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Asshat adjacent re: Daniel Jones

V.I.G. : 6/6/2019 10:22 am
/

A close friend is a Skins fan, lives in the NY area. Played in a charity golf outing with Jay Gruden.

JG said that WAS heard that DJ's private workout for the Giants was an absolutely lights out dominant display. They believed it because DJ "did a pretty nice job with us too." However, once they heard it from multiple accounts, they strongly believed there was no way that DJ would make it past 17, if not 6.

[So this next part is clearly JG talking his book to a skins fan but could still be true]

JG claims Haskins was always their target. His arm and whiteboard smarts are fantastic. His one knock is that he is way way slow. The reported interest in Rosen was always a smokescreen so as not to create a bidding war to move up if necessary. The only team they worried about was CIN bc their sources suggested Elway also preferred DJ. They were somewhat relaxed on CIN bc there was no chatter on them trying to move up, presumably for a QB. Once DJ was taken they were not surprised DEN traded back from 10.

Asshat disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed are my drunk friend's hearsay of a rival's coach post draft spin and was rife with speculation. Any content provided are of their opinion, and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual, Eli, Gettlemen, Mara, or anyone or anything.




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RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
Giantz_comeback : 6/6/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14464711 JonC said:
Quote:
The reports afterward to the contrary haven't carried the same weight to my eyes.


Congrats on your firstborn Jon. God bless that's awesome!

Regarding the Denver interest: taking all reports into account and how they dropped lower in the draft, I also believe they wanted DJ more than the claims otherwise.
who's JG?  
Andy in Boston : 6/6/2019 11:30 am : link
.
I am also convinced Denver wanted Jones  
Jay on the Island : 6/6/2019 11:30 am : link
I think it was all but confirmed when they traded down from 10 after Jones was selected by the Giants.
I think it’s pretty clear Washington  
BSIMatt : 6/6/2019 11:32 am : link
Certainly had interest as well. Snyder may have forced Haskins on the organization, but there was a lot of buzz about their interest in Jones predraft, and also the reports on the split in Redskins organization about Snyder/Allen being pro Haskins and the “football people”(Gruden and he coaches) preferring Jones. Pretty unbelievable sell to say Haskins was your guy all along and you just sit there and wait for all the QB starved teams to pass on your future franchise quarterback. If that’s the plan the Redmsins are selling they look like idiots.
RE: Has anyone seen Hungry Hungry Haskins  
HoustonGiant : 6/6/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14464737 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In a Redskins uniform? Holy crap Lorenzon 2.0 lol


Didn't JaMarcus Russel show up for rookie camp huge? Lorenzon wasn't a first rounder so less was made of it.

There were two...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/6/2019 11:35 am : link
interesting things that happened after we took Jones, although they were tied to one another.

Denver traded out of the 10 spot with Pittsburgh. I think it was because Jones was gone. And because Jones was gone, if the Bengals wanted him, Pittsburgh now knew that their target was likely going to be Bush.

So they jumped up and took him. I think much like when we took Apple that Cincy was on their 3rd choice of player. I have nothing to prove that though.
FMiC  
ColHowPepper : 6/6/2019 11:49 am : link
it's unprovable, short of Wiki leaking hacked emails from Elway, JG, etc. Fact that Denver traded out is enticing to want to believe other teams wanted DJ in the early 1st, but circumstantial, and will likely remain so.
My redskins friends seem to think  
ZogZerg : 6/6/2019 11:51 am : link
the skins wanted DJ. At least the HC did.
RE: nicely framed and carefully crafted  
V.I.G. : 6/6/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14464731 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Did your friend tell you the name of the course and charity outing? Would seem to be 'relatively' easy to check that as a way to buttress this, i.e., that JG was a celeb participant.

this one
https://www.redskins.com/community/charity-golf-classic - ( New Window )
V.I.G.  
Klaatu : 6/6/2019 11:54 am : link
Were any animals harmed during the making of your post?
I’ve learned to believe NOTHING written or said prior to the draft  
djm : 6/6/2019 12:02 pm : link
But to believe some of what is written or said in the weeks and months and even years following the draft.

Prior to the draft - Who is pat mahomes? Meh he’s a decent prospect great arm maybe late first rounder.

Post draft - nyg loved him. Other teams loved him but didn’t move quickly enough. Chiefs loved him and got him.

It’s what actually happened in the draft that matters. Not what was said prior to the draft by all the talkies.
RE: who's JG?  
bradshaw44 : 6/6/2019 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14464770 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
.


Jay Gruden
RE: My redskins friends seem to think  
bradshaw44 : 6/6/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14464809 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
the skins wanted DJ. At least the HC did.


It's been widely rumored down here (I live in Ashburn, VA) that the coaching staff and scouts did not want ANY QB in this draft. The only way they were taking one is if Haskins fell to them, and that is because it was mandated by Snyder. They wanted defense first, and no QB at all.
RE: RE: My redskins friends seem to think  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/6/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14464839 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14464809 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


the skins wanted DJ. At least the HC did.



It's been widely rumored down here (I live in Ashburn, VA) that the coaching staff and scouts did not want ANY QB in this draft. The only way they were taking one is if Haskins fell to them, and that is because it was mandated by Snyder. They wanted defense first, and no QB at all.


I'd buy the coaching staff didn't want a QB. Their seats are pretty warm and they probably figured the best way to keep their jobs was to build a strong defense and running game.
VIG  
figgy2989 : 6/6/2019 12:23 pm : link
Tremendous disclaimer.
RE: RE: My redskins friends seem to think  
bw in dc : 6/6/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14464839 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14464809 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


the skins wanted DJ. At least the HC did.



It's been widely rumored down here (I live in Ashburn, VA) that the coaching staff and scouts did not want ANY QB in this draft. The only way they were taking one is if Haskins fell to them, and that is because it was mandated by Snyder. They wanted defense first, and no QB at all.


I live in Chantilly, and close to someone who has close ties to the Redskins. He said the same exact thing.

There were close ties because Snyder's son went to The Bullis School (Potomac, MD) where Haskins also went...
Lol  
rnargi : 6/6/2019 12:27 pm : link
Way to stick the dismount, my friend!
I live in Stony Brook NY  
figgy2989 : 6/6/2019 12:29 pm : link
and everyone who takes any of the post draft rumors should do so with a huge grain of salt.
Like it or not,  
MOOPS : 6/6/2019 12:30 pm : link
Haskins is now Gruden's guy (thanks Danny). He's not going to say he'd rather have Jones.

RE: I live in Stony Brook NY  
V.I.G. : 6/6/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14464866 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
and everyone who takes any of the post draft rumors should do so with a huge grain of salt.

/dump truck/ of salt
RE: I think it’s pretty clear Washington  
AcidTest : 6/6/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14464775 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Certainly had interest as well. Snyder may have forced Haskins on the organization, but there was a lot of buzz about their interest in Jones predraft, and also the reports on the split in Redskins organization about Snyder/Allen being pro Haskins and the “football people”(Gruden and he coaches) preferring Jones. Pretty unbelievable sell to say Haskins was your guy all along and you just sit there and wait for all the QB starved teams to pass on your future franchise quarterback. If that’s the plan the Redmsins are selling they look like idiots.


Agreed.
Haskins and DJ both rated sa e for sy56 as 80 overall  
NephilimGiants : 6/6/2019 12:49 pm : link
Really hope DJ turns out good but scouts say his QB comparison is Tanihill from dolphins and he sucked
It sounded like Danny boy was forcing a QB on them,  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/6/2019 1:00 pm : link
and if they were going that route they wanted DJ and not Haskins. I buy the coaching staff didn't want a QB at all though because Gruden has to produces this year or his ass is outta town and I don't even think a rookie QB is going to save him. What a clusterfuck that team is.
RE: Haskins and DJ both rated sa e for sy56 as 80 overall  
BSIMatt : 6/6/2019 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14464904 NephilimGiants said:
Quote:
Really hope DJ turns out good but scouts say his QB comparison is Tanihill from dolphins and he sucked


The player comparisons are for style/skill set. If we got Tannehils first 4 years of production out of Jones I think everyone would be pretty happy, Hell I think the Jets would happy if they got that out of Darnold, or the Bills if they got that out of Allen. Tannehil, like him or dislike him was not a bad player for the dolphins and produced for them. He most certainly didn’t suck.
RE: RE: who's JG?  
Post Time : 6/6/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14464835 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14464770 Andy in Boston said:

Jay Gruden


" Played in a charity golf outing with Jay Gruden.

JG said that..."
RE: RE: Haskins and DJ both rated sa e for sy56 as 80 overall  
V.I.G. : 6/6/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14464929 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
If we got Tannehils first 4 years of production out of Jones I think everyone would be pretty happy


ehhhh, dunno about that...
DJ taken at #6...
and having barkley...
with next years QB class...

i'd be pretty unhappy if DJ became tanehill...
tannehill stats - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Haskins and DJ both rated sa e for sy56 as 80 overall  
widmerseyebrow : 6/6/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14464929 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
If we got Tannehils first 4 years of production out of Jones I think everyone would be pretty happy


That would be a terrible scenario imo. 4 years of not good enough to win a Super Bowl, not worth resigning, AND the opportunity cost of not drafting a better prospect in the next 4 years.
RE: Has anyone seen Hungry Hungry Haskins  
81_Great_Dane : 6/6/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14464737 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In a Redskins uniform? Holy crap Lorenzon 2.0 lol
I'm old enough to remember when Washington had pretty good success with flabby Sonny Jurgenson.
For all the talk of Haskins being a White Board Whiz  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/6/2019 2:47 pm : link
right now reports from the NFL Network from the Redskins' OTAs are that Case Keenum is "way ahead" of Haskins in knowledge and execution of Gruden's playbook.

Now, no one is comparing DJ8 to Eli in terms of playbook recognition in NJ, but keep in mind Keenum is also in his first year in Gruden's playbook.

Just food for thought.

I suppose the footspeed and mobility could be the major reason DG and PS preferred DJ8, but that huge wonderlic difference between Jones and Haskins (37 vs. 25) leads one to speculate, along with current reports, that Jones has the better head.

Nothing matters now except future results.
I too like the disclaimer  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/6/2019 3:12 pm : link
I may steal it from you V.I.G. -- but I'll give you credit : )
RE: I too like the disclaimer  
V.I.G. : 6/6/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14465094 gidiefor said:
Quote:
I may steal it from you V.I.G. -- but I'll give you credit : )


just run with it. make it the BBI version of the Aristocrats joke.
4 years of not good enough to win a super bowl  
BSIMatt : 6/6/2019 4:16 pm : link
Classic BBI.
RE: RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
RobCarpenter : 6/6/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14464755 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14464711 JonC said:


Quote:


The reports afterward to the contrary haven't carried the same weight to my eyes.



Congrats on your firstborn Jon. God bless that's awesome!

Regarding the Denver interest: taking all reports into account and how they dropped lower in the draft, I also believe they wanted DJ more than the claims otherwise.


Actions speak much louder than words. Trading out of #10 after the Jones pick says wonders, despite what Jay Glazer is saying.
Why did  
Mike from SI : 6/6/2019 4:42 pm : link
you make a post bashing Eli?
There one GREAT disclaimer!!!  
Dave on the UWS : 6/6/2019 5:00 pm : link
the hell with the info
RE: RE: I too like the disclaimer  
VTChuck : 6/6/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14465136 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14465094 gidiefor said:


Quote:


I may steal it from you V.I.G. -- but I'll give you credit : )



just run with it. make it the BBI version of the Aristocrats joke.



Love it. Already copied to a text file. Plan on using (stealing) it to use on all future posts, even NFT.
I Certainly  
lax counsel : 6/6/2019 6:15 pm : link
Wanted nothing to do with Haskins. He screams product of OSU and the talent around him.

DJ seems to have all of the characteristics you would want in a qb and word seems to be his camp is going very well, while displaying a very good arm (his biggest knock). That said, he has to be a consistent top 10 performing qb in this league for the pick to be worth it. Ryan Tannehill was pretty mediocre and I think we'd all be disappointed if that's DJ's ceiling. I think the narrative of the "rise of the mediocre qb", so often pointed to here on BBI was sufficiently dispelled last season after we saw four top qbs once again playing for the NFC and AFC championships, while Keenum and Bortles fell flat on their faces and Foles looked aggressively mediocre.

Bottom line, you need a consistently good qb to win in this league with any sort of regularity. If not, the Giants will probably look very similar to the 90s Lions, great running back, mediocre to pretty good, but never really a true threat to win anyway.

Here's hoping DJ is the next great one.
RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/6/2019 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14464711 JonC said:
Quote:
The reports afterward to the contrary haven't carried the same weight to my eyes.


There was a post by an asshat who felt uncomfortable sharing the information so I won't repeat it that said Elway really wanted DJ. All their actions and these "reports" just confirm it to me.
RE: who's JG?  
Jimmy Googs : 6/6/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14464770 Andy in Boston said:
Quote:
.


me...
RE: RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
JonC : 6/7/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14465251 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14464711 JonC said:


Quote:


The reports afterward to the contrary haven't carried the same weight to my eyes.



There was a post by an asshat who felt uncomfortable sharing the information so I won't repeat it that said Elway really wanted DJ. All their actions and these "reports" just confirm it to me.


Agreed.
RE: RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
bw in dc : 6/7/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14465251 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:


There was a post by an asshat who felt uncomfortable sharing the information so I won't repeat it that said Elway really wanted DJ. All their actions and these "reports" just confirm it to me.


Elway’s modus operandi has been drafting big, strong armed QBs - Osweiler, Lynch, Kelly, Lock.

He values arm quality.

Jones does/did not fit that profile. So I’ve never bought those reports you refer to and believe reports from guys like King instead.
RE: RE: RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
Jay on the Island : 6/7/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14465726 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14465251 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:




There was a post by an asshat who felt uncomfortable sharing the information so I won't repeat it that said Elway really wanted DJ. All their actions and these "reports" just confirm it to me.



Elway’s modus operandi has been drafting big, strong armed QBs - Osweiler, Lynch, Kelly, Lock.

He values arm quality.

Jones does/did not fit that profile. So I’ve never bought those reports you refer to and believe reports from guys like King instead.

Him signing Case Keenum last year and passing on Rosen and Josh Allen contradicts your argument. Also Osweiler has solid arm strength but he doesn't have what you would consider a strong arm. Kelly was also a 7th round pick, IIRC he was Mr. Irrelevant that year.

Elway also used a 7th round picks on Zac Dysert and Trevor Siemian who have average to below average arm strength.

List of QB's heights  
Jay on the Island : 6/7/2019 12:32 pm : link
Daniel Jones - 6'5

Case Keenum - 6'1
Chad Kelly - 6'2
Drew Lock - 6'4
Paxton Lynch - 6'7
Trevor Siemian - 6'4
Zac Dysert - 6'3
Brock Osweiler - 6'7


RE: List of QB's heights  
bw in dc : 6/7/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14465916 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones - 6'5

Case Keenum - 6'1
Chad Kelly - 6'2
Drew Lock - 6'4
Paxton Lynch - 6'7
Trevor Siemian - 6'4
Zac Dysert - 6'3
Brock Osweiler - 6'7



I agree Jones has the height, but his non-plus arm just doesn't fit the Elway prototype.

And they just added Flacco - another big, strong armed QB.

The move to acquire Keenum was a poor fit. And you are right, that he didn't fit Elway's prototype size-wise. But Keenum actually has a decent arm. And while he was drafted in the 7th round, Kelly has a terrific arm.
RE: RE: List of QB's heights  
Jay on the Island : 6/7/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14465937 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14465916 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones - 6'5

Case Keenum - 6'1
Chad Kelly - 6'2
Drew Lock - 6'4
Paxton Lynch - 6'7
Trevor Siemian - 6'4
Zac Dysert - 6'3
Brock Osweiler - 6'7





I agree Jones has the height, but his non-plus arm just doesn't fit the Elway prototype.

And they just added Flacco - another big, strong armed QB.

The move to acquire Keenum was a poor fit. And you are right, that he didn't fit Elway's prototype size-wise. But Keenum actually has a decent arm. And while he was drafted in the 7th round, Kelly has a terrific arm.

Keenum has an average at best arm. Jones' arm is much stronger than Keenum's. The reason Keenum finally played well in Minnesota was because he was protected in a dome. In the loss to the Eagles he was exposed and we saw how much he struggled outdoors in poor weather.

I guess the OTA and minicamp reports didn't put the arm strength concerns with Jones to rest.

I trust the few inside sources who claimed that Elway liked Jones at 10. Peter King has never shown to have connections inside NFL teams.
RE: RE: RE: I'm confident Denver wanted DJ  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/7/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14465726 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14465251 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:




There was a post by an asshat who felt uncomfortable sharing the information so I won't repeat it that said Elway really wanted DJ. All their actions and these "reports" just confirm it to me.



Elway’s modus operandi has been drafting big, strong armed QBs - Osweiler, Lynch, Kelly, Lock.

He values arm quality.

Jones does/did not fit that profile. So I’ve never bought those reports you refer to and believe reports from guys like King instead.


It was shocking to me too, but they did have a private workout and he probably impressed. All their actions during and post draft point to that he was their target. And King? Is that for real? I mean if you want to talk about his daughter's soccer teams chances this year sure, but NFL the guy has no connections anymore.
A few things  
BSIMatt : 6/7/2019 1:59 pm : link
Elways evaluation of quarterbacks has been horrendous...I mention that as it is possible if what you are suggesting were the case, he'd likely be more open minded to reconsidering his previous stance, as it clearly hasn't been working.

However...including Lock in a draft where Lock slid out of the first round entirely and Jones was drafted sixth isn't really relevant..it's not evidence he'd have selected Lock over Jones.

Including Chad Kelly, Mr. Irrelevant, as evidence of Elway preferring arm quality when he was literally the last selection of the entire draft is likely pointless.

So that leaves you down to Osweiler and Paxton Lynch and you might be overrating the arm talent here...

Quote:
WEAKNESSES Needs to improve ball placement for catch­-and­-run throws. Inability to throw with desired accuracy on the move forced him to leave yards and plays on the field. Must learn to better anticipate routes and stay ahead in the rep. Doesn't quite have the quickness through progressions that he will need in the pros. Has to learn to move defenders around with his eyes to open throwing lanes. At times, crowds targets against the sideline. Needs to stop babying play-­action passes and cut them loose. Consistency of arm strength has been overstated. Inconsistent weight transfer in delivery forces him to muscle some throws. Perimeter throws lack velocity and will nose­dive on him. His ball comes out with wobble and isn?t always the most catchable. Touch throws over inside linebackers needs work.


--The negatives on Paxton Lynch from his nfl.com scouting report. Just because a guy is 6-7 doesn't mean he has elite arm talent. Osweiler's calling card was a strong arm, I'm not sure it was heralded as an elite arm..and that's really the "knock" on Jones.

You are implying Daniel Jones lacks arm talent. Jones does not lack arm talent, however he does not have elite arm strength. Not having an elite "power arm" is not equivalent to lacking arm talent. I'd say most of the QBs drafted from year to year probably fall within the range of lacking elite arm strength...an attribute applied to guys like Mahomes, Josh Allen, Matthew Stafford, Jay Cutler etc. Most quarterbacks don't have that elite level arm strength..I don't think Lynch did(his arm strength is questioned right in his negatives on his scouting report)

, maybe Osweiler did.

Finally, the best quarterback that Elway ever had was Peyton, who never had elite arm strength, but checked just about every other box other than mobility. It is just as possible that of all the quarterbacks you mentioned in your post that Daniel Jones may have been the one who struck Elway has having some Manning like qualities that would translate well to the NFL level. A first round caliber quarterback with traits that were Manning-like, could also be very attractive to Elway.
I think the Elway-Manning link might be a bit understated here with regard to Denver and their possible interest in Jones.
Legendary Quarterback John Elway Can’t Figure Out Quarterbacks - ( New Window )
Paxton Lynch has a very strong arm. He isn't all that smart though  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/7/2019 2:18 pm : link
and to be a pocket passer in the NFL you need brains. I was pretty high on him until I saw his Wonderlic and heard him in some interviews.

But using a sample size of two doesn't really tell you much what Elway does and does not prefer. I mean he signed Case Keenum to a significant contract.
The only think Osweiler had in his favor was height  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2019 2:20 pm : link
and arm strength.

Elway's QB decisions have been mediocre if you want to be respectful. We have no basis to go on that he's good at that aspect of running a team.
No one...  
bw in dc : 6/7/2019 4:03 pm : link
especially me, is touting Elway's QB evaluation skills. But when you look at his QB selections, via draft, free agency, or trade, he has largely leaned towards strong armed players. It's pretty much inarguable.

So for him to have this interest in Jones would go against the grain of his preferences. And I don't get caught up in the information from these camps. Jones is working with a clean pocket, doesn't have the threat of getting hit, and can get to his mechanics. BFD. That's essentially every NFL QB.

Look, lots of guys look great in the batting cage, too, under ideal conditions. Lots of guys look great off the practice tee. The real test is when the lights are on and NFL defenses make you uncomfortable. Can you still get to your mechanics? And if not, can you still deliver the ball under duress and discomfort? Those traits remain to be seen with Jones...
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