Want no part of a one-year rental for the guy, unless it's straight-up for Frank or something ridiculous. Basically, if it's trading for one year of the guy, fugeddaboudit.
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
If they go all in for him boston will field the best offer for AD... Â
Want no part of a one-year rental for the guy, unless it's straight-up for Frank or something ridiculous. Basically, if it's trading for one year of the guy, fugeddaboudit.
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Davis not helping Ws more than Robinson...that may be nuts. But I agree most aren't appreciating Davis will take more 'fitting' and won't guarantee NYK is a legit contender just like that, tho they'll be a top team in the east (even if it's behind Tor / Mil etc)
Everything else you said makes total sense. If not guaranteed an extension w/ AD, it's tough to give up a slew of assets. And there's a lot of value in keeping & developing, especially Mitch, #3 & future 1sts among others. That way regardless of what happens w/ FAs - whoever NYK gets and however that plays out - they won't destroy the foundation if and when those guys become disgruntled / demand trades / leave or whatever
Yes, you're nuts if you'd rather have Barrett than Davis Â
I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Yes you're nuts.
Starting to get a bad feeling about this offseason Â
I will be ok with it as long as we don’t make stupid decisions like maxing the wrong guy ie cousins or kemba or trading an oversized contract.
If they completely strike out they should sign vets to large one year deals. Ie reddick, Beverly, deandre Jordan and Danny green. At the trade deadline trade these guys to playoff teams for assets. Just keep collecting assets. Unfortunately I believe 2020 free agency is terrible.
This is another trap. Don't fall for it. The Knicks FINALLY have the assets (e.g., multiple first round picks) that can help them to get where they want. Now is not the time to fall for this bullshit.
I have a hard time letting the young guys like Mitch, Knox, and Smith go. Even Dotson and Trier. They have the potential to grow into a great supporting cast for our 2 maxes.
We also get Barrett and have the 1st round picks. That's an AWFUL lot to give up for AD without a guaranteed contract.
then i think we are better off not trading for AD. We would give up most of our assets for him and not have much else. At that point id rather take our chances of signing him next offseason.
i think we can officially put to rest the idea that NY/MSG is a place that players really want to come to. It would be a place that makes people short list but not their final choice.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
I am thinking the same thing. If Golden State loses the series then I can see him going back for another year and then hitting the market next year instead.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
i think we can officially put to rest the idea that NY/MSG is a place that players really want to come to. It would be a place that makes people short list but not their final choice.
yeah if they can no one there is a good chance no top free agent ever comes until their young guys mature into something...
I want AD is if we have already signed two max guys and he is the third max. Signing one then moving all these pieces to have him as our 2nd max and depleting the roster is not smart UNLESS we need to trade for him in order to entice KD etc
I'm more worried about the Knicks picking Culver over Barrett than I am the free agency stuff.
I really have no idea if Durant is coming or not, but I'm sure he has no idea yet what he is going to do. Regarding, Irving, never wanted him anyways unless Durant came.
I want AD is if we have already signed two max guys and he is the third max. Signing one then moving all these pieces to have him as our 2nd max and depleting the roster is not smart UNLESS we need to trade for him in order to entice KD etc
That would be preferable but even as the 2nd peice we still potentially would have more cap flexibility to go after better players vs vet mins or ring chasers signing for significantly less.
but the fact is that AD >> Kyrie (at least as far as I see it). So, if we get KD and AD, without giving up all our assets, that's a big win, IMO.
What I hope doesn't happen is whiffing on FA and then giving assets and cap space for AD. If that happens, we'd be basically trading places with the Pelicans.
On multiple occasions he would sign long term here. It's a non issue.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
It’s very much an issue. He won’t sign until after the 2019-20 season. A lot can happen in that time. He could hate NY. He could hate Durant/Kyrie/Whoever. He could hate Fizdsle/front office. Their games may not mesh well and they fall on their faces. Durant/Kyrie/whoever could suffer a major injury.
That’s a lot of possible things that could blow up next year. Any one of them happens, and I guarantee you AD will have no hesitation about walking away.
The biggest thing the Knicks should be focusing on with the AD trade Â
is keeping Mitch. Mitch is the perfect complement to any of the stars who have been rumored to the Knicks. The Lakers can't even beat our best offer without Mitch. Barrett, DSJ, Knox, Frank, and Trier and the DAL first round picks for AD would be a haul compared to getting whatever trash the Lakers offer.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
RE: The biggest thing the Knicks should be focusing on with the AD trade Â
is keeping Mitch. Mitch is the perfect complement to any of the stars who have been rumored to the Knicks. The Lakers can't even beat our best offer without Mitch. Barrett, DSJ, Knox, Frank, and Trier and the DAL first round picks for AD would be a haul compared to getting whatever trash the Lakers offer.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
This is only true if the Pelicans believe there's a steep drop-off between who they'd take at #3 and who they'd take at #4. Just because most people believe that, doesn't mean that all teams do. It also depends on what they think of Knox and DSJ. Of course, the Knicks could offer up 2 more first round picks than the Lakers can but I have a hard time seeing the Knicks parting with 3-4 firsts to get a deal done given the risk in him walking.
Build it through the draft, as the other posters are saying. No reason to sell the farm on a pipe dream. Work towards long term and sustained success. The Warriors took their time to build their team and it paid off handsomely. I have faith in Perry and what he's trying to do. Dolan and Mills are not interfering, and Mills is in a solid support role. The organization is making solid moves and drafting well while also building draft capital by (1) keeping their picks and (2) having the Mavericks' picks in 2021 and 2023, which could turn out to be anything. I'm excited to see what will happen. I'd be devastated to see them mortgage everything and wind up back at square one again. Patience is the key.
On multiple occasions he would sign long term here. It's a non issue.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Unless you have a different source, what he's said multiple times is, parapharased, he'd be open / willing to sign long term. That is not confirmation of anything, especially if it's true he won't sign an extension until after the season. And why many are hesitant even for a talent like AD
good luck trying to replicate their approach. They only needed to find an all-time great MVP caliber player at #7, a defensive player of the year/All-NBA type in the second round, and an all-NBA shooting guard at #11....then they needed a once-in-a-generation cap spike and several other random events to take place to land another MVP caliber player who might be one of the top 5 scorers who ever lived. That they pulled off the first 3 (Curry, Klay, Draymond) within a 3-4 year span is a borderline miracle.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
good luck trying to replicate their approach. They only needed to find an all-time great MVP caliber player at #7, a defensive player of the year/All-NBA type in the second round, and an all-NBA shooting guard at #11....then they needed a once-in-a-generation cap spike and several other random events to take place to land another MVP caliber player who might be one of the top 5 scorers who ever lived. That they pulled off the first 3 (Curry, Klay, Draymond) within a 3-4 year span is a borderline miracle.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Dont forget curry and thompson taking gifted deals for the warriors after their rookie deal which allowed them to sign durant
In a perfect world, you can draft a develop a group of guys talented enough to contend for titles, but it's rare. The strategy still pays dividends - you stockpile young, cheap talent and assets, get your cap in order to chase free agents, and become a viable trade partner. That's where the Knicks are right now - every avenue toward building a contender is open to them. I wish I had more faith in this franchise, but the opportunity is definitely there.
RE: RE: RE: People are doubting the KD smoke now? Â
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
In a perfect world, you can draft a develop a group of guys talented enough to contend for titles, but it's rare. The strategy still pays dividends - you stockpile young, cheap talent and assets, get your cap in order to chase free agents, and become a viable trade partner. That's where the Knicks are right now - every avenue toward building a contender is open to them. I wish I had more faith in this franchise, but the opportunity is definitely there.
Both ways can work but bringing in a proven stud is usually a higher percentage play. The Miami Model is an example and GSW adding KD to their mix was another. If you have the chance to add the likes of KD and AD with a 3rd guy like Kyrie or Kemba you just don't pass that up to build organically unless the players are truly blue chip level.
The only guy on our roster that could have been was KP and he was traded away so that we could add 2 max guys that will likely be better than he.
but the Knicks are promoting the hell out of the Vegas Summer League in July, specifically offering a trip out there to see "the #3 pick, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson and Allonzo Trier." It's been all over MSG Network and social media, and the opportunity to see the #3 pick is emphasized. May mean nothing, but it would be odd to do that if the pick was ticketed for New Orleans.
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.59
3. Anthony Davis 27.42
4. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
5. David Robinson* 26.18
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.31
9. Kevin Durant 25.20
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. James Harden 24.44
14. Tim Duncan 24.22
15. Magic Johnson* 24.11
16. Karl Malone* 23.90
17. Stephen Curry 23.84
18. Russell Westbrook 23.67
19. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
20. Julius Erving* 23.58
RE: RE: RE: RE: People are doubting the KD smoke now? Â
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Russell ranked 6th in Usage % in the whole league, 7th in total field goal attempts, and 8th in turnovers. He may not draw a ton of fouls at the rim, but he's a textbook case of a ball dominant lead guard (not that there's anything wrong with that...)
Anthony Davis is leagues better than Carmelo Anthony. Â
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
If he'll sign, I'm still not interested in paying the price it'll take to win the bidding war. Not interested in giving up Morant/Barrett, or the Dallas picks, or the Knicks' first round picks for the next 3 years. Basically, I'd be happy to see him sign as a free agent, or trade crap for him, but in the modern NBA, with its emphasis on the 3-point shot and guard play I don't see Anthony Davis helping them win a lot more games than Mitchell Robinson. Plus I think Robinson also has a high ceiling, which he hasn't come close to yet.
Am I nuts?
Davis not helping Ws more than Robinson...that may be nuts. But I agree most aren't appreciating Davis will take more 'fitting' and won't guarantee NYK is a legit contender just like that, tho they'll be a top team in the east (even if it's behind Tor / Mil etc)
Everything else you said makes total sense. If not guaranteed an extension w/ AD, it's tough to give up a slew of assets. And there's a lot of value in keeping & developing, especially Mitch, #3 & future 1sts among others. That way regardless of what happens w/ FAs - whoever NYK gets and however that plays out - they won't destroy the foundation if and when those guys become disgruntled / demand trades / leave or whatever
Am I nuts?
Yes you're nuts.
That would be nuts. But that’s not the cost. It’s most likely Barrett + Knox + 3 future #1 picks.
Basically 5 first round picks. For a guy who could walk in a year.
If they completely strike out they should sign vets to large one year deals. Ie reddick, Beverly, deandre Jordan and Danny green. At the trade deadline trade these guys to playoff teams for assets. Just keep collecting assets. Unfortunately I believe 2020 free agency is terrible.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
Same
I have a hard time letting the young guys like Mitch, Knox, and Smith go. Even Dotson and Trier. They have the potential to grow into a great supporting cast for our 2 maxes.
We also get Barrett and have the 1st round picks. That's an AWFUL lot to give up for AD without a guaranteed contract.
Quote:
Y'all are ridiculous.
i think the smoke is true, i just think in the end he chooses to go for 1 more run
I am thinking the same thing. If Golden State loses the series then I can see him going back for another year and then hitting the market next year instead.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
yeah if they can no one there is a good chance no top free agent ever comes until their young guys mature into something...
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
I really have no idea if Durant is coming or not, but I'm sure he has no idea yet what he is going to do. Regarding, Irving, never wanted him anyways unless Durant came.
That would be preferable but even as the 2nd peice we still potentially would have more cap flexibility to go after better players vs vet mins or ring chasers signing for significantly less.
What I hope doesn't happen is whiffing on FA and then giving assets and cap space for AD. If that happens, we'd be basically trading places with the Pelicans.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
It’s very much an issue. He won’t sign until after the 2019-20 season. A lot can happen in that time. He could hate NY. He could hate Durant/Kyrie/Whoever. He could hate Fizdsle/front office. Their games may not mesh well and they fall on their faces. Durant/Kyrie/whoever could suffer a major injury.
That’s a lot of possible things that could blow up next year. Any one of them happens, and I guarantee you AD will have no hesitation about walking away.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
If the youth movement yielded Mitch, Dotson, and the capital needed to land a star core of KD/AD/Kyrie/DAJ. I think that'd be pretty good.
This is only true if the Pelicans believe there's a steep drop-off between who they'd take at #3 and who they'd take at #4. Just because most people believe that, doesn't mean that all teams do. It also depends on what they think of Knox and DSJ. Of course, the Knicks could offer up 2 more first round picks than the Lakers can but I have a hard time seeing the Knicks parting with 3-4 firsts to get a deal done given the risk in him walking.
Build it through the draft, as the other posters are saying. No reason to sell the farm on a pipe dream. Work towards long term and sustained success. The Warriors took their time to build their team and it paid off handsomely. I have faith in Perry and what he's trying to do. Dolan and Mills are not interfering, and Mills is in a solid support role. The organization is making solid moves and drafting well while also building draft capital by (1) keeping their picks and (2) having the Mavericks' picks in 2021 and 2023, which could turn out to be anything. I'm excited to see what will happen. I'd be devastated to see them mortgage everything and wind up back at square one again. Patience is the key.
Also the situation wouldnt be like Kyries or LeBrons. One star playing with a bunch of developing youth .
Hed likely have KD and another max cat along side him.
Unless you have a different source, what he's said multiple times is, parapharased, he'd be open / willing to sign long term. That is not confirmation of anything, especially if it's true he won't sign an extension until after the season. And why many are hesitant even for a talent like AD
God, another few weeks of this bullshit...
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Agree that hoarding picks and young players is a sound strategy, but you must be ready to pounce if/when true franchise players come available.
Dont forget curry and thompson taking gifted deals for the warriors after their rookie deal which allowed them to sign durant
Maybe he is willing to take less to ring chase?
Quote:
Knicks appear to be very interested in Marcus Morris. He's a good player but will be 30 next season and presumably not particularly cheap.
Maybe he is willing to take less to ring chase?
Exactly. These upcoming few weeks are going to be quite interesting.
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Link - ( New Window )
Both ways can work but bringing in a proven stud is usually a higher percentage play. The Miami Model is an example and GSW adding KD to their mix was another. If you have the chance to add the likes of KD and AD with a 3rd guy like Kyrie or Kemba you just don't pass that up to build organically unless the players are truly blue chip level.
The only guy on our roster that could have been was KP and he was traded away so that we could add 2 max guys that will likely be better than he.
RJB is a heck of a talent. And if it were a player a tier below AD in terms of a guy you can build with I would keep RJ. But many folks arent really embracing just how good AD is. His production is top 3 PER all time right now. Top 3. All time. Its ridiculous how good AD is. He is better all around than Carmelo was. Do a trade a promising yet unproven rookie for that plus other things ? You bet I do.
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.59
3. Anthony Davis 27.42
4. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
5. David Robinson* 26.18
6. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Chris Paul 25.31
9. Kevin Durant 25.20
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
13. James Harden 24.44
14. Tim Duncan 24.22
15. Magic Johnson* 24.11
16. Karl Malone* 23.90
17. Stephen Curry 23.84
18. Russell Westbrook 23.67
19. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
20. Julius Erving* 23.58
Quote:
If Brooklyn lands Kyrie I wonder if they let Russell walk. I would love for the Knicks to make a run at him if they miss out on the "top" guys. He is still only 23 so would match up well with the youth movement, my only worry is how well him and Barrett fit together as they are both ball dominant players.
Actually, neither is a ball-dominant player. D-Lo's main weakness is his unwillingness to attack the rim, he will pass it off if he doesn't have a shot. And Barrett was only ball-dominant when Zion was out of the line-up, out of necessity. Both can play effectively off the ball.
Russell ranked 6th in Usage % in the whole league, 7th in total field goal attempts, and 8th in turnovers. He may not draw a ton of fouls at the rim, but he's a textbook case of a ball dominant lead guard (not that there's anything wrong with that...)