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NFT: Jeopardy Spoiler

BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/3/2019 9:09 am
Apparently James is going to loose tonight. Hip was talking about it this morning onnthe Boomer and Gio show that he stumbled upon it on Twitter it something.

However, I’m pretty sure they tape multiple shows a day, so it might not be tonight or even tomorrow for that matter.
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He  
myquealer : 6/3/2019 10:32 am : link
did not abandon his strategy with a small bet if he was in second place going into Final Jeopardy. A small bet is the correct move going into Final if you're in second place and it's not a runaway.

Say you have $9,000 and your opponent has $10,000. To avoid getting beat the leader has to bet $8,001. If you're in second a small bet gets you the win in two of the four possible scenarios. If you're right and your opponent is wrong, you win. If you're both right, you lose. If your opponent is right and you're wrong, you lose. If you're both wrong, and you bet small you will win as your opponent is down to $1,999 and since you made a small bet you have more.

James, being a professional gambler would certainly realize this, even though most contestants apparently don't.
He'll be back for the All-Star week, whenever that is  
Anakim : 6/3/2019 10:37 am : link
It'll be exciting seeing him go against Ken Jennings, Brad, Buzzy, Austin...
why the hell wouldn't he bet big?  
Jints in Carolina : 6/3/2019 10:44 am : link
Something stinks here.
It really really sucks  
cjac : 6/3/2019 10:54 am : link
that this leaked
And its definitely  
cjac : 6/3/2019 10:55 am : link
tonights show
Jints..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/3/2019 10:55 am : link
myquealer sums it up very well.

Game theory has the best strategy betting small because it gives you the best chance of winning, especially if the category sounds challenging. If both players get it right, you have to assume if it isn't a runaway, that the leader is going to be $1 more than the maximum James can finish at, so James loses anyway. But if both players get it wrong, James likely wins.
RE: Jints..  
Jints in Carolina : 6/3/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14461462 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
myquealer sums it up very well.

Game theory has the best strategy betting small because it gives you the best chance of winning, especially if the category sounds challenging. If both players get it right, you have to assume if it isn't a runaway, that the leader is going to be $1 more than the maximum James can finish at, so James loses anyway. But if both players get it wrong, James likely wins.


Yeah I understand it now...sucks he lost and what's worse is we all know about it beforehand.
RE: RE: Jints..  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/3/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14461464 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 14461462 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


myquealer sums it up very well.

Game theory has the best strategy betting small because it gives you the best chance of winning, especially if the category sounds challenging. If both players get it right, you have to assume if it isn't a runaway, that the leader is going to be $1 more than the maximum James can finish at, so James loses anyway. But if both players get it wrong, James likely wins.



Yeah I understand it now...sucks he lost and what's worse is we all know about it beforehand.


I really don't agree with that strategy. Yes it is correct if this is your first playing the game. Of course you want to continue on, but for James why would he give one F.

He's always been a go big or go home kind of guy. Why not go big in this case?
Betting small there is the smart play  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/3/2019 11:57 am : link
assuming the spoilers prove correct.

Don't forget that he often had a runaway lead when the Final Jeopardy round was played, giving him the freedom to bet big and still be safe.
James wasn't a go big or go home guy, he was a guy that would  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/3/2019 12:03 pm : link
statistically make the right play, which just so happens to be bet big most the time. Lol I feel like the same people that don't understand this is the right play are the same ones that killed Shurmur going for two when we went from 14 down to 8 down after a td.
James is not a go big or go home kind of guy  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/3/2019 12:13 pm : link
that strategy suggests recklessness. James wasn't reckless-- he was calculating. He is an analytics-driven gambler who understands that the bigger the edge, the more one should press that edge (like card-counters changing their wagers to reflect the deck count).

In this case, a smaller wager theoretically improved his chance of winning and so he followed that strategy.

If spoiler report is correct...  
moze1021 : 6/3/2019 12:41 pm : link
there was no way he could win unless the other person got Final Jeopardy wrong...

So how much he bet is completely irrelevant.

He has been incredibly lucky with true daily doubles... my guess is he either didn't get to play any daily doubles or he lost a significant amount in one of them.

I won't watch tonight. I don't want to reward Jeopardy for leaking it to boost ratings tonight and get one last big viewership win out of James...if that's what happened.
RE: If spoiler report is correct...  
cjac : 6/3/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14461565 moze1021 said:
Quote:
there was no way he could win unless the other person got Final Jeopardy wrong...

So how much he bet is completely irrelevant.

He has been incredibly lucky with true daily doubles... my guess is he either didn't get to play any daily doubles or he lost a significant amount in one of them.

I won't watch tonight. I don't want to reward Jeopardy for leaking it to boost ratings tonight and get one last big viewership win out of James...if that's what happened.


It's correct, i saw the leaked clip, and its tonights episode
Betting small  
Big Al : 6/3/2019 1:04 pm : link
in second place protects you from being caught by the person in third place if you are currently more than twice their total (but ignore if your have to bet more to pass first place current total. First priority is to assure you win if you get right and first place person gets it wrong.)
Also  
Big Al : 6/3/2019 1:15 pm : link
Bet small in second place if you are not double third place to keep yourself above third place current total if they bet 0 which is sometimes their best strategy.
Joey and his fiance...  
Maryland Giant : 6/3/2019 1:16 pm : link
...figured this out days ago.
i left something out of my last post  
Big Al : 6/3/2019 1:20 pm : link
But you also must bet enough to assure you beat them if you both get correct and third wages everything.
RE: Joey and his fiance...  
Tesla : 6/3/2019 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14461633 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
...figured this out days ago.


Now this is a quality post. Well done sir.
RE: Joey and his fiance...  
j_rud : 6/3/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14461633 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
...figured this out days ago.


The signs were all there, not his fault if you're too dumb to read the tea leaves.
I wouldn't count out the show itself  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/3/2019 2:25 pm : link
for leaking it, but that said, there is a horrible spoiler culture going on these days and I wish there were a more effective way to combat it.

That the New York Post wrote an article with the news is shameful. Then again, it's the NY Post and they've never had any shame, so I'm not surprised.
RE: RE: If spoiler report is correct...  
moze1021 : 6/3/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14461598 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 14461565 moze1021 said:


Quote:


there was no way he could win unless the other person got Final Jeopardy wrong...

So how much he bet is completely irrelevant.

He has been incredibly lucky with true daily doubles... my guess is he either didn't get to play any daily doubles or he lost a significant amount in one of them.

I won't watch tonight. I don't want to reward Jeopardy for leaking it to boost ratings tonight and get one last big viewership win out of James...if that's what happened.



It's correct, i saw the leaked clip, and its tonights episode


Right...so then why in the world is anyone debating his bid strategy for Final Jeopardy??

There was no amount he could have bid that would have allowed him to win unless she got the answer wrong. Completely inconsequential.
RE: I wouldn't count out the show itself  
moze1021 : 6/3/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14461812 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
for leaking it, but that said, there is a horrible spoiler culture going on these days and I wish there were a more effective way to combat it.

That the New York Post wrote an article with the news is shameful. Then again, it's the NY Post and they've never had any shame, so I'm not surprised.


Yeah I said that a couple posts up.. last gasp to get a boost in viewership for tonight's show and then Jeopardy goes back to its normal ratings.
RE: If spoiler report is correct...  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/3/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14461565 moze1021 said:
Quote:

I won't watch tonight. I don't want to reward Jeopardy for leaking it to boost ratings tonight and get one last big viewership win out of James...if that's what happened.

Unless you’re a Nielsen family whether you watch or not makes no difference.
I won't watch my recording later because I was  
LS : 6/3/2019 6:16 pm : link
rooting for him each night. The same as when I have a Giants game recorded that I can't watch in real time. If I find out they lost, I just delete it.
Ken Jennings remains the GOAT  
dpinzow : 6/3/2019 7:34 pm : link
74 straight wins is a virtually unbreakable record
Not how I would have expected him to go out.  
Mad Mike : 6/3/2019 7:36 pm : link
With his aggressive betting, I figured he'd be in a relatively tight game in double jeopardy, bet big on a daily double and get it wrong. Good fortune for her to get both daily doubles in double jeopardy, but credit to her for being aggressive with them, and for overall playing really well.
He didn't play badly.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/3/2019 7:46 pm : link
The last place guy was actually enough of a nuisance that neither of the top 2 finishers could open up any distance.

However, I didn't quite understand his conservative Final Jeopardy bet.
RE: He didn't play badly.  
dpinzow : 6/3/2019 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14462078 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
The last place guy was actually enough of a nuisance that neither of the top 2 finishers could open up any distance.

However, I didn't quite understand his conservative Final Jeopardy bet.


He had to ensure that the 3rd place player couldn't pass him. He knew that the first place player would bet $1 dollar more than his maximum bet so all he had to do is box out the 3rd place player and hope the leader going into Final Jeopardy lost. Nothing fishy at all about it
There is an argument for Holzhauer being the GOAT  
dpinzow : 6/3/2019 7:56 pm : link
if he wins the tournament of champions. Remarkably, Ken Jennings did not win the tournament of champions after he won 74 in a row. He finished 2nd in the final game played over 2 nights
RE: RE: He didn't play badly.  
Mad Mike : 6/3/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14462079 dpinzow said:
Quote:
He had to ensure that the 3rd place player couldn't pass him. He knew that the first place player would bet $1 dollar more than his maximum bet so all he had to do is box out the 3rd place player and hope the leader going into Final Jeopardy lost. Nothing fishy at all about it

It creates an interesting game theory problem. His bet was reasonable, but could have been predicted. And if she'd predicted it, she could have bet $1800, and locked in victory as long as she and James were both right or both wrong. As it is, she'd have lost if she was wrong. Of course, it would have been truly awful if she did that, but James bet more aggressively and she lost despite getting final jeopardy right. That'd be pretty hard to live with.
RE: There is an argument for Holzhauer being the GOAT  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/3/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14462084 dpinzow said:
Quote:
if he wins the tournament of champions. Remarkably, Ken Jennings did not win the tournament of champions after he won 74 in a row. He finished 2nd in the final game played over 2 nights

Returning champions have a big advantage over their opponents in that they have experience playing the game. The biggest factor is working the clicker, but just developing a general comfort in being on stage and playing the game is big too. This gives a talented champion the opportunity to make a run of wins against inexperienced players.

In a tournament of champions setting that advantage doesn’t exist.
Damn  
BTNasty : 6/3/2019 8:49 pm : link
Was it really necessary to post this thread? Let alone with the thread title "Jeopardy Spoilers" as if it would be anything other than James losing tonight? What a bummer to have followed this whole thing for the past month only to watch the show tonight already knowing in the back of our minds he was going to lose thanks to your shitty thread.

I realize I sound like a dick but man, people really don't think.
RE: RE: There is an argument for Holzhauer being the GOAT  
dpinzow : 6/3/2019 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14462116 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14462084 dpinzow said:


Quote:


if he wins the tournament of champions. Remarkably, Ken Jennings did not win the tournament of champions after he won 74 in a row. He finished 2nd in the final game played over 2 nights


Returning champions have a big advantage over their opponents in that they have experience playing the game. The biggest factor is working the clicker, but just developing a general comfort in being on stage and playing the game is big too. This gives a talented champion the opportunity to make a run of wins against inexperienced players.

In a tournament of champions setting that advantage doesn’t exist.


This is true but they also have a disadvantage of possibly playing 5 games in a row in one day of taping. By the fifth game, somebody's brain might be mush
RE: Damn  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/3/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14462134 BTNasty said:
Quote:
Was it really necessary to post this thread? Let alone with the thread title "Jeopardy Spoilers" as if it would be anything other than James losing tonight? What a bummer to have followed this whole thing for the past month only to watch the show tonight already knowing in the back of our minds he was going to lose thanks to your shitty thread.

I realize I sound like a dick but man, people really don't think.


He could have crushed the record today. That literally could have been the spoiler.

Blame Jeopardy though since they leaked the video to make sure they got the ratings.
RE: RE: Damn  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/3/2019 9:23 pm : link
In comment 14462140 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:

Blame Jeopardy though since they leaked the video to make sure they got the ratings.

Perhaps. Or blame an employee at one of the hundreds of affiliate stations who received the recorded program on Friday. There are thousands of people who had the opportunity to leak this.
I already think he's the GOAT  
moespree : 6/3/2019 9:58 pm : link
I think he'd destroy Jennings. I noticed when watching some of those special tournaments they have, Jennings is not particularly fast on the buzzer, or at least wasn't in the recent tournaments. But he does know a lot. When he buzzes in he rarely gets it wrong. He's a conservative better though, which is why I think James would destroy him.

I would like to see him up against that guy Brad though. That would be interesting. I don't think Brad ever lost. Was on when they had the 5 day limit and never lost any tournament he was part of since.
Had to work late so I missed the episode. Not gonna watch it now.  
Jim in Hoboken : 6/3/2019 11:55 pm : link
Supposedly he went 25 for 25, while the winner went 22 for 22. I guess he didn’t grab as many DD’s like he usually did.
I want to point out that Jennings' loss leaked too  
BestFeature : 6/3/2019 11:57 pm : link
And that was back in 2004 I believe.
Betting small would have been odd for Emma,  
CT Charlie : 6/4/2019 12:04 am : link
given that she was an English major at Princeton who wrote her thesis on Shakespeare's plays.
RE: Had to work late so I missed the episode. Not gonna watch it now.  
LS : 6/4/2019 8:49 am : link
In comment 14462286 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Supposedly he went 25 for 25, while the winner went 22 for 22. I guess he didn’t grab as many DD’s like he usually did.


His first pick was a Daily Double and he had no money to bet. She got both of the Daily Doubles in Double Jeopardy. She only bet 3K on the first, and 7 on the second one I believe. That's why she ended up winning, she got those Daily Doubles and got them right.
RE: I already think he's the GOAT  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/4/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14462210 moespree said:
Quote:
I think he'd destroy Jennings. I noticed when watching some of those special tournaments they have, Jennings is not particularly fast on the buzzer, or at least wasn't in the recent tournaments. But he does know a lot. When he buzzes in he rarely gets it wrong. He's a conservative better though, which is why I think James would destroy him.

I would like to see him up against that guy Brad though. That would be interesting. I don't think Brad ever lost. Was on when they had the 5 day limit and never lost any tournament he was part of since.


I read up on old Ken Jennings a bit yesterday. He said that timing is crucial when playing the game. The show went out of their way to change the pace of the opening to the show, like not announcing his total winnings, and implemented a more efficient buzzer system to eventually knock Ken out. It was very interesting.
RE: RE: Had to work late so I missed the episode. Not gonna watch it now.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/4/2019 9:04 am : link
In comment 14462375 LS said:
Quote:
In comment 14462286 Jim in Hoboken said:


Quote:


Supposedly he went 25 for 25, while the winner went 22 for 22. I guess he didn’t grab as many DD’s like he usually did.



His first pick was a Daily Double and he had no money to bet. She got both of the Daily Doubles in Double Jeopardy. She only bet 3K on the first, and 7 on the second one I believe. That's why she ended up winning, she got those Daily Doubles and got them right.


She did a true Daily Double on the first one - which gave her the lead. It was only a $800 question. The second Daily Double was a $2000 and she had the lead and bet small - might have been the $3K referenced above. And I think at the end of Double Jeopardy, she was winning by $2K
RE: RE: He didn't play badly.  
islander1 : 6/4/2019 9:32 am : link
In comment 14462079 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 14462078 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


The last place guy was actually enough of a nuisance that neither of the top 2 finishers could open up any distance.

However, I didn't quite understand his conservative Final Jeopardy bet.



He had to ensure that the 3rd place player couldn't pass him. He knew that the first place player would bet $1 dollar more than his maximum bet so all he had to do is box out the 3rd place player and hope the leader going into Final Jeopardy lost. Nothing fishy at all about it


This. Exactly this.

All he could control was the person behind him which mattered in this case. He could've dumped all of his money into the bid but it wouldn't matter because he expected the leader to box HIM out.

Which she did.

At that point, you just hope she's wrong. She wasn't.
Would be interesting  
Metnut : 6/4/2019 9:50 am : link
if Emma had taken game theory to the next level and assume that James would make the wager that he did and thus just bet $0 or something herself.

I doubt anyone would ever do that, but if you assume James' would follow the book on game theory in that spot, you could really exploit that if you had the guts and were really confident in what he'd wager.
RE: Would be interesting  
Metnut : 6/4/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14462429 Metnut said:
Quote:
if Emma had taken game theory to the next level and assume that James would make the wager that he did and thus just bet $0 or something herself.

I doubt anyone would ever do that, but if you assume James' would follow the book on game theory in that spot, you could really exploit that if you had the guts and were really confident in what he'd wager.


Of course, while James is maybe the best player ever, most other jeopardy contestants are smart people who are otherwise really bad at wagering and game theory. You'd never want to try such a play against the typical opponent. Most people in James spot don't even think and best close to all-in there.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/4/2019 9:55 am : link
Emma being a librarian who did extensive study about literature felt pretty confident about the Final Jeopardy question though.

If the topic was "Famous Cricketeers", maybe she'd have employed a different strategy, maybe not.
I read an interview with Emma  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/4/2019 10:53 am : link
she said that betting 0 was a possibility, but that a Final Jeopardy relating to Shakespeare was a dream situation for her and she decided to bet on herself. She would have kicked herself if she got it right but lost because she didn't bet enough.

When Emma bet only $3000 in double jeopardy, I'm pretty sure she was up 10,400 to 7,800. It was a good opportunity to pad her lead but keep her right there with James had she gotten it wrong.

She also discusses how she would watch Jeopardy at home with a grid marking off what she got wrong and what she got right so that she developed an understanding of her success rates at various rows of questions which she used to inform her wagering strategy.


https://www.vulture.com/2019/06/jeopardy-emma-boettcher-james-holzhauer-defeat-interview.html - ( New Window )
didn't this guy win only half  
RasputinPrime : 6/4/2019 1:34 pm : link
as many games as Jennings?

72 in a row far more impressive in my book.
RE: didn't this guy win only half  
Metnut : 6/4/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14462694 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
as many games as Jennings?

72 in a row far more impressive in my book.


But he won essentially the same amount of money.

Jennings also hasn't faired too great (not bad by any means to be fair) in some champions tournaments that he's been in. We'll see how James does in these.
James..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/4/2019 2:54 pm : link
also was much more dominant. A lot of it is based on his betting strategy, but he only had 3 games where it wasn't a runaway.

Ken Jennings only had 14 games that were a runaway.
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