Is Gettleman doing a good job?

This is a major reconstruction type of project we are witnessing. We will be a more physical and competitive team when it's done.

it's a results business. What he has done to date is extremely fundamental.

1. trading present value for future assets (jpp, obj)
2. moved out highly paid veterans who didn't fit (vernon, snacks)
3. gotten younger across the roster and added talent at high value areas
4. signed (and kept) some stop gap veterans who fit the culture he's looking to build (Eli, Jenkins, Ogletree, Solder)

I don't know if Shurmur is a good OC/mediocre HC like Norv Turner or a long time OC who just needed a chance as a HC like Bruce Arians. I don't know if Lawrence, Baker, and Peppers are going to form the core of a good defense going forward or not. I don't know if Daniel Jones is going to be a positive impact starter for 10+ years. I like enough about all of those mentioned to have hope, but nobody knows for sure, and among some other things those 5 evaluations led to the most critical decisions Gettleman has made to date, so quite obviously their outcomes are going to be key to evaluating Gettleman. Barkley was also a critical decision and I think he got that one right, so I guess he's got at least 1 point up on the board.

Fastest turn around talent wise I�ve ever seen as a Giants fan. Crushed the OBJ trade. Made a good trade for Vernon. He�s drafts have been excellent. Improved virtually every unit on the team. Got a generational talent in Saquon. Got our QB if the future. Good FA acquisitions. Hitting on all cylinders.

The worst thing to happen in this current charade was Mara telling Reese fix this or else in 2016. Reese then promptly breaks with a decade of financial prudence, brings on what proved to be an expensive group that supplemented the talent, when a rebuild was needed. The core of the team was broken, and a talent infusion only buoyed a season.

Mara should have let Reese rebuild from bottom up or fired him. Frankly he should have just fired him.

I like the vast majority of Gettleman's moves. I like getting younger and cheaper. Not all of these moves will work, but getting out of them is easy and Gettleman clearly likes being flexible.

Even if Gettleman has a really high rate of success with the rookies, some won't pan out and there will be holes this year. That's reality, and I think some fans are going to underwhelmed with how shakey the season goes.

Triggering ESPN and fat Mike into unhinged rants, so must be doing something. Never recall Reese getting this much hate in his long tenure. Meh it's the vile mass media promulgating their false narratives, we should be used to it by now.

In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place.

They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him.

It all looks good to me.

Gettleman in the immediate picture is just how good a value Zeitler and Peppers are. Those trades were something he had control over and where he targeted specific players. If those two have impact and staying power it's going to have significant impact in key areas that needed improvement.

His drafting seems good but is much harder to evaluate immediately. The fact is if Jones is a franchise QB then he has knocked it out of the park.

I like the way he's kicking ass personnel wise. Some of his moves were shocking, but when put into perspective made good sense.

Big George -- If Big George sticks and makes an impact it will also be significant because the Giants haven't picked an Oline man that could make an impact below round 2 since Deihl and Seubert

DBs -- if the backfield is set with the influx he drafted this year that will also be significant

LBs -- Gettleman seems to understand LBs, Pierce being his big win there in the past, and it's clear he's betting on Ogletree to repeat that formula, but he's also already put more talent and oomph into LB than the last regime was ever able to.

O & D Lines -- if the Giants rank high in run stopping and implement a consistent time eating power run game -- this will show that Gettleman can implement what he says he will implement

If the offensive line can can generate the option and play action properly - that will also be a significant improvement -- they haven't been able to do that in some time.

If the Giants can generate a pass rush with Carter, Ogletree, Peppers, Golden and Williams and all the above pans out then this team will have made a complete turn around.

Gettleman also has at least another couple of drafts to get it right as well as a healthy budget starting with the next season.

I'm optimistic and think the Gettleman is doing a good job, and that there are more changes yet to come. He's charged up the team -- you can feel it and sense it right now and that also seems like a big positive.

The Jones pick was either singularly gutty and great or utterly stupid and a waste of prime resource. I don't feel the same way about Lauletta. In the third round you can take a crap shoot if the player exceeds your ranking for the spot. I can write how I feel about Jones -- that I love the way he handles adversity -- but ultimately we won't know what we have in him for some time. Now if, for some great scheme of god, Eli takes what Gettleman has given him and makes another run at the cup, then I really won't worry about evaluating his pick of Jones. I give the GM a pass for that and trust he finds a good way to the future and thank him for making another run possible. Is that likely? I don't know, but I still want it to happen.

who haven't a clue how to build a winning football team and focus on individual players - the "shiniest objects" in the window.

I am optimistic that Gettleman is 100% on the right track. If we can avoid the injury bug and Jones turns out to be a young version of Eli (maybe even better), he'll be adored by everyone.

On the other hand, if injuries take out our key players and Jones falls on his face, DG will be tarred and feathered and driven out of NY.

Personally, I really like the guy and believe I can see what his plans are. And they appear to be genius moves as I see it.

i don't actually believe you win in the modern nfl by running the ball, so the barkley pick, for all his talent, seems the wrong way to rebuild a team that needed help everywhere. i think we will regret the odell trade for a decade. and i dont think much of most of his big ticket acquisitions - solder, ogletree, k martin, and omameh did not return value to this point. we'll see about zeitler, bethesda, peppers and tate. a good first draft, though it helps having the second pick. this year its waits and see. let's actually win some games before we talk about his supposed success.

I agree.

Fans cannot underestimate the value of the trade for Kevin Zeitler. Its absolutely HUGE.

The toughest job for any NFL scout or team is to find qualified offensive linemen. There just are not enough of them. (remember-we have a shot putter trying to make the roster as a LG)

Take a look at where the Colts were a few seasons ago. So they use a first on a Center in '17 and get their LG and RT in Rounds 1 & 2 in '18. And now everybody is talking about how good the Colts will be.

If you look at this years draft, many "experts" say a top team draft was by the Houston Texans. Why? Well they took their future LT in Round 1 and their future RT in Round 2.

We just watched the Washington Redskins draft Haskins in Round 1 to be the new face of their franchise. But what's in front of him? In the Washington OTAs, Ereck Flowers has been their starting RG !!! And after a week of practicing, the Redskins just decided they needed to add Adam Bisnowaty to their roster.

You can discuss all the Gettleman moves to date (good and bad) ad nausem, but the fact that he was able to get Kevin Zeitler to our O-line is by far the most significant move heading into 2019.

Great job 👍.

89 Madden rating. Peppers should be fine, a + player rising 82 rating, same as Collins.

I like this from an article ddawg posted.

The Giants� offensive linemen were warming up one day in early May by tossing medicine balls at the far end of the practice field. Then suddenly one of the large weighted cylinders rocketed five feet higher and 10 yards further than the rest.

What was that?� an incredulous reporter said.

�You saw that?� a Giants staffer said with a smile.

�Yeah, who the heck was that?� the reporter asked.

Kevin,� the staffer replied.

Kevin is Kevin Zeitler, the Giants� imposing new 6-4, 315-pound starting right guard with a body-armor build who would have made a good Game of Thrones battlefield extra.

In comment 14455820 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

His first draft was outstanding: Barkley, Hernandez, BJ, Lorenzo are all impact starters this season. He's turned over an amazing amount of roster players (see other threads for details). Anyone bashing him not for having immediate success doesn't understand football. It always takes 2-3 years even when you are doing the right things.

Sorry man but you're the one that doesn't know much about football. In today's NFL teams go from bad to good (and visa versa) in just one year on a regular basis. In 2017 the Rams went from 4-13 to 11-5. In 2017 the eagles went from 7-9 to 13-3 and a Super Bowl win. Crazy Dave took a team that was one year removed from an 11-5 season and won 5 games his first year. This year Vegas is predicting 6 wins. And Gettleman had the number 2 and number 6 picks in the draft to work with. That's failure with a capital F. What he's done reminds me of the Allie Sherman fiasco in the early 60's. Hopefully it won't take us 20 years to recover like it did back then.

He came in telling us he wanted to upgrade the talent level and overhaul the culture. Time will tell if he was successful, but you can�t say that he isn�t trying to execute his plan. I was a little suspect at his hiring - I was concerned about his long ties to the organization - but I always thought he had a keen eye for linemen.

While in CAR, DG was able to find under the radar OL and DL contributors. It is what has been severely lacking in the past decade. While the jury is still out, his drafts appear to be really strong. The one critique I would add is that some of his FA signings have not panned out.

In comment 14455949 YANKEE28 said:

Quote:

I agree. Fans cannot underestimate the value of the trade for Kevin Zeitler. Its absolutely HUGE. The toughest job for any NFL scout or team is to find qualified offensive linemen. There just are not enough of them. (remember-we have a shot putter trying to make the roster as a LG) Take a look at where the Colts were a few seasons ago. So they use a first on a Center in '17 and get their LG and RT in Rounds 1 & 2 in '18. And now everybody is talking about how good the Colts will be. If you look at this years draft, many "experts" say a top team draft was by the Houston Texans. Why? Well they took their future LT in Round 1 and their future RT in Round 2. We just watched the Washington Redskins draft Haskins in Round 1 to be the new face of their franchise. But what's in front of him? In the Washington OTAs, Ereck Flowers has been their starting RG !!! And after a week of practicing, the Redskins just decided they needed to add Adam Bisnowaty to their roster. You can discuss all the Gettleman moves to date (good and bad) ad nausem, but the fact that he was able to get Kevin Zeitler to our O-line is by far the most significant move heading into 2019.

Agreed the impact Zietler will likely have is falling unrecognized on many.

I think he is doing an amazing job considering the salary cap restraints he's had to deal with.

And another intangible that gets routinely underestimated is culture. I think he has transformed the locker room culture wise and that will pay huge dividends.

In comment 14455941 gidiefor said:

Quote:

Gettleman in the immediate picture is just how good a value Zeitler and Peppers are. Those trades were something he had control over and where he targeted specific players. If those two have impact and staying power it's going to have significant impact in key areas that needed improvement. His drafting seems good but is much harder to evaluate immediately. The fact is if Jones is a franchise QB then he has knocked it out of the park. I like the way he's kicking ass personnel wise. Some of his moves were shocking, but when put into perspective made good sense. Big George -- If Big George sticks and makes an impact it will also be significant because the Giants haven't picked an Oline man that could make an impact below round 2 since Deihl and Seubert DBs -- if the backfield is set with the influx he drafted this year that will also be significant LBs -- Gettleman seems to understand LBs, Pierce being his big win there in the past, and it's clear he's betting on Ogletree to repeat that formula, but he's also already put more talent and oomph into LB than the last regime was ever able to. O & D Lines -- if the Giants rank high in run stopping and implement a consistent time eating power run game -- this will show that Gettleman can implement what he says he will implement If the offensive line can can generate the option and play action properly - that will also be a significant improvement -- they haven't been able to do that in some time. If the Giants can generate a pass rush with Carter, Ogletree, Peppers, Golden and Williams and all the above pans out then this team will have made a complete turn around. Gettleman also has at least another couple of drafts to get it right as well as a healthy budget starting with the next season. I'm optimistic and think the Gettleman is doing a good job, and that there are more changes yet to come. He's charged up the team -- you can feel it and sense it right now and that also seems like a big positive. The Jones pick was either singularly gutty and great or utterly stupid and a waste of prime resource. I don't feel the same way about Lauletta. In the third round you can take a crap shoot if the player exceeds your ranking for the spot. I can write how I feel about Jones -- that I love the way he handles adversity -- but ultimately we won't know what we have in him for some time. Now if, for some great scheme of god, Eli takes what Gettleman has given him and makes another run at the cup, then I really won't worry about evaluating his pick of Jones. I give the GM a pass for that and trust he finds a good way to the future and thank him for making another run possible. Is that likely? I don't know, but I still want it to happen.

This is a really good take. Agree on pretty much all points. And I do believe Eli has another run in him now that better fitting pieces, improved OL and system has been put in place.

But long term, say 3-4 years from now I�d think he would be phased out. I�m not in love with his long term outlook here as I question his loyalty or approach to older veterans. He seems quick to the draw but maybe that�s a good thing too.

For now he�s fine, maybe even terrific. We needed a true scout that can build this team back up from soup to nuts and focus on the low hanging fruit variety of talent in these drafts. DG knows how to draft players that can play at the NFL level. He isn�t taking many risks with these draft picks. See player, draft player. Forget about positional value or any of that crap just take the guy that will turn into an NFL pro.

In comment 14455935 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said: Quote: He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place. They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him. It all looks good to me.

I don't fully agree with Homer/ his tone but I don't agree with you either. We beat 4 backup QBs this past year. Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were but were close as if they were wins.

Also- some of the posters that complain about the media have lost a certain degree of reality. They've let the media enrage them to the point that they refuse to think clear. SO what they hate him. If he wins he'll be a "colorful" GM. He's got to win. Right now they don't like him - so why should so many here care? He's not getting fired this year. Instead what you have is this yeah rah rah cheerleading team mentality from some posters. They just don't want to hear anything negative.

Until the team wins and your GM lies (how much is lying and how much is incompetence?) and acts like an ass then what;s the big deal if the media hates him? The bottomline is we all want to see wins. I don't want the media to kiss his ass. HE hasn't earned that right yet.

In comment 14455981 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14455935 PatersonPlank said: Quote: In comment 14455899 HomerJones45 said: Quote: He's an improvement because potted plants would have been an improvement over Reese-Ross. They won 5 games last year with Barkley. Since then they have offed their best wideout and their three best defenders. This team is a Barkley injury away from being one of the worst teams in the league. There are lots of new guys. Some of the new guys will be good and some will flop, that is the nature of things, and not listening to all the giants.com/house organ happy talk. Let's see it. Until then, this team is mid-70's modern. But he does let Jawn play at GM which is why he is here in the first place. They won 5 games with their best wideout, three best D players, and Barkley. Not sure why you just specify Barkley, who by the way was just a rookie. So why not dismantle things. They, like all of us, believe Barkley is a phenomenal player so why not rebuild around him. The three D players will be pretty easily replaced (they already have been) with much lower paid players, the best wideout was hurt a lot and a malcontent, and we got 3 1st round drafted players for him. It all looks good to me. I don't fully agree with Homer/ his tone but I don't agree with you either. We beat 4 backup QBs this past year. Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were but were close as if they were wins. Also- some of the posters that complain about the media have lost a certain degree of reality. They've let the media enrage them to the point that they refuse to think clear. SO what they hate him. If he wins he'll be a "colorful" GM. He's got to win. Right now they don't like him - so why should so many here care? He's not getting fired this year. Instead what you have is this yeah rah rah cheerleading team mentality from some posters. They just don't want to hear anything negative. Until the team wins and your GM lies (how much is lying and how much is incompetence?) and acts like an ass then what;s the big deal if the media hates him? The bottomline is we all want to see wins. I don't want the media to kiss his ass. HE hasn't earned that right yet.

Meant to say

"Instead posters ignore that and treat the games that were LOST but were close as if they were wins."

Good job so far on balance by D.G.

As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning?

Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax.

...understanding how what is happening with the team is somehow not generating a great deal of excitement for fans.

Two thumbs up so far!

At the end of the day, it will come down to Jones. If Jones is the goods, DG will be a hero.

But outside of that, it's too early. He's had 2 drafts. Let's see how last years players develop and let's see this years players play a game before judging them.

Typically you need 3 years to makeover a roster. DG has one more offseason to do so. He will have a bevy of draft picks again (they will get I believe at least 2 comp picks with one being a 3 for Collins) and have a shit ton of cap space going into this next offseason. And next year Jones will step into the starting role. Next year is when we can really judge DG.

When he arrived he looked over this roster and realized it needed to be completely gutted. Years of Reese/Ross bad decisions littered the roster and it needed a purge.

Gettleman knew this would take at least two years and that it would not be well received by the media and a large portion of the fan base. He did it anyway because he believed that it needed to be done for the long term benefit of this franchise.

There are only 14 players remaining from when Gettleman's arrival. That is a complete overhaul. It takes time to evaluate each player and how they best fit into the schemes. In just two offseasons Gettleman has completely rebuilt the offensive line and on paper it appears to be the best in years.

The Kevin Zeitler acquisition has been strangely overlooked by many. Here is one of the best RG's in football who is also a great fit in the locker room. RG has been a weakness since Snee retired. Remmers will likely start but his arrival will light a fire under Wheeler. If Wheeler is going to prove that he is the long term answer at RT it will happen this year.

The defense should be much improved and they are only a good pass rusher away from being a very good defense. If Golden resembles the player he was 2016 then this should be a top 10-15 defense this season.

Gettleman's reputation here will be tied to the development of Daniel Jones but regardless of that outcome he deserves credit for bringing in many good young players.

Saquon Barkley, Will Hernandez, B.J. Hill, Dexter Lawrence, Lorenzo Carter, Sam Beal, Deandre Baker, Julian Love, Grant Haley, Jabrill Peppers, and R.J. McIntosh should all be apart of the core moving forward.

Corey Coleman, Darius Slayton, Chris Slayton, Alex Wesley, Corey Ballentine, Ryan Connelly, Oshane Ximines, C.J. Conrad, Josiah Tauaefa, Sean Chandler, Jake Carlock, Nick Gates, Evan Brown, James O'Hagan, Paul Adams, Asafo-Adjei, Austin Droogsma, and Eric Dungey all have talent and have the potential to surprise and develop into solid contributors.

There is still a lot of work left to do for Gettleman but so far I think he has done a good job when you consider the mess he inherited. Next offseason the main focus should be to add a pass rusher, a #1 WR for Jones, and another OT even if Wheeler locks down the RT job. Solder is getting older and they need to have a potential replacement in house before he breaks down.

FS, ILB, C, and DL depth could all be needs as well.

In comment 14455997 djm said:

Quote:

As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning? Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax.

C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?"

The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves.

The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid.

In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern."

DG drafted Barkley knowing Eli was toast. Thus, no need to keep OBJ but felt Gettlemen erred on signing him then not trying to find more trading partners for Beckham. Not trading LC before last season and letting him leave for just draft compensation seems short-sighted. All of this hinges on Daniel Jones being successful as early as this year. Keeping Eli around for tutoring Jones for one year works, provided DJ plays by November. Defense will be a sieve, no pass rush. Lastly, not a fan of Shurmer but I think good head coaches/GMs know ownership meddles too much at the Meadowlands. Giants have a culture problem best solved by the team being sold to a Steve Ballmer type of owner.

Lets see what happens when the real bullets start flying. Keeping the faith myself.

In comment 14456067 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: As an excuse to bash DG, cmon man. Those are two minor moves that didn�t work out. Every team suffers these minor failures on a yearly basis. That�s your reasoning? Solder is fine. He�s solidified LT. His FA moves have been so so but far from damaging or terrible. Man some of you are so fucking picky or overly critical. A one year deal on a vet rb, the guy gets hurt and you�re bashing that move? Fucking relax. C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern."

Nope.

In comment 14456082 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 14456067 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern." Nope.

Good-- we can agree to disagree. That's a good thing. We'll see how season turns out. And I think many of us agree that 2020 season is the key year.

He hasn't been perfect by any means but at least he sees a mistake and tries to fix it and not try to prove he was right. Cutting guys that he signed as Gas shows he is adaptable.

His handling of the Daniel Jones pick was terrible. He should have simply said he was the best player on our board and that's why we took him.

The drafts are too soon to tell. I was against the Barkley pick last year but you can't argue that he is a Superstar.

You have to believe that in the 2 years the roster is much improved. Still a long way to go.

A lot is riding on the QB. It looks like a desperate move and we probably could have gotten him at 17. Jones has to become a top 10 QB in this league or the Giants have to be a strong playoff team in year 3 for DG to be looked on favorably in the future. He passed on a lot of QBs last year and took one that many thought could be had later so that is his defining moment.

No one is going to be perfect but I would rather have someone admit a mistake and cut ties than try to prove he is right.

which makes it hard to judge some of his moves objectively. All of us are hoping like hell that he knows what he is doing.

Personally, I think I would have more confidence if he talked less, instead of always coming off as the smartest guy in the room. Never thought I'd want anyone to be a little more like Reese, but I do think DG has fallen in love with the cameras and his own voice. Every time he says something, the media is quick to point out prior inconsistent statements. When this happens, unless you are just a blind loyalist you have to wonder if there really is some blueprint for the rebuild or if the guy is just winging it as he goes along.

and glad to see the replacement of Reese.
I wonder how many of DG's critics could do the job any better.

In comment 14455841 bw in dc said:

Quote:

But I think Gettleman has chosen a very risky path for the future. Foregoing the huge cap savings by keeping 38 year old Eli, instead of investing that money elsewhere to further improve the team, and drafting the riskiest QB in this draft at #6.

I dont think he took the riskiest QB .... he actually took the guy with the highest floor. He took the durable guy, the guy you'll stand tough in the pocket, he took the guy who has a good mental approach to the game, He took the guy who can definitely run a WCO (short and Med passes make up most of the playbook). The arm strength has been hashed to death and far as we can see the truth is he has a decent arm can make all the throws but does not have a cannon. History has shown a accurate QB with avg to slight above avg arm strength can it done. Can he learn the O and be very efficient in it and make the tactical deep strike when called upon?

As for the D ... we took care of the DL and 2ndary. LBs are still a work in progress. The plan is we can mix man, zone and man/zone at will allowing Bettcher to blitz and cause chaos with his scheme and play-calling.

Eli needs to now spread the ball to the open guy and Jones takes notes and steps in next season.

Next FA season we have money for WR(s), LB and younger RT ... not to mention the draft.

Lets just season how it all plays out.

right here:

Quote:

The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors.

You bring in three decent FA's - proven players and you have people referring to them as complete blunders.

It's hard to discuss when that's the type of reasoning that the board is pelted with constantly. Both Solder and Ogletree played decently last year - and yet you have some here who characterize their play on the level with Flowers and Unga.

Instead of having a nuanced conversation on the respective value of the players and their role in solidifying a roster, they are called complete blunders. One of them without even playing a fucking down. But then again - one guy had 5 INT's, finally showed that a NYG LB can have aptitude in coverage and he gets shit on too.

Name any NYG OL when last years FA period began? Flowers and Hart? Oh there were none?

Name a better LT at a lower price that was available?

Name the several available good OL for the same cap space?

Notice the difference when he was playing badly ( early in the year) vs later and tell us the position is not worth spending on?

Tell me which better LT was available this year at a lower cap space?

Im not claiming Solder was good or a bargain. But he was a choice and there was a market for him and as a GM you have to fill the space. What are you going to do on day one of the FA period.

Notice there were not any LTs deserving on the number 2 slot? So we know the complaint. We know Solder is not great.

What's the solution?

Its not an easy job is it?


Btw, I completely agree that the Stewart signing was just a flat out mistake



Its amazing there are only 32 GM's...anyone can do a better job

Ogletree is a really good athlete and catches the ball well, but I'd be careful to connect interceptions and pass coverage, especially at linebacker where many of the opportunities to snag the ball aren't a product of coverage, but position.

He had his share of bad looks in coverage, gave up his share of TDs, and Collins strongly intimated missed assignments at the LB position caused a lot of the bad plays last year.

Ogletree is the 3rd highest paid player at his position. I don't think he's anywhere near that in terms of return. I think he's closer to a middle of the pack type inside linebacker.

And that's the heart of my concern with Ogletree, Solder, Jenkins, Tate and frankly Manning. It's not that they are overpaid, it's they are in my estimate wildly overpaid.

In a year where Gettleman has done really well shedding bad contracts and getting younger, I don't like these contracts.

I understand you want a mix of vets to buoy learning and work ethic, I just think you can get average vet players at average cost.

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Name a better LT at a lower price that was available?

In hindsight Solder's previous employer didn't overbid, stayed patient, waited for the draft to play out, and acquired a younger better player via trade.

Conventional wisdom might have said the Pats were in their championship window, so they should have been more impatient and overpaid for the best player on the market at the time, but of course they didn't.

The what would Belichick gets tiring, but in this case the Giants and Pats literally bid for the same guy, and the Pats just unsurprisingly played it far better.

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Name any NYG OL when last years FA period began? Flowers and Hart? Oh there were none? Name a better LT at a lower price that was available? Name the several available good OL for the same cap space?

You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart.

You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby.

Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be.

What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG.

Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes?

In comment 14456193 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 14456164 Bill2 said: Quote: Name a better LT at a lower price that was available? In hindsight Solder's previous employer didn't overbid, stayed patient, waited for the draft to play out, and acquired a younger better player via trade. Conventional wisdom might have said the Pats were in their championship window, so they should have been more impatient and overpaid for the best player on the market at the time, but of course they didn't. The what would Belichick gets tiring, but in this case the Giants and Pats literally bid for the same guy, and the Pats just unsurprisingly played it far better.

Yet ofc another reason some will excuse DG and just bury their heads in the sand that it's okay to massively overspend for an aging LT even though GMEn are in complete rebuild mode.

Mind-boggling.

Thank God we have an older LT on our rebuild team that help drive our team to a terrific 5-11 record. We have so much to be thankful for.

C'mon for some posters-- he made a mistake. HE can overcome it with draft picks and FA over next year or so and if Jones is good it will be fine -- bUT -- AS OF THIS MOMENT-- THIS MASSIVE OVERPAY was INCREDIBLY STUPID. He should have went after two younger linemen and not overpay for an aging one and a lwo quality one (Omameh.). It's called COMMON SENSE.

In comment 14456210 giantstock said:

Quote:

You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart. You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby. Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be. What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG. Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes?

LOL, they could have had Hubbard and Fulton for the same price? Chris Hubbard signed a 5 year 37.5 million dollar contract last offseason and the Browns have been debated taking the cap hit and releasing him because he was awful last year at RT. If the Giants drafted Braden Smith they wouldn't have filled the hole at LG.

Tyrell Crosby had a whopping two starts for the Lions last season and it was only because of injury. As of now he is still a backup on a line that feautres Kenny Wiggins at RG.

Are we really comparing the choices the Gm with the most talented roster drafted at his spot with the choices the GM with arguably the least talent had?

And expecting us to miss the miss?

Again, when your team sucks and has holes all over the place...no matter who you pick there are still easy second guesses elsewhere on the roster and under the cap.

I think the book on DG is still out but I do think we have to evaluate the whole book and not under critique or over.

But that's just imo

Our oline was an abject disaster, had to go shopping while starving. I knew what we were getting in Solder, an above average LT, and given the sit, I was resigned to signing him.

In comment 14456089 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14456082 djm said: Quote: In comment 14456067 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14455997 djm said: Quote: C'mon -- who is using them "exclusively?" The problem is some of you just want to ignore his bad moves. Omamah and Stewart are further examples of bad moves. The Soldier move a complete blunder. You add up the blunder of Soldier with the awful move Ogeltree and the awful move of Tate it's a comedy of errors. Some of you can't seem to grasp the GEN are in rebuild mode. Getting an again LT that is juts "pretty good" WHILE YOU ARE REBUILDING when you could have gotten TWO OL and a draft instead of Soldier/Omameh and STewart is just plain stupid. In of itself Omameh and Stewart aren't earth shattering blunders but they show a pattern of stupidity. WHta tiuy call "picky" I call "a pattern." Nope. Good-- we can agree to disagree. That's a good thing. We'll see how season turns out. And I think many of us agree that 2020 season is the key year.

Yes!

Time to compete again.

1. To have a good OL you need good players. Teams that have good players generally try to keep them. So 1 year turnarounds require luck in that you need a few long shots to work out.

2. To the point of others above Solder and Zeitler are both among the best available players who have changed teams at their respective positions the past couple years. Hernandez too factoring in draft picks. Are they good enough to lead the turnaround? We�ll see but they give us a shot.

3. They are rolling the dice on C and RT again and though it�s to a lesser degree than last year it could bite them. They like the cheaper options on the roster, but they had some options they passed on - including overpaying Daryl Williams or drafting their choice of OL at #17. Defense was an even bigger need so if the value was with a better player on D it�s certainly justifiable - but that doesn�t mean it was the right call.

On Braden Smith so your issue is with the team's doctors not the GM.

In comment 14456221 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 14456210 giantstock said: Quote: You could've gotten Hubbard and Fulton last year instead of the combination of Solider and Omameh and Stewart. You could've drafted Braden Smith which SY was HUGE on. Later on you had Tyler Crosby. Can you please explain how valuable it is for a rotten team like the GMen were to get an aging LT who is at best "pretty good" but each year going forward will probably decline? Then by the time GMEN are ready to compete which at best is 2020, he'll probably be sub-par? Maybe 2020 he isn't but he probably will be. What I find mind-boggling is that it was okay to bash Reese but HOW DARE there be 32 GM's to bash DG. Or maybe it's that some posters think it's cool that the media doesn't like him so they just want to close their eyes on the dumb moves that he makes? LOL, they could have had Hubbard and Fulton for the same price? Chris Hubbard signed a 5 year 37.5 million dollar contract last offseason and the Browns have been debated taking the cap hit and releasing him because he was awful last year at RT. If the Giants drafted Braden Smith they wouldn't have filled the hole at LG. Tyrell Crosby had a whopping two starts for the Lions last season and it was only because of injury. As of now he is still a backup on a line that feautres Kenny Wiggins at RG.

SOldier making 4 yr $62m
Omameh signed 3 yrs $15m
Stewart sighned --e stiamte gaurantted $3m 2 years so say $1.5M


Hubbard gets 5 years $37.5m
Fulton gets 4 years $28m.


You can see the money fits. DG had the opportunity to offer more. Instead on a team devoid of talent he stupidly went after one above average player instead of two albeit lesser at tackle in 2018 BUT YOU ARE REBUILDING IN 2018. The better Soldier is doesn;t outweigh what he'll sink to when GMEN "ARE READY TO COMPETE." You shouldn't be "comparing" Hubbard vs Soldier but you should be comparing Hubbard AND Fulton vs Soldier AND Omameh.

As for Hubbard - you are making a misleading statement. I'm sure it's not intentional. Just like with Soldier he IMPROVEd as the season went on SO DID HUBBARD. So much so that the Browns didn't feel a need to replace him this year.

SO we can "excuse" $15m aging LT for his crummy 1st half but if Hubbard has a bad 1st half he's a bust? Well we know that that isn't true, right? Per the link below we know that your statement about Browns looking release was thrown out the window based on his performance around the 2nd half, correct? SO oyur post is a bit misleading, correct?

***We have to realize the Browns are looking to win (no more rebuild), right? SO if your point is still valid that Hubbard was so awful all of last year, why have they kept him? ANd with the attached link stating Hubbard is improving, you want to just ignore it? The Browns didn't trade or draft a RT to replace Hubbard and you just want to ignore it?

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Joe-Thomas-Chris-Hubbard-improving-Browns-right-tackle-126371293/

You asked how would play LG? Fulton could be the LG. He has played LG with KC.

And Crosby would be the backup instead of Wheeler. Crosby was mentioned because of potential. Wheeler is a backup and will be nothing more than that. DO you agree?

On a macro level I think he's solid, he's a good talent evaluator and I agree with his inside-out roster building philosophy. On a micro level he's a little lacking, I don't think he's the most forward-thinking GM and he's left a lot of value out there in some of his choices. I also feel he completely botched his initial roster evaluation but gets a little slack because he pulled the cord early.

If he keeps hitting in the draft, the smaller stuff won't really matter as much, so it's definitely a wait and see.

Lots of terrific posts. I, too, am optimistic about the future based on roster moves and think DG has done a good job.

DG used draft picks and FA signings to get CAR and its pre-DG stars to the Super Bowl in year 3. I hope he gets at least that long in NY to complete the turnaround.

The youth movement is clear. Based on spotrac.com figures on existing contracts, the Giants are the 21st youngest in the league this year and 4th youngest next year. That translates to lower cost base contract deals for the next 3-5 years. Roster construction through the draft provides financial flexibility.

I expect a fairly conservative approach to FA spending until the verdict on Daniel Jones is in.

While I expect Jones to succeed, assume for the sake of argument that he doesn't. Assume the worst case scenario and at the end of the 2020 season, it's clear DJ is more Oliver than Andrew Luck. The Giants will have to pivot, but the roster and salary cap should be in a much, much better place to withstand such a blow which I think is worth mentioning as a credit to DG.

Under the worst case scenario, I'd compare the Giants to the Seahawks 2010-2012 pre Wilson, the Ravens pre-Jackson and the Bears pre-Trubisky - above average foundations waiting for the right QB. The Giants didn't have that foundation last year and may not have it yet.

The 3 drafts in place at the end of the 2020 season should be that solid foundation, regardless of how Jones plays. The picks on defense already (Hill, McIntosh, Lawrence, Carter, Ximines, Beal, Baker, Love) with 2-3 more next year means the foundation is well on its way. Those 3 drafts lessen a blown pick in the worst case scenario and do not set the franchise back 5 years as many argue.

Another benefit of selecting Jones this year instead of next is that should the Giants struggle this year and end up with a high pick in a QB-heavy draft, they can leverage the pick to a QB-needy team for additional picks (including a potential second 2021 1st rounder as insurance against a Jones failure in 2020).

Of course, if Jones succeeds, that's great!

A long way to say I think what DG is doing to the roster reflects that he's doing a good job.

In comment 14456255 JoeFootball said:

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On Braden Smith so your issue is with the team's doctors not the GM.

You have a link with that? Was it a red flag or a minor concern? I don't recall SY mentioning anything about SMith having this red flag. Matter of fact I found his review and saw no mention of red flag from him and I looked in the past and saw no red flags.

Matter of fact I read how Colts had big-time concerns from prior years in which their OLINE couldn't stay healthy. SO they are going to draft a guy who had injury concerns?

David Diehl said that several teams had a red flag on Smith the week after the 2018 draft on sirius XM. Who gave him this info, the Giants. No link just paying attention.