I saw this video posted recently about Eli.
And I think its a good analysis of of the Giants offense and Eli.
At about the 9:30 mark he highlights a play against the Cowboys.
The reason I focus on this play is because of the play of Halapio and what I keep saying about him, and why I don't think he is a starting center.
My contention is that he does a poor job of reading the defense, calling the right protections, and putting himself in the right position to affect a play. And although he only played in 2 games last year, plus some time in the preseason, what we see on this play is on many many plays in his short tenure.
On this play he misreads the stunt and turns the wrong way and can't pick up the DL. He was also fooled by the disguise even though the Cowboys shifted long enough before the snap for him to see what was happening. There are 3 rushers to the his right, and 2 to his left, but he turns left which leave a free path to the QB.
If I saw this only onse, it would be one thing. But if you watched the Jags and Cowboy games, they are littered with the same thing over and over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDpOjIa8xdc 
Maybe he does well in practice but he has been awful in real time
Why is he rated so high in limited play last year. This is not the only site I seen that gave him a high rating.
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I'm not going to pretend to have studied film on him but my memory from watching him play is that he sucks
Maybe he does well in practice but he has been awful in real time
Why is he rated so high in limited play last year. This is not the only site I seen that gave him a high rating.
Part of the contention on this thread, and the difference you are seeing in the opinion of him is the fact that once he engages a man he does well. If that is all that you grade him on, he will grade out fairly well.
What I am pointing out are the clearly bad line calls, and the fact the he clearly misreads what is happening and turns to help, but turns the wrong way. Cases where there are 3 rushers on 2 blockers on one side, and even or more blockers on the other. He turns to the even or more blocker side. Its a mental issue that if you don't look for it, you won't see it.
On this thread, there are a bunch of folks passing judgement on the opinion I am expressing based on what I see. I will guarantee you that they did not watch any of the plays in question, even the ones I made easy by linking and providing the times. But they feel entitled to say that I am wrong because I am a chucklehead at home who couldn't possibly understand anything football. Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background, I think they are projecting...
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a couple of months ago and watched every play of the Jags game on the all-22 and I'd say this
- There is some good and bad on that tape for sure but actually only about 2 plays where I think I'd really want to get on Halapio for something.
- Flowers and Omameh are utterly brutal. You can see the gameplan is to try and let the vets on the right side get by whilst Pio helps the rookie but actually the rookie is a picture of stability.
- I really don't see the same volume of bad things you do. Should also be noted Pio flashes some really nice power for a center. If he can get a run in the team and the injury doesn't linger I think he can be an O'Hara type find.
If Halapio engages a man, he is a powerful guy. I commented earlier on his run blocking in particular. I am not referring to his physical play. But watch more carefully and look for situations where we had more defenders on one side, and guys blocking air on the other side, particularly on passing plays. Also watch his head on passing plays. He picks one side to help and stays with it. He never turns his head and checks the other side. A Center's head should be on a swivel. There were also some blown up running plays, where there were more defenders playside than blockers, and there are enough players that a different blocking scheme would have been a better call. These are the issues I see. Its more about reading the defense pre and post snap.
In the Jags game a lot of the time Pio had a double team. The scheme seemed to be pre-ordained. If that's the case and he did his job (as the coaching staff have stated he did) then you can't get on him too much.
I'm also not clear on how much Eli calls the audibles in the blocking scheme vs Pio.
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
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Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background,
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
Did you watch the plays?
What in your background allows you to judge me as a "chucklehead"?
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Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background,
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
I actually do have real experience breaking down film of OL play, its been a long time... But that is pretty much immaterial to this discussion, the mental mistakes I refer to are obvious if you look for them.
But go ahead, dismiss out of hand without even looking at the evidence I provided. And you call others trolls!
You really need me to repeat that some guy dissecting plays without having any idea of the assignments, the schemes or the audibles and yet tries to pass the assessment off as legitimate is what leads to the conclusion?
Then when called on it, you pull out the resume card - "Without knowing a damn thing about my background". Like I said above - if you aren't somebody with intimate knowledge of the playcalls and the assignment what in the fuck does your background have to do with it.
Hell, I could pull out a snarky comment about an analytical expert completely ignoring sample size, but that would just go down a dark path.
You really need me to repeat that some guy dissecting plays without having any idea of the assignments, the schemes or the audibles and yet tries to pass the assessment off as legitimate is what leads to the conclusion?
Then when called on it, you pull out the resume card - "Without knowing a damn thing about my background". Like I said above - if you aren't somebody with intimate knowledge of the playcalls and the assignment what in the fuck does your background have to do with it.
Hell, I could pull out a snarky comment about an analytical expert completely ignoring sample size, but that would just go down a dark path.
And yet you still make snarky comments without having watched the plays. I actually have some background in this, but its immaterial here, so I don't intend to get into it with you.
I have pointed out several things. Watch the plays and see if you see what I am pointing out.
1) There are plays where there are equal or more defenders to one side of the play, vs. more blockers than defenders on the other side. He turns to help the side with more blockers. You don't need much football knowledge to know that is wrong.
2) He doesn't look to both sides once the play is in flight. He picks a side and stays with it. A center without a man on him should be watching both sides to see where he is most needed. You don't need a whole lot of football knowledge to know that.
3) He is the center, I agree that it is very difficult to judge OL play without knowing the call... But!!! THe center is responsible for that call. If the call results in a clear mismatch of defenders vs. blockers, it is more than likely the wrong call. Again, not very hard to judge, and that is on the center.
None of these issues requires "knowing the call". All it requires is realizing that the wrong call or wrong decision was made, and that is on the center. All you need to do is watch the plays. Which clearly you lack the ability to do.
Yet they ignore the history of college o-linemen who worked at their craft and gotten better. And although it is substantially less than a majority, it is not an insignificant number.
For those that I have lost. think Remmers just as an example or if we don't want to play fair, think Brady.
And remember all that film that you are studying to justify your preconceived notion. By definition film is the past. It may be the best predictor of the future, but there is no absolute correlation.
I guess fuckstick has run its course at this point...
I am well aware that it is a new position for him and he is inexperienced. But as has been pointed out, he has been in the league long enough that you would hope it would be such a long learning curve. Perhaps the light bulb will go off in his head and he will become amazing. I have my doubts. Is that a huge stretch?
I am willing to try him as a backup until he learns. But, the man is 27 about to be 28 in a couple weeks. How long can you continue to experiment with him? Is that such a stretch?
I pointed out that he is a better run blocker at center than we have had in a while. But that is only part of what a center needs to do. He is good when physically engaged, I have granted that numerous times on this thread. To me, the physical part of a center's game is secondary to hi mental part. Rightly or wrongly I put far more weight on the mental part for a center. You can disagree with that, and we can agree to disagree. That's fine.
You guys make it sound like I went crazy hyberbolic here. I don't think anything I have said is outlandish, hyperbolic. Everything I have said I have provided backup evidence to support.
Calling me a "chucklehead", or other disparaging comment without having looked at the evidence is trolling plain and simple.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Even having access to the all-22 camera view, you'd also need to quite familiar with the way current day NFL defenses scheme and disguise scheme.
Yet they ignore the history of college o-linemen who worked at their craft and gotten better. And although it is substantially less than a majority, it is not an insignificant number.
For those that I have lost. think Remmers just as an example or if we don't want to play fair, think Brady.
And remember all that film that you are studying to justify your preconceived notion. By definition film is the past. It may be the best predictor of the future, but there is no absolute correlation.
Sure, he might get better. Which is why I am willing to let him learn as a backup for a while... Counting on him to start is foolish IMHO. Last year the team counted on him to start with absolutely no viable alternative. This year at least there is Pulley who is more ready to play and rates as a reasonable backup.
Even having access to the all-22 camera view, you'd also need to quite familiar with the way current day NFL defenses scheme and disguise scheme.
I siad this before. I am basing it on the matchups. For example having 3 rushers to one side, 2 to the other, and the side that had only 2 rushers already has 3 blockers (G, T, TE). The side that has the mismatch, 3 rushers on 2 blockers, should be the center's responsibility to balance out unless it is a designed screen or a rollout. Time after time, Halapio turns to help on the side where there are already enough blockers. If he reads it correctly, he should turn to help the side that is overmatched. Never leave a defender a free path to the QB, especially up the middle.
Yes, Flowers and Omameh were shit shows. But to the point, I cannot fully judge what they did without knowing the line call. For example Flowers bites on the fake blitz... Depending on the line call, that blitzer may or may not be his responsibility. Now his footwork was for shit, and he gave himself no chance to recover. But I can't tell if he should have been worried about the LB or not.
Omameh clearly believes his only responsibility is the man in front of him. Either he wasn't fooled by the fake blitz, or based on the call not his man. But he does a shitty job holding the block.
What is clear is that there is potentially more rushers than blockers to that side. Halapio has honor the possibility that the MLB might blitz, but after that, he has to be helping on the right, not the left. Based on the line call the, one of those rushers would have to be his man.
Barkley is going out in the pattern, (in fact I believe this play was designed to go to Barkley), so Barkley cannot be considered a potential blocker on this play.
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
That isn't a knock against credentials - it is the reality of some fan watching tape and coming to conclusions without knowing assignments, schemes or the playcalls.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Wouldn't be being a dickhead the schmuck that watches a few plays and then makes the assessment that a guy in not a NFL Caliber starter and lacks the mental acuity to play the position.
If I'm a dickhead for pointing out that smug arrogance, I'll gladly piss out of my skull.
Either George Orwell or Fox news is influencing the Corner Forum.
That isn't a knock against credentials - it is the reality of some fan watching tape and coming to conclusions without knowing assignments, schemes or the playcalls.
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Calling me a "chucklehead", or other disparaging comment without having looked at the evidence is trolling plain and simple.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Wouldn't be being a dickhead the schmuck that watches a few plays and then makes the assessment that a guy in not a NFL Caliber starter and lacks the mental acuity to play the position.
If I'm a dickhead for pointing out that smug arrogance, I'll gladly piss out of my skull.
Oh its being a dickhead, if the dickhead doesn't look at the supporting evidence and even attempt a rational debate, and falls back on name calling as a his first knee jerk reaction. Nothing else to call that except being a dickhead.
If you read the explanation I gave TTH for the Jag's pick 6 play. You will see a LB faking a blitz to the right. IF that LB fallowed through with that blitz, then there are 2 blockers for 3 rushers. Halapio turns his back on the right and is facing left. He can't have any clue whether that LB is blitzing or not because he is looking to help on the side that alread has 3 blockers on 2 defenders. With him that makes it 4 on 2, while the other side is actualy 2 on 2, but could have been 2 on 3. There is no other conclusion to make here other than Halapio went the wrong way. If you look, even a chucklehead like you can see it.
If that LB had actually blitzed there are 3 possibilities.
1) Its Flowers job to pick up the blitzer, and Halapio has to fall back deep get behind the right guard and push the DE behind Manning.
2) Its Omameh's job to get the LB, in which case Halapio has to take the right DT.
3) Its Halapio's job to pick up the blitz, in which case he again has to get behind the right guard to cut off the LB.
In no circumstance is it the correct choice to turn your back on that side so you cannot see what's happening and focus entirely on a side where you have a G, T, and TE blocking only 2 defenders.
The Dallas play in the OP. Same thing, he turns left, turning his back to the right and taking himself out of any chance of picking up the stunting DL coming right to him. Again, this can never be the correct thing to do.
The other plays I linked from the highlights are more difficult to see from the angle, but if you watch carefully, they are similar. He turns the wrong way. If the problem was the line call, well... That is his fault.
Either George Orwell or Fox news is influencing the Corner Forum.
I think those that like Halapio see his power and abilities as a physical blocker, which are granted far superior to any center that I can recall since Dusty Ziegler. Halapio is a very large and powerful guy. If he gets on a defender, its over for the defender. From that perspective I can understand why some people and coaches like what they see.
What I am pointing out is the mental aspect. Which some have argued that he was new to the position so it is to be expected. To which I say fine, until he has developed that part of his game, he is not a starter, because that part, IMHO, is more important than the physical part.
What does looking at the "supporting evidence" accomplish if neither you nor I know what to make of it? What rational debate do you expect to take place when you've taken it upon yourself to be the arbiter of who is an NFL-caliber player and who has the mental acuity to succeed?
The main problem is you don't see the folly of making these sweeping judgements. That's what I'm pointing out. It has nothing to do with the "film". It has to do with smug arrogance.
And I already said I'm a dickhead. But you likely aren't going to admit that you know jackshit.
Coach told him: keep an eye out for the rookie Hernandez!
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In comment 14465362 BigBlueShock said:
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That he was new to the center position, right? Apparently patience is not your strong suit. Let’s judge a guy playing a brand new position, an extremely difficult position, based on a few plays in all of two games...
FFS man
I do realize he is new to the position...
You do realize that maybe, just maybe its not a great idea to throw a guy with no experience out there at center, which is by far the most complex position on the line.
You want to experiment with him at center... fine, let him backup for a year or two. But to just throw him out there when he has no clue what he is doing, and especialy to leave yourself no other viable alternative, is just asinine.
And now we are a year later and he has all of 2 games under his belt. I doubt much has changed yet. And yet again we are counting on him to man the position. Personally I am not a big fan of Pulley either, but he is lightyears ahead of Halapio.
Shurmur was the starting center for Mich State. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he might know just a tiny bit more on what it takes to play center than you?
Are you serious? A NFL coach who played the position knows something? Nah. Dude on message board who watched stuff on Youtube knows way more. Look at how he is expertly breaking down plays he found online. All those years of playing backyard football with his brothers are paying off. Who needs years of coaching experience at college and the NFL. We got the internet so we are all experts now! He knows exactly what is happening on every play given his vast Madden NFL 2019 experience. The Giants should listen to him and let him pick the players and coach them. Trust me.
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In comment 14465495 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
Again - they both mentioned the guy by name in situations where there was really no reason to after the season ended.
Gettleman saying "don't forget about Pio" was said completely on his own accord. He wasn't even asked about him.
They're just doing this for shits and giggles even if they don't think he's any good? They have him slated to start just because they think he's a nice guy?
Maybe they actually like the player. But for some reason, you aren't willing to accept that - despite that being the most logical truth.
Who said anything about a budding star? Do we need to use hyperbole for effect here?
He's most likely a stop gap.
I'm not willing to just accept that he "sucks" because a few novice youtube watchers think they know how to analyze offensive line play better than the people getting paid to do it for the team.
Gettleman and Shurmur may well be wrong about the guy, but I'm pretty damn sure that they weren't going out of their way to talk about him as a way to send smoke signals out to the media or throw people off. What do they gain by lying about it?
But, despite that being entirely less believable than them maybe just liking the guy and thinking he can swing playing in the middle - that's the story we're going with.
Got it.
Coach told him: keep an eye out for the rookie Hernandez!
that's it, mystery solved...
...Center is the most important position on the LOS and JH is stop gap material at best. He will be replaced within a year.
Because if you did, and you looked at what I am pointing out to be looked at, you will see what I see. Instead of saying that I don't know what I am looking at, you will say, ok I see something went wrong. The decisions that the players are making regarding their responsibilities simply cannot be right. You cannot have 4 blocking 2 on one side, an d2 blocking 3 on the other leaving an open path to the QB. Or having 4 blocking two on one side and completely ignoring the twist coming right at you.
And it is obvious to anybody who cares to look that Halapio has taken himself out of any possible play on one side or the other. He turns his back on one side of the field. He cannot possibly see anything that happens to that side, including blitzes and/or stunts, where he is the only available blocker to help. It is clear that something went wrong.
We may debate what went wrong, but in the end when the same thing shows up on 1/3 maybe more of all passing plays, and its always Halapio who is out of position, and it is Halapio's responsibility to make sure that everybody on the line is in the right position, then defending him becomes less and less tenable. Any chucklehead or youtube novice can see that something is wrong with what Halapio is doing. I have no clue what he should have done, but what he did is indefensible.
BlueLou makes a decent point about helping the rookie. It is by far the best pro-Halapio explanation anybody has offered. If indeed, that is what happened, then Halapio took it to the extreme, completely abdicating any responsibility that he might have to the other side of the field. I would be surprised if the coaches wanted him to do that. But possible I guess.
As for why the coaches have good things to say. As I have said numerous times on this thread, he is a big powerful guy. When he locks onto a defender, its all over for that defender. Coaches see that and have wet dreams about how they might be able to use that ability. And they believe they can teach anybody (which is not a bad thing). So they have full confidence that they can teach this guy the nuances of the center position and get him ready in no time. So, of course they are going to speak highly of him. Gettleman as well. What do you expect? Do you really think these guys are going to come out and say the guy sucks and I haven't made any moves to get a better replacement... Seriously? Haven't you guys been listening to coach and GM speak long enough to know that you can't trust it. I mean they talked up Apple last offseason, and then dumped him mid season. Gettlemen talked up how Jonathon Stewart hadn't lost a step... Seriously? C'mon really? You're going to tell me that you really believe all the bullshit they shovel you.
And as for sharing an opinion and having a debate out it. Isn't that what this site is all about? Sure, we are all chuckleheads, when has that ever stopped arc, FMIC, or any one of us from sharing an opinion.
As for "sweeping statements" FMIC.... For christs sakes. In the Op I said "I don't THINK he is a starting center", and later I said that "I DOUBT he has the mental acumen", those are both qualified and clearly my OPINION. And the reason I doubt as has been stated on this thread is he will be 28 when the season starts. This is his 6th year, if he really had it, in all likelihood we would have already seen it. But I will leave room for the possibility. As I said, I am ok with the experiment, but while he is backing up, not starting. None of that is sweeping hyperbolic rhetoric. You cherry pick and take it out of context and put hyperbole around it so that you can pass some bullshit judgement about how great you are and how everybody else on this site sucks. And you still haven't even looked at the evidence... Fact is, you suck!
As for "sweeping statements" FMIC.... For christs sakes. In the Op I said "I don't THINK he is a starting center", and later I said that "I DOUBT he has the mental acumen", those are both qualified and clearly my OPINION. And the reason I doubt as has been stated on this thread is he will be 28 when the season starts. This is his 6th year, if he really had it, in all likelihood we would have already seen it. But I will leave room for the possibility. As I said, I am ok with the experiment, but while he is backing up, not starting. None of that is sweeping hyperbolic rhetoric. You cherry pick and take it out of context and put hyperbole around it so that you can pass some bullshit judgement about how great you are and how everybody else on this site sucks. And you still haven't even looked at the evidence... Fact is, you suck!
Here is my reply - you are full of crap. You are basing your entire premise on about 6 quarters. You know nothing. My proof - Shurmur played center. Shurmur knows centers. DG knows OL. If they wanted to replace him, they would have. They replaced damn near everyone on the team.
Can he end up being a failure - anyone can. You think Pulley is better - he was pushed around all year. You might consider giving him 8 games this year before condemning him to the fires of hell. Yeah he had a bad 1st game. But the second was noticeably better until he got hurt.
So that is it for me. Have a happy life.
Is he All Pro - absolutely not at this time.
.McL. : 7:37 pm : link : reply
at the plays?
Again - what does looking at the plays matter if you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. It really isn't more pointed or direct than that.
Stating it plainly - you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. You cannot possibly determine what is going on without knowing the playcall, the scheme or the assignments. 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit doesn't overcome that basic point.
So, for teams that alternate between zone and man blocking schemes, wouldn't the lack of verbal directions from the center mark or indicate, to the D, prior to snap, that it's going to be zone?
So, for teams that alternate between zone and man blocking schemes, wouldn't the lack of verbal directions from the center mark or indicate, to the D, prior to snap, that it's going to be zone?
Its mostly pass protection we are talking about here.
I think I see some mistakes in the blocking scheme in the running game at times, but I admittedly I don't really know. Overall, he did ok in the running game.
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In comment 14465736 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14465495 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
Again - they both mentioned the guy by name in situations where there was really no reason to after the season ended.
Gettleman saying "don't forget about Pio" was said completely on his own accord. He wasn't even asked about him.
They're just doing this for shits and giggles even if they don't think he's any good? They have him slated to start just because they think he's a nice guy?
Maybe they actually like the player. But for some reason, you aren't willing to accept that - despite that being the most logical truth.
Who said anything about a budding star? Do we need to use hyperbole for effect here?
He's most likely a stop gap.
I'm not willing to just accept that he "sucks" because a few novice youtube watchers think they know how to analyze offensive line play better than the people getting paid to do it for the team.
Gettleman and Shurmur may well be wrong about the guy, but I'm pretty damn sure that they weren't going out of their way to talk about him as a way to send smoke signals out to the media or throw people off. What do they gain by lying about it?
But, despite that being entirely less believable than them maybe just liking the guy and thinking he can swing playing in the middle - that's the story we're going with.
Got it.
Gettleman liked Omameh enough to overpay for a shit guard. It happens.
There have been countless examples over the years where the Giants staff and/or FO hyped up a guy and he amounts to nothing. Again, it happens. This “appealing to authority” bullshit is the most tiresome argument on this site.
I’m not suggesting it’s an intentional or malicious, this happens in all forms of business environments. Someone gets liked or vouched for or exhibits some qualities at the right place/time and gets backed by the decision makers despite not having the performance to justify it. This is people, not robots. They make mistakes and have their own biases and blind spots.
The reality is there’s no objective evidence or proof to justify having confidence in Halapio as the starting center of the New York Giants in 2019. None. He has no track record of success. He’s a 27 year old journeyman at best, fringe roster guy trying to make the most of his last shot at worst. This is the reality. Anyone who’s already penciling him in as an average starter or solid starter is a donk blinded by their fandom.
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Do you know how I know you guys didn't even spend 1 minute to look
.McL. : 7:37 pm : link : reply
at the plays?
Again - what does looking at the plays matter if you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. It really isn't more pointed or direct than that.
Stating it plainly - you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. You cannot possibly determine what is going on without knowing the playcall, the scheme or the assignments. 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit doesn't overcome that basic point.
Again you are a dense dickhead... Finish the dam quote and don't take it out of context...
So you are just too arrogant to even look. Too cock sure of your righteousness. Too willing to pass judgement about something you know absolutely nothing about not because it is unknowable, but because you refuse to look or learn.
You call me dense and stupid... Take a look in the mirror, you purposely keep yourself dense and stupid.
Again - two fools looking at something they don't know shit about proves what exactly??
Too arrogant to look? I'm openly admitting that I cannot assess what is going on without knowing the scheme, the assignments or the playcall.
You? Not only can you make an assessment, but you can say who is and who isn't a NFL caliber player and who has the mental acuity to play the position.
Are you sure you even know what the fuck arrogant means?? At this point, you are carrying on like a smug clueless assbag.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
Are you saying Halapio is actually good? Do you even have a position? Or did you just blast the thread bc OP isn’t the fucking offensive coordinator of the Giants?
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What I am saying is that if you look at the video and watch Halapio and look for what I wrote, ANYBODY on this board can see a mistake was made. ANYBODY! That it takes no special insight or knowledge that there was a mistake. I am NOT claiming special insight or knowledge.
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this discussion.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
Are you saying Halapio is actually good? Do you even have a position? Or did you just blast the thread bc OP isn’t the fucking offensive coordinator of the Giants?
That is exactly what he he is doing, because he loves being the dickhead.
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
There you go again adding hyperbole where there was none.
I said I THINK he is not a STARTING center. And that I DOUBT that he will become one this late in his career.
I left open the possibility that he could become one! I endorsed the experiment, but I believe everybody is better served by keeping him as a backup until he is more ready.
I also BOLDLY claimed no special insight or understanding. But, that what can be easily seen by anybody who cares to look, cannot possibly be right.
Those are the things I have said. Absolutely none of that is hyperbole.
Tell me FMiC, that you have never watched a game and seen something where it was obvious that a player screwed up. You have never seen any play ever, where you could pinpoint that a specific player screwed up. If that is the case, then we know all we ever need to know about you.
WillVab is right, you have added absolutely nothing to this conversation, except to launch ad-hominem attacks on me.
John in CO. I never wrote the guy off. For the umpteenth time, I endorse the experiment, I'm just not convinced that it's a good idea to have him do it as the starting center. Not yet anyway.
The whole point of this thread was that I wanted to show people who are interested the downside of his game right now. The coaches talk him up, but coaches also talked up the likes of Jonas Seawright, Mitch Petrus and Tam Hopkins... I'm not buying it.
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
The OP’s conclusion is he doesn’t believe Halapio is a starting caliber center. That’s the point. Do you agree or disagree? Why? Or did you just come here to shit on the methodology?
Did you really feel the masses on BBI were going to be "hoodwinked" by this?
lord, you are a tool sometimes...
Sometimes????????????? It's not "sometimes." It's a lot. He's a troll. He lies and/or over-exaggerates points just as he is doing now.
I had said on a thread a while back that -- imo Darnold is lock that he's going to "good." In his reply to me to paraphrase- first he addressed my post that I can't know if he is going to be "good" then in the same post he later said in a para or so later to paraphrase that no one could possibly know that Darnold will be "great."
*I never said "great." I replied to him and told him my post did not say "great" and he was mis-representing my post. YOU KNOW WHAT THE SNEAKY BASTARD DID?
He replied to me by copying his 1st statement that he didn't say "great" he said "Good." It wouldn't matter that much but when I tell the troll when he does that shit it "invites" others to mis-represent the post. Which ofc happened that the poster "DJM" later replied to me that I was wrong and Fatman was right that no one could predict yet that Darnold could be "transcendent."
Fatman does this shit all the time. It's no surprise FatHead is at it again. Ohh- I just made a mis-spelling. Fatman will be all over that one.
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
What's more is let me tell you the Value I brought to this thread. I made the effort to watch his play, I made the effort to link 4 plays that I could find. All of them showing something that people may not have noticed before. If you look specifically at what I am describing, anybody can see it as well. Different people notice different things. And while not claiming any special or inside knowledge, I notice center play. I noticed these issues when I saw the games live. I shared with the board something I noticed back last year, and was reminded of it when I saw the linked video.
If you don't care to notice it, no problem, but there is no need to be hurling insults at me.
I think there are more people on this board that would find it interesting to see something they may not have noticed, than read the rants of a self righteous, know nothing, dickheads.
That is the value that I brought.
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In comment 14465568 English Alaister said:
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a couple of months ago and watched every play of the Jags game on the all-22 and I'd say this
- There is some good and bad on that tape for sure but actually only about 2 plays where I think I'd really want to get on Halapio for something.
- Flowers and Omameh are utterly brutal. You can see the gameplan is to try and let the vets on the right side get by whilst Pio helps the rookie but actually the rookie is a picture of stability.
- I really don't see the same volume of bad things you do. Should also be noted Pio flashes some really nice power for a center. If he can get a run in the team and the injury doesn't linger I think he can be an O'Hara type find.
If Halapio engages a man, he is a powerful guy. I commented earlier on his run blocking in particular. I am not referring to his physical play. But watch more carefully and look for situations where we had more defenders on one side, and guys blocking air on the other side, particularly on passing plays. Also watch his head on passing plays. He picks one side to help and stays with it. He never turns his head and checks the other side. A Center's head should be on a swivel. There were also some blown up running plays, where there were more defenders playside than blockers, and there are enough players that a different blocking scheme would have been a better call. These are the issues I see. Its more about reading the defense pre and post snap.
In the Jags game a lot of the time Pio had a double team. The scheme seemed to be pre-ordained. If that's the case and he did his job (as the coaching staff have stated he did) then you can't get on him too much.
I'm also not clear on how much Eli calls the audibles in the blocking scheme vs Pio.
EA, my apologies for missing your comments, I was distracted by a dickhead.
Regarding Manning making the line calls. I know that under Coughlin that he made line calls at the very least some of the time. I believe that was specifically taken away from him by this coaching staff. Something I remember reading in preseason and being surprised about considering the inexperience at center.
With regards to double teams. I think what you are saying holds more for running plays than passing plays. BlueLou pointed out that maybe the coaches told him to watch the rookie. While that is almost certainly true, I find it hard to believe that they wanted him to completely abandon other center responsibilities... I would think it would be more of a look that way first, then look the other. If the coaching staff told him to turn his back on the right side to help the rookie, then, that would be on the coaching staff... That's not a good look either, and one I would prefer not to believe.