Is Gettleman doing a good job?

I think he shows a clear vision and acts on that vision.

Plan.. weather or not he Executes it is till be determined. He is building through the draft while targeting skill sets that fit the coaches schemes. I also believe drafting a QB who can take his time and learn under a real pro is the best approach.

In comment 14455697 adamg said:

Quote:

I think he shows a clear vision and acts on that vision.

Same here and I like the fact he doesn't seem to give a shit what anyone outside the organization thinks either.

He's willing to stand by his decisions in the biggest media market there is and not waver if any of those decisions aren't popular. That shows me he's confident in his decisions, and it gives me some confidence in them as well.

we'll see. Some of his free agent moves have been questionable, but at least he lets the garbage go. He's not afraid to go against popular opinion. His emphasis on culture is a good thing. All in all, I like him. I think the Giants are being developed into a contender, but they're not there yet.

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But seriously, both of his draft look like HRs.

The OL was never close to being fixed....now, we have proven NFL talent.

No Ego. Mistakes are dealt with right away. Instead of being excused away, just to be proven wrong over and over.

Fixes problems....corners....check!

Takes the heat on vs passing the buck.

Now, its a results business...they must start winning sooner then later.

of controlling the line of scrimmage offensively and defensively makes me think of our great 80's teams. Of course we don't have the great linebackers we did then, but am hoping the current group is up and coming though in all likelihood, still a work in progress. Seems Gettleman has cornered the market in corners, which in a pass happy league, seems to make more sense than having 4 all world linebackers.

So, his chips are placed on the offensive and defensive lines. This is certainly a time honored belief. If your team can cover well on top of that, then there's no easy way for teams to beat you. They really have to earn it. There is still work to be done, but I like what I see so far. I think we will start to see some dividends this year, regardless of which QB is at the helm. If Gettleman puts together another solid draft next year, I think we'll have a very very competive team.

collectively seem much more important than the departures. I can't believe he shored up the OL, the DT position, and acquired a whole new secondary. Seems like a very promising roster.

Personally, I think the players he got rid of, or did not re-sign for the Panthers and Giants, weren�t mistakes at all.

The only glaring mistake so far in NY was Omameh. That was just a bad decision made too quickly while trying to implement his rebuild.

I�ve always disagreed with those who claimed he didn�t have a plan. He whiffed on some FAs last year, but hit on several draft picks and had made decisive moves for the team�s future this offseason.

But in the end, he�ll always be judged based on how the transition from Eli works out. He�s made his move with the Jones pick...will be a few years before we can say for sure whether he got it right.

He has mismanaged resources greatly. Letting Collins walk for nothing is terrible. I understand not wanting to pay him, that's fine, but then he needed to be traded before the deadline. The team had to know the situation contract and play wise 5 months earlier. The Odell trade was terrible in my opinion as well. Odell is a generational receiver. The trade compensation was way too low especially considering the massive dead cap space we took. I hate when Gettleman tries say that getting Peppers is like getting a first rounder. He is on the 3rd year of his deal and has played mediocre so far. Even if he is right on Peppers talent level, we only get him on cost control for another 2 years after this instead of 4 (factoring in 5th year option that will increase his pay). While Saquon is a great player and I am happy to have him on the team, it is still questionable logic to take him number 2 use such a valuable resource on him (obviously his play has been stellar, not trying to debate that). The verdict on that decision will be how long can he actually keep up playing, and whether a team a team that can win can built within that time period. Once again, no knock on the talent.

His drafting talent-wise last year looked good, but no one can judge a draft after a year (other than the Colts who sent like 3 players to the all-pro teams). We have had plenty of drafts that have looked good and then been terrible. As for this year's draft, we haven't seen them play, so who knows, but it worries me that he puts any stock into the senior bowl game as a scouting device, especially for QBs. Its like using the Pro-Bowl to scout free agents.

His free agents have not been good, and that's not even debatable. We had to cut multiple guys we signed last year to multi year deals. Solder did not play like even a top 5 LT, and I think the Golden Tate contract is high, and a weird signing given his age. Also, not a signing, but why the hell did we trade for Ogletree and his cap hit?

Not to be completely negative, trading JPP was a great move, and I think resigning Shep before this year could turn out to be smart, especially looking at the money other guys got this year and the increased looks he's probably going to get.

I think he'll fix the o-line which will make the team competitive. I haven't hated any of his moves this offseason. Picking Jones has really changed my view of the team. At least the future is on the team. We'll see what sort of future it is.

The flak that he (and Jones) have taken from the national and local media is pretty ridiculous...

Next offseason will be very interesting... Significant cap room and possibly his first draft that he doesn�t have a roster littered with holes...

Him being hated by the press (if true) is his own doing.

He is a dipshit in that regard and couldn't even handle the drafting of Jones well.

That said, I like his approach to building a football team.

Guess we'll see, but I'm bullish of the Giants going forward with Gettleman.

on the Daniel Jones selection. If Jones is great DG will be hailed as a hero. If Jones busts out, DG will be run out of town.

he's doing a great job.

As good or better than the quarterbacks they passed on last draft, it will go down as great move

If Jones turns into a star, it is an all time move

I like Gettleman.

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You want to win? Then you have to hold your own or better at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. This coming season is the first one in a long time I'm confident we will achieve that fundamental goal.

There's still work to do and I've said all along that 2020 would be the year we return to contention. That said the schedule this year is favorable and we have a chance to get to .500 or perhaps slightly better.

This class hasn�t even played a down. How about we wait and see what happens?

This place has turned into a delusional cult.

he is doing a great job in an initially really tough situation

too early to tell, but his philosophy of building from the inside out with the lines is certainly defensible, and also belies the claim that he doesn't have a "plan." His draft last year was excellent, but his FA acquisitions overall were poor. We obviously don't know about this year's draft picks and FA acquisitions, but I agree that his legacy depends on Jones. That's true of any GM who uses a top 10 pick on a QB.

Though I won't say fire him. We have to wait for 2020 season to finish.

His Free Agent signings are filled with blunders which is the worst of it.

I think Jones was an awful pick but ofc as I say above we'll have to wait and see. But as of this moment it looks horrid imo but this is only a small/minor part of his terrible rating. His comment he knows Jones would've been taken earlier -- why believe him?

He should be younger in the OL and he's not. The Jordan Tate pickup was laughable. As was the trade the prior year for Ogeltree in terms of what we're paying him. Just think 26 yo ILB Jordan Hicks is making near the same as 30 yo Tate. The Solder pickup instead of getting two young IL was another blunder. SHould've traded Collins earlier.

With all that said if Jones turns out good and -- he has cap money next year and potentially this past draft and next year's might be decent enough - then it could all work out despite his past blunders.

Of him or the head coach. His gross misevaluation of the roster last year was all I needed to cement my belief that this regime isn�t the one which will be responsible for the next consistent winner here. And while it bears no bearing on his decision making, personally it irks me to no end the majority in the media perceives the man as a clueless buffoon who is directing a rudderless operation with no plan.

In comment 14455785 AcidTest said:

Quote:

too early to tell, but his philosophy of building from the inside out with the lines is certainly defensible, and also belies the claim that he doesn't have a "plan." His draft last year was excellent, but his FA acquisitions overall were poor. We obviously don't know about this year's draft picks and FA acquisitions, but I agree that his legacy depends on Jones. That's true of any GM who uses a top 10 pick on a QB.

This stuff about "he's building inside-out" is an illusion. His center isn't good nor is his RT. His RT and LT and his center aren;t long term solutions though the lT will hang a bit but by the time they can potentially be very good the 2020 season he'll really be exposed.

WHen some of you say build from the inside out - you refer to defense, he still doens't have a clear pass rusher. It's all hope that Golden can come back or someone shocks us. That's not "building" - it's closer to calling in a prayer. OFC the prayer might work but it's mroe out of luck than competence.

**Let's not go overboard what DG has built. LAst year we were the worst up front at both offense and defense and until proven otherwise why say what's he's built is something good? Ohh yeah I forgot with some posters the "great" Mike Remmers who signed a $1.125m contract is a lock to shut down the hole at RT.

In comment 14455789 giantstock said:

Quote:

Though I won't say fire him. We have to wait for 2020 season to finish. His Free Agent signings are filled with blunders which is the worst of it. I think Jones was an awful pick but ofc as I say above we'll have to wait and see. But as of this moment it looks horrid imo but this is only a small/minor part of his terrible rating. His comment he knows Jones would've been taken earlier -- why believe him? He should be younger in the OL and he's not. The Jordan Tate pickup was laughable. As was the trade the prior year for Ogeltree in terms of what we're paying him. Just think 26 yo ILB Jordan Hicks is making near the same as 30 yo Tate. The Solder pickup instead of getting two young IL was another blunder. SHould've traded Collins earlier. With all that said if Jones turns out good and -- he has cap money next year and potentially this past draft and next year's might be decent enough - then it could all work out despite his past blunders.

Made a typo meant OL instead of IL with Soldier.

If the Giants win 5 games again, the answer will be "NO."

Rebuilds in the NFL happen quickly. Guys have short careers and are under team control for only 4-5 years. It's not like the other sports where you can have a long rebuild. If you wait that long, the guys you drafted year ONE will already be free agents in year FIVE.

So Giants have have more wins--I would say at least 8--for DG's plan to be considered a success. They don't have to make the playoffs but they have to be competing for a playoff spot at the end.

The concentration of talent at the top of the draft is acute. Gettleman has had the no. 2 and no. 6 overall picks. He's also traded essentially all of the talent on the team to accrue more top 75 picks.

This, by design, should not last. There's basically no more talent to trade and hopefully the Giants aren't picking at the top.

He's built a young, cost-controlled base through the draft. That's a great first step. Now they have to prove it.

His UFA acquisitions have been underwhelming. I don't think his big gets in Solder or Tate were wise. Both were deep into their careers and getting paid above their performance. I also think the idea of "who else was available, you had to sign ..." is a terrible way to manage a team.

I also think he's signed a bunch of basically no ones on defense from the Cardinals, and I don't think any of them are part of the future. Feels like Dan Reeves and the New York Broncos.

1. Gettleman understands that football games are contested in a confined area and therefore are won by power in the trenches. The previous GM did not. Plus one for DG.

2. Gettleman's first act as GM was to fire Marc Ross, who was THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASON that the GIANTS had fallen from one of the best teams in the league to one of the worst. Plus another one for DG.

3. Gettleman has apparently cleaned out the locker room negativity and divisiveness that was left from the previous regime. Plus another one for DG.

4. Gettleman understands how to play the vet acquisition and free agent game. The previous GM really did not. Don't get hung up on DG's widely publicized failed vet FA signings, he has also made some good ones, like upgrading the gunners, the return men, the wideout depth, and the Fullback without expending significant resources, and by trading a 7th rounder to upgrade the punter. And any one who thinks the GIANTS got nothing for Landon Collins simply does not understand how the league works. The team is likely getting a higher compensatory draft pick for him than they would have received if they had simply traded him last season. Plus another one for DG.

5. Gettleman's first draft looks like it will be the best draft the team has had in more than a decade. Plus another one for DG.

6. The jury is still out on Gettleman's second draft, but it does look promising in both quantity and quality of players acquired - probably more promising than any for the prior regime in more than a decade. Obviously Daniel Jones will make or break this draft, but beyond him, it looks good. Plus another one for DG.

7. Gettleman is also bringing the player contract situation under control. Under the previous regime, it had gotten totally out of hand in both relative and absolute terms as they resorted to throwing truck loads of money at players when nothing else was working. Plus another one for DG.

This team had become such a disaster that it was not going to be turned around in one year. But the team is being turned around. Whether or not it will be successful long term remains to be seen, but Gettleman has begun to reverse the long downhill slide of the previous regime, and is doing a good job of giving them a real chance to be successful again.

His first draft was outstanding:
Barkley, Hernandez, BJ, Lorenzo are all impact starters this season.

He's turned over an amazing amount of roster players (see other threads for details).

Anyone bashing him not for having immediate success doesn't understand football. It always takes 2-3 years even when you are doing the right things.

Sure there's Omameh, and not getting anything for LC, but he has almost completely turned over the roster in such a short time. I don't think that this team can be fairly judged based on this year's record either. I think 2020 is going to be a better gauge of this overhaul.

Personally I'm careful to equate new with good. I'm hopeful the roster will mature successfully. Not all of the acquisitions will succeed.

And there are still many critical areas, and I agree, another quality offseason is needed.

Center, right tackle, free safety, inside line backer, outside line backer, and WR need more talent before this is a championship team.

But people declaring this years class as great 5 weeks after the draft is a little much

But I think Gettleman has chosen a very risky path for the future.

Foregoing the huge cap savings by keeping 38 year old Eli, instead of investing that money elsewhere to further improve the team, and drafting the riskiest QB in this draft at #6.

Too early to tell. Let�s give him 2 more years.

so far i like what he's done.

and can we please stop saying we let collins walk for nothing? do we forget he had surgery on his torn labrum AFTER the trade deadline? do we forget the chiefs 3rd or 4th is probably just as good as the 3rd round comp pick we'll get?

maybe if he didn't get hurt we'd of made him an offer or tagged him. but we didn't... but stop acting like we're not getting compensated in anyway.

We can judge him based on a year, have a general view of his first year, and still be open to criticizing his moves as they happen.

But obviously Jones is a big factor

Doesn't get too much credit for Barkley, a real no brainer of a pick, and while I think he did great with Hernandez and OK (to be seen this year with both Carter and Hill, WTF did he select Lauletta - who likely doesn't have NFL tools let alone the head - when an OL like Tyrell Crosby was on the board?

The Lauletta pick in retrospect was a total whiff, and given Eli's age we all knew DG was gonna throw a number one at a QB at some point and soon...

Crosby started 2 games I think last year, and is projected as a starter this year. Article featuring Hernandez last year pre-draft also talked up Crosby as a 2nd-3rd round pick (projected WH in the 1st) linked below. .He was available still when DG tabbed LOL-letta.

Obviously some of his FA signings shit the bed, too. Gotta see how this draft and the Remmers signing work out, no guarantees on anyone just yet, right?



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928076/article/three-manmoving-prospects-to-watch-in-2018-nfl-draft
Tyrell Crosby OT Oregon Combine Profile - ( New Window )

I forget which one, say on a radio interview recently that he believes Mara is calling a lot of the shots and Gettlemen has to smooth it over with the press.
I don't really believe that, but its a pretty bold statement to make on a radio show if there is nothing to it.

Building from inside out - both lines have significantly improved.

Last year's draft was very good.

Drafted a HOF player in Barkley. And has added some good skill position players.

RE: Eli - had a good second half of last season when the pieces around him got better. And, insists Eli still has game, which is true until proven otherwise.

Jones pick - time will tell. Shurmur was on board with it which is something many people step right over.

He's made some mistakes Omameh, Stewart - but the question was whether he was doing a good job, not if he was perfect.

XMan and the linebackers will be a good indicator re: his ability to spot talent at all positions.

There was a lot to fix, but a couple of things I think he checked off on the to do list.

1. Run the ball
He has completely changed the O Line. Solder, Hernandez, Hilapio, Zeitler, Remmers. He has Saquon Barkley. This group is the key to next season. O Line will remain a priority in the future.

2. Stop the Run

Hill, Tomlinson, Lawrence, McIntosh are a young but talented group. ILB Ogletree, Goodson and Connelly, are good tacklers and compliment each other. Peppers, Love, Baker and Beal can all Tackle well.

3. Rush the Passer

Golden, Carter, Ximines, Martin are a decent group and I admit I really wanted Josh Allen this last draft and didn�t think he would be there with the 6th pick. However, pass rush is a combo of scheme and coverage since QB are getting rid of the ball much quicker in today�s game. With Bettchers aggressive scheme and the young talented DB�s, this will be a group effort.

4. Adding a young QB of the future

Jones is the guy. I�m happy they have committed to a QB and Jones seems to check many boxes for the eventual difficult transition from Eli. Time will tell but the Giants will need to develop Jones and surround him with talent for him to have success.

5. Culture

The key word with Gettlemen has been culture and calling people Adults. There seems to be a common theme with each and every roster addition.

14 players remain from the 2017 roster. The locker room had been flushed. This is a very different team and I am excited to see this team compete.

This maybe Eli�s last season and with a power running game and balance from the skill positions, we can see from the end of last year what this team can do on offense. Shepard, Tate, Engram and Barkley is a solid group of targets. I think Eli has a solid season and we may even have a winning record come December.

but he certainly has some convictions and is not afraid to act on them to try to improve the team. With that said, he�s owned up to some mistakes, most notably cutting Omameh, after signing him the same year. I believe the OBJ move was an organizational decision, from owners down to Head Coach. OBJ was a generational talent with a 5 cent brain. His antics on and off the field were more then all we�re willing to accept and his trade became part of the new cultural rebuild in the locker room. I think his drafts here have been pretty darn good. Time will tell, but based on projections, they could have a decent talent pool of young players. Obviously, there�s still work to be done, but I think he�s addressed a lot of weaknesses on this team already. The Jones pick will be either his undoing or his claim to fame. I, for one, am pretty excited to see what these guys can do in Pre-Season. This is clearly DGs roster right now and we�ll see how it goes over the next few years. He�s turned the roster over pretty significantly and I only see him adding pieces from here on out.

The Giants needed to be rebuilt. Of course he made mistakes or gambles that didn't work out, but that comes with the job, hoping that you are making more right than wrong decisions. The last two drafts have been outstanding. Personally I would have not drafted Jones but instead traded down and grabbed a first rd pick in the next draft where next season's QB draft is going to be max filled with a lot of good QBs. I think Shurmur influenced the Daniel Jones pick and Gentlemen had to trust his HC on this. The picks on D this last draft especially Lawrence and the CBs, plus Beal, will significantly improve our D. Golden Tate is a proven competitor. OG Zeitler is a major addition. Our team is moving in the right direction and I'm glad Gentlemen is in charge. Mara certainly influences Giant decisions AND in no way is he a Daniel Snyder or a Jerry Jones.

Last year's draft was strong. And I like that he is willing to cut bait quickly when he misfires (like with Omameh)

One would be foolish to try to judge this year's draft before anyone has taken the field.

On the other hand, his moves with veterans have been poor. I'll grant that he got good value for Stewart, Omameh were dumb signings, and Ogletree seems overpriced. And I am convinced that had we started Jones (who at least knows how to call a protection) instead of trading him for a 7th we would have won at least a couple more games early.

And the Beckham situation is beyond ridiculous. I don't think you should trade a HOF talent in his prime for a couple draft picks, plus a player who has, so far, been at best an average safety. But if you are thinking you might do that, you sure as anything don't sign him to a contact with so much up front money the year before. Nor can I buy the "they want to build around Barkley" argument. If your offensive coaches can't build an offense around two HOF talents at the same time, you need new coaches.

He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross.

They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern.

But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place.

In comment 14455898 Mike in Boston said:

Quote:

Last year's draft was strong. And I like that he is willing to cut bait quickly when he misfires (like with Omameh) One would be foolish to try to judge this year's draft before anyone has taken the field. On the other hand, his moves with veterans have been poor. I'll grant that he got good value for Stewart, Omameh were dumb signings, and Ogletree seems overpriced. And I am convinced that had we started Jones (who at least knows how to call a protection) instead of trading him for a 7th we would have won at least a couple more games early. And the Beckham situation is beyond ridiculous. I don't think you should trade a HOF talent in his prime for a couple draft picks, plus a player who has, so far, been at best an average safety. But if you are thinking you might do that, you sure as anything don't sign him to a contact with so much up front money the year before. Nor can I buy the "they want to build around Barkley" argument. If your offensive coaches can't build an offense around two HOF talents at the same time, you need new coaches.

Ooops, that was to say "He got good value for Vernon."

His legacy will depend on how peppers and Jones perform

would give a rats a$$ whether whiny and self-entitled beat reporters like Jordan Ranaan or Kim Jones feel slighted by DG... Let alone the know-nothing sensationalist buffoons in the national media

1) What good team drops its only QB before they have another one for sure?

2) Name what specific players the cap savings would generate in 2019 that was so essential the same was not available in 2020?

3) Name what good team puts itself over a barrel with good FA by asking them to join a team without a QB?

poorly applied Monday morning complaints frequently repeated are not decisions which have to be made in a time frame...they are just endless foolish and feeble complaints (and definitely not insights about how football decisions have to be made).

How anyone can tell about DG until the end of 2020 is beyond me. Most of all, we do not know about his HC or new QB. He could get all the rest perfect (which he has not) and miss on those and the sum would be more flopping around for years. Or conversely, get those two right and the rest is about time.

Lastly, as in boxing, everyone has a good plan until they get hit. One key injury this year and next years FA signing period could put us right back into long term cap hell competing in a narrow talent pool for a few positions and the draft could turn into a risky "need" draft"

This is a major reconstruction type of project we are witnessing. We will be a more physical and competitive team when it's done.

it's a results business. What he has done to date is extremely fundamental.

1. trading present value for future assets (jpp, obj)
2. moved out highly paid veterans who didn't fit (vernon, snacks)
3. gotten younger across the roster and added talent at high value areas
4. signed (and kept) some stop gap veterans who fit the culture he's looking to build (Eli, Jenkins, Ogletree, Solder)

I don't know if Shurmur is a good OC/mediocre HC like Norv Turner or a long time OC who just needed a chance as a HC like Bruce Arians. I don't know if Lawrence, Baker, and Peppers are going to form the core of a good defense going forward or not. I don't know if Daniel Jones is going to be a positive impact starter for 10+ years. I like enough about all of those mentioned to have hope, but nobody knows for sure, and among some other things those 5 evaluations led to the most critical decisions Gettleman has made to date, so quite obviously their outcomes are going to be key to evaluating Gettleman. Barkley was also a critical decision and I think he got that one right, so I guess he's got at least 1 point up on the board.

Fastest turn around talent wise I�ve ever seen as a Giants fan. Crushed the OBJ trade. Made a good trade for Vernon. He�s drafts have been excellent. Improved virtually every unit on the team. Got a generational talent in Saquon. Got our QB if the future. Good FA acquisitions. Hitting on all cylinders.

The worst thing to happen in this current charade was Mara telling Reese fix this or else in 2016. Reese then promptly breaks with a decade of financial prudence, brings on what proved to be an expensive group that supplemented the talent, when a rebuild was needed. The core of the team was broken, and a talent infusion only buoyed a season.

Mara should have let Reese rebuild from bottom up or fired him. Frankly he should have just fired him.

I like the vast majority of Gettleman's moves. I like getting younger and cheaper. Not all of these moves will work, but getting out of them is easy and Gettleman clearly likes being flexible.

Even if Gettleman has a really high rate of success with the rookies, some won't pan out and there will be holes this year. That's reality, and I think some fans are going to underwhelmed with how shakey the season goes.

Triggering ESPN and fat Mike into unhinged rants, so must be doing something. Never recall Reese getting this much hate in his long tenure. Meh it's the vile mass media promulgating their false narratives, we should be used to it by now.

In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place.

They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him.

It all looks good to me.

Gettleman in the immediate picture is just how good a value Zeitler and Peppers are. Those trades were something he had control over and where he targeted specific players. If those two have impact and staying power it's going to have significant impact in key areas that needed improvement.

His drafting seems good but is much harder to evaluate immediately. The fact is if Jones is a franchise QB then he has knocked it out of the park.

I like the way he's kicking ass personnel wise. Some of his moves were shocking, but when put into perspective made good sense.

Big George -- If Big George sticks and makes an impact it will also be significant because the Giants haven't picked an Oline man that could make an impact below round 2 since Deihl and Seubert

DBs -- if the backfield is set with the influx he drafted this year that will also be significant

LBs -- Gettleman seems to understand LBs, Pierce being his big win there in the past, and it's clear he's betting on Ogletree to repeat that formula, but he's also already put more talent and oomph into LB than the last regime was ever able to.

O & D Lines -- if the Giants rank high in run stopping and implement a consistent time eating power run game -- this will show that Gettleman can implement what he says he will implement

If the offensive line can can generate the option and play action properly - that will also be a significant improvement -- they haven't been able to do that in some time.

If the Giants can generate a pass rush with Carter, Ogletree, Peppers, Golden and Williams and all the above pans out then this team will have made a complete turn around.

Gettleman also has at least another couple of drafts to get it right as well as a healthy budget starting with the next season.

I'm optimistic and think the Gettleman is doing a good job, and that there are more changes yet to come. He's charged up the team -- you can feel it and sense it right now and that also seems like a big positive.

The Jones pick was either singularly gutty and great or utterly stupid and a waste of prime resource. I don't feel the same way about Lauletta. In the third round you can take a crap shoot if the player exceeds your ranking for the spot. I can write how I feel about Jones -- that I love the way he handles adversity -- but ultimately we won't know what we have in him for some time. Now if, for some great scheme of god, Eli takes what Gettleman has given him and makes another run at the cup, then I really won't worry about evaluating his pick of Jones. I give the GM a pass for that and trust he finds a good way to the future and thank him for making another run possible. Is that likely? I don't know, but I still want it to happen.

who haven't a clue how to build a winning football team and focus on individual players - the "shiniest objects" in the window.

I am optimistic that Gettleman is 100% on the right track. If we can avoid the injury bug and Jones turns out to be a young version of Eli (maybe even better), he'll be adored by everyone.

On the other hand, if injuries take out our key players and Jones falls on his face, DG will be tarred and feathered and driven out of NY.

Personally, I really like the guy and believe I can see what his plans are. And they appear to be genius moves as I see it.

i don't actually believe you win in the modern nfl by running the ball, so the barkley pick, for all his talent, seems the wrong way to rebuild a team that needed help everywhere. i think we will regret the odell trade for a decade. and i dont think much of most of his big ticket acquisitions - solder, ogletree, k martin, and omameh did not return value to this point. we'll see about zeitler, bethesda, peppers and tate. a good first draft, though it helps having the second pick. this year its waits and see. let's actually win some games before we talk about his supposed success.

I agree.

Fans cannot underestimate the value of the trade for Kevin Zeitler. Its absolutely HUGE.

The toughest job for any NFL scout or team is to find qualified offensive linemen. There just are not enough of them. (remember-we have a shot putter trying to make the roster as a LG)

Take a look at where the Colts were a few seasons ago. So they use a first on a Center in '17 and get their LG and RT in Rounds 1 & 2 in '18. And now everybody is talking about how good the Colts will be.

If you look at this years draft, many "experts" say a top team draft was by the Houston Texans. Why? Well they took their future LT in Round 1 and their future RT in Round 2.

We just watched the Washington Redskins draft Haskins in Round 1 to be the new face of their franchise. But what's in front of him? In the Washington OTAs, Ereck Flowers has been their starting RG !!! And after a week of practicing, the Redskins just decided they needed to add Adam Bisnowaty to their roster.

You can discuss all the Gettleman moves to date (good and bad) ad nausem, but the fact that he was able to get Kevin Zeitler to our O-line is by far the most significant move heading into 2019.

Great job 👍.

89 Madden rating. Peppers should be fine, a + player rising 82 rating, same as Collins.

I like this from an article ddawg posted.

The Giants� offensive linemen were warming up one day in early May by tossing medicine balls at the far end of the practice field. Then suddenly one of the large weighted cylinders rocketed five feet higher and 10 yards further than the rest.

What was that?� an incredulous reporter said.

�You saw that?� a Giants staffer said with a smile.

�Yeah, who the heck was that?� the reporter asked.

Kevin,� the staffer replied.

Kevin is Kevin Zeitler, the Giants� imposing new 6-4, 315-pound starting right guard with a body-armor build who would have made a good Game of Thrones battlefield extra.

In comment 14455820 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

His first draft was outstanding: Barkley, Hernandez, BJ, Lorenzo are all impact starters this season. He's turned over an amazing amount of roster players (see other threads for details). Anyone bashing him not for having immediate success doesn't understand football. It always takes 2-3 years even when you are doing the right things.

Sorry man but you're the one that doesn't know much about football. In today's NFL teams go from bad to good (and visa versa) in just one year on a regular basis. In 2017 the Rams went from 4-13 to 11-5. In 2017 the eagles went from 7-9 to 13-3 and a Super Bowl win. Crazy Dave took a team that was one year removed from an 11-5 season and won 5 games his first year. This year Vegas is predicting 6 wins. And Gettleman had the number 2 and number 6 picks in the draft to work with. That's failure with a capital F. What he's done reminds me of the Allie Sherman fiasco in the early 60's. Hopefully it won't take us 20 years to recover like it did back then.

He came in telling us he wanted to upgrade the talent level and overhaul the culture. Time will tell if he was successful, but you can�t say that he isn�t trying to execute his plan. I was a little suspect at his hiring - I was concerned about his long ties to the organization - but I always thought he had a keen eye for linemen.

While in CAR, DG was able to find under the radar OL and DL contributors. It is what has been severely lacking in the past decade. While the jury is still out, his drafts appear to be really strong. The one critique I would add is that some of his FA signings have not panned out.

In comment 14455949 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

I agree. Fans cannot underestimate the value of the trade for Kevin Zeitler. Its absolutely HUGE. The toughest job for any NFL scout or team is to find qualified offensive linemen. There just are not enough of them. (remember-we have a shot putter trying to make the roster as a LG) Take a look at where the Colts were a few seasons ago. So they use a first on a Center in '17 and get their LG and RT in Rounds 1 & 2 in '18. And now everybody is talking about how good the Colts will be. If you look at this years draft, many "experts" say a top team draft was by the Houston Texans. Why? Well they took their future LT in Round 1 and their future RT in Round 2. We just watched the Washington Redskins draft Haskins in Round 1 to be the new face of their franchise. But what's in front of him? In the Washington OTAs, Ereck Flowers has been their starting RG !!! And after a week of practicing, the Redskins just decided they needed to add Adam Bisnowaty to their roster. You can discuss all the Gettleman moves to date (good and bad) ad nausem, but the fact that he was able to get Kevin Zeitler to our O-line is by far the most significant move heading into 2019.

Agreed the impact Zietler will likely have is falling unrecognized on many.

I think he is doing an amazing job considering the salary cap restraints he's had to deal with.

And another intangible that gets routinely underestimated is culture. I think he has transformed the locker room culture wise and that will pay huge dividends.

In comment 14455941 gidiefor said:

Quote:

Gettleman in the immediate picture is just how good a value Zeitler and Peppers are. Those trades were something he had control over and where he targeted specific players. If those two have impact and staying power it's going to have significant impact in key areas that needed improvement. His drafting seems good but is much harder to evaluate immediately. The fact is if Jones is a franchise QB then he has knocked it out of the park. I like the way he's kicking ass personnel wise. Some of his moves were shocking, but when put into perspective made good sense. Big George -- If Big George sticks and makes an impact it will also be significant because the Giants haven't picked an Oline man that could make an impact below round 2 since Deihl and Seubert DBs -- if the backfield is set with the influx he drafted this year that will also be significant LBs -- Gettleman seems to understand LBs, Pierce being his big win there in the past, and it's clear he's betting on Ogletree to repeat that formula, but he's also already put more talent and oomph into LB than the last regime was ever able to. O & D Lines -- if the Giants rank high in run stopping and implement a consistent time eating power run game -- this will show that Gettleman can implement what he says he will implement If the offensive line can can generate the option and play action properly - that will also be a significant improvement -- they haven't been able to do that in some time. If the Giants can generate a pass rush with Carter, Ogletree, Peppers, Golden and Williams and all the above pans out then this team will have made a complete turn around. Gettleman also has at least another couple of drafts to get it right as well as a healthy budget starting with the next season. I'm optimistic and think the Gettleman is doing a good job, and that there are more changes yet to come. He's charged up the team -- you can feel it and sense it right now and that also seems like a big positive. The Jones pick was either singularly gutty and great or utterly stupid and a waste of prime resource. I don't feel the same way about Lauletta. In the third round you can take a crap shoot if the player exceeds your ranking for the spot. I can write how I feel about Jones -- that I love the way he handles adversity -- but ultimately we won't know what we have in him for some time. Now if, for some great scheme of god, Eli takes what Gettleman has given him and makes another run at the cup, then I really won't worry about evaluating his pick of Jones. I give the GM a pass for that and trust he finds a good way to the future and thank him for making another run possible. Is that likely? I don't know, but I still want it to happen.

This is a really good take. Agree on pretty much all points. And I do believe Eli has another run in him now that better fitting pieces, improved OL and system has been put in place.

But long term, say 3-4 years from now I�d think he would be phased out. I�m not in love with his long term outlook here as I question his loyalty or approach to older veterans. He seems quick to the draw but maybe that�s a good thing too.

For now he�s fine, maybe even terrific. We needed a true scout that can build this team back up from soup to nuts and focus on the low hanging fruit variety of talent in these drafts. DG knows how to draft players that can play at the NFL level. He isn�t taking many risks with these draft picks. See player, draft player. Forget about positional value or any of that crap just take the guy that will turn into an NFL pro.

In comment 14455935 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said: Quote: He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place. They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him. It all looks good to me.

I don't fully agree with Homer/ his tone but I don't agree with you either. We beat 4 backup QBs this past year. Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were but were close as if they were wins.

Also- some of the posters that complain about the media have lost a certain degree of reality. They've let the media enrage them to the point that they refuse to think clear. SO what they hate him. If he wins he'll be a "colorful" GM. He's got to win. Right now they don't like him - so why should so many here care? He's not getting fired this year. Instead what you have is this yeah rah rah cheerleading team mentality from some posters. They just don't want to hear anything negative.

Until the team wins and your GM lies (how much is lying and how much is incompetence?) and acts like an ass then what;s the big deal if the media hates him? The bottomline is we all want to see wins. I don't want the media to kiss his ass. HE hasn't earned that right yet.

In comment 14455981 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14455935 PatersonPlank said: Quote: In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said: Quote: He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place. They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him. It all looks good to me. I don't fully agree with Homer/ his tone but I don't agree with you either. We beat 4 backup QBs this past year. Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were but were close as if they were wins. Also- some of the posters that complain about the media have lost a certain degree of reality. They've let the media enrage them to the point that they refuse to think clear. SO what they hate him. If he wins he'll be a "colorful" GM. He's got to win. Right now they don't like him - so why should so many here care? He's not getting fired this year. Instead what you have is this yeah rah rah cheerleading team mentality from some posters. They just don't want to hear anything negative. Until the team wins and your GM lies (how much is lying and how much is incompetence?) and acts like an ass then what;s the big deal if the media hates him? The bottomline is we all want to see wins. I don't want the media to kiss his ass. HE hasn't earned that right yet.

Meant to say

"Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were LOST but were close as if they were wins."

Good job so far on balance by D.G.

As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning?

Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax.

...understanding how what is happening with the team is somehow not generating a great deal of excitement for fans.

Two thumbs up so far!

At the end of the day, it will come down to Jones. If Jones is the goods, DG will be a hero.

But outside of that, it's too early. He's had 2 drafts. Let's see how last years players develop and let's see this years players play a game before judging them.

Typically you need 3 years to makeover a roster. DG has one more offseason to do so. He will have a bevy of draft picks again (they will get I believe at least 2 comp picks with one being a 3 for Collins) and have a shit ton of cap space going into this next offseason. And next year Jones will step into the starting role. Next year is when we can really judge DG.

When he arrived he looked over this roster and realized it needed to be completely gutted. Years of Reese/Ross bad decisions littered the roster and it needed a purge.

Gettleman knew this would take at least two years and that it would not be well received by the media and a large portion of the fan base. He did it anyway because he believed that it needed to be done for the long term benefit of this franchise.

There are only 14 players remaining from when Gettleman's arrival. That is a complete overhaul. It takes time to evaluate each player and how they best fit into the schemes. In just two offseasons Gettleman has completely rebuilt the offensive line and on paper it appears to be the best in years.

The Kevin Zeitler acquisition has been strangely overlooked by many. Here is one of the best RG's in football who is also a great fit in the locker room. RG has been a weakness since Snee retired. Remmers will likely start but his arrival will light a fire under Wheeler. If Wheeler is going to prove that he is the long term answer at RT it will happen this year.

The defense should be much improved and they are only a good pass rusher away from being a very good defense. If Golden resembles the player he was 2016 then this should be a top 10-15 defense this season.

Gettleman's reputation here will be tied to the development of Daniel Jones but regardless of that outcome he deserves credit for bringing in many good young players.

Saquon Barkley, Will Hernandez, B.J. Hill, Dexter Lawrence, Lorenzo Carter, Sam Beal, Deandre Baker, Julian Love, Grant Haley, Jabrill Peppers, and R.J. McIntosh should all be apart of the core moving forward.

Corey Coleman, Darius Slayton, Chris Slayton, Alex Wesley, Corey Ballentine, Ryan Connelly, Oshane Ximines, C.J. Conrad, Josiah Tauaefa, Sean Chandler, Jake Carlock, Nick Gates, Evan Brown, James O'Hagan, Paul Adams, Asafo-Adjei, Austin Droogsma, and Eric Dungey all have talent and have the potential to surprise and develop into solid contributors.

There is still a lot of work left to do for Gettleman but so far I think he has done a good job when you consider the mess he inherited. Next offseason the main focus should be to add a pass rusher, a #1 WR for Jones, and another OT even if Wheeler locks down the RT job. Solder is getting older and they need to have a potential replacement in house before he breaks down.

FS, ILB, C, and DL depth could all be needs as well.

In comment 14455997 djm said:

Quote:

As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning? Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax.

C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?"

The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves.

The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid.

In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern."

DG drafted Barkley knowing Eli was toast. Thus, no need to keep OBJ but felt Gettlemen erred on signing him then not trying to find more trading partners for Beckham. Not trading LC before last season and letting him leave for just draft compensation seems short-sighted. All of this hinges on Daniel Jones being successful as early as this year. Keeping Eli around for tutoring Jones for one year works, provided DJ plays by November. Defense will be a sieve, no pass rush. Lastly, not a fan of Shurmer but I think good head coaches/GMs know ownership meddles too much at the Meadowlands. Giants have a culture problem best solved by the team being sold to a Steve Ballmer type of owner.

Lets see what happens when the real bullets start flying. Keeping the faith myself.

In comment 14456067 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning? Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax. C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern."

Nope.

In comment 14456082 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 14456067 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern." Nope.

Good-- we can agree to disagree. That's a good thing. We'll see how season turns out. And I think many of us agree that 2020 season is the key year.

He hasn't been perfect by any means but at least he sees a mistake and tries to fix it and not try to prove he was right. Cutting guys that he signed as Gas shows he is adaptable.

His handling of the Daniel Jones pick was terrible. He should have simply said he was the best player on our board and that's why we took him.

The drafts are too soon to tell. I was against the Barkley pick last year but you can't argue that he is a Superstar.

You have to believe that in the 2 years the roster is much improved. Still a long way to go.

A lot is riding on the QB. It looks like a desperate move and we probably could have gotten him at 17. Jones has to become a top 10 QB in this league or the Giants have to be a strong playoff team in year 3 for DG to be looked on favorably in the future. He passed on a lot of QBs last year and took one that many thought could be had later so that is his defining moment.

No one is going to be perfect but I would rather have someone admit a mistake and cut ties than try to prove he is right.

which makes it hard to judge some of his moves objectively. All of us are hoping like hell that he knows what he is doing.

Personally, I think I would have more confidence if he talked less, instead of always coming off as the smartest guy in the room. Never thought I'd want anyone to be a little more like Reese, but I do think DG has fallen in love with the cameras and his own voice. Every time he says something, the media is quick to point out prior inconsistent statements. When this happens, unless you are just a blind loyalist you have to wonder if there really is some blueprint for the rebuild or if the guy is just winging it as he goes along.

and glad to see the replacement of Reese.
I wonder how many of DG's critics could do the job any better.

In comment 14455841 bw in dc said:

Quote:

But I think Gettleman has chosen a very risky path for the future. Foregoing the huge cap savings by keeping 38 year old Eli, instead of investing that money elsewhere to further improve the team, and drafting the riskiest QB in this draft at #6.

I dont think he took the riskiest QB .... he actually took the guy with the highest floor. He took the durable guy, the guy you'll stand tough in the pocket, he took the guy who has a good mental approach to the game, He took the guy who can definitely run a WCO (short and Med passes make up most of the playbook). The arm strength has been hashed to death and far as we can see the truth is he has a decent arm can make all the throws but does not have a cannon. History has shown a accurate QB with avg to slight above avg arm strength can it done. Can he learn the O and be very efficient in it and make the tactical deep strike when called upon?

As for the D ... we took care of the DL and 2ndary. LBs are still a work in progress. The plan is we can mix man, zone and man/zone at will allowing Bettcher to blitz and cause chaos with his scheme and play-calling.

Eli needs to now spread the ball to the open guy and Jones takes notes and steps in next season.

Next FA season we have money for WR(s), LB and younger RT ... not to mention the draft.

Lets just season how it all plays out.

right here:

Quote:

The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors.

You bring in three decent FA's - proven players and you have people referring to them as complete blunders.

It's hard to discuss when that's the type of reasoning that the board is pelted with constantly. Both Solder and Ogletree played decently last year - and yet you have some here who characterize their play on the level with Flowers and Unga.

Instead of having a nuanced conversation on the respective value of the players and their role in solidifying a roster, they are called complete blunders. One of them without even playing a fucking down. But then again - one guy had 5 INT's, finally showed that a NYG LB can have aptitude in coverage and he gets shit on too.

Name any NYG OL when last years FA period began? Flowers and Hart? Oh there were none?

Name a better LT at a lower price that was available?

Name the several available good OL for the same cap space?

Notice the difference when he was playing badly ( early in the year) vs later and tell us the position is not worth spending on?

Tell me which better LT was available this year at a lower cap space?

Im not claiming Solder was good or a bargain. But he was a choice and there was a market for him and as a GM you have to fill the space. What are you going to do on day one of the FA period.

Notice there were not any LTs deserving on the number 2 slot? So we know the complaint. We know Solder is not great.

What's the solution?

Its not an easy job is it?


Btw, I completely agree that the Stewart signing was just a flat out mistake



Its amazing there are only 32 GM's...anyone can do a better job

Ogletree is a really good athlete and catches the ball well, but I'd be careful to connect interceptions and pass coverage, especially at linebacker where many of the opportunities to snag the ball aren't a product of coverage, but position.

He had his share of bad looks in coverage, gave up his share of TDs, and Collins strongly intimated missed assignments at the LB position caused a lot of the bad plays last year.

Ogletree is the 3rd highest paid player at his position. I don't think he's anywhere near that in terms of return. I think he's closer to a middle of the pack type inside linebacker.

And that's the heart of my concern with Ogletree, Solder, Jenkins, Tate and frankly Manning. It's not that they are overpaid, it's they are in my estimate wildly overpaid.

In a year where Gettleman has done really well shedding bad contracts and getting younger, I don't like these contracts.

I understand you want a mix of vets to buoy learning and work ethic, I just think you can get average vet players at average cost.

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Name a better LT at a lower price that was available?

In hindsight Solder's previous employer didn't overbid, stayed patient, waited for the draft to play out, and acquired a younger better player via trade.

Conventional wisdom might have said the Pats were in their championship window, so they should have been more impatient and overpaid for the best player on the market at the time, but of course they didn't.

The what would Belichick gets tiring, but in this case the Giants and Pats literally bid for the same guy, and the Pats just unsurprisingly played it far better.

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Name any NYG OL when last years FA period began? Flowers and Hart? Oh there were none? Name a better LT at a lower price that was available? Name the several available good OL for the same cap space?

You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart.

You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby.

Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be.

What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG.

Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes?

In comment 14456193 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said: Quote: Name a better LT at a lower price that was available? In hindsight Solder's previous employer didn't overbid, stayed patient, waited for the draft to play out, and acquired a younger better player via trade. Conventional wisdom might have said the Pats were in their championship window, so they should have been more impatient and overpaid for the best player on the market at the time, but of course they didn't. The what would Belichick gets tiring, but in this case the Giants and Pats literally bid for the same guy, and the Pats just unsurprisingly played it far better.

Yet ofc another reason some will excuse DG and just bury their heads in the sand that it's okay to massively overspend for an aging LT even though GMEn are in complete rebuild mode.

Mind-boggling.

Thank God we have an older LT on our rebuild team that help drive our team to a terrific 5-11 record. We have so much to be thankful for.

C'mon for some posters-- he made a mistake. HE can overcome it with draft picks and FA over next year or so and if Jones is good it will be fine -- bUT -- AS OF THIS MOMENT-- THIS MASSIVE OVERPAY was INCREDIBLY STUPID. He should have went after two younger linemen and not overpay for an aging one and a lwo quality one (Omameh.). It's called COMMON SENSE.

In comment 14456210 giantstock said:

Quote:

You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart. You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby. Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be. What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG. Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes?

LOL, they could have had Hubbard and Fulton for the same price? Chris Hubbard signed a 5 year 37.5 million dollar contract last offseason and the Browns have been debated taking the cap hit and releasing him because he was awful last year at RT. If the Giants drafted Braden Smith they wouldn't have filled the hole at LG.

Tyrell Crosby had a whopping two starts for the Lions last season and it was only because of injury. As of now he is still a backup on a line that feautres Kenny Wiggins at RG.

Are we really comparing the choices the Gm with the most talented roster drafted at his spot with the choices the GM with arguably the least talent had?

And expecting us to miss the miss?

Again, when your team sucks and has holes all over the place...no matter who you pick there are still easy second guesses elsewhere on the roster and under the cap.

I think the book on DG is still out but I do think we have to evaluate the whole book and not under critique or over.

But that's just imo

Our oline was an abject disaster, had to go shopping while starving. I knew what we were getting in Solder, an above average LT, and given the sit, I was resigned to signing him.

In comment 14456089 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14456082 djm said: Quote: In comment 14456067 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern." Nope. Good-- we can agree to disagree. That's a good thing. We'll see how season turns out. And I think many of us agree that 2020 season is the key year.

Yes!

Time to compete again.

1. To have a good OL you need good players. Teams that have good players generally try to keep them. So 1 year turnarounds require luck in that you need a few long shots to work out.

2. To the point of others above Solder and Zeitler are both among the best available players who have changed teams at their respective positions the past couple years. Hernandez too factoring in draft picks. Are they good enough to lead the turnaround? We�ll see but they give us a shot.

3. They are rolling the dice on C and RT again and though it�s to a lesser degree than last year it could bite them. They like the cheaper options on the roster, but they had some options they passed on - including overpaying Daryl Williams or drafting their choice of OL at #17. Defense was an even bigger need so if the value was with a better player on D it�s certainly justifiable - but that doesn�t mean it was the right call.

On Braden Smith so your issue is with the team's doctors not the GM.

In comment 14456221 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14456210 giantstock said: Quote: You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart. You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby. Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be. What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG. Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes? LOL, they could have had Hubbard and Fulton for the same price? Chris Hubbard signed a 5 year 37.5 million dollar contract last offseason and the Browns have been debated taking the cap hit and releasing him because he was awful last year at RT. If the Giants drafted Braden Smith they wouldn't have filled the hole at LG. Tyrell Crosby had a whopping two starts for the Lions last season and it was only because of injury. As of now he is still a backup on a line that feautres Kenny Wiggins at RG.

SOldier making 4 yr $62m
Omameh signed 3 yrs $15m
Stewart sighned --e stiamte gaurantted $3m 2 years so say $1.5M


Hubbard gets 5 years $37.5m
Fulton gets 4 years $28m.


You can see the money fits. DG had the opportunity to offer more. Instead on a team devoid of talent he stupidly went after one above average player instead of two albeit lesser at tackle in 2018 BUT YOU ARE REBUILDING IN 2018. The better Soldier is doesn;t outweigh what he'll sink to when GMEN "ARE READY TO COMPETE." You shouldn't be "comparing" Hubbard vs Soldier but you should be comparing Hubbard AND Fulton vs Soldier AND Omameh.

As for Hubbard - you are making a misleading statement. I'm sure it's not intentional. Just like with Soldier he IMPROVEd as the season went on SO DID HUBBARD. So much so that the Browns didn't feel a need to replace him this year.

SO we can "excuse" $15m aging LT for his crummy 1st half but if Hubbard has a bad 1st half he's a bust? Well we know that that isn't true, right? Per the link below we know that your statement about Browns looking release was thrown out the window based on his performance around the 2nd half, correct? SO oyur post is a bit misleading, correct?

***We have to realize the Browns are looking to win (no more rebuild), right? SO if your point is still valid that Hubbard was so awful all of last year, why have they kept him? ANd with the attached link stating Hubbard is improving, you want to just ignore it? The Browns didn't trade or draft a RT to replace Hubbard and you just want to ignore it?

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Joe-Thomas-Chris-Hubbard-improving-Browns-right-tackle-126371293/

You asked how would play LG? Fulton could be the LG. He has played LG with KC.

And Crosby would be the backup instead of Wheeler. Crosby was mentioned because of potential. Wheeler is a backup and will be nothing more than that. DO you agree?

On a macro level I think he's solid, he's a good talent evaluator and I agree with his inside-out roster building philosophy. On a micro level he's a little lacking, I don't think he's the most forward-thinking GM and he's left a lot of value out there in some of his choices. I also feel he completely botched his initial roster evaluation but gets a little slack because he pulled the cord early.

If he keeps hitting in the draft, the smaller stuff won't really matter as much, so it's definitely a wait and see.

Lots of terrific posts. I, too, am optimistic about the future based on roster moves and think DG has done a good job.

DG used draft picks and FA signings to get CAR and its pre-DG stars to the Super Bowl in year 3. I hope he gets at least that long in NY to complete the turnaround.

The youth movement is clear. Based on spotrac.com figures on existing contracts, the Giants are the 21st youngest in the league this year and 4th youngest next year. That translates to lower cost base contract deals for the next 3-5 years. Roster construction through the draft provides financial flexibility.

I expect a fairly conservative approach to FA spending until the verdict on Daniel Jones is in.

While I expect Jones to succeed, assume for the sake of argument that he doesn't. Assume the worst case scenario and at the end of the 2020 season, it's clear DJ is more Oliver than Andrew Luck. The Giants will have to pivot, but the roster and salary cap should be in a much, much better place to withstand such a blow which I think is worth mentioning as a credit to DG.

Under the worst case scenario, I'd compare the Giants to the Seahawks 2010-2012 pre Wilson, the Ravens pre-Jackson and the Bears pre-Trubisky - above average foundations waiting for the right QB. The Giants didn't have that foundation last year and may not have it yet.

The 3 drafts in place at the end of the 2020 season should be that solid foundation, regardless of how Jones plays. The picks on defense already (Hill, McIntosh, Lawrence, Carter, Ximines, Beal, Baker, Love) with 2-3 more next year means the foundation is well on its way. Those 3 drafts lessen a blown pick in the worst case scenario and do not set the franchise back 5 years as many argue.

Another benefit of selecting Jones this year instead of next is that should the Giants struggle this year and end up with a high pick in a QB-heavy draft, they can leverage the pick to a QB-needy team for additional picks (including a potential second 2021 1st rounder as insurance against a Jones failure in 2020).

Of course, if Jones succeeds, that's great!

A long way to say I think what DG is doing to the roster reflects that he's doing a good job.

In comment 14456255 JoeFootball said:

Quote:

On Braden Smith so your issue is with the team's doctors not the GM.

You have a link with that? Was it a red flag or a minor concern? I don't recall SY mentioning anything about SMith having this red flag. Matter of fact I found his review and saw no mention of red flag from him and I looked in the past and saw no red flags.

Matter of fact I read how Colts had big-time concerns from prior years in which their OLINE couldn't stay healthy. SO they are going to draft a guy who had injury concerns?

David Diehl said that several teams had a red flag on Smith the week after the 2018 draft on sirius XM. Who gave him this info, the Giants. No link just paying attention.

In comment 14456288 JoeFootball said:

Quote:

David Diehl said that several teams had a red flag on Smith the week after the 2018 draft on sirius XM. Who gave him this info, the Giants. No link just paying attention.

I don't see it anywhere. I definitely don't doubt you heard it. But I think it was probable someone gave him a line of shit/ over-exaggerated the issue. The GMEn under this regime don't tell the truth on anything and I can't find anything to collaborate that he had a red flag.

This could be the same thing as "I know for a fact two teams would've taken Jones . . ."

Colts didn't seem to have an issue with him and they had huge concerns with their OL injury issues.

If it is another invented "Giants way" of being "conservative" then that's on the GM.

is more conservative than other teams. They very well could be wrong, just stating why they made their choice.

In comment 14456294 JoeFootball said:

Quote:

is more conservative than other teams. They very well could be wrong, just stating why they made their choice.

I just don't think David Diehl really knew. Or he was fed a line. Per below you can see he was stunned with Daniel Jones. WHy should we believe he had any inside information on the giants last year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCFdzA6IXc

Do you think he got that info from the Cardinals?

In comment 14456296 JoeFootball said:

Quote:

Do you think he got that info from the Cardinals?

Did you open the link?

He had no idea. I'll ask AGAIN.

HE had NO IDeA that they were taking Jones this year. WHy should ANYONE believe he had inside knowledge last year IF IT IS OBVIOUS He DIDN"T HAVE IT THIS YEAR? How much did his inside knowledge get him to know who they were choosing at 6? LISTEN TO IT. He had NO IDEA. He IS SHOCKED. HE IS SHOCKED.

You can't provide NAY confirmation from any other source. ANd Diehl is getting his information from an organization that BLATANTLY LIES.

SO he was an "INSIDER" lats year but he is nothing more than a "MEdIA GUY" this year? C'mon.

His comments post 2018 draft about Smith. Again they think he has a medical red flag. The future will prove who's correct.

It's too early to tell. One full season isn't enough time.

In comment 14456300 JoeFootball said:

Quote:

His comments post 2018 draft about Smith. Again they think he has a medical red flag. The future will prove who's correct.

Again it does. You're treating Dielhl like he's Mara's right-hand guy. There is NO collaboration of what Diehl heard. He heard from an organization that lies at any moment. You can't find one other source that questions SMith's health.

Yes we will. But as of right now a team like the Colts who had major concerns of their OL's health they take him, you have no confirmation that SMith has injury issues, the organization lies on a dime, yet your only reply is "well he visits their facility."

You think that makes him immune to be being lied to or exaggerated to? The link I provided you tells you - he is NOT an Insider.

And as an off-topic with our disagreement David Diehl is the the type of guy many on this site/many on this thread probably classify as "one of them" ie "the media."

SO last year we love him but this year we hate him because he hated the Jones pick at 6. They'd say "WHat does he know?" I find that a bit comical. Lats year he is "entrusted" getting inside info this year he is "full of shit dumb media guy."

He completely botched free agency last offseason.
I don't think the Odell trade was bad, those were factors (coaching, ownership) above him, but his arrogance pisses me off.
He's never won shit yet acts like he has the resume of Bill Billchick.

Last year it was 'I need a gold jacket guy' with the number two pick, and he passes on several QB prospects who were superior.
This season, he goes hog wild over Daniel Jones (aka Alex Smith) at number 6, ignoring the 'gold jacket' mandate he invented.
He completely disregarded the pass rush, and if you question him, again, you get the attitude.

He's the kind of guy who would go 10-6, win a division, and strut around wearing that T-Shirt like he was a Super Bowl winner.
Can't stand him, and unless Daniel Jones is better than Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Hankins, and Lock, he's fucked us with a mediocre Alex Smith.
Hope I'm wrong.

I've never disliked a GM of my teams so much as him.
At least Sather won 5 cups.
What has this schmuck ever won?

He cleared out dead wood and placed bets on some new guys. That�s what new GMs do. Even Reese did it, and he was a true internal hire. He also won a Super Bowl in year 1 and started out 11-1 in year 2, and we all know what happened after that.

Gettleman might emphasize the running game slightly more than some of his peers, but the variance is pretty small. He re-signed Beckham to a huge deal, then moved the resources to Shepard and Tate when the organization decided to move on from OBJ. He also inherited a good receiving TE. The additions of Barkley, Solder, Hernandez and Zeitler bolster the offense as a whole, not just the running game. And the heir to Eli has arrived, just a year later than some folks predicted/preferred.

On the other side of the ball, a rebuild was clearly needed. I might have stuck with Apple a bit longer, in the hope that a better locker room environment would help him grow up. Can�t really argue with the move, though; the kid is a mess, and his game may never translate. The line and backfield look better, at least on paper. The linebackers still look terrible. Maybe Bettcher has a plan for getting more from them in redefined roles. A lot seems to be riding on Golden and Carter.

If nothing else, the Giants are interesting again, after five years as possibly the League�s dullest team - even with Beckham. Whether they will as interesting on the field remains to be seen, as does almost everything else about Gettleman�s tenure. Does he have a plan? Sure. So does every GM in the NFL, as Mike Tyson might say... until they get punched in the face.

I have a quibble with 1 premise above:

Quote:

He cleared out dead wood and placed bets on some new guys. That�s what new GMs do. Even Reese did it,

The Giants did not have a major roster turnover in 2007 -

he traded 1 player -- Ryan Grant to Green Bay

he claimed a few players off of waivers

he signed Shawn O'Hara

what dead wood did he trim?

In comment 14456367 gidiefor said:

Quote:

I have a quibble with 1 premise above: Quote: He cleared out dead wood and placed bets on some new guys. That�s what new GMs do. Even Reese did it, The Giants did not have a major roster turnover in 2007 - he traded 1 player -- Ryan Grant to Green Bay he claimed a few players off of waivers he signed Shawn O'Hara what dead wood did he trim?

Luke Pettigout.

about the Solder move. First, he had an injury early in the season. Second, there was an issue re: his pass protection drops - the difference between Eli and Brady. Third, OLine is always related to the paly of other OL players. He has settled in and is playing well - when's the last time we could say that about the guy protecting Eli's backside?

In comment 14456256 giantstock said:

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SOldier making 4 yr $62m Omameh signed 3 yrs $15m Stewart sighned --e stiamte gaurantted $3m 2 years so say $1.5M Hubbard gets 5 years $37.5m Fulton gets 4 years $28m. You can see the money fits. DG had the opportunity to offer more. Instead on a team devoid of talent he stupidly went after one above average player instead of two albeit lesser at tackle in 2018 BUT YOU ARE REBUILDING IN 2018. The better Soldier is doesn;t outweigh what he'll sink to when GMEN "ARE READY TO COMPETE." You shouldn't be "comparing" Hubbard vs Soldier but you should be comparing Hubbard AND Fulton vs Soldier AND Omameh. As for Hubbard - you are making a misleading statement. I'm sure it's not intentional. Just like with Soldier he IMPROVEd as the season went on SO DID HUBBARD. So much so that the Browns didn't feel a need to replace him this year. SO we can "excuse" $15m aging LT for his crummy 1st half but if Hubbard has a bad 1st half he's a bust? Well we know that that isn't true, right? Per the link below we know that your statement about Browns looking release was thrown out the window based on his performance around the 2nd half, correct? SO oyur post is a bit misleading, correct? ***We have to realize the Browns are looking to win (no more rebuild), right? SO if your point is still valid that Hubbard was so awful all of last year, why have they kept him? ANd with the attached link stating Hubbard is improving, you want to just ignore it? The Browns didn't trade or draft a RT to replace Hubbard and you just want to ignore it? https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Joe-Thomas-Chris-Hubbard-improving-Browns-right-tackle-126371293/ You asked how would play LG? Fulton could be the LG. He has played LG with KC. And Crosby would be the backup instead of Wheeler. Crosby was mentioned because of potential. Wheeler is a backup and will be nothing more than that. DO you agree?

I'm not the one posting a misleading comment about Hubbard. You posted a comment from a former teammate Joe Thomas DURING the season in December. I posted an article with sources from the team during the offseason. Which is more accurate?

Otherwise, it will help dig a hole his new roster will need to perform its way out of it.

In comment 14456437 JonC said:

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Otherwise, it will help dig a hole his new roster will need to perform its way out of it.

True, it's ironic because when he was hired most of the people here were worried about his draft history but confident in his ability to sign UFA's. Now it's the complete opposite.

this is nothing new -- but he also found gold

this is why the cutting bait quickly is a good trait

which suggests he's striking and inking without enough quality info on the veteran(s).

DG's UFA usage with the Giants as head of pro personnel was strong. He needs to regain that touch.

Markus Golden was a great signing on a prove it deal. If he doesn't improve from last year he is just a solid 1 year stopgap.

Mike Remmers was a cheap stopgap as well.

Olsen Pierre was signed for the league minimum and he had 5.5 sacks in a rotational role under Bettcher two seasons ago. Perhaps returning to a 3-4 defense will improve his productivity again.

Rod Smith is another league min signing that will compete for the 3rd RB spot.

Golden Tate was the only expensive FA he signed and time will tell if this was a good pickup.

Antoine Bethea is another stopgap/locker room leader that the team needed. His signing won't prevent Sean Chandler or any of the other young kids from beating him out.

with the exception of Tate. Last year, it seemed he rushed into his UFA decisions, perhaps because he'd be out of work for a bit and wasn't really armed with the correct info.

Ogletree is fantastic. He's a serviceable LB.

Quote:

... christian : 5/26/2019 5:12 pm : link : reply Ogletree is a really good athlete and catches the ball well, but I'd be careful to connect interceptions and pass coverage, especially at linebacker where many of the opportunities to snag the ball aren't a product of coverage, but position. He had his share of bad looks in coverage, gave up his share of TDs, and Collins strongly intimated missed assignments at the LB position caused a lot of the bad plays last year.

But when a poster calls moves like that complete blunders as if they retard the growth of the team instead of try to bring some order back, it is just a ridiculous comment.

It's hard enough to get past typos and random capitilizations, but continually harping on Omameah and Stewart as evidence that Gettleman is doing poorly and then calling Solder (or "Soldier") and Ogletree complete blunders is just trying to magnify an issue that isn't there.

From the attention Omameah and Stewart get, you'd have thought they carry millions of dead weight into this season.

We will see this year if Gettleman has turned teh roster around, but calling moves of players who have been solid "complete blunders" is just a steaming pile of horseshit.

In comment 14456434 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14456256 giantstock said: Quote: SOldier making 4 yr $62m Omameh signed 3 yrs $15m Stewart sighned --e stiamte gaurantted $3m 2 years so say $1.5M Hubbard gets 5 years $37.5m Fulton gets 4 years $28m. You can see the money fits. DG had the opportunity to offer more. Instead on a team devoid of talent he stupidly went after one above average player instead of two albeit lesser at tackle in 2018 BUT YOU ARE REBUILDING IN 2018. The better Soldier is doesn;t outweigh what he'll sink to when GMEN "ARE READY TO COMPETE." You shouldn't be "comparing" Hubbard vs Soldier but you should be comparing Hubbard AND Fulton vs Soldier AND Omameh. As for Hubbard - you are making a misleading statement. I'm sure it's not intentional. Just like with Soldier he IMPROVEd as the season went on SO DID HUBBARD. So much so that the Browns didn't feel a need to replace him this year. SO we can "excuse" $15m aging LT for his crummy 1st half but if Hubbard has a bad 1st half he's a bust? Well we know that that isn't true, right? Per the link below we know that your statement about Browns looking release was thrown out the window based on his performance around the 2nd half, correct? SO oyur post is a bit misleading, correct? ***We have to realize the Browns are looking to win (no more rebuild), right? SO if your point is still valid that Hubbard was so awful all of last year, why have they kept him? ANd with the attached link stating Hubbard is improving, you want to just ignore it? The Browns didn't trade or draft a RT to replace Hubbard and you just want to ignore it? https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Joe-Thomas-Chris-Hubbard-improving-Browns-right-tackle-126371293/ You asked how would play LG? Fulton could be the LG. He has played LG with KC. And Crosby would be the backup instead of Wheeler. Crosby was mentioned because of potential. Wheeler is a backup and will be nothing more than that. DO you agree? I'm not the one posting a misleading comment about Hubbard. You posted a comment from a former teammate Joe Thomas DURING the season in December. I posted an article with sources from the team during the offseason. Which is more accurate?

Really? SO where's the link that says they want to release him? WHy is he still expected to start? You said he had an awful season. Yet Cleveland NOT getting a replacement for him while they are no longer in rebuild mode -you think justifies your opinion that he sucked all year?

Your other points were wrong in terms of you implied GMEN couldn't have afforded him? That was wrong too, right?

ANd you made a point about no LG yet we know Fulton has played LG before, right?


You've taken everything I posted wrong to a certain degree and now you say they "debated" releasing him? I suppose they could have had a conversation but they KEPT HIM -- so it doesn't support your comment that he sucked all year does it? OTHErWISE WHY DID THEY KEEP HIM WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO WIN?

In comment 14456343 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

He cleared out dead wood and placed bets on some new guys. That�s what new GMs do. Even Reese did it, and he was a true internal hire. He also won a Super Bowl in year 1 and started out 11-1 in year 2, and we all know what happened after that. Gettleman might emphasize the running game slightly more than some of his peers, but the variance is pretty small. He re-signed Beckham to a huge deal, then moved the resources to Shepard and Tate when the organization decided to move on from OBJ. He also inherited a good receiving TE. The additions of Barkley, Solder, Hernandez and Zeitler bolster the offense as a whole, not just the running game. And the heir to Eli has arrived, just a year later than some folks predicted/preferred. On the other side of the ball, a rebuild was clearly needed. I might have stuck with Apple a bit longer, in the hope that a better locker room environment would help him grow up. Can�t really argue with the move, though; the kid is a mess, and his game may never translate. The line and backfield look better, at least on paper. The linebackers still look terrible. Maybe Bettcher has a plan for getting more from them in redefined roles. A lot seems to be riding on Golden and Carter. If nothing else, the Giants are interesting again, after five years as possibly the League�s dullest team - even with Beckham. Whether they will as interesting on the field remains to be seen, as does almost everything else about Gettleman�s tenurny giants e. Does he have a plan? Sure. So does every GM in the NFL, as Mike Tyson might say... until they get punched in the face.

Gettleman didnt clean out the dead wood. He didn't even tear the team down to its foundation. What gettleman did was remove the founation and that definitely is NOT what most new gm's do. It's a plan based on the premise that he can find beter players than the good one he let go. That's a very egotistical and risky plan. It's what Chip Kelly thought he could do in philly and it failed. Its what Gettleman thought he could do in Carolina and that failed. I doubt it will work here but i would love to be wrong.

I think that DG has set the franchise up for a solid future. If Jones pans out Gettleman's done an amazing job in only 2 years. If not, we are still set up for a solid future, with a ton of cap space and a young roster.

A lot of the antipathy for DG began with the Barkley pick, with a ton of fans expressing certainty that one of Darnold, Rosen or Allen are the second coming. We'll see about that.
I thought after Darnold's first year at USC that he was amazing, and after the second year that he made horrible choices time and time again. Then he did the same for the Jets last year. But he still could become a superstar.

At the same time it shows how hard it is to commit to a QB if you don't have confidence in the guy. But so many guys were certain. How anyone can be that certain I don't know. Same for Jones. It's "we'll see" and hope for the best.

will come next offseason when the Giants have close to 100 million in cap room. If he hands out long term deals hopefully he will focus on younger veterans just as the Giants did in 2005 when they signed Burress, Pierce, and McKenzie to long term deals.

I would target the following players
1 of the following, RT** - Daryl Williams or Jack Conklin
ER - Yannick Ngakoue or Jadaveon Clowney
1 of the following ILB - Myles Jack, Deion Jones, Jaylon Smith, Deon Buchanon
DE - Arik Armstead


I would also like to see the Giants roll the dice on 1 year prove it deal types like DT Vernon Butler, DE Robert Nkemdiche, OT Jason Spriggs.

I put an ** next to RT because if Wheeler or Asafo-Adjei show enough this season to convince the Giants that they could be the long term answer at RT then they should focus on a cheap veteran backup type or a player like Jason Spriggs.

Now most of the targets will likely re-sign with their current teams but whoever is left should be a target of Gettleman's. Due to the lack of options in free agency I would prefer to see the Giants address the WR position early in the draft. An OT, FS, and another ER would be ideal as well.

in the first 9 games last season Chris Hubbard gave up 6 sacks and 19 hurries. Look I wanted the Giants to sign him last offseason but he proved that his last season in Pittsburgh under Munchak was a fluke.

Why did the Browns not replace him? It's simple because they don't have the cap room which to take the hit and go out and find a replacement when their current starter at LT is Greg Robinson.

They traded Zeitler for Vernon to fill one need and they were able to do so because they had 2018 33rd overall pick Austin Corbett to fill his spot. Had they released Hubbard they would have had Kendall Lamm as the starter at RT. The Browns OL depth is very poor right now. They had no choice but to give Hubbard another year just as the Giants did last year with Flowers at RT.

In comment 14456501 Jay on the Island said:

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in the first 9 games last season Chris Hubbard gave up 6 sacks and 19 hurries. Look I wanted the Giants to sign him last offseason but he proved that his last season in Pittsburgh under Munchak was a fluke. Why did the Browns not replace him? It's simple because they don't have the cap room which to take the hit and go out and find a replacement when their current starter at LT is Greg Robinson. They traded Zeitler for Vernon to fill one need and they were able to do so because they had 2018 33rd overall pick Austin Corbett to fill his spot. Had they released Hubbard they would have had Kendall Lamm as the starter at RT. The Browns OL depth is very poor right now. They had no choice but to give Hubbard another year just as the Giants did last year with Flowers at RT.

In the 1st 9 games he was terrible so was Soldier. Yet GMEn are payign A LOT more for him.

You specifically cited NINE games yet on your 1st post you said he sucked all year. WHich is it?

Third-- if he sucked all year - you really think they wouldn't have found a way to get another RT if as you say he sucked all year?

IMO he did NOT suck all year. As the article stated "HE IMPROVED." SO much so they have confidence in him. They would've traded future picks to draft a guy if they think Hubbard really sucked. They are trying to win now and have been LOSERS for so long -- this is a HUGE DEAL for them this year-- they want to win.

They are going into the season with hopes of winning the division. They aren't going into the season of the 2nd most important position on the OLINE as someone who knowingly sucks. That Dec article I posted is probably accurate.

In comment 14456536 giantstock said:

Quote:

In the 1st 9 games he was terrible so was Soldier. Yet GMEn are payign A LOT more for him. You specifically cited NINE games yet on your 1st post you said he sucked all year. WHich is it? Third-- if he sucked all year - you really think they wouldn't have found a way to get another RT if as you say he sucked all year? IMO he did NOT suck all year. As the article stated "HE IMPROVED." SO much so they have confidence in him. They would've traded future picks to draft a guy if they think Hubbard really sucked. They are trying to win now and have been LOSERS for so long -- this is a HUGE DEAL for them this year-- they want to win. They are going into the season with hopes of winning the division. They aren't going into the season of the 2nd most important position on the OLINE as someone who knowingly sucks. That Dec article I posted is probably accurate.

Your opinion might carry some weight if you actually spelled the guys name right. It's Nate SOLDER not Soldier. Solder also has a very solid track record at left tackle.

Chris Hubbard had a grand of 14 career starts when he signed with the Browns. Hubbard started a career high 10 games the year before because Gilbert went on IR for Pitt. Hubbard has never started at LT. Hubbard sucked all year and he also benefitted from having mobile QB's behind him which hides some of his inadequacies.

Once again the Browns invested a lot of money in Hubbard so they had no choice but to give him another year. This is a team that has journeyman Greg Robinson as it's starting LT.

Since when did the browns become the gold standard for good personnel decisions?

during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup.

gidiefor said:

Quote:

I have a quibble with 1 premise above: Quote: He cleared out dead wood and placed bets on some new guys. That�s what new GMs do. Even Reese did it. The Giants did not have a major roster turnover in 2007... what dead wood did he trim?

As noted, Petitgout was the boldest move, but there were others: Carlos Emmons, Will Demps, Tim Carter, Jim Finn, Chad Morton, Visanthe Shiancoe (a Reese pick from 2003 whom they possibly should have kept), LaVar Arrington, Brandon Short (in his second tour with NYG). The biggest single change was Barber�s retirement. And of course Shockey was rapidly wearing out his welcome too.

In comment 14456561 Jay on the Island said:

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during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup.

Sure no player in the NFL ever plays injured. ANd we can expect older OL to not be injured very much going forward. Okay.

In comment 14456583 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14456561 Jay on the Island said: Quote: during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup. Sure no player in the NFL ever plays injured. ANd we can expect older OL to not be injured very much going forward. Okay.

I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Obviously my point was that Solder struggled when he was playing hurt but then played better after he recovered. Where did I say that he won't get hurt in the future?

I assumed it was common sense that players play better when they are healthy but apparently I was wrong.

In comment 14456560 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14456536 giantstock said: Quote: In the 1st 9 games he was terrible so was Soldier. Yet GMEn are payign A LOT more for him. You specifically cited NINE games yet on your 1st post you said he sucked all year. WHich is it? Third-- if he sucked all year - you really think they wouldn't have found a way to get another RT if as you say he sucked all year? IMO he did NOT suck all year. As the article stated "HE IMPROVED." SO much so they have confidence in him. They would've traded future picks to draft a guy if they think Hubbard really sucked. They are trying to win now and have been LOSERS for so long -- this is a HUGE DEAL for them this year-- they want to win. They are going into the season with hopes of winning the division. They aren't going into the season of the 2nd most important position on the OLINE as someone who knowingly sucks. That Dec article I posted is probably accurate. Your opinion might carry some weight if you actually spelled the guys name right. It's Nate SOLDER not Soldier. Solder also has a very solid track record at left tackle. Chris Hubbard had a grand of 14 career starts when he signed with the Browns. Hubbard started a career high 10 games the year before because Gilbert went on IR for Pitt. Hubbard has never started at LT. Hubbard sucked all year and he also benefitted from having mobile QB's behind him which hides some of his inadequacies. Once again the Browns invested a lot of money in Hubbard so they had no choice but to give him another year. This is a team that has journeyman Greg Robinson as it's starting LT. Since when did the browns become the gold standard for good personnel decisions?

Sure. Spelling matters. Okay. Thanks.

The Giants would have to make a number of moves to get to 100M dollars. If they roll-over everything remaining this year, Overthecap puts them at ~65M for 2020.

There are definitely be players to look at; if you cut Ogletree, Solder, Ellison, and Jenkins you get close to 100M.

Gettleman has done a great job largely getting the roster young and cost controlled. I suspect he will definitely do more of that next year.

I frankly don't see any of those guys as part of a core.

In comment 14456589 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14456583 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14456561 Jay on the Island said: Quote: during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup. Sure no player in the NFL ever plays injured. ANd we can expect older OL to not be injured very much going forward. Okay. I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Obviously my point was that Solder struggled when he was playing hurt but then played better after he recovered. Where did I say that he won't get hurt in the future? I assumed it was common sense that players play better when they are healthy but apparently I was wrong.

Sure - You seem to be filled with excuses. Let's not stop at Soldier and let's not count age into the injury equation either, okay?

I guess everyone can use the injury excuse now okay? Why don't you explain to Bill Belchick that his latest SB win didn;t matter much anyways because Gurley was hurt.

Injuries don't count for older players too - okay.

BTW - are you going to complain again about how I spelled "didn't as "didn;t." Please do. That will really help clarify how good Hubbard is.

And while you asked "since when Cleveland be the Golden Standard" -- well since when did you become it? You vs John Dorsey. Hmm I wonder who here has the delusion of grandeur?

So Dorsey's 1ast year Dorsey had his team play .500 football while the guy you like DG has his team at 5-11 in which GMEn beta 4 backup QB's. Yet you are knocking the Browns evaluations? Sure okay-- some of you - your homerism knows no bounds.

In comment 14456613 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14456589 Jay on the Island said: Quote: In comment 14456583 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14456561 Jay on the Island said: Quote: during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup. Sure no player in the NFL ever plays injured. ANd we can expect older OL to not be injured very much going forward. Okay. I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Obviously my point was that Solder struggled when he was playing hurt but then played better after he recovered. Where did I say that he won't get hurt in the future? I assumed it was common sense that players play better when they are healthy but apparently I was wrong. Sure - You seem to be filled with excuses. Let's not stop at Soldier and let's not count age into the injury equation either, okay? I guess everyone can use the injury excuse now okay? Why don't you explain to Bill Belchick that his latest SB win didn;t matter much anyways because Gurley was hurt. Injuries don't count for older players too - okay. BTW - are you going to complain again about how I spelled "didn't as "didn;t." Please do. That will really help clarify how good Hubbard is. And while you asked "since when Cleveland be the Golden Standard" -- well since when did you become it? You vs John Dorsey. Hmm I wonder who here has the delusion of grandeur? So Dorsey's 1ast year Dorsey had his team play .500 football while the guy you like DG has his team at 5-11 in which GMEn beta 4 backup QB's. Yet you are knocking the Browns evaluations? Sure okay-- some of you - your homerism knows no bounds.

near .500 football

In comment 14456609 christian said:

Quote:

The Giants would have to make a number of moves to get to 100M dollars. If they roll-over everything remaining this year, Overthecap puts them at ~65M for 2020. There are definitely be players to look at; if you cut Ogletree, Solder, Ellison, and Jenkins you get close to 100M. Gettleman has done a great job largely getting the roster young and cost controlled. I suspect he will definitely do more of that next year. I frankly don't see any of those guys as part of a core.

It depends on how Ogletree plays this season as well as Goodson and Connelly. If Goodson and Connelly look like viable starter at ILB then Ogletree will be gone in a year unless he plays well enough to justify his contract.

IMO this is definitely Ellison's last season with the Giants. I think C.J. Conrad will be the 3rd TE this season but he will impress enough to convince the Giants that he should be the #2 TE in 2020.

I am a bit torn on Janoris Jenkins. If he plays like he did in 2016 then he could be back in 2020 since the Giants have plenty of cap room. It will come down to a combination of his performance and the development of Beal, Baker, Love, Haley, and Ballentine. I'd give Jenkins a 50/50 shot of returning in 2020.

Solder will be back in 2020 unless he completely falls off a clip next season. There is a good chance the Giants draft his replacement next year though. 2020 could be his last season in NY.

You didn't like the Tate signing?

In comment 14456613 giantstock said:

Quote:

Sure - You seem to be filled with excuses. Let's not stop at Soldier and let's not count age into the injury equation either, okay? I guess everyone can use the injury excuse now okay? Why don't you explain to Bill Belchick that his latest SB win didn;t matter much anyways because Gurley was hurt. Injuries don't count for older players too - okay. BTW - are you going to complain again about how I spelled "didn't as "didn;t." Please do. That will really help clarify how good Hubbard is. And while you asked "since when Cleveland be the Golden Standard" -- well since when did you become it? You vs John Dorsey. Hmm I wonder who here has the delusion of grandeur? So Dorsey's 1ast year Dorsey had his team play .500 football while the guy you like DG has his team at 5-11 in which GMEn beta 4 backup QB's. Yet you are knocking the Browns evaluations? Sure okay-- some of you - your homerism knows no bounds.

You are a delight. You have gone fully off the reservation. You claim to know so much about Solder, Hubbard and Fulton yet you don't even know how to properly spell our LT's name.

It was confirmed that Solder was playing hurt at the start of last season. How do you tie that into the Patriots, Gurley, or whatever your point was is beyond me. Did I say the Giants are the only team that suffers injuries? No, I didn't.

Where did I claim that I know better? Once again your lack of reading comprehension has you making up all these false talking points. Even the best GM's make poor FA decisions. Look at Belichick bringing in Hayneswroth a few years ago. I guess Dorsey is exempt from that fact.

For the record I wanted Dorsey as GM here. I wasn't thrilled with Gettleman but I decided to wait and see how he performed before I judged him. As I wrote in another thread his tenure year will be remembered by the development of Daniel Jones.

I suggest you research how players actually performed before you criticize our GM for not signing them. Fulton by the way struggled for the Texans last season as well. PFF gave him a below average rating for the season. Perhaps there was a reason Fulton was a 6th round pick and Hubbard was an UDFA?

When did 7-8-1 equal a .500 record. Keep going your on a roll!

despite going 1-31 in two seasons. We saw how bad a coach Hugh Jackson was after the improved immediately after he was fired. Even solid GM's like Dorsey make mistakes.

It's hard to ignore Solder, Ogletree, and Jenkins all cost top 5 or higher cap hits at their respective positions. Especially Jenkins, who injuries not withstanding, has been a bad football player for two years.

Solder will cost more cap space than any LT this season. My feelings on value are well known on him -- it's a bad contract no matter what corner the Giants felt they were in.

Last offseason I posted several times that the Giants should bring in both Hubbard and Fulton as under the radar signings because I thought they could surprise when given a chance to start.

I thought that they would sign for 2-3 million annually max. When I saw them get much more than that I was glad the Giants passed. After seeing how they performed last year I am happy to admit I was wrong.

In comment 14456633 christian said:

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It's hard to ignore Solder, Ogletree, and Jenkins all cost top 5 or higher cap hits at their respective positions. Especially Jenkins, who injuries not withstanding, has been a bad football player for two years. Solder will cost more cap space than any LT this season. My feelings on value are well known on him -- it's a bad contract no matter what corner the Giants felt they were in.

This is likely Jenkins' last season here. It's hard to justify bringing him back at that salary when they have Baker, Beal, Love, Haley,and Ballentine fighting for playing time.

In comment 14456589 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14456583 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14456561 Jay on the Island said: Quote: during the first half of the season not to mention that Solder has always been a starter while Hubbard was a backup. Sure no player in the NFL ever plays injured. ANd we can expect older OL to not be injured very much going forward. Okay. I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Obviously my point was that Solder struggled when he was playing hurt but then played better after he recovered. Where did I say that he won't get hurt in the future? I assumed it was common sense that players play better when they are healthy but apparently I was wrong.

I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Some people just can't face the fact that their team might have made some bad moves. Let's all be nothing but cheerleaders, okay?

Let's IGNORE that Soldier is an older LT and as a result OLDER PLAYERS are more susceptible to getting hurt. But that doesn't matter to the cheerleading homer.

And the fact that you hear often that OLINES need time to adjust - so let's not take that into account for Hubbard - so instead a poster decides to mislead by suggesting he sucked all year. ANd when challenged about that one of his replies implies he knows more than Dorsey. SO says the great BBI "scout." Yet he still hasn't produced the nonsense that he suggested in his post that Hubbard sucked all year.

So as the poster keeps throwing darts hoping some stick - when that doesn't work -- criticize syntax and spelling. Yeah.

SO when we speak of common sense-- ofc the homerism trumps thatin a big way. How dare anyone question DG for getting an older player -- and yet when he gets hurt-- it's not DGs fault!!! God I love the homerism on here from some of you. AN older player gets hurt and it's not the GM's fault he got him. Especially though a massive overpay.

In comment 14456634 Jay on the Island said:

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Last offseason I posted several times that the Giants should bring in both Hubbard and Fulton as under the radar signings because I thought they could surprise when given a chance to start. I thought that they would sign for 2-3 million annually max. When I saw them get much more than that I was glad the Giants passed. After seeing how they performed last year I am happy to admit I was wrong.

I regretfully say that I know that you're wrong now. Unfortunately our team will suffer a bit for it. The 2020 season is the real deal for me. They can rebound due to cap space.

What do you say we quit for today going at each other? You can blast away at me your last post. You can rip me as last word. I think you're way wrong you think I am. Though if we post to others we still might come back at each other.

In comment 14456640 giantstock said:

Quote:

I love when people completely twist a point to fit their agenda. Some people just can't face the fact that their team might have made some bad moves. Let's all be nothing but cheerleaders, okay? Let's IGNORE that Soldier is an older LT and as a result OLDER PLAYERS are more susceptible to getting hurt. But that doesn't matter to the cheerleading homer. And the fact that you hear often that OLINES need time to adjust - so let's not take that into account for Hubbard - so instead a poster decides to mislead by suggesting he sucked all year. ANd when challenged about that one of his replies implies he knows more than Dorsey. SO says the great BBI "scout." Yet he still hasn't produced the nonsense that he suggested in his post that Hubbard sucked all year. So as the poster keeps throwing darts hoping some stick - when that doesn't work -- criticize syntax and spelling. Yeah. SO when we speak of common sense-- ofc the homerism trumps thatin a big way. How dare anyone question DG for getting an older player -- and yet when he gets hurt-- it's not DGs fault!!! God I love the homerism on here from some of you. AN older player gets hurt and it's not the GM's fault he got him. Especially though a massive overpay.

It takes time for offensive lines to gel that doesn't explain why Hubbard was beaten so often. The Browns offensive line had one of the league's best interiors in all of football but they struggled at both tackle spots. So by the point your making shouldn't that also apply to Solder?

You admit that Hubbard sucked for 9 games but then try to suggest that we should ignore that fact despite the fact that he doesn't have a track record of success?

Why aren't you understanding this. You claim you have watched these guys so closely yet you don't even know how to spell a guys name. That clearly proves that you haven't seen this guy enough to learn how to spell his name.

By the way I have blasted Gettleman plenty in the past so this false accusation that you fabricated out of thin air that I am a homer is completely false. I criticized Gettleman for the Stewart and Omamheh signings last season. I also agreed that he overpayed for Solder but I understood the reasoning as we couldn't go into another season with Flowers as our starting LT especially when we needed to rid the locker room of his attitude. I guess that makes me a homer though in your eyes.

He isn't a bad one either. He inherited a terrible roster that included a declining 37 year old QB with no heir in place. He has had less than two years to fix this mess and some have already declared him a disaster despite the fact that much of the roster in improved. After this season we will get a better idea of his plan and whether or not it was the right one.

of 78 posters the following sentiment was expressed:

47 (60.3%) Doing a Good Job
15 (19.2%) Wait and See
5 (6.4%) Mixed
9 (11.5%) Not Doing a Good Job
2 (2.6%) Did not express an opinion

He's improved the offensive line. Defense still needs work. A lot of his fate is now going to be tied to Daniel Jones. He can build everything else great, but you don't win it all without a good QB. I think after next season we'll know.

In comment 14456301 Rick5 said:

Quote:

It's too early to tell. One full season isn't enough time.

Jerry Reese had this team so screwed up that it will take more than one or even 2 seasons to fix it, IMO Gettleman is doing fine...

...

Thanks!

In comment 14456705 Jersey55 said:

Quote:

In comment 14456301 Rick5 said: Quote: It's too early to tell. One full season isn't enough time. Jerry Reese had this team so screwed up that it will take more than one or even 2 seasons to fix it, IMO Gettleman is doing fine...

I still think this team needs one more year. 2020 will be the season where I think they are ready to take that step to become a playoff contender. It's unfair to expect Gettleman to fix that mess with just two offseasons and little cap flexibility.

48 (59.3%) Doing a Good Job
17 (21%) Wait and See
5 (6.2%) Mixed
9 (11.1%) Not Doing a Good Job
2 (2.5%) Did not express an opinion

building it in the image he envisions. HIS team. keeping Eli doesn't really support that idea. but it could be the one major piece that he knows there would be a riot if he cut ties prematurely and he knows he's almost out the door anyways, so just rid the team of the rest of the non-DG type players and Eli will ride on on his own.

that being said, he believe in the trenches. as do I. and he seems to be addressing that, and for that I applaud him. his drafts seem to be fairly decent as well. I love last year's draft and word on this year's draft is predominantly positive.

I'm going to give my support to DG and say I have much more faith in him than I did with JR. especially towards the middle/end of his GM career. we'll see though. but I'd give him a solid B so far the minus or plus will shape itself this season with how we've progressed and what we end up doing with Eli.

moves with some questionable ones rolled in there too. His big free agent signings in each of the past two years (Solder snd Tate) are examples of what not to do imv.

It�s all about the draft decisions on Barkley and Jones versus the roads not taken...

Not really. It's an odd signing given the cap hits, his age and mercurial performances. If they think he's a sound veteran to learn from, then now we've got a handful of them, and we'll have to live with the cap crunch as they help train the puppies, in DG's words. But, he's really not a #1 vertical stretch the field threat meant to replace OBJ.

Gettleman is still perceived and judged by how he was hired in a large part.

If he had come from the Pats or even was Dorsey from outside the organization, I think the take would be drastically different. People would say he's been cleaning out the previous regime's mess and shoring up positions with mid-tier FA's where possible while having solid drafts.

But there is still a fairly large contingent that has conspiratorial thoughts that Gettleman was hired as a yes man. That he was recommended by Accorsi to give Eli a final ride into the sunset. That he was chosen without a real process. And so, they look at him as an extension of Mara, or even Reese and really don't judge him objectively.

If they did, they'd have looked at the Omameah and Stewart signings as mistakes that were not costly and easily moved off from. That Solder and Ogletree were here to have something to build around (and they also wouldn't exaggerate their level of play as terrible when it is average). That missing out on Darnold, Rosen or Allen isn't the end of the world, and may not be a mistake at all.

But strangely, those posters seem to only measure Gettleman on the negative points. When talking about the drafts, they say that Barkley didn't win us any games and his selection alone ruined the draft. They mock the way he addresses the press and talks about there not being a plan as a factual statement. We all wanted the stink and the attitude of the past few years replaced. It happened and people still look at it as a negative.

Gettleman's complete body of professional work is pretty damn impressive, yet most here act like he's a one-year GM with a record of 5-11 who sucks at signing FA's, who makes bad trades and who missed out on the next Elway, Marino and Rodgers.

I continually feel like we are being trolled. Not because of the negativity, but because drums get beaten over and over again with nonsensical takes. Not to mention strings of posts by a guy who uses random capital letters, spells like a 2-year old and who can barely form a fucking sentence that's legible.

There's definitely a considerable lack of intellectual honesty and player/prospect evaluation floating around since the SB draft pick.

In comment 14456680 gidiefor said:

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of 78 posters the following sentiment was expressed: 47 (60.3%) Doing a Good Job 15 (19.2%) Wait and See 5 (6.4%) Mixed 9 (11.5%) Not Doing a Good Job 2 (2.6%) Did not express an opinion

If these are the options, I'd say mixed.

In comment 14456969 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Gettleman is still perceived and judged by how he was hired in a large part. If he had come from the Pats or even was Dorsey from outside the organization, I think the take would be drastically different. People would say he's been cleaning out the previous regime's mess and shoring up positions with mid-tier FA's where possible while having solid drafts. But there is still a fairly large contingent that has conspiratorial thoughts that Gettleman was hired as a yes man. That he was recommended by Accorsi to give Eli a final ride into the sunset. That he was chosen without a real process. And so, they look at him as an extension of Mara, or even Reese and really don't judge him objectively. If they did, they'd have looked at the Omameah and Stewart signings as mistakes that were not costly and easily moved off from. That Solder and Ogletree were here to have something to build around (and they also wouldn't exaggerate their level of play as terrible when it is average). That missing out on Darnold, Rosen or Allen isn't the end of the world, and may not be a mistake at all. But strangely, those posters seem to only measure Gettleman on the negative points. When talking about the drafts, they say that Barkley didn't win us any games and his selection alone ruined the draft. They mock the way he addresses the press and talks about there not being a plan as a factual statement. We all wanted the stink and the attitude of the past few years replaced. It happened and people still look at it as a negative. Gettleman's complete body of professional work is pretty damn impressive, yet most here act like he's a one-year GM with a record of 5-11 who sucks at signing FA's, who makes bad trades and who missed out on the next Elway, Marino and Rodgers. I continually feel like we are being trolled. Not because of the negativity, but because drums get beaten over and over again with nonsensical takes. Not to mention strings of posts by a guy who uses random capital letters, spells like a 2-year old and who can barely form a fucking sentence that's legible.

So, you're saying that bw has a fan club?

To really get a sense of how he's doing. Hes made some good moves, some questionable, and some awful - similar to most GMs.

Clearly, I think he has a style of play in mind which is control the line of scrimmage and run the football. Whether that style of play can consistently win in the NFL will be determined in the coming years.

Unfortunately, I think DG's future/legacy will largely be determined by Daniel Jones. If he turns out to be what some of his proponents claim, DG will look great. If he is awful or just a game manager, I think DG will be looked upon very differently, especially if the guy in green turns out to be something special (like it or not, that specter will be held over the franchise).

and to date they haven't been good. No one should expect fans to be content about it thus far.

Say what you want about the state of the team when he was hired, but 3-4 years is when you start looking at progression or lack thereof from a GM's tenure. If we want to bandwagon the idea of 'no players on schalarship', management should be held to the same standard too.

and it was an improved record. SO the slope is positive.

Quote:

But there is still a fairly large contingent that has conspiratorial thoughts that Gettleman was hired as a yes man.

Maybe moreso a contingent that posts fairly often. But nevertheless...what difference does it make? Is this conspiracy contingent "recruiting" more posters faster than you can convince them otherwise?

Gettleman's complete body of professional work will only be considered pretty damn impressive when it starts translating to a better product and more wins on the field. Of course, he should clearly be given time to get there, and it appears as if that is indeed happening...

but I swear that someone has hijacked Jimmy Googs' account

50 (58.1%) Doing a Good Job
19 (22.1%) Wait and See
5 (5.8%) Mixed
9 (10.5%) Not Doing a Good Job
3 (3.5%) Did not express an opinion