NFT: Knicks Chat: Trading for Bradley Beal vs. Anthony Davis

and see what happens than trade for Beal. I would definitely prefer trading the pick for Davis though.

yet your offer is nowhere close with salaries. 2 mil is basically nothing when trying to match salaries. Our team would be gutted to make the trade work. Also, if the trade happened prior to FA then we would be able to get both Durant and Irving. Don't really see the point.

a very good young player. Two things come into play here - what are the chances of keeping each when they become free agents and who would we have to give up to get them. Davis is clearly the better player.

Trade a lot but at least maybe you can keep Dotson and Mitch in this scenario because combined they make about $2 million. So $2 million in savings could be a big difference. Forgot that they #3 pick would have to be included for salary cap reasons so it would have to be #3 pick instead of Knox.

It is a lot more than you think

In comment 14455876 Ira said:

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a very good young player. Two things come into play here - what are the chances of keeping each when they become free agents and who would we have to give up to get them. Davis is clearly the better player.

Davis is the better player but Beal fits today's NBA almost perfectly. His defense is not the best but it is far from bad. I would be very happy acquiring Beal IF we also got to keep Robinson (assuming we signed 2 max's already this offseason).

AD is a top 5 talent, Beal is not.

Why make the trade for Beal over AD?
Personally I don't think Kyrie is come over. I think Walker is the 2nd max

In comment 14455917 larryflower37 said:

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AD is a top 5 talent, Beal is not. Why make the trade for Beal over AD? Personally I don't think Kyrie is come over. I think Walker is the 2nd max

Beal is under contract for an extra year so if AD won't sign an extension or the Pels take another team's offer over the Knicks than trading for Beal would make sense.

In comment 14455919 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14455917 larryflower37 said: Quote: AD is a top 5 talent, Beal is not. Why make the trade for Beal over AD? Personally I don't think Kyrie is come over. I think Walker is the 2nd max Beal is under contract for an extra year so if AD won't sign an extension or the Pels take another team's offer over the Knicks than trading for Beal would make sense.

Not really. A lot of us don't want to deal for AD for the simple fact that the team would be gutted and if everything goes to plan we will have 2 thirds of our superstars that are injury prone. So, if I or anybody else wouldn't want to deal for AD because of how it leaves our team completely bare then why would Beal change our minds? No thanks.

Beal could be our next best option.Ive looked at the cap breakdowns a bunch of times. Problem is unless Im missing something in the many nuances of allowable machinations under the Soft salary cap, trading for the 3rd max means we can not keep the 3rd pick. The salary hit is too high at approximately 7.5 million. And DSJ, Knox and Frank all must be sent back in the deal to squeeze the 3 salaries in.

I much prefer Davis if Im giving up RJ Barrett but Beal would not be a bad consolation prize.

Also holding a glimmer of hope that Kawhi somehow changes his mind about coming to NY as has been speculated. KD would likely have to come around and clear the air between them though. Those 2 would be by far the best combination of our 2 maxes. Two do it all players with almost no holes in their games. Unlikely but it would be pretty amazing.

In comment 14455922 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14455919 Strahan91 said: Quote: In comment 14455917 larryflower37 said: Quote: AD is a top 5 talent, Beal is not. Why make the trade for Beal over AD? Personally I don't think Kyrie is come over. I think Walker is the 2nd max Beal is under contract for an extra year so if AD won't sign an extension or the Pels take another team's offer over the Knicks than trading for Beal would make sense. Not really. A lot of us don't want to deal for AD for the simple fact that the team would be gutted and if everything goes to plan we will have 2 thirds of our superstars that are injury prone. So, if I or anybody else wouldn't want to deal for AD because of how it leaves our team completely bare then why would Beal change our minds? No thanks.

The Miami model worked pretty well and they were able to fill out their initially gutted roster with some pretty good role players and vet ring chasers.

Of a team that was bare to begin with not a team with developing talent that would also have to give up draft picks. The guys they had would be better than what we would get as well. Lebron was in his prime as was Wade. Different situations.

.

In comment 14455973 robbieballs2003 said:

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they each took 1 million less and they were sign trades so they got 6 years

In comment 14455970 robbieballs2003 said:

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Of a team that was bare to begin with not a team with developing talent that would also have to give up draft picks. The guys they had would be better than what we would get as well. Lebron was in his prime as was Wade. Different situations.

Robbie you are correct that the analogy isnt perfect.

The situation is similar in regards to having to resort to a bunch of low salary contracts to fill out your roster.

The roster construction was a successful one. Personally I think Knox Frank or DSJ arent invaluable peices tou cant win without each one has glaring holes to their games which cap their ceilings quite a bit. RJ Barrett will be a rookie who likely takes a few years to get into a place where inconsistency especially come playoff time wont be a factor any more.

We are talking about a top 5 NBA talent in AD here. And if/ when KD comes on board this instantly becomes a win now team.

Elaborating just how deep the ties are for KD and the Knicks.

This doesn't gaurantee anything but it sure seems like the connections are extremely strong.

A reminder amidst all the chaotic misinformation out there right now.
5 reasons why KD to Knicks strong possibility - ( New Window )

In comment 14455978 Giantz_comeback said:

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In comment 14455970 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Of a team that was bare to begin with not a team with developing talent that would also have to give up draft picks. The guys they had would be better than what we would get as well. Lebron was in his prime as was Wade. Different situations. /////////// [quote]And DSJ, Knox and Frank all must be sent back in the deal to squeeze the 3 salaries in. [prior giantz comment]

Robbie you are correct that the analogy isnt perfect.

The situation is similar in regards to having to resort to a bunch of low salary contracts to fill out your roster.
Personally I think Knox Frank or DSJ arent invaluable peices tou cant win without each one has glaring holes to their games which cap their ceilings quite a bit.RJ Barrett will be a rookie who likely takes a few years to get into a place where inconsistency especially come playoff time wont be a factor any more.

We are talking about a top 5 NBA talent in AD here. ... [/quote]This is just one example of the fallacy of Knicks' fans thinking here: the guys that are identified for inclusion in a trade for AD (or Beal, etc.) are deemed entirely dispensable pieces with 'glaring holes to their games', yet somehow, the team on the other end of these transactions is going to be looking at these same players as indispensable roster pieces in consideration for shipping out a top x talent??? Living an unreal world.

ugh

The Knicks are in a very unique position in that they can build both for the short and long haul. They have several quality young players — DSJ, Knox, Robinson, Barrett and Trier are all 19-21 + they have six first round picks over the next four years + they have enough cap space for two max contracts.

Thus, I hope they use their cap space and continue to grow their young players rather than trading a haul to get AD. I am particularly concerned that AD can leave after one year and it would take one Dolan dumb move and he could decide he doesn’t want to stay.

And on Beal, I’d rather keep Barrett on a rookie deal than taking on Beal’s near max.

If the Knicks do this right, they could be a contender for a decade.

In comment 14456003 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 14455978 Giantz_comeback said: Quote: In comment 14455970 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Of a team that was bare to begin with not a team with developing talent that would also have to give up draft picks. The guys they had would be better than what we would get as well. Lebron was in his prime as was Wade. Different situations. /////////// [quote]And DSJ, Knox and Frank all must be sent back in the deal to squeeze the 3 salaries in. [prior giantz comment] Robbie you are correct that the analogy isnt perfect. The situation is similar in regards to having to resort to a bunch of low salary contracts to fill out your roster. Personally I think Knox Frank or DSJ arent invaluable peices tou cant win without each one has glaring holes to their games which cap their ceilings quite a bit.RJ Barrett will be a rookie who likely takes a few years to get into a place where inconsistency especially come playoff time wont be a factor any more. We are talking about a top 5 NBA talent in AD here. ...

This is just one example of the fallacy of Knicks' fans thinking here: the guys that are identified for inclusion in a trade for AD (or Beal, etc.) are deemed entirely dispensable pieces with 'glaring holes to their games', yet somehow, the team on the other end of these transactions is going to be looking at these same players as indispensable roster pieces in consideration for shipping out a top x talent??? Living an unreal world. [/quote]

What you are missing is that trades for top stars in the NBA rarely bring back a guy of the same talent back. Secondly the players mentioned have upsides of potentially decent complementary peices but obviously not a Super Star "5 tool player" of the ilk like an Anthony Davis. Next take a look at all the deals that were made for top stars over the last 20 years or so. How many brought back 'indispensable'players to the team giving up one? Usually its the draft picks that are what drive it because in a draft pick there is the HOPE you may find that next great player.

Lastly related to that last point the 'centerpiece ' of a deal for AD would be our third overall pick this year which is likely to be RJ Barrett. I would imagine Griffin would see him as a potential great player and team and cost controlled building block to play along side his former teammate Zion Williamson.

but right now I’d lean against the AD trade too, assuming two legit max players are signing. These top East teams - Milwaukee, Toronto, Philly, Boston - are all good, but not great. KD, Kyrie and a strong supporting cast can hang with any of them. I would tinker a bit with the supporting cast by trying to move one or two of the scorers - Knox, Smith, Barrett - for some shooting. We desperately need shooting.

In comment 14456051 bceagle05 said:

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but right now I’d lean against the AD trade too, assuming two legit max players are signing. These top East teams - Milwaukee, Toronto, Philly, Boston - are all good, but not great. KD, Kyrie and a strong supporting cast can hang with any of them. I would tinker a bit with the supporting cast by trying to move one or two of the scorers - Knox, Smith, Barrett - for some shooting. We desperately need shooting.

bc it is certainly possible even likely that a team tweaked around KD and Kyrie would still be very good. But we are not talking about deep runs on the playoffs or even making it to the finals. We are talking about winning it all. A 3rd max with the flexibility the soft cap allows us would still allow us to sign vet role players and ring chasers. So I believe the end team assembled with all 3 of KD Kyrie and AD would be a better overall team. And much more likely to beat the Warriors and whoever else from the West could rise up after this offseason. With that said The X factor in this is just how good RJ Barrett is and how quickly can he become a star. But rather than gamble on his greatness I would be the more sure thing already established top 5 player in the NBA entering his prime at 26.

Is that he can walk at the end of the season. Some argue that it’s a slam dunk he re-signs: he wants to be here to play with KD! But it’s not written in stone and there’s a lot of scenarios where it could blow up:

1] He doesn’t mesh with KD & Kyrie.
2) KD or Kyrie sustains an injury that will keep them out in 2020.
3) He doesn’t like NY
4) He decides he doesn’t like or trust management.

Bottom line: if anything goes wrong next year, he can and will walk. And then the Knicks are out 5-6 #1 picks with no way to get better.

In comment 14456078 Jim in Fairfax said:

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Is that he can walk at the end of the season. Some argue that it’s a slam dunk he re-signs: he wants to be here to play with KD! But it’s not written in stone and there’s a lot of scenarios where it could blow up: 1] He doesn’t mesh with KD & Kyrie. 2) KD or Kyrie sustains an injury that will keep them out in 2020. 3) He doesn’t like NY 4) He decides he doesn’t like or trust management. You don’t make that trade unless he signs long term. Bottom line: if anything goes wrong next year, he can and will walk. And then the Knicks are out 5-6 #1 picks with no way to get better.

In comment 14456078 Jim in Fairfax said:

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Is that he can walk at the end of the season. Some argue that it’s a slam dunk he re-signs: he wants to be here to play with KD! But it’s not written in stone and there’s a lot of scenarios where it could blow up: 1] He doesn’t mesh with KD & Kyrie. 2) KD or Kyrie sustains an injury that will keep them out in 2020. 3) He doesn’t like NY 4) He decides he doesn’t like or trust management. Bottom line: if anything goes wrong next year, he can and will walk. And then the Knicks are out 5-6 #1 picks with no way to get better.

5-6 #1 picks? I am assuming you mean guys who were already selected in the first rd too?

Well most of them are not going to ever become superstars. All worth trading for AD. Toronto gave up a better player than any of them in Derozen for Kawhi. Also if he comes here the likelihood of him and KD and whoever else we sign meshing is pretty good.

You don't do the deal without it.
AD has already said he will extend with a handful of teams and the Knicks are on that list.

In comment 14456315 larryflower37 said:

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You don't do the deal without it. AD has already said he will extend with a handful of teams and the Knicks are on that list.

Yes he did

Or no deal.

But he REALLY needs to improve that shot if he wants to be a difference maker in the NBA. He also needs to learn how to distribute the ball. He's a good passer when he wants to be, but too often the possession ends with him. I see what people see in him. I mean Barrett can basically score at will and with his handle he can easily play point and bring the ball up. But Barrett is far from a sure thing and frankly, I don't know how a ball-dominant player can complement Durant or even a guy like Knox. I think he's a high-risk, high-reward player.


What about Jaylen Hands with our second round pick? And if we trade Frank for a late first, early-second, how about that Croatian stretch Samanic or that Florida State kid?

into a report what they want to believe.

The report from Stein of NYT was that an anonymous source said that AD had informed the Pels that there were four teams he "would be willing" to sign a long term extension with, and Knicks were one.

This does not, as I understand it, mean that a long term extension either will or can be part of the trade itself.

The team trading away assets must, again as I understand it, rely on a belief in the future willingness of AD to sign an extension.

And the assets don't come back if AD decides that his theoretical willingness doesn't actually translate to a desire to sign up for the long term when the time comes.

nyt - ( New Window )

He cannot until the Spring of 2020. Lots can happen between the first game of the season in October and re-signing time in the following spring.
Even if AD has the best intentions, something, anything could change.

At least wilt Melo, the Knicks were about to acquire and sign on the same day.

And that’s why I would not do the deal. It’s just too much of a risk to give up the third pick in the draft, Knox, Robinson, DSJ and a couple of firsts. And that is the package most bandied about by the media.

Cannot be extended right after the trade? Is this similar to the Kyrie Boston thing?

I am 100% sure. AD is not a free agent and won’t be until June 30, 2020
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14456021 PhilSimms15 said:

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The Knicks are in a very unique position in that they can build both for the short and long haul. They have several quality young players — DSJ, Knox, Robinson, Barrett and Trier are all 19-21 + they have six first round picks over the next four years + they have enough cap space for two max contracts. Thus, I hope they use their cap space and continue to grow their young players rather than trading a haul to get AD. I am particularly concerned that AD can leave after one year and it would take one Dolan dumb move and he could decide he doesn’t want to stay. And on Beal, I’d rather keep Barrett on a rookie deal than taking on Beal’s near max. If the Knicks do this right, they could be a contender for a decade.

This +1

In comment 14456323 Anakim said:

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But he REALLY needs to improve that shot if he wants to be a difference maker in the NBA. He also needs to learn how to distribute the ball. He's a good passer when he wants to be, but too often the possession ends with him. I see what people see in him. I mean Barrett can basically score at will and with his handle he can easily play point and bring the ball up. But Barrett is far from a sure thing and frankly, I don't know how a ball-dominant player can complement Durant or even a guy like Knox. I think he's a high-risk, high-reward player. What about Jaylen Hands with our second round pick? And if we trade Frank for a late first, early-second, how about that Croatian stretch Samanic or that Florida State kid?

If you remember when OKC had westbrook KD and Harden they traded Harden away and that was one of the main reasons.

If KD and Kyrie come AD is probably a better fit than Barrett. Even if it were Butler or Kawhi , AD would still be the better fit.

In comment 14456419 Giantz_comeback said:

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In comment 14456323 Anakim said: Quote: But he REALLY needs to improve that shot if he wants to be a difference maker in the NBA. He also needs to learn how to distribute the ball. He's a good passer when he wants to be, but too often the possession ends with him. I see what people see in him. I mean Barrett can basically score at will and with his handle he can easily play point and bring the ball up. But Barrett is far from a sure thing and frankly, I don't know how a ball-dominant player can complement Durant or even a guy like Knox. I think he's a high-risk, high-reward player. What about Jaylen Hands with our second round pick? And if we trade Frank for a late first, early-second, how about that Croatian stretch Samanic or that Florida State kid? If you remember when OKC had westbrook KD and Harden they traded Harden away and that was one of the main reasons. If KD and Kyrie come AD is probably a better fit than Barrett. Even if it were Butler or Kawhi , AD would still be the better fit.

You can't judge Barrett's shot selection off of one season in college where the other big star on the team missed half the season. Of course he's going to take a ton of shots. I liked more of what I saw in the tournament, specifically the Michigan St game where I thought he hit some big 3's in rythym. If he comes in as a rookie playing with 2 superstars I guarantee he will defer more.

Do they have to send back the $20 million or so to get Davis or Beal. For exampl what if they just go for a big 2 of Durant and either Beal or Davis and then fill in the remaining cap space with vets. Can they trade like $10 mil in salary and draft picks for those players or do they need to get to $20 million for trading rules purposes?

In comment 14456930 GMEN46 said:

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Do they have to send back the $20 million or so to get Davis or Beal. For exampl what if they just go for a big 2 of Durant and either Beal or Davis and then fill in the remaining cap space with vets. Can they trade like $10 mil in salary and draft picks for those players or do they need to get to $20 million for trading rules purposes?

they can trade nothing and still add a max to davis or beal...that is the flexibility the knicks have..

I know it is chris carter but he is close to kawhi's uncle and he keeps mentioning the knicks for kawhi

I heard I think about a year and a half ago and I wrote on here. A sports doctor who works closely with the nba and nba players told my friend that Kawhi and Kyrie both plan on signing with the Knicks when they become free agents. That would be hilarious if it actually happened. Also if Durant decides to stay in golden state it would save about $6 mil in 2019 because Kawhi Max is same as Kyrie I believe, someone can fact check me on that.

on either LA team.

In comment 14456021 PhilSimms15 said:

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The Knicks are in a very unique position in that they can build both for the short and long haul. They have several quality young players — DSJ, Knox, Robinson, Barrett and Trier are all 19-21 + they have six first round picks over the next four years + they have enough cap space for two max contracts. Thus, I hope they use their cap space and continue to grow their young players rather than trading a haul to get AD. I am particularly concerned that AD can leave after one year and it would take one Dolan dumb move and he could decide he doesn’t want to stay. And on Beal, I’d rather keep Barrett on a rookie deal than taking on Beal’s near max. If the Knicks do this right, they could be a contender for a decade.

+1 2 max contracts coming in, lots of young talent and draft picks down the road. Build it up.

duo. Not getting my hopes up, though.

he is one of the top maybe 3 players in the league. And still young. I dont know the whole durant/kawhi thing, but if we could get those two this would be a title favorite day 1.

In comment 14457094 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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on either LA team.

Odds on where Kawhi Leonard will play next season:

Clippers +120
Raptors +125
Lakers +300
Nets +650
Knicks +700

But somehow I don't see him having a year like this in Toronto and then just walking away after 1 season. Although Gasol is a FA option too so who knows what they'll look like next year.

Alan Hahn
@alanhahn
Some #Knicks pre-draft buzz: expect a wide net to be cast w/ workouts, including names that aren't projected No. 3. Why? 1. due diligence. 2. to see if there's value in quantity if there's a deal to be made to trade down. That 3 pick, however, seems to have the most value.

Cam Reddish, Jarrett Culver, Coby White and Nassir Little

That's why it's good to have RJ Barrett as the projected pick,can't trust these guys.

working out with knicks june 10th