Want no part of a one-year rental for the guy, unless it's straight-up for Frank or something ridiculous. Basically, if it's trading for one year of the guy, fugeddaboudit.
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
If they go all in for him boston will field the best offer for AD...
Want no part of a one-year rental for the guy, unless it's straight-up for Frank or something ridiculous. Basically, if it's trading for one year of the guy, fugeddaboudit.
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Davis not helping Ws more than Robinson...that may be nuts. But I agree most aren't appreciating Davis will take more 'fitting' and won't guarantee NYK is a legit contender just like that, tho they'll be a top team in the east (even if it's behind Tor / Mil etc)
Everything else you said makes total sense. If not guaranteed an extension w/ AD, it's tough to give up a slew of assets. And there's a lot of value in keeping & developing, especially Mitch, #3 & future 1sts among others. That way regardless of what happens w/ FAs - whoever NYK gets and however that plays out - they won't destroy the foundation if and when those guys become disgruntled / demand trades / leave or whatever
Yes, you're nuts if you'd rather have Barrett than Davis
I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Yes you're nuts.
Starting to get a bad feeling about this offseason
I will be ok with it as long as we dont make stupid decisions like maxing the wrong guy ie cousins or kemba or trading an oversized contract.
If they completely strike out they should sign vets to large one year deals. Ie reddick, Beverly, deandre Jordan and Danny green. At the trade deadline trade these guys to playoff teams for assets. Just keep collecting assets. Unfortunately I believe 2020 free agency is terrible.
This is another trap. Don't fall for it. The Knicks FINALLY have the assets (e.g., multiple first round picks) that can help them to get where they want. Now is not the time to fall for this bullshit.
I have a hard time letting the young guys like Mitch, Knox, and Smith go. Even Dotson and Trier. They have the potential to grow into a great supporting cast for our 2 maxes.
We also get Barrett and have the 1st round picks. That's an AWFUL lot to give up for AD without a guaranteed contract.
then i think we are better off not trading for AD. We would give up most of our assets for him and not have much else. At that point id rather take our chances of signing him next offseason.
i think we can officially put to rest the idea that NY/MSG is a place that players really want to come to. It would be a place that makes people short list but not their final choice.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
I am thinking the same thing. If Golden State loses the series then I can see him going back for another year and then hitting the market next year instead.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
i think we can officially put to rest the idea that NY/MSG is a place that players really want to come to. It would be a place that makes people short list but not their final choice.
yeah if they can no one there is a good chance no top free agent ever comes until their young guys mature into something...
I want AD is if we have already signed two max guys and he is the third max. Signing one then moving all these pieces to have him as our 2nd max and depleting the roster is not smart UNLESS we need to trade for him in order to entice KD etc
I'm more worried about the Knicks picking Culver over Barrett than I am the free agency stuff.
I really have no idea if Durant is coming or not, but I'm sure he has no idea yet what he is going to do. Regarding, Irving, never wanted him anyways unless Durant came.
I want AD is if we have already signed two max guys and he is the third max. Signing one then moving all these pieces to have him as our 2nd max and depleting the roster is not smart UNLESS we need to trade for him in order to entice KD etc
That would be preferable but even as the 2nd peice we still potentially would have more cap flexibility to go after better players vs vet mins or ring chasers signing for significantly less.
but the fact is that AD >> Kyrie (at least as far as I see it). So, if we get KD and AD, without giving up all our assets, that's a big win, IMO.
What I hope doesn't happen is whiffing on FA and then giving assets and cap space for AD. If that happens, we'd be basically trading places with the Pelicans.
On multiple occasions he would sign long term here. It's a non issue.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Its very much an issue. He wont sign until after the 2019-20 season. A lot can happen in that time. He could hate NY. He could hate Durant/Kyrie/Whoever. He could hate Fizdsle/front office. Their games may not mesh well and they fall on their faces. Durant/Kyrie/whoever could suffer a major injury.
Thats a lot of possible things that could blow up next year. Any one of them happens, and I guarantee you AD will have no hesitation about walking away.
The biggest thing the Knicks should be focusing on with the AD trade
is keeping Mitch. Mitch is the perfect complement to any of the stars who have been rumored to the Knicks. The Lakers can't even beat our best offer without Mitch. Barrett, DSJ, Knox, Frank, and Trier and the DAL first round picks for AD would be a haul compared to getting whatever trash the Lakers offer.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
RE: The biggest thing the Knicks should be focusing on with the AD trade
is keeping Mitch. Mitch is the perfect complement to any of the stars who have been rumored to the Knicks. The Lakers can't even beat our best offer without Mitch. Barrett, DSJ, Knox, Frank, and Trier and the DAL first round picks for AD would be a haul compared to getting whatever trash the Lakers offer.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
This is only true if the Pelicans believe there's a steep drop-off between who they'd take at #3 and who they'd take at #4. Just because most people believe that, doesn't mean that all teams do. It also depends on what they think of Knox and DSJ. Of course, the Knicks could offer up 2 more first round picks than the Lakers can but I have a hard time seeing the Knicks parting with 3-4 firsts to get a deal done given the risk in him walking.
Build it through the draft, as the other posters are saying. No reason to sell the farm on a pipe dream. Work towards long term and sustained success. The Warriors took their time to build their team and it paid off handsomely. I have faith in Perry and what he's trying to do. Dolan and Mills are not interfering, and Mills is in a solid support role. The organization is making solid moves and drafting well while also building draft capital by (1) keeping their picks and (2) having the Mavericks' picks in 2021 and 2023, which could turn out to be anything. I'm excited to see what will happen. I'd be devastated to see them mortgage everything and wind up back at square one again. Patience is the key.
On multiple occasions he would sign long term here. It's a non issue.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Unless you have a different source, what he's said multiple times is, parapharased, he'd be open / willing to sign long term. That is not confirmation of anything, especially if it's true he won't sign an extension until after the season. And why many are hesitant even for a talent like AD
good luck trying to replicate their approach. They only needed to find an all-time great MVP caliber player at #7, a defensive player of the year/All-NBA type in the second round, and an all-NBA shooting guard at #11....then they needed a once-in-a-generation cap spike and several other random events to take place to land another MVP caliber player who might be one of the top 5 scorers who ever lived. That they pulled off the first 3 (Curry, Klay, Draymond) within a 3-4 year span is a borderline miracle.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
good luck trying to replicate their approach. They only needed to find an all-time great MVP caliber player at #7, a defensive player of the year/All-NBA type in the second round, and an all-NBA shooting guard at #11....then they needed a once-in-a-generation cap spike and several other random events to take place to land another MVP caliber player who might be one of the top 5 scorers who ever lived. That they pulled off the first 3 (Curry, Klay, Draymond) within a 3-4 year span is a borderline miracle.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Dont forget curry and thompson taking gifted deals for the warriors after their rookie deal which allowed them to sign durant
In a perfect world, you can draft a develop a group of guys talented enough to contend for titles, but it's rare. The strategy still pays dividends - you stockpile young, cheap talent and assets, get your cap in order to chase free agents, and become a viable trade partner. That's where the Knicks are right now - every avenue toward building a contender is open to them. I wish I had more faith in this franchise, but the opportunity is definitely there.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
In a perfect world, you can draft a develop a group of guys talented enough to contend for titles, but it's rare. The strategy still pays dividends - you stockpile young, cheap talent and assets, get your cap in order to chase free agents, and become a viable trade partner. That's where the Knicks are right now - every avenue toward building a contender is open to them. I wish I had more faith in this franchise, but the opportunity is definitely there.
Both ways can work but bringing in a proven stud is usually a higher percentage play. The Miami Model is an example and GSW adding KD to their mix was another. If you have the chance to add the likes of KD and AD with a 3rd guy like Kyrie or Kemba you just don't pass that up to build organically unless the players are truly blue chip level.
The only guy on our roster that could have been was KP and he was traded away so that we could add 2 max guys that will likely be better than he.
but the Knicks are promoting the hell out of the Vegas Summer League in July, specifically offering a trip out there to see "the #3 pick, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Allonzo Trier." It's been all over MSG Network and social media, and the opportunity to see the #3 pick is emphasized. May mean nothing, but it would be odd to do that if the pick was ticketed for New Orleans.
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.59
3. Anthony Davis 27.42
4. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
5. David Robinson* 26.18
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.31
9. Kevin Durant 25.20
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. James Harden 24.44
14. Tim Duncan 24.22
15. Magic Johnson* 24.11
16. Karl Malone* 23.90
17. Stephen Curry 23.84
18. Russell Westbrook 23.67
19. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
20. Julius Erving* 23.58
RE: RE: RE: RE: People are doubting the KD smoke now?
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Russell ranked 6th in Usage % in the whole league, 7th in total field goal attempts, and 8th in turnovers. He may not draw a ton of fouls at the rim, but he's a textbook case of a ball dominant lead guard (not that there's anything wrong with that...)
Anthony Davis is leagues better than Carmelo Anthony.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Wait what? Russell has the 6th highest usage rate in the league at just over 31%, Barretts was actually higher than that at 32%. How are those not ball dominant players?
but the Knicks are promoting the hell out of the Vegas Summer League in July, specifically offering a trip out there to see "the #3 pick, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Allonzo Trier." It's been all over MSG Network and social media, and the opportunity to see the #3 pick is emphasized. May mean nothing, but it would be odd to do that if the pick was ticketed for New Orleans.
Who plays point? Onion Jaramaz? Haha
RE: Anthony Davis is leagues better than Carmelo Anthony.
I think many here don't realize just how good this kid is because hes played on a bunch of bad teams. He had a couple good players but nothing like a Miami big 3 around him. KD and/or Kyrie/Kemba would be the best cast that he has ever had should the Knicks be successful in getting all 3.
but the Knicks are promoting the hell out of the Vegas Summer League in July, specifically offering a trip out there to see "the #3 pick, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Allonzo Trier." It's been all over MSG Network and social media, and the opportunity to see the #3 pick is emphasized. May mean nothing, but it would be odd to do that if the pick was ticketed for New Orleans.
eh, the ratings probably dropped off this past season compared to previous years. The marketing department is probably just trying to drum up interest however they can.
Stephen A is an entertainer, not a reporter. Until Woj or Shams reports anything, I don't believe it. Jalen Rose was actually a better source with this ties to Roc Nation.
In comment 14465006 Canton said:
Quote:
Link - ( New Window )
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Well obviously. But why do people keep saying that when it's not a straight up trade? It's not one of RJ or KK or MR, it's all of them plus more, for a rental
I think many do get how good he is, but we're not talking about a 1 for 1. It's funny, most of the points expressed in this thread are accurate individually, but seem to ignore the overall picture
Also Melo in this convo is odd. The relevant comparison is gutting the team for a trade. Not comparing Melo vs AD on the court, which AD is obviously better
RE: RE: RE: RJB makes his case playing for the Knicks
In comment 14465006 Canton said:
Quote:
Link - ( New Window )
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Well obviously. But why do people keep saying that when it's not a straight up trade? It's not one of RJ or KK or MR, it's all of them plus more, for a rental
The whole point would be that AD would be extended
if not after next season, based on his remarks (correct me if im wrong on that)
Still maintains the huge risk of trading a ton and losing AD the in a year. That too, knowing it's the good 'ole NYKs FO - w/ Scott Perry 'being different than the past' aside
I get taking a risk even so, but most are ignoring that as if it's some definitive (even if he SAYS "for sure I'm extending" which is of course not the case)
Yet you see many pro-trade arguments that are 1 line (paraphrased)
to think it is, especially in the nba. First off, I'm not sure how anybody could have watched last season and think that any of the current Knicks are going to develop into superstars. Will some turn out to be pretty good? Sure. Will any be superstars? I'd really be surprised.
Second, it seems to me that more often than not a young nba player will show promise, their team will lock them into a high price second contract and then that player will stop progressing and plateau at their current level. This is how teams like the Wizards, Hornets and others get locked into mediocrity.
The Knicks may have run into this issue with KP if they didn't trade him this year. Sure, KP may have developed into a star, but if he didn't, the Knicks would have lost most of their cap flexibility on a gamble. I personally believe that the Knicks letting the kids grow and giving them big second contracts is just as big, if not a bigger gamble than trading them for AD. Just my opinion.
if AD signs and extension you do what it takes to trade for him if he doesn't it's not on the table really unless you can get it done without #3 or Mitchell Robinson.
Either of those assets is too large for someone that pretty clearly loves LA and might bolt even if he is playing with Durant and Kyrie too.
but there just inst a thing you dont trade to get anthony davis if you are getting durant already.
that is 2 hands down no questions asked top 5 players in the league.
Anthony Davis is a STUD. hes is young. he will resign in NY. he has 5 prime years left-- there wont be 1 year of regret on his max like u see with CP3 and such.
yes of course you try to trade as little as possible to get him.... but if the price goes up, you have to match it if you have the assets.
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
7m
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
7m
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
Not really breaking news. However, SAS said KD has zero interest in the Nets, so it's either the Knicks, return to GS, or the Clippers as the least likely option.
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
RE: RE: I'd be very surprised if Marks made this trade without
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
For KD at the $38m max yes they would have shed. But they had enough room to afford the $32.7m max for all the other top guys by just renouncing RHJ's QO and waiving their non-gtd contracts.
This has me worried as a Knicks fan. There are only so many max FAs out there and someones going to get shut out. They gave up a lot to get rid of Crabbe. Highly doubtful they do that without knowing they have something lined up. And I know someone who works for the Nets who has been pretty adamant that Russell is not returning...
I still believe Durant's plan is to sign with the Knicks. But things could break badly here and the Knicks are shutout...
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
For KD at the $38m max yes they would have shed. But they had enough room to afford the $32.7m max for all the other top guys by just renouncing RHJ's QO and waiving their non-gtd contracts.
they had 28 million in space with russrlls hold before crabbe deal
Brooklyn also can clear $3.48 million in cap space by waiving the non-guaranteed salaries of Napier ($1.84 million) and Graham ($1.64 million) for next season. Doing so would give Brooklyn $32.18 million in cap space.
With the Crabbe deal, they've now supposedly got $46m free according to an article Woj just posted - which would make sense since the net of Crabbe's 18.5m and Green's 2.5m should have saved them $16m. I assume Woj's number includes the non-guaranteed guys still on the roster.
Quote:
Boston guard Kyrie Irving -- who is expected to become a free agent -- and Brooklyn have a strong mutual interest, league sources told ESPN. The Nets have $46 million in salary-cap space to sign two maximum-contract free agents, which would include Brooklyn's dream scenario of luring Irving and Golden State's Kevin Durant to the franchise, league sources said.
It wouldnt be hard for the Nets to give away Spencer Dinwiddie or Joe Harris, each on a team friendly deal. There are a dozen teams who would take them.
When we see that move, then you know that the Nets have someone other than Kyrie lined up. This move just ensures they dont have to renounce dlo to sign Kyrie.
if they need to create the last few million they will be able to
there have been rumors about the suns + Dinwiddie for years but even if the 6th overall is far fetched moving him or harris would be pretty easy. Both are on great contracts.
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
It wouldnt be hard for the Nets to give away Spencer Dinwiddie or Joe Harris, each on a team friendly deal. There are a dozen teams who would take them.
When we see that move, then you know that the Nets have someone other than Kyrie lined up. This move just ensures they dont have to renounce dlo to sign Kyrie.
they dont have to make another kove if they want say irivng and harris, but to get durant they will need another move
RE: if they need to create the last few million they will be able to
there have been rumors about the suns + Dinwiddie for years but even if the 6th overall is far fetched moving him or harris would be pretty easy. Both are on great contracts.
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
dont take what i am sayong wrong, i think the nets are signing a max player..
If you want to get deep into a reddit level conspiracy about the trade, apparently Taurean Prince and KD are good friends. I find the real estate and circle of friends stuff hilarious.
they dont have to make another kove if they want say irivng and harris, but to get durant they will need another move
I could see Irving + Harris. I could also see them being interested in Horford since he's very much the type of presence they could use inside and he and Atkinson are close. Honestly there are a lot of ways they could go from here, but I'd be a lot less surprised to see Dinwiddie get dealt for a draft pick than to see Russell renounced. I don't think Marks + Atkinson spent 2 years on that reclamation project to let him go for nothing. I could see them dealing him for AD if that's logistically possible but short of that I don't see them letting Russell go. He's still just 23 years old, an all star, and the poster boy for everything the organization was trying to build from a positive culture standpoint. I question how Irving would fit with him, but I also questioned whether Russell was a true PG when they moved him there and that worked out great so I assume they know what they are doing in that area.
there have been rumors about the suns + Dinwiddie for years but even if the 6th overall is far fetched moving him or harris would be pretty easy. Both are on great contracts.
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
dont take what i am sayong wrong, i think the nets are signing a max player..
So the Knicks make all these moves but they will strike out while the nets make a move or two and youre certain they know something the rest of the league doesnt?
I think previous history is clouding your judgment. All Knick moves from all the way 2 years ago front office to head coach to bringing in Royal Ivey, keeping DrAndre a Jordan, opening up 2 maxes were done with this summer FA in mind. And the KD stuff runs really deep. Look nothing is set in stone but I would put KD changing his mind on par with the chances that LeBron could have changed his mind about LA. Just way too many Knick connections that has been listed ad museum here.
I think people are always going to assume the worst, so that's an easy conclusion to jump to.
The truth is probably more simple: Nobody has an under the table deal, nobody has their minds made up yet, and players are more concerned with the final than where they're playing in 2019.
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
i am being a big baby about it, just tired of being dissapointed as a knicks fan
I think people are always going to assume the worst, so that's an easy conclusion to jump to.
The truth is probably more simple: Nobody has an under the table deal, nobody has their minds made up yet, and players are more concerned with the final than where they're playing in 2019.
Its probably closer to this than any other theory. I do think that most of these big ticket guys sort of know where they want to be and most might even have a good idea where they will end up but theres uncertainty there too. No one really knows for sure yet. I just like all the assets and maneuverability the Knicks have gained lately. I feel like they are dealing from a position of strength for the first time in decades.
But who the fuck would want to go to the Nets over the Knicks and be the little bitch for the rest of their lives? Jesus pull up your pants and play for the big boy team.
Its always good to temper expectations but until KD signs somewhere besides with NYK, this is very premature. I can tell you the Knicks feel good about their chances with KD but its never been a lock, nothing has been agreed upon behind closed doors or anything like that. They never felt that way about Kyrie. They knew KD wouldnt come alone (hence why when trading KP cap space was a big priority) and they thought (maybe they still do) that Kyrie was a candidate for their other max slot because of his relationship with KD. The Nets are now in a similar boat except its Kyrie they feel good about. Probably more of a certainty than KD to the Knicks but most dont believe KD has any interest in BK and that its still GS or NYK for him. That wont stop the Nets from taking their shot, nor should it but its far more likely they wind up with a Kyrie Butler, Harris or Russell pairing than anything else.
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
i am being a big baby about it, just tired of being dissapointed as a knicks fan
Haha its just a coping mechanism I get it! Dare to dream.
on flight this evening from West Coast to NY. Story is these were the Knicks players who attended the finals game together in Oakland. Barrett will be working out for Knicks this week in NY.
Quote:
A friend is headed back from the west coast and is on a plane with some Knicks and R.J. sitting together. He said apparently they were talking about how good the pitch to KD went.
. . .
Quote:
Thats quite the tidbit. What is RJ doing with the Knicks on a plane? And why are they pitching [KD] in the middle of the Finals?
. , ,
Quote:
yeah hes a casual fan, so idk what to read into that.
But RJ was definitely sitting with the Knick players (I assume it was the group including Knox that reportedly went to Game 4 with the Knicks assistant coach.)
Maybe the plan is to keep RJ and only use cap space to get help for KD? I think Kyrie was the first option but he kinda went rogue with this BK stuff
Not sure who else. I guess they could've snuck in a meeting with Durant - nothing in the rules prevents players from chatting, and KD hasn't had much to do lately.
We've heard rumors to the like, after hearing Mem is sold on Morant (coinciding w/ news on his recent knee scope / clean up fwiw). So IMO it's not shocking at all even if it's less likely
Unless they are much lower on Morant than the field (which we've heard NYK might rate him #2), he's the pick if NO picks RJ. Tho I'd understand a pick of Culver or someone else. Not 100% sure what I'd do in that scenario as I'm not in love w/ Morant in spite of his talents
i mean how much better is Clint then horford? Does he put them over the top? Do you pay them both at the same time? Or do they think that Al isnt exercising his PO. WOuld be a bit risky on his part as he is set to earn 30 mill next season.
@TommyBeer
22m22 minutes ago
Interesting insight from Chris Carter this morning on @FTFonFS1.
Carter, who is very close w/ Kawhi Leonard and his camp, said that:
"I believe the Knicks have a shot to land Kawhi and KD." And added that Kawhi and Durant teaming up in New York is a "real possibility."
@TommyBeer
20m20 minutes ago
Carter also reported this morning that the Spurs were NOT willing to offer Kawhi Leonard a max contract - which is part of the reason why Kawhi wanted to leave San Antonio.
Comments about Kawhi and the Knicks at the beginning.
Carter's remarks are restrained. Only says he "wouldn't be surprised" if Kawhi went to Knicks, as a third possibility if he didn't go to the Clippers or stay in Toronto.
The other talking head then says that Knicks are one of three possible destinations but a clear third place behind Clippers and Raptors. Carter nods at that remark.
Maybe they return to the subject later and CC says more but I haven't listened that far and don't think it changes the bottom line. ftf - ( New Window )
The strikeout machine Chris Carter? Or are we talking about Cris Carter?
football chris carter, he is very close to Kawhi's uncle and i believe his brother is part of Kawhi's "team"
Those are strong connections.
Given the NBA landscape and quality level of the top teams now many times you need at least a trio of superstars/borderline stars to make it to the finals.
With Kawhi and KD both elite 5 tool do it all players you could possibly make the finals out of the East with just a half decent cast around them. I'm not saying low quality players but role players that excel in certain areas and some ring chasers.
You add Barrett to that mix with DeAndre, Mitch, Trier and then add a couple vets.
My preferred route would be to add AD too but we are going to see some heavy competition for him.
Barrett hasn't met with any teams since the combine
also implied he is in fact looking to buy property in Toronto. A man that rich can have multiple abodes but you would think it's a good sign for Raptors fans.
also implied he is in fact looking to buy property in Toronto. A man that rich can have multiple abodes but you would think it's a good sign for Raptors fans.
definitely good sign for the raptors, the best bet for knicks is still KD
but Tommy Beer seems to think he might have some insight.
What a crazy offseason this could be.... Not just the Knicks but league wide. I still think KD is likely for us but I don't really know what will happen here or anywhere else.
I can't wait for tonight's game - Raptors are rolling and the crowd will be insane, but I expect a championship effort from Golden State, and a Durant appearance. High drama. And if Golden State someone guts out a win, look out.
article in The Athletic on Friday by Joe Varden about the finals, this nugget was snuck in:
Quote:
In last years Finals, it looked and sounded and felt like LeBron was about to leave Cleveland. He did. The Warriors have all but openly embraced that this is Durants last season here. The smoke around Durant and the Knicks is so thick, sources said, other free agents are upset with how brazen New York has been with its confidence in attracting him as though a deal is already done. Durant, for what its worth, has refuted the last part.
I'm not sure why this would make other free agents upset but if true it would explain why we've now heard Kyrie to Brooklyn and Kemba isn't likely an option for the Knicks if he leaves Charlotte. I find it encouraging personally but the Knicks have read tea leaves wrong before so grain of salt... Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting. Looks like this is going to be done prior to the draft, so we can forget the Dream Team scenario of KD, AD and Kyrie, which was a one-in-a-million shot under the best of circumstances. It sure would be nice to have Anthony Davis seated at the table when KD/Kawhi arrive for their visits.
All-Star player, young potential All-Star, and two first round picks. They want to compete right away with Holiday and Zion, which is wise.
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
All-Star player, young potential All-Star, and two first round picks. They want to compete right away with Holiday and Zion, which is wise.
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
woj says they are flexible and that is why pelicans are looking for multiple teams
it is to pull together a deal of that size. Once you bring a third team into the fold that isn't just taking a player's salary for a pick or something of the sort, it becomes very hard to get to the finish line.
All-Star player, young potential All-Star, and two first round picks. They want to compete right away with Holiday and Zion, which is wise.
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
Mitch, RJ Barrett and both Dallas picks certainly come close to that offer. The only thing not in that offering is an fully established and proven all star. But it pretty much everything else that they are looking for.
It all depends on how much we are willing to give up because our offer could be right up there if not the best (sans Boston who AD doesn't want to play for).
sounds if it is lakers or knicks the deal will be done before the draft..
Also Woj mentioned knicks would do the deal to pair with kd not to form a big 3
I hope if we punt on AD it's because we have an inside track on Kawhi or the very least another 2nd max while keeping RJ Barrett. If you get Kawhi and KD and keep Barrett and Mitch that is certainly a better alternative to AD and KD while losing Mitch and RJ Barrett
If that is the clear case then getting Kawhi is the ideal scenario by far because of the assets it will cost to get AD. And the drop after Kawhi is pretty big on the other potential 2nd maxes.
Can we convince Kawhi that KD, RJ Barrett, Mitch, DeAndre and Trier, DSJ, Knox would be the best team to join next year?
for Mitch, #3, DAL pick, and say Frank (to dump his salary). Then we sign KD. How much capspace would we have left? Anything? ~10 mill is my guess, not really enough to do anything with. Prolly goes to like Jordan or something. Really liked the idea of signing two guys and keeping all the assets, but im ok either way. AD is one of the top 5 players in the league and if you are pairing him with a KD or Kawhi then you are in great shape.
for Mitch, #3, DAL pick, and say Frank (to dump his salary). Then we sign KD. How much capspace would we have left? Anything? ~10 mill is my guess, not really enough to do anything with. Prolly goes to like Jordan or something. Really liked the idea of signing two guys and keeping all the assets, but im ok either way. AD is one of the top 5 players in the league and if you are pairing him with a KD or Kawhi then you are in great shape.
Love AD but yeah it will take a lot more creativity if we go that route.
But if its only 2 but not 3. I'd rather get Kawhi and KD and keep a guy like Barrett and Mitch. For all 3 I'd go the Miami route and sell the farm and go with vet mins and ring chasers
for Mitch, #3, DAL pick, and say Frank (to dump his salary). Then we sign KD. How much capspace would we have left? Anything? ~10 mill is my guess, not really enough to do anything with. Prolly goes to like Jordan or something. Really liked the idea of signing two guys and keeping all the assets, but im ok either way. AD is one of the top 5 players in the league and if you are pairing him with a KD or Kawhi then you are in great shape.
sorta related, but as the cap rises and max salaries reach absurd levels ($40-$50 million), I think you'll see guys start taking less than the max but still get crazy money, e.g. a guy like Durant can get something like 3/120 from a new team this summer. Maybe he takes 3/100 if that puts him in a better situation. There have been some previous examples of guys taking less than the max, but it's possible it becomes more prevalent as the total dollars involved becomes more absurd.
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Davis not helping Ws more than Robinson...that may be nuts. But I agree most aren't appreciating Davis will take more 'fitting' and won't guarantee NYK is a legit contender just like that, tho they'll be a top team in the east (even if it's behind Tor / Mil etc)
Everything else you said makes total sense. If not guaranteed an extension w/ AD, it's tough to give up a slew of assets. And there's a lot of value in keeping & developing, especially Mitch, #3 & future 1sts among others. That way regardless of what happens w/ FAs - whoever NYK gets and however that plays out - they won't destroy the foundation if and when those guys become disgruntled / demand trades / leave or whatever
Am I nuts?
Yes you're nuts.
That would be nuts. But thats not the cost. Its most likely Barrett + Knox + 3 future #1 picks.
Basically 5 first round picks. For a guy who could walk in a year.
If they completely strike out they should sign vets to large one year deals. Ie reddick, Beverly, deandre Jordan and Danny green. At the trade deadline trade these guys to playoff teams for assets. Just keep collecting assets. Unfortunately I believe 2020 free agency is terrible.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
Same
I have a hard time letting the young guys like Mitch, Knox, and Smith go. Even Dotson and Trier. They have the potential to grow into a great supporting cast for our 2 maxes.
We also get Barrett and have the 1st round picks. That's an AWFUL lot to give up for AD without a guaranteed contract.
Quote:
Y'all are ridiculous.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
I am thinking the same thing. If Golden State loses the series then I can see him going back for another year and then hitting the market next year instead.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
yeah if they can no one there is a good chance no top free agent ever comes until their young guys mature into something...
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
I really have no idea if Durant is coming or not, but I'm sure he has no idea yet what he is going to do. Regarding, Irving, never wanted him anyways unless Durant came.
That would be preferable but even as the 2nd peice we still potentially would have more cap flexibility to go after better players vs vet mins or ring chasers signing for significantly less.
What I hope doesn't happen is whiffing on FA and then giving assets and cap space for AD. If that happens, we'd be basically trading places with the Pelicans.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Its very much an issue. He wont sign until after the 2019-20 season. A lot can happen in that time. He could hate NY. He could hate Durant/Kyrie/Whoever. He could hate Fizdsle/front office. Their games may not mesh well and they fall on their faces. Durant/Kyrie/whoever could suffer a major injury.
Thats a lot of possible things that could blow up next year. Any one of them happens, and I guarantee you AD will have no hesitation about walking away.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
This is only true if the Pelicans believe there's a steep drop-off between who they'd take at #3 and who they'd take at #4. Just because most people believe that, doesn't mean that all teams do. It also depends on what they think of Knox and DSJ. Of course, the Knicks could offer up 2 more first round picks than the Lakers can but I have a hard time seeing the Knicks parting with 3-4 firsts to get a deal done given the risk in him walking.
Build it through the draft, as the other posters are saying. No reason to sell the farm on a pipe dream. Work towards long term and sustained success. The Warriors took their time to build their team and it paid off handsomely. I have faith in Perry and what he's trying to do. Dolan and Mills are not interfering, and Mills is in a solid support role. The organization is making solid moves and drafting well while also building draft capital by (1) keeping their picks and (2) having the Mavericks' picks in 2021 and 2023, which could turn out to be anything. I'm excited to see what will happen. I'd be devastated to see them mortgage everything and wind up back at square one again. Patience is the key.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Unless you have a different source, what he's said multiple times is, parapharased, he'd be open / willing to sign long term. That is not confirmation of anything, especially if it's true he won't sign an extension until after the season. And why many are hesitant even for a talent like AD
God, another few weeks of this bullshit...
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Dont forget curry and thompson taking gifted deals for the warriors after their rookie deal which allowed them to sign durant
Maybe he is willing to take less to ring chase?
Quote:
Knicks appear to be very interested in Marcus Morris. He's a good player but will be 30 next season and presumably not particularly cheap.
Maybe he is willing to take less to ring chase?
Exactly. These upcoming few weeks are going to be quite interesting.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Link - ( New Window )
Both ways can work but bringing in a proven stud is usually a higher percentage play. The Miami Model is an example and GSW adding KD to their mix was another. If you have the chance to add the likes of KD and AD with a 3rd guy like Kyrie or Kemba you just don't pass that up to build organically unless the players are truly blue chip level.
The only guy on our roster that could have been was KP and he was traded away so that we could add 2 max guys that will likely be better than he.
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.59
3. Anthony Davis 27.42
4. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
5. David Robinson* 26.18
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.31
9. Kevin Durant 25.20
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. James Harden 24.44
14. Tim Duncan 24.22
15. Magic Johnson* 24.11
16. Karl Malone* 23.90
17. Stephen Curry 23.84
18. Russell Westbrook 23.67
19. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
20. Julius Erving* 23.58
Quote:
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Russell ranked 6th in Usage % in the whole league, 7th in total field goal attempts, and 8th in turnovers. He may not draw a ton of fouls at the rim, but he's a textbook case of a ball dominant lead guard (not that there's anything wrong with that...)
Quote:
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Wait what? Russell has the 6th highest usage rate in the league at just over 31%, Barretts was actually higher than that at 32%. How are those not ball dominant players?
Who plays point? Onion Jaramaz? Haha
I think many here don't realize just how good this kid is because hes played on a bunch of bad teams. He had a couple good players but nothing like a Miami big 3 around him. KD and/or Kyrie/Kemba would be the best cast that he has ever had should the Knicks be successful in getting all 3.
eh, the ratings probably dropped off this past season compared to previous years. The marketing department is probably just trying to drum up interest however they can.
Quote:
Link - ( New Window )
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Well obviously. But why do people keep saying that when it's not a straight up trade? It's not one of RJ or KK or MR, it's all of them plus more, for a rental
I think many do get how good he is, but we're not talking about a 1 for 1. It's funny, most of the points expressed in this thread are accurate individually, but seem to ignore the overall picture
Also Melo in this convo is odd. The relevant comparison is gutting the team for a trade. Not comparing Melo vs AD on the court, which AD is obviously better
Quote:
In comment 14465006 Canton said:
Quote:
Link - ( New Window )
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Well obviously. But why do people keep saying that when it's not a straight up trade? It's not one of RJ or KK or MR, it's all of them plus more, for a rental
The whole point would be that AD would be extended
Still maintains the huge risk of trading a ton and losing AD the in a year. That too, knowing it's the good 'ole NYKs FO - w/ Scott Perry 'being different than the past' aside
I get taking a risk even so, but most are ignoring that as if it's some definitive (even if he SAYS "for sure I'm extending" which is of course not the case)
He's pretty good.
Second, it seems to me that more often than not a young nba player will show promise, their team will lock them into a high price second contract and then that player will stop progressing and plateau at their current level. This is how teams like the Wizards, Hornets and others get locked into mediocrity.
The Knicks may have run into this issue with KP if they didn't trade him this year. Sure, KP may have developed into a star, but if he didn't, the Knicks would have lost most of their cap flexibility on a gamble. I personally believe that the Knicks letting the kids grow and giving them big second contracts is just as big, if not a bigger gamble than trading them for AD. Just my opinion.
Either of those assets is too large for someone that pretty clearly loves LA and might bolt even if he is playing with Durant and Kyrie too.
that is 2 hands down no questions asked top 5 players in the league.
Anthony Davis is a STUD. hes is young. he will resign in NY. he has 5 prime years left-- there wont be 1 year of regret on his max like u see with CP3 and such.
yes of course you try to trade as little as possible to get him.... but if the price goes up, you have to match it if you have the assets.
That was a strange group of players to mention - Kyrie probably wouldn't be caught dead with a couple of them.
The whole point would be that AD would be extended
AD and his agent have stated on numerous occasions he will not sign an extension.
Michael Scotto who is a very reliable source already said the report is false
Must take them out of the AD trade market, no?
Quote:
just made a significant trade?
Must take them out of the AD trade market, no?
It's Allen Crabbe and two first rounders (including one in 2019) to the Hawks for Taurean Prince.
Brooklyn can now create 2 max salary slots
I would take Herro with one of those picks. I think he's going to be a better JJ Redick.
Quote:
In comment 14465160 Metnut said:
Quote:
just made a significant trade?
Must take them out of the AD trade market, no?
It's Allen Crabbe and two first rounders (including one in 2019) to the Hawks for Taurean Prince.
Brooklyn can now create 2 max salary slots
that feels like a lot just to shed one year of Crabbe, no? Is prince good defensively or something? Hit stat line is highly unremarkable.
@wojespn
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
7m
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
@wojespn
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
Beat me lol
Agreed. If that rumored Knicks/Hawks trade was legit (it wasn't), I would've wanted Herro on the Knicks with one of those picks. Need shooting.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
7m
Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.
Not really breaking news. However, SAS said KD has zero interest in the Nets, so it's either the Knicks, return to GS, or the Clippers as the least likely option.
If kyrie really headed to nets have to get davis
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
Quote:
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
For KD at the $38m max yes they would have shed. But they had enough room to afford the $32.7m max for all the other top guys by just renouncing RHJ's QO and waiving their non-gtd contracts.
I still believe Durant's plan is to sign with the Knicks. But things could break badly here and the Knicks are shutout...
The prize in FA is Kawhi. Durant is a close 2nd. AD is 3rd even via trade.
Kyrie, Kemba, Klay are a tier below.
Quote:
In comment 14465190 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
having big things figured out for how he was spending that money. It could very well be Irving + Tobias Harris, or Harris + Horford, or literally any combination of players available, but Marks just dealt off the highest first rd pick he's had since becoming a GM and a 2nd pick to get rid of an expiring contract when he already had cap room for 1 max. The only thing they gain out of this deal is the ability to afford 2 maxes.
He has been anything but Billy King - if he is overpaying out of desperation for cap room there's a reason.
they had to deal crabbe either way to get a max slot next to russell
For KD at the $38m max yes they would have shed. But they had enough room to afford the $32.7m max for all the other top guys by just renouncing RHJ's QO and waiving their non-gtd contracts.
they had 28 million in space with russrlls hold before crabbe deal
they still cant afford kd and kyrie..
they can only afford 2 maxes at 32 million
Also Prince is not a bad player. Seemed to take a bit of a step back last year but that team was awful and he was banged up
Quote:
declared KD/Kyrie back to the Nets yet? You know that's coming.
they still cant afford kd and kyrie..
they can only afford 2 maxes at 32 million
Wouldnt be that hard to clear the rest though.
Quote:
In comment 14465213 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
declared KD/Kyrie back to the Nets yet? You know that's coming.
they still cant afford kd and kyrie..
they can only afford 2 maxes at 32 million
Wouldnt be that hard to clear the rest though.
probably have to get rid of harris
With the Crabbe deal, they've now supposedly got $46m free according to an article Woj just posted - which would make sense since the net of Crabbe's 18.5m and Green's 2.5m should have saved them $16m. I assume Woj's number includes the non-guaranteed guys still on the roster.
How the Nets can maximize their potential cap space heading into free agency - ( New Window )
what is 32 plus 38?
When we see that move, then you know that the Nets have someone other than Kyrie lined up. This move just ensures they dont have to renounce dlo to sign Kyrie.
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
When we see that move, then you know that the Nets have someone other than Kyrie lined up. This move just ensures they dont have to renounce dlo to sign Kyrie.
they dont have to make another kove if they want say irivng and harris, but to get durant they will need another move
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
dont take what i am sayong wrong, i think the nets are signing a max player..
they dont have to make another kove if they want say irivng and harris, but to get durant they will need another move
I could see Irving + Harris. I could also see them being interested in Horford since he's very much the type of presence they could use inside and he and Atkinson are close. Honestly there are a lot of ways they could go from here, but I'd be a lot less surprised to see Dinwiddie get dealt for a draft pick than to see Russell renounced. I don't think Marks + Atkinson spent 2 years on that reclamation project to let him go for nothing. I could see them dealing him for AD if that's logistically possible but short of that I don't see them letting Russell go. He's still just 23 years old, an all star, and the poster boy for everything the organization was trying to build from a positive culture standpoint. I question how Irving would fit with him, but I also questioned whether Russell was a true PG when they moved him there and that worked out great so I assume they know what they are doing in that area.
Good to hear that Billy King is still locked out of the building,
Quote:
there have been rumors about the suns + Dinwiddie for years but even if the 6th overall is far fetched moving him or harris would be pretty easy. Both are on great contracts.
I'm not trying to predict who they are going to specifically sign - i'd be shocked if they renounce Russell. Extremely shocked.
All I'm saying is Marks just paid a really high price to gain cap room. I don't think he did that on whim, that's just not his style. Nor is giving away draft picks.
dont take what i am sayong wrong, i think the nets are signing a max player..
So the Knicks make all these moves but they will strike out while the nets make a move or two and youre certain they know something the rest of the league doesnt?
I think previous history is clouding your judgment. All Knick moves from all the way 2 years ago front office to head coach to bringing in Royal Ivey, keeping DrAndre a Jordan, opening up 2 maxes were done with this summer FA in mind. And the KD stuff runs really deep. Look nothing is set in stone but I would put KD changing his mind on par with the chances that LeBron could have changed his mind about LA. Just way too many Knick connections that has been listed ad museum here.
I think people are always going to assume the worst, so that's an easy conclusion to jump to.
The truth is probably more simple: Nobody has an under the table deal, nobody has their minds made up yet, and players are more concerned with the final than where they're playing in 2019.
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
Quote:
It is feeling like the knicks got duped..
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
i am being a big baby about it, just tired of being dissapointed as a knicks fan
Quote:
It is feeling like the knicks got duped..
I think people are always going to assume the worst, so that's an easy conclusion to jump to.
The truth is probably more simple: Nobody has an under the table deal, nobody has their minds made up yet, and players are more concerned with the final than where they're playing in 2019.
Its probably closer to this than any other theory. I do think that most of these big ticket guys sort of know where they want to be and most might even have a good idea where they will end up but theres uncertainty there too. No one really knows for sure yet. I just like all the assets and maneuverability the Knicks have gained lately. I feel like they are dealing from a position of strength for the first time in decades.
Its always good to temper expectations but until KD signs somewhere besides with NYK, this is very premature. I can tell you the Knicks feel good about their chances with KD but its never been a lock, nothing has been agreed upon behind closed doors or anything like that. They never felt that way about Kyrie. They knew KD wouldnt come alone (hence why when trading KP cap space was a big priority) and they thought (maybe they still do) that Kyrie was a candidate for their other max slot because of his relationship with KD. The Nets are now in a similar boat except its Kyrie they feel good about. Probably more of a certainty than KD to the Knicks but most dont believe KD has any interest in BK and that its still GS or NYK for him. That wont stop the Nets from taking their shot, nor should it but its far more likely they wind up with a Kyrie Butler, Harris or Russell pairing than anything else.
Quote:
In comment 14467118 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
It is feeling like the knicks got duped..
We will see but we should be fine no matter what happens. I cant help but be a little hopeful or optimistic I guess Im Charlie Brown to Lucy but we should be able to get something done this offseason. Theres ammo here now. Lots of it.
i am being a big baby about it, just tired of being dissapointed as a knicks fan
Haha its just a coping mechanism I get it! Dare to dream.
. . .
. , ,
But RJ was definitely sitting with the Knick players (I assume it was the group including Knox that reportedly went to Game 4 with the Knicks assistant coach.)
Maybe the plan is to keep RJ and only use cap space to get help for KD? I think Kyrie was the first option but he kinda went rogue with this BK stuff
FWIW, caveat emptor, etc
kblog - ( New Window )
✔
@NBCSBoston
🏀 The #Celtics are rumored to be "engaged pretty seriously" in trade talks surrounding Rockets center, Clint Capela.
We've heard rumors to the like, after hearing Mem is sold on Morant (coinciding w/ news on his recent knee scope / clean up fwiw). So IMO it's not shocking at all even if it's less likely
Unless they are much lower on Morant than the field (which we've heard NYK might rate him #2), he's the pick if NO picks RJ. Tho I'd understand a pick of Culver or someone else. Not 100% sure what I'd do in that scenario as I'm not in love w/ Morant in spite of his talents
✔
@NBCSBoston
🏀 The #Celtics are rumored to be "engaged pretty seriously" in trade talks surrounding Rockets center, Clint Capela.
I'm still baffled given all the tampering stuff, but at this point just have to shrug
Rivers gets fined for general Kawhi compliments, while the Cs can be openly "engaged" in trade talks while the season still isn't completed?
At least NYK interest was reported as "...will push hard for Kawhi on 6/30/19"
Brain fart. Clearly different!
22m22 minutes ago
Interesting insight from Chris Carter this morning on @FTFonFS1.
Carter, who is very close w/ Kawhi Leonard and his camp, said that:
"I believe the Knicks have a shot to land Kawhi and KD." And added that Kawhi and Durant teaming up in New York is a "real possibility."
@TommyBeer
20m20 minutes ago
Carter also reported this morning that the Spurs were NOT willing to offer Kawhi Leonard a max contract - which is part of the reason why Kawhi wanted to leave San Antonio.
Strikeout machine, thanks for clarifying.
football chris carter, he is very close to Kawhi's uncle and i believe his brother is part of Kawhi's "team"
Carter's remarks are restrained. Only says he "wouldn't be surprised" if Kawhi went to Knicks, as a third possibility if he didn't go to the Clippers or stay in Toronto.
The other talking head then says that Knicks are one of three possible destinations but a clear third place behind Clippers and Raptors. Carter nods at that remark.
Maybe they return to the subject later and CC says more but I haven't listened that far and don't think it changes the bottom line.
ftf - ( New Window )
Quote:
The strikeout machine Chris Carter? Or are we talking about Cris Carter?
football chris carter, he is very close to Kawhi's uncle and i believe his brother is part of Kawhi's "team"
Those are strong connections.
Given the NBA landscape and quality level of the top teams now many times you need at least a trio of superstars/borderline stars to make it to the finals.
With Kawhi and KD both elite 5 tool do it all players you could possibly make the finals out of the East with just a half decent cast around them. I'm not saying low quality players but role players that excel in certain areas and some ring chasers.
You add Barrett to that mix with DeAndre, Mitch, Trier and then add a couple vets.
My preferred route would be to add AD too but we are going to see some heavy competition for him.
I'm 100pct on board with Barrett
definitely good sign for the raptors, the best bet for knicks is still KD
What a crazy offseason this could be.... Not just the Knicks but league wide. I still think KD is likely for us but I don't really know what will happen here or anywhere else.
I'm not sure why this would make other free agents upset but if true it would explain why we've now heard Kyrie to Brooklyn and Kemba isn't likely an option for the Knicks if he leaves Charlotte. I find it encouraging personally but the Knicks have read tea leaves wrong before so grain of salt...
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
sounds if it is lakers or knicks the deal will be done before the draft..
Also Woj mentioned knicks would do the deal to pair with kd not to form a big 3
Thanks for posting. Looks like this is going to be done prior to the draft, so we can forget the Dream Team scenario of KD, AD and Kyrie, which was a one-in-a-million shot under the best of circumstances. It sure would be nice to have Anthony Davis seated at the table when KD/Kawhi arrive for their visits.
which is weird because according to woj boston was not one of the teams who reached out, unless i missed it
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
Quote:
All-Star player, young potential All-Star, and two first round picks. They want to compete right away with Holiday and Zion, which is wise.
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
woj says they are flexible and that is why pelicans are looking for multiple teams
Lol yep and in return Woj will get to break the news when the trade is agreed upon.
Quote:
All-Star player, young potential All-Star, and two first round picks. They want to compete right away with Holiday and Zion, which is wise.
Seems like an ask for the moon type deal that no one will actually meet. Boston for example would need to trade Tatum, Brown and two firsts and they're the only team that could meet their price. Then though they'd have nothing left in the coffers and wouldn't have the roster to compete this upcoming year so I have a hard time believing they'll make that deal with a decent likelihood AD just walks in a year anyways.
Mitch, RJ Barrett and both Dallas picks certainly come close to that offer. The only thing not in that offering is an fully established and proven all star. But it pretty much everything else that they are looking for.
It all depends on how much we are willing to give up because our offer could be right up there if not the best (sans Boston who AD doesn't want to play for).
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )
sounds if it is lakers or knicks the deal will be done before the draft..
Also Woj mentioned knicks would do the deal to pair with kd not to form a big 3
I hope if we punt on AD it's because we have an inside track on Kawhi or the very least another 2nd max while keeping RJ Barrett. If you get Kawhi and KD and keep Barrett and Mitch that is certainly a better alternative to AD and KD while losing Mitch and RJ Barrett
If that is the clear case then getting Kawhi is the ideal scenario by far because of the assets it will cost to get AD. And the drop after Kawhi is pretty big on the other potential 2nd maxes.
Can we convince Kawhi that KD, RJ Barrett, Mitch, DeAndre and Trier, DSJ, Knox would be the best team to join next year?
Jordan/Mitch
KD/Vet/Mitch/Knox
Kawhi/KD/Knox
RJ Barrett/Dotson/Trier
DSJ/Allen/Frank
Too much youth? There is some D 1-5 on that squad, plenty of scorers too.
Love AD but yeah it will take a lot more creativity if we go that route.
But if its only 2 but not 3. I'd rather get Kawhi and KD and keep a guy like Barrett and Mitch. For all 3 I'd go the Miami route and sell the farm and go with vet mins and ring chasers
sorta related, but as the cap rises and max salaries reach absurd levels ($40-$50 million), I think you'll see guys start taking less than the max but still get crazy money, e.g. a guy like Durant can get something like 3/120 from a new team this summer. Maybe he takes 3/100 if that puts him in a better situation. There have been some previous examples of guys taking less than the max, but it's possible it becomes more prevalent as the total dollars involved becomes more absurd.
@ChrisIseman
RJ Barrett confirmed he has no other workouts scheduled. "This is the place I want to be. I hope they draft me."
Link - ( New Window )