlin could ever get a team over the hump, and whether his act had grown tired. He had consecutive playoff exits in the first round, and Barber among others had noted his style as an issue.
But I don't think talent or leadership was a huge question going into 2007. The Giants had a young QB with 2 playoff seasons under his belt, plenty of vets at the top of their game, and two franchise leaders in Toomer and Strahan.
There's basically nothing on this roster or regime that compares to 2007.
I'm not saying the Giants didn't have huge questions going into '07 -- I'm saying those questions were dramatically different than this year. That team was viewed as talented and underachievers.
All I am saying is the questions going into this year are much different, and that this is a far less talented, and less accomplished group.
Coughlin had several years with more wins than Shurmur's career total. Manning was in his mid 20s, had 2 playoffs games under his belt, and played really well against Philly. Tuck, Robbins, Osi, and Strahan were a known very good pass rushers. Burress and Toomer were an established, effective pair. The offensive line had two new starters, both of whom had been on the team previously and logged many games etc. etc.
and then there's realistically, if things all go well, how far can this team go?
what can go well?
-the OL gels, the QB puts in solid production, and the WR/TE put up good numbers, while Barkley has a stellar year. A decent O that eats up the clock and doesn't go 3 and out all the time. Not batshit crazy to think it is possible.
- D is going to require a lot of going well. but, we were in a lot of games as time was winding down that the D blew. Just being a hair better wins us a bunch of games. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect the fart to smell like lollipops and roses, but it doesn't have to be a fart that clears the room, either. Maybe the youngsters step up to the plate. If they do, maybe the D doesn't win us games, but also doesn't lose them.
I expect a 6-8 W season. But I don't think it's whacked to see a 9 win regular season with a win in the playoffs before one of the big dogs knocks us back to Earth. the latter scenario is the upside.
So basically offensive line needs to perform, defense needs to over achieve, and I think another playmaker needs to step up on offense so its not just the Barkley show.
If they do those things they could be fighting for a wildcard spot, but I don't think this a team I'd expect to go very far in the playoffs.
Much the same as we've seen in past is what this team will be like
Team records can change a lot from season to season. Injuries and turnovers are so important, and turnovers are about one half luck of where the ball goes after it has been knocked free or batted up in the air.
Team records can change a lot from season to season. Injuries and turnovers are so important, and turnovers are about one half luck of where the ball goes after it has been knocked free or batted up in the air.
and then there's realistically, if things all go well, how far can this team go?
what can go well?
-the OL gels, the QB puts in solid production, and the WR/TE put up good numbers, while Barkley has a stellar year. A decent O that eats up the clock and doesn't go 3 and out all the time. Not batshit crazy to think it is possible.
- D is going to require a lot of going well. but, we were in a lot of games as time was winding down that the D blew. Just being a hair better wins us a bunch of games. Maybe it's unrealistic to expect the fart to smell like lollipops and roses, but it doesn't have to be a fart that clears the room, either. Maybe the youngsters step up to the plate. If they do, maybe the D doesn't win us games, but also doesn't lose them.
I expect a 6-8 W season. But I don't think it's whacked to see a 9 win regular season with a win in the playoffs before one of the big dogs knocks us back to Earth. the latter scenario is the upside.
Our team now looks better then 07 talent wise to me plus 6-8 season? What about the other two games. And I wouldn't blame pur defense blowing those last minute games when in 90% of them Eli threw a int, fumbled or just easy 3 and out first drive.... Cant blame that on D