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What's the realistic upside of this team?

armstead98 : 5/24/2019 10:56 am
Many of us seem to be expecting the team to start slow as the young guys adjust and the o-line gels and we're hoping the team ends strong.

They probably won't make the playoffs but could be in the hunt, which would be an improvement.

That said, what do you think is this team's upside? Playoffs? Win a game in the playoffs? Something more?

I think if things break their way they could make the playoffs and win one game. How about everyone else?
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With a better OL and Bettcher possibly having his guys,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/24/2019 11:03 am : link
playoffs
.  
mattlawson : 5/24/2019 11:05 am : link
Realistically IF all the many questions are answered in the positive  
The_Boss : 5/24/2019 11:06 am : link
My guess is .500

Until proven otherwise though, I still think this is a 4-6 win team.
Ceiling/Floor  
AcesUp : 5/24/2019 11:13 am : link
2018 Ceiling - Browns
2018 Floor - 49ers

Either a young team that really starts to gel and push for a playoff spot at the end of the year with a lot of hope for the next season. Or a young team that flashes and struggles with consistency with a lot of hope for the next season.
I expect them to play hard and show signs of ascension  
JonC : 5/24/2019 11:13 am : link
but they're less talented at WR and ER, and all the new parts will require time for cohesion to build. Probably a 6-win team with the needle pointing up.
Ask we after week 2  
GothamGiants : 5/24/2019 11:13 am : link
It wouldn’t shock me if this team started out 0-2 and we see another 5-11/6-10 type season

It also wouldn’t shock me if everything clicked and they go 10-6, splitting with DAL/PHI

Most likely something in between, 7-9/8-8 type season. I like where this team is heading, 2020 is my year for legit playoff contention with another solid draft and a splash or 2 in free agency (Clowney, Daryl Williams/La’el Collins) + a stud WR for Jones in round 1.
somewhere between 7-9 and 9-7  
Del Shofner : 5/24/2019 11:15 am : link
is my guess
I see them as a team like the Titans  
Matt in SGS : 5/24/2019 11:17 am : link
the past few years. They are going to limit the QB play to short passes and focus on pounding the ball. They are going to build a physical offensive line to control the ball and hope the defense gels and plays well. This is probably a 6-10 or 7-9 team right now, and with the right breaks can go 9-7 and be in the playoff hunt.

I sat out in that Titan game in the rain (which was the worst weather game I have ever sat through in going to games since 1987). The Titans just pounded the ball over and over and over. Played conservative offense and physical defense. It was throwback football to the 1980s Giants.

The Giants are not talented enough to make noise in the playoffs, but if things break right, they can get to the playoffs and get bumped in the Wild Card.
7-9  
uther99 : 5/24/2019 11:22 am : link
my guess.

RE: I see them as a team like the Titans  
Big Blue '56 : 5/24/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14454737 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
the past few years. They are going to limit the QB play to short passes and focus on pounding the ball. They are going to build a physical offensive line to control the ball and hope the defense gels and plays well. This is probably a 6-10 or 7-9 team right now, and with the right breaks can go 9-7 and be in the playoff hunt.

I sat out in that Titan game in the rain (which was the worst weather game I have ever sat through in going to games since 1987). The Titans just pounded the ball over and over and over. Played conservative offense and physical defense. It was throwback football to the 1980s Giants.

The Giants are not talented enough to make noise in the playoffs, but if things break right, they can get to the playoffs and get bumped in the Wild Card.


The possibility is the 1984 Giants who squeaked into the playoffs, beat the favored Rams at LA and lost an actual struggle with the Niners
Barkley and the O-line is the wild card for me  
armstead98 : 5/24/2019 11:24 am : link
If they gel quickly and smash the ball down teams' throats, this team could be tough.

I think the upside is a lot higher than most as a result.
19-0 Baby!  
Scyber : 5/24/2019 11:32 am : link
.
Until  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/24/2019 11:33 am : link
proven otherwise, Super Bowl baby!!!

Ballin'!
I think they win  
montanagiant : 5/24/2019 11:33 am : link
9 games
we should be  
MotownGIANTS : 5/24/2019 11:35 am : link
a 9-7 to 11-5 team ... we have a softer schedule. The 2ndary should be able to matchup with ANY team in the league.

Defensively can we get some pressure and will we stop the run. I am confident in the latter.

Question is will be able to play make minimal mistakes on offense. We will be a plodding O for most of the year with calculated deep strikes...ie set up the pass with the run. Eli can not be inaccurate nor throw dumb picks.
Potentially ....skies the limit.  
George from PA : 5/24/2019 11:35 am : link
Contending but falling short of playoff is reasonable
10-6  
Bill L : 5/24/2019 11:38 am : link
.
I think an even more interesting question wouild be  
Bill L : 5/24/2019 11:41 am : link
if the Giants actually do exceed expectations (some of those last minute losses from last year turn into wins) what record or outcome, if any, would keep Jones on the bench for another year?
I keep reading Less Than 5 Wins by all the "Experts"  
ZogZerg : 5/24/2019 11:50 am : link
...
If they lose their home opener to the Bills  
jc in c-ville : 5/24/2019 12:11 pm : link
I’m going to be pissed. Losing at Dallas is expected. Losing to the Bills at home ( home opener) would be utterly sobering and a reason to start the rookie QB for the rest of the year.
I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
Ivan15 : 5/24/2019 12:13 pm : link
More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.
RE: If they lose their home opener to the Bills  
GothamGiants : 5/24/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14454860 jc in c-ville said:
Quote:
I’m going to be pissed. Losing at Dallas is expected. Losing to the Bills at home ( home opener) would be utterly sobering and a reason to start the rookie QB for the rest of the year.


Ding ... and that Bills D coming to town is no joke
- I expect the Giants to win, but it’s going to be a lot closer/uglier than people want to admit. Their pass defense is elite.
This is  
FranchiseQB : 5/24/2019 12:21 pm : link
a six win team. Absolute upside is 8 or 9 wins, but this is as likely as 3 wins.
RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
FranchiseQB : 5/24/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.


Seriously? They lost some of their best players. A lot of question marks remain. It is perfectly reasonable to expect they will not be better this year.
As they stand now, the playoffs are the upside - 7-9 is the floor.  
Ira : 5/24/2019 12:23 pm : link
I'm still hoping that DG has another big move or a few small ones to come that will make the Giants stronger.
It's all on the defense at this point  
Bill L : 5/24/2019 12:26 pm : link
Their offense scored the most points in the division and should get better with the OL additions. Question will be whether their improved secondary compensates for their decreased pass rush (and the pass rush stunk last year). Considering that a good percentage of their losses last year was solely due to a last minute defensive collapse, particularly in the secondary, I think that there is ample room for optimism.
RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
JonC : 5/24/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.


Less talent at WR and ER, key positions in pro football.
RE: RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
GothamGiants : 5/24/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14454881 FranchiseQB said:
Quote:
In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.



Seriously? They lost some of their best players. A lot of question marks remain. It is perfectly reasonable to expect they will not be better this year.


The only “loss” that will be felt is Odell
RE: RE: I see them as a team like the Titans  
Matt in SGS : 5/24/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14454752 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14454737 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


the past few years. They are going to limit the QB play to short passes and focus on pounding the ball. They are going to build a physical offensive line to control the ball and hope the defense gels and plays well. This is probably a 6-10 or 7-9 team right now, and with the right breaks can go 9-7 and be in the playoff hunt.

I sat out in that Titan game in the rain (which was the worst weather game I have ever sat through in going to games since 1987). The Titans just pounded the ball over and over and over. Played conservative offense and physical defense. It was throwback football to the 1980s Giants.

The Giants are not talented enough to make noise in the playoffs, but if things break right, they can get to the playoffs and get bumped in the Wild Card.



The possibility is the 1984 Giants who squeaked into the playoffs, beat the favored Rams at LA and lost an actual struggle with the Niners


I'd love to see it. The obvious difference in 1984 was that Giants defense started to gel as all their young top players all came together (LT, Marshall, Kinard, Banks and Reasons were rookies who were playing). And Simms took control of the team finally and the Giants actually threw the ball a ton, Joe Morris didn't really establish himself until later in the season.

I can actually see a 1984 type occurrence more in 2020 as Jones takes over, the defense with all these young guys starts to gel and the light goes on finally.

RE: RE: RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
Bill L : 5/24/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14454889 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14454881 FranchiseQB said:


Quote:


In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.



Seriously? They lost some of their best players. A lot of question marks remain. It is perfectly reasonable to expect they will not be better this year.



The only “loss” that will be felt is Odell


I think that the loss of OBJ is well balanced by...well, balance. But also by bigger receiving roles for Engram and Barkley.
Upside?  
Red Dog : 5/24/2019 12:31 pm : link
A round one win in the playoffs.

I can't see them doing any better than that, and even that would take pretty much everything going right.
500...  
silverfox : 5/24/2019 12:41 pm : link
Would be a vast improvement. They've killed our hopes so many times...change of coaches, players, etc hadn't moved the chains.
The surprises will be pleasant this season.  
Cool Down : 5/24/2019 12:46 pm : link
11-5 and deep into playoffs.
Even better in 2020.
Surprises will be pleasant this season.  
Cool Down : 5/24/2019 12:48 pm : link
11-6 and deep into playoffs.
Even better in 2020.
If a bunch of stuff falls into place playoffs 2nd round  
Giantz_comeback : 5/24/2019 12:51 pm : link
11-5. It all depends on how fast the youth gels on defense. Offense will be quite good in Elis hands. We aren't going to see much of Jones is my guess.
RE: RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
Klaatu : 5/24/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14454888 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.



Less talent at WR and ER, key positions in pro football.


In his three-year stint with the Giants, Olivier Vernon played an average of 13 games per year (16, 12, 11), starting every game he played in. He averaged 43 tackles and 7 sacks per year. In those three years he also had 1 interception, 2 passes-defended, and he forced 3 fumbles.

In his rookie year, Lorenzo Carter appeared in 15 games with 2 starts. He racked up 43 tackles, 4 sacks, and 4 passes-defended. Presumably, with the absence of Vernon, Carter's role will be expanded this year. The addition of Golden aside, are we really losing that much production off the edge going from Vernon to Carter? Sure, stats don't tell the whole story, but they do tell part of it. As with Landon Collins, Vernon has regressed every year since 2016. I don't think we'll miss him all that much.

As for WR, no question we traded away our most talented guy, and I doubt any single WR on the roster now will come close to matching Beckham's production. However, it's not up to any individual WR to try and make up for Beckham's absence. It's up to the corps as a unit to make the most of their opportunities when they're called on to do so, the same way the RB's made up for the absence of Tiki "60% of the offense" Barber a dozen years ago.
I think .500 is attainable this season.  
Brown Recluse : 5/24/2019 1:15 pm : link
I see a scrappy team here with some hungry young guys.

Lack of talent at WR and EDGE is definitely a valid concern. I think they can potentially break even this season but these two glaring holes are what will keep them out of playoff contention.

I expect that to be a different story in 2020 though.
9 or 10 wins  
MarkT : 5/24/2019 1:16 pm : link
We are a better team than last year. But a bit younger.
We will score points, but can the Defense stop the other teams. That was the case last year.
8-8  
2cents : 5/24/2019 1:20 pm : link
seems like a reasonable predication. only need a few things to break our way to be a playoff team or as we saw last year the reverse and and were looking more at 6-10.

either way I just hope were playing meaningful games late into the year rather than hanging on the edge of being mathematically eliminated from contention by week 6.

Today's NFL  
Fred in Atlanta : 5/24/2019 1:27 pm : link
is to unpredictable to give upsides. How many expected the Super Bowl in 2007 or the Rams in 2001 winning the Superbowl? Upside for almost every team is Super Bowl.
RE: RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
djm : 5/24/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14454888 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.



Less talent at WR and ER, key positions in pro football.


How are they worse at ER? Everyone here hated Vernon when he played and he missed virtually half the games last year. The team was scoring points with Beckham doing more work on Instagram than on on the field, in December.

If we get 14 games out of Tate and he does what he does we aren’t worse at wr. We’re actually better since Beckham missed around 16 games over the last 2 seasons. We aren’t replacing 2015 Beckham. Let’s not forget that.

We’re a better, deeper and more cohesive team going into 2019. And we’re facing a manageable schedule.
RE: Today's NFL  
Fred in Atlanta : 5/24/2019 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14454948 Fred in Atlanta said:
Quote:
is to unpredictable to give upsides. How many expected the Super Bowl in 2007 or the Rams in 2001 winning the Superbowl? Upside for almost every team is Super Bowl.

I should have said Rams 1999, Pats were 2001
Upside is 6 wins,  
Default : 5/24/2019 1:32 pm : link
did anyone else here watch the past two seasons?
It's not like the team has gotten any better this offseason.
RE: Upside is 6 wins,  
Bill L : 5/24/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14454956 Default said:
Quote:
did anyone else here watch the past two seasons?
It's not like the team has gotten any better this offseason.


Really?

I fell like it's gotten waaay better. Biggest weak points from last season to me were OL and secondary. OL had people who should not be playing in the NFL plus rookie feeling hsi way plus a tackle learning a new team and playing next to a rookie. They already showed signs of gelling. Now you add two established vets with one being arguably a star and that seems way improved to me.

Last year's secondary was playing only journeymen at best or UFDa's. This year they have high draft picks. Seems much better to me.

I'm expecting a much improved run game and much better coverage (secondarily more "coverage" sacks) at the very least.
A revelation will take place in Dallas  
G-crew18 : 5/24/2019 1:42 pm : link
I believe that opening day will allow us to see the potential of the 2019 Giants. The key will be how the OL handles the LOS, I think they will dominate which will unleash SB while opening up play action which Eli excels at. On D Lawrence will manhandle Fredrick's on his return which will bottle up Zeke. Prescott will find tighter coverage and will be compromised.

If the team plays to there potential 11-5 is not beyond reason. Last season the secondary was a liability, this season I can see 49er like turn around with all the young additions. The Giants are the great unknown to the pundits because all they see is no OBJ, Vernon and Collins. What will be revealed is that they are a team not a group of a few stars.

Watch for the rise of the new beast in the east. Only then will those who laugh at DG having no plan will be proved foolish forced to eat crow.
...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/24/2019 1:47 pm : link
...10-6
RE: RE: RE: I don’t understand how anyone can think that this team won’t win  
Brown Recluse : 5/24/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14454949 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14454888 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 14454864 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


More games than last year.

The o-line is improved and the secondary can’t be any worse.



Less talent at WR and ER, key positions in pro football.



How are they worse at ER? Everyone here hated Vernon when he played and he missed virtually half the games last year. The team was scoring points with Beckham doing more work on Instagram than on on the field, in December.

If we get 14 games out of Tate and he does what he does we aren’t worse at wr. We’re actually better since Beckham missed around 16 games over the last 2 seasons. We aren’t replacing 2015 Beckham. Let’s not forget that.

We’re a better, deeper and more cohesive team going into 2019. And we’re facing a manageable schedule.


Which of the edge rushers we have now was better than Vernon though? Do you think that Vernon required double teams at times? Which of our edge rushers now will command that kind of attention? I don't see any.

Same with Beckham. Who's double or triple-covering Tate or Shepard? Who is game-planning for them? Who is our bonafide deep threat? We don't have one. And yes, while they scored a good deal of points in three games without Beckham in the fold, they were also shut out in one. You can spin that in a few different ways but lets not pretend like it doesn't matter.

Maybe Shurmur and Bettcher will find a way to make it work without these pieces. Maybe Golden will return to form. Maybe Lorenzo Carter and Evan Engram will take a big step.

These are all maybes though. As it stands right now, WR and EDGE are holes and its hard to win without them - unless you can figure out some way to over-compensate elsewhere.

Klaatu, djm  
JonC : 5/24/2019 1:56 pm : link
It's all a projection. Proven players were moved out, no matter how disappointing they might have been at times, they were proven players. OV still generated pressure, that was his game. OB was missing that extra gear, but was still a plus threat at WR. The players replacing them are young players we're hopeful about, and a Tate who's been hot and cold throughout his NFL career.
I see a lot of BBIers  
JonC : 5/24/2019 1:58 pm : link
statically proclaiming vets moved out will effectively be replaced by youngsters. It typically doesn't happen that easily, is my point. Carter and the others will need to demonstrate considerable improvement to generate a rush.

On offense, the revamped OL and SB will create more offense including in the red zone. But, there's no WR back there now that puts fear in the defense and keeps the DC up at night trying to gameplan.
RE: I see a lot of BBIers  
Giantz_comeback : 5/24/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14454992 JonC said:
Quote:
statically proclaiming vets moved out will effectively be replaced by youngsters. It typically doesn't happen that easily, is my point. Carter and the others will need to demonstrate considerable improvement to generate a rush.

On offense, the revamped OL and SB will create more offense including in the red zone. But, there's no WR back there now that puts fear in the defense and keeps the DC up at night trying to gameplan.


Yet in Shurmurs system and with Barkley garnering much attention the passing game was quite good without OBJ. Now add Tate and they aren't all stars per se but steady vets who gain separation and should continue to be productive.
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