I saw this video posted recently about Eli.
And I think its a good analysis of of the Giants offense and Eli.
At about the 9:30 mark he highlights a play against the Cowboys.
The reason I focus on this play is because of the play of Halapio and what I keep saying about him, and why I don't think he is a starting center.
My contention is that he does a poor job of reading the defense, calling the right protections, and putting himself in the right position to affect a play. And although he only played in 2 games last year, plus some time in the preseason, what we see on this play is on many many plays in his short tenure.
On this play he misreads the stunt and turns the wrong way and can't pick up the DL. He was also fooled by the disguise even though the Cowboys shifted long enough before the snap for him to see what was happening. There are 3 rushers to the his right, and 2 to his left, but he turns left which leave a free path to the QB.
If I saw this only onse, it would be one thing. But if you watched the Jags and Cowboy games, they are littered with the same thing over and over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDpOjIa8xdc 
Shurmur was the starting center for Mich State. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he might know just a tiny bit more on what it takes to play center than you?
The problems with Halapio at center are manifest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see them. You just have to watch.
I think the Giants are blinded by hope rather than reality. Perhaps Halapio is great in the film room and diagramming... Perhaps the Giants are hoping that that intelligence will translate to the field. But, I have my doubts that he has the mental faculty to play the position. Its not just smarts, its being able to process quickly when the bullets are flying. Its the same reason why most QBs fail in the NFL. The problems him at center, IMO, are too frequent and too egregious.
problems are manifest? WTF does that mean.
You did not answer my question did you? You actually feel you know more about a player, his ability and his mental acuity by sitting behind a TV and seeing a couple parts of a few games than a HC, OLine coach and a GM? If you paid attention he played a better game before he was injured than the previous. And he did suck in the 1st game.
And BTW, since Omameh failed miserably and Hernandez was a 2nd game rookie, do you know for certain that they were not the ones that screwed up, especially since Omameh had trouble picking up stunts and blocking assignments until he was finally cut.
You may be right that Halapio is not the answer. I'm just not believing you know more than Shurmur and Gettleman. And I'm certainly not looking forward to seeing Pulley end up in Eli's lap on passing downs.
To quote a guy who left this place and never looked back - "Wow. Just Wow"
But comparing Barkley and Halapio are really different. First off, a RB's "good vs. bad" is pretty straightforward - did he gain yards. But even then, I wouldn't trust a lot of people on BBI to break down if he gained the maximum amount of yards and what holes he missed.
Extrapolate that to the OL and you have chuckleheads watching "tape" trying to assert if Halapio is calling out the right protection schemes? LOL.
For all we know - the protection was fine, but Flowers blew the pickup or Hernandez in his first couple of games was trying to figure out what was going on. It's kind of like the PFF rating system - unqualified people trying to tell others what a player's assignment was "supposed" to be.
That's the real issue here. A coaching staff that saw how poor Flowers and Omameh were playing yet seems to give Halapio a bit of credit, likely knows more than some guy watching footage and making a shitload of assumptions.
I totally agree. But then it's not really about sample size, is it? It's about the situation being obvious enough for a layperson to identify the issues (good or bad). Clearly, most of us are not qualified to really analyze NFL OL play (where is B in ALB when you need him?), but it's a worthwhile discussion nonetheless, IMO.
From my perspective, I saw a lot of the same struggles the OP points out during JH's short stint last season. And I feel like the OL started to improve when Halapio got hurt. But I'm also very aware that this is a post hoc/propter hoc situation also and that the OL was likely to improve anyway simply as a factor of time (and because they really had nowhere to go but up).
We'll see how Halapio does this season and I agree that DG and PS should get the benefit of the doubt here, but I don't know how much of their faith is legitimate and how much is coach/GM-speak.
Okay, now let’s continue with the false reports and opinions.
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to just throw him out there when he has no clue what he is doing, and especialy to leave yourself no other viable alternative, is just asinine.
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Did I miss something, or isn't there a competition mat center with Pulley? Pulley isn't an alternative? Evan brown isn't on the roster, in his 2nd year? Don't they have O'Hagan, and aren't Giants coaches high on him? "James O'Hagan earned the No. 1 pass blocking grade among all draft-eligible centers during the 2016 and 2017".
Halapio is a known bust and the Giants have NO viable alternatives? They just neglected the position and left themselves wide open? GTFO here......
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That he was new to the center position, right? Apparently patience is not your strong suit. Let’s judge a guy playing a brand new position, an extremely difficult position, based on a few plays in all of two games...
FFS man
Halapio is 27, been kicking around for 5 season now and has been with 4 different teams. One would think he would have picked up a few things along the way. The OP is pointing out his miscues reading defensese, not center technique. Halapio must have the learning curve of a stump.
Tyler Biadasz
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In comment 14465362 BigBlueShock said:
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That he was new to the center position, right? Apparently patience is not your strong suit. Let’s judge a guy playing a brand new position, an extremely difficult position, based on a few plays in all of two games...
FFS man
Halapio is 27, been kicking around for 5 season now and has been with 4 different teams. One would think he would have picked up a few things along the way. The OP is pointing out his miscues reading defensese, not center technique. Halapio must have the learning curve of a stump.
That's not what he said, he said he's a known bust and the Giants have zero behind him, and it's a panic issue.
Who is panicking .McL? If DG was worried (not panicked) he would have drafted a C or got one in FA. Instead they drafted a OT.
They seem pretty certain in what they are doing.
Maybe not the tall ones who look like tackles, but the technicians and not light.
Even if pio works out.
In addition, conflict of interest or not, I can see no reason why he would risk embarrassing himself, or his training school, by strongly going to bat for a high risk of failure.
But it's still a work in progress and we are weakest at the most important position: Center.
Jon Halapio is not the long term solution. He's a stop gap. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not watching.
LT's making an average of $8.1M/yr might want to donate some of that cheddar to the real guys doing the work.
The C's who average $2.2M/yr.
The stuff that gets thrown around here as if they are facts is pretty damn funny.
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
Every front office/coaching staff gets some wrong and imo they've done so with Halapio. I expect Pulley to be the starting OC before too long. Hopefully before the preseason games get underway.
Jimmy Googs : 10:07 am : link : reply
someone to point out and criticize a comment that was clearly not said in a manner to be a cold-hard fact...
Do you have that many problems reading??
This isn't presented as fact?
There's no "possibly the most important position" no qualifier. Just that we are weakest at THE most important position.
But you got to work ponderous in. Kudos.
Perhaps the blitz pick was no his responsibility.
Did you really feel the masses on BBI were going to be "hoodwinked" by this?
lord, you are a tool sometimes...
Just work on your written communication skills a bit...
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
To be clear, in my OP I said he is not a starting center, and I stand by that statement. Perhaps because he is too new to the position, perhaps its because he just doesn't have the processing ability required of the position. Whatever the case, as of new, he not an NFL starting center. Nowhere did I say cut him, stop the experitment, that he sucks, etc... What I say is that he not a starting center, not at this time. It's fine to give him reps in pre-season or in garbage time to give him experience. Throwing him to the wolves when he doesn't know what he is doing doesn't do anybody any good. As I said earlier, you want to experiment with him, let him backup for a while, not start.
Is there anyone on the roster you believe has the best chance to be a quality starting center?
I haven't seen enough of Evan Brown to comment. Pulley is a decent backup.
- There is some good and bad on that tape for sure but actually only about 2 plays where I think I'd really want to get on Halapio for something.
- Flowers and Omameh are utterly brutal. You can see the gameplan is to try and let the vets on the right side get by whilst Pio helps the rookie but actually the rookie is a picture of stability.
- I really don't see the same volume of bad things you do. Should also be noted Pio flashes some really nice power for a center. If he can get a run in the team and the injury doesn't linger I think he can be an O'Hara type find.
If Halapio engages a man, he is a powerful guy. I commented earlier on his run blocking in particular. I am not referring to his physical play. But watch more carefully and look for situations where we had more defenders on one side, and guys blocking air on the other side, particularly on passing plays. Also watch his head on passing plays. He picks one side to help and stays with it. He never turns his head and checks the other side. A Center's head should be on a swivel. There were also some blown up running plays, where there were more defenders playside than blockers, and there are enough players that a different blocking scheme would have been a better call. These are the issues I see. Its more about reading the defense pre and post snap.
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Shurmur was the starting center for Mich State. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he might know just a tiny bit more on what it takes to play center than you?
The problems with Halapio at center are manifest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see them. You just have to watch.
I think the Giants are blinded by hope rather than reality. Perhaps Halapio is great in the film room and diagramming... Perhaps the Giants are hoping that that intelligence will translate to the field. But, I have my doubts that he has the mental faculty to play the position. Its not just smarts, its being able to process quickly when the bullets are flying. Its the same reason why most QBs fail in the NFL. The problems him at center, IMO, are too frequent and too egregious.
problems are manifest? WTF does that mean.
You did not answer my question did you? You actually feel you know more about a player, his ability and his mental acuity by sitting behind a TV and seeing a couple parts of a few games than a HC, OLine coach and a GM? If you paid attention he played a better game before he was injured than the previous. And he did suck in the 1st game.
And BTW, since Omameh failed miserably and Hernandez was a 2nd game rookie, do you know for certain that they were not the ones that screwed up, especially since Omameh had trouble picking up stunts and blocking assignments until he was finally cut.
You may be right that Halapio is not the answer. I'm just not believing you know more than Shurmur and Gettleman. And I'm certainly not looking forward to seeing Pulley end up in Eli's lap on passing downs.
Yes I know for certain he made some bad judgements...
Clearly more defenders on one side than the other, and he turns to the side where we have enough blockers. He is the one guy who should
A) Be reading that
B) Since he doesn't have a guy over him, figuring out the right place to help.
That is what I mean by manifest. I.E. it is obvious that even a "chucklehead" like me can figure out a mistake was made by watching the video.
link - ( New Window )
Maybe he does well in practice but he has been awful in real time
Maybe he does well in practice but he has been awful in real time
Why is he rated so high in limited play last year. This is not the only site I seen that gave him a high rating.
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I'm not going to pretend to have studied film on him but my memory from watching him play is that he sucks
Maybe he does well in practice but he has been awful in real time
Why is he rated so high in limited play last year. This is not the only site I seen that gave him a high rating.
Part of the contention on this thread, and the difference you are seeing in the opinion of him is the fact that once he engages a man he does well. If that is all that you grade him on, he will grade out fairly well.
What I am pointing out are the clearly bad line calls, and the fact the he clearly misreads what is happening and turns to help, but turns the wrong way. Cases where there are 3 rushers on 2 blockers on one side, and even or more blockers on the other. He turns to the even or more blocker side. Its a mental issue that if you don't look for it, you won't see it.
On this thread, there are a bunch of folks passing judgement on the opinion I am expressing based on what I see. I will guarantee you that they did not watch any of the plays in question, even the ones I made easy by linking and providing the times. But they feel entitled to say that I am wrong because I am a chucklehead at home who couldn't possibly understand anything football. Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background, I think they are projecting...
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a couple of months ago and watched every play of the Jags game on the all-22 and I'd say this
- There is some good and bad on that tape for sure but actually only about 2 plays where I think I'd really want to get on Halapio for something.
- Flowers and Omameh are utterly brutal. You can see the gameplan is to try and let the vets on the right side get by whilst Pio helps the rookie but actually the rookie is a picture of stability.
- I really don't see the same volume of bad things you do. Should also be noted Pio flashes some really nice power for a center. If he can get a run in the team and the injury doesn't linger I think he can be an O'Hara type find.
If Halapio engages a man, he is a powerful guy. I commented earlier on his run blocking in particular. I am not referring to his physical play. But watch more carefully and look for situations where we had more defenders on one side, and guys blocking air on the other side, particularly on passing plays. Also watch his head on passing plays. He picks one side to help and stays with it. He never turns his head and checks the other side. A Center's head should be on a swivel. There were also some blown up running plays, where there were more defenders playside than blockers, and there are enough players that a different blocking scheme would have been a better call. These are the issues I see. Its more about reading the defense pre and post snap.
In the Jags game a lot of the time Pio had a double team. The scheme seemed to be pre-ordained. If that's the case and he did his job (as the coaching staff have stated he did) then you can't get on him too much.
I'm also not clear on how much Eli calls the audibles in the blocking scheme vs Pio.
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
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Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background,
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
Did you watch the plays?
What in your background allows you to judge me as a "chucklehead"?
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Yet they don't know a damned thing about me or my background,
What in your background would make you qualified to know what the OL assignments are and if they are missed? What in your background would have you assess a player's mental acuity?
There might be some projecting going on, and it is that someone's analytical skills are top notch.
What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. Halapio isn't Flowers where he's tied to a high draft pick. He's not making a ton of money so he could easily be cut or replaced.
The bottom line is that judging OL play is really tough, even for serious football fans. When Bill Belicheck admits that grading OL players has to be done by reviewing film and knowing what the assignments are, it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on.
That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert, even if that term seems to ruffle sensibilities.
I actually do have real experience breaking down film of OL play, its been a long time... But that is pretty much immaterial to this discussion, the mental mistakes I refer to are obvious if you look for them.
But go ahead, dismiss out of hand without even looking at the evidence I provided. And you call others trolls!
You really need me to repeat that some guy dissecting plays without having any idea of the assignments, the schemes or the audibles and yet tries to pass the assessment off as legitimate is what leads to the conclusion?
Then when called on it, you pull out the resume card - "Without knowing a damn thing about my background". Like I said above - if you aren't somebody with intimate knowledge of the playcalls and the assignment what in the fuck does your background have to do with it.
Hell, I could pull out a snarky comment about an analytical expert completely ignoring sample size, but that would just go down a dark path.
You really need me to repeat that some guy dissecting plays without having any idea of the assignments, the schemes or the audibles and yet tries to pass the assessment off as legitimate is what leads to the conclusion?
Then when called on it, you pull out the resume card - "Without knowing a damn thing about my background". Like I said above - if you aren't somebody with intimate knowledge of the playcalls and the assignment what in the fuck does your background have to do with it.
Hell, I could pull out a snarky comment about an analytical expert completely ignoring sample size, but that would just go down a dark path.
And yet you still make snarky comments without having watched the plays. I actually have some background in this, but its immaterial here, so I don't intend to get into it with you.
I have pointed out several things. Watch the plays and see if you see what I am pointing out.
1) There are plays where there are equal or more defenders to one side of the play, vs. more blockers than defenders on the other side. He turns to help the side with more blockers. You don't need much football knowledge to know that is wrong.
2) He doesn't look to both sides once the play is in flight. He picks a side and stays with it. A center without a man on him should be watching both sides to see where he is most needed. You don't need a whole lot of football knowledge to know that.
3) He is the center, I agree that it is very difficult to judge OL play without knowing the call... But!!! THe center is responsible for that call. If the call results in a clear mismatch of defenders vs. blockers, it is more than likely the wrong call. Again, not very hard to judge, and that is on the center.
None of these issues requires "knowing the call". All it requires is realizing that the wrong call or wrong decision was made, and that is on the center. All you need to do is watch the plays. Which clearly you lack the ability to do.
Yet they ignore the history of college o-linemen who worked at their craft and gotten better. And although it is substantially less than a majority, it is not an insignificant number.
For those that I have lost. think Remmers just as an example or if we don't want to play fair, think Brady.
And remember all that film that you are studying to justify your preconceived notion. By definition film is the past. It may be the best predictor of the future, but there is no absolute correlation.
I guess fuckstick has run its course at this point...
I am well aware that it is a new position for him and he is inexperienced. But as has been pointed out, he has been in the league long enough that you would hope it would be such a long learning curve. Perhaps the light bulb will go off in his head and he will become amazing. I have my doubts. Is that a huge stretch?
I am willing to try him as a backup until he learns. But, the man is 27 about to be 28 in a couple weeks. How long can you continue to experiment with him? Is that such a stretch?
I pointed out that he is a better run blocker at center than we have had in a while. But that is only part of what a center needs to do. He is good when physically engaged, I have granted that numerous times on this thread. To me, the physical part of a center's game is secondary to hi mental part. Rightly or wrongly I put far more weight on the mental part for a center. You can disagree with that, and we can agree to disagree. That's fine.
You guys make it sound like I went crazy hyberbolic here. I don't think anything I have said is outlandish, hyperbolic. Everything I have said I have provided backup evidence to support.
Calling me a "chucklehead", or other disparaging comment without having looked at the evidence is trolling plain and simple.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Even having access to the all-22 camera view, you'd also need to quite familiar with the way current day NFL defenses scheme and disguise scheme.
Yet they ignore the history of college o-linemen who worked at their craft and gotten better. And although it is substantially less than a majority, it is not an insignificant number.
For those that I have lost. think Remmers just as an example or if we don't want to play fair, think Brady.
And remember all that film that you are studying to justify your preconceived notion. By definition film is the past. It may be the best predictor of the future, but there is no absolute correlation.
Sure, he might get better. Which is why I am willing to let him learn as a backup for a while... Counting on him to start is foolish IMHO. Last year the team counted on him to start with absolutely no viable alternative. This year at least there is Pulley who is more ready to play and rates as a reasonable backup.
Even having access to the all-22 camera view, you'd also need to quite familiar with the way current day NFL defenses scheme and disguise scheme.
I siad this before. I am basing it on the matchups. For example having 3 rushers to one side, 2 to the other, and the side that had only 2 rushers already has 3 blockers (G, T, TE). The side that has the mismatch, 3 rushers on 2 blockers, should be the center's responsibility to balance out unless it is a designed screen or a rollout. Time after time, Halapio turns to help on the side where there are already enough blockers. If he reads it correctly, he should turn to help the side that is overmatched. Never leave a defender a free path to the QB, especially up the middle.
Yes, Flowers and Omameh were shit shows. But to the point, I cannot fully judge what they did without knowing the line call. For example Flowers bites on the fake blitz... Depending on the line call, that blitzer may or may not be his responsibility. Now his footwork was for shit, and he gave himself no chance to recover. But I can't tell if he should have been worried about the LB or not.
Omameh clearly believes his only responsibility is the man in front of him. Either he wasn't fooled by the fake blitz, or based on the call not his man. But he does a shitty job holding the block.
What is clear is that there is potentially more rushers than blockers to that side. Halapio has honor the possibility that the MLB might blitz, but after that, he has to be helping on the right, not the left. Based on the line call the, one of those rushers would have to be his man.
Barkley is going out in the pattern, (in fact I believe this play was designed to go to Barkley), so Barkley cannot be considered a potential blocker on this play.
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
That isn't a knock against credentials - it is the reality of some fan watching tape and coming to conclusions without knowing assignments, schemes or the playcalls.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Wouldn't be being a dickhead the schmuck that watches a few plays and then makes the assessment that a guy in not a NFL Caliber starter and lacks the mental acuity to play the position.
If I'm a dickhead for pointing out that smug arrogance, I'll gladly piss out of my skull.
Either George Orwell or Fox news is influencing the Corner Forum.
That isn't a knock against credentials - it is the reality of some fan watching tape and coming to conclusions without knowing assignments, schemes or the playcalls.
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Calling me a "chucklehead", or other disparaging comment without having looked at the evidence is trolling plain and simple.
If you look at the evidence and can contrive an alternative to Halapio making mental mistakes, then by all means, have at it and we can discuss. But that is not what you are doing. You are just being a dickhead.
Wouldn't be being a dickhead the schmuck that watches a few plays and then makes the assessment that a guy in not a NFL Caliber starter and lacks the mental acuity to play the position.
If I'm a dickhead for pointing out that smug arrogance, I'll gladly piss out of my skull.
Oh its being a dickhead, if the dickhead doesn't look at the supporting evidence and even attempt a rational debate, and falls back on name calling as a his first knee jerk reaction. Nothing else to call that except being a dickhead.
If you read the explanation I gave TTH for the Jag's pick 6 play. You will see a LB faking a blitz to the right. IF that LB fallowed through with that blitz, then there are 2 blockers for 3 rushers. Halapio turns his back on the right and is facing left. He can't have any clue whether that LB is blitzing or not because he is looking to help on the side that alread has 3 blockers on 2 defenders. With him that makes it 4 on 2, while the other side is actualy 2 on 2, but could have been 2 on 3. There is no other conclusion to make here other than Halapio went the wrong way. If you look, even a chucklehead like you can see it.
If that LB had actually blitzed there are 3 possibilities.
1) Its Flowers job to pick up the blitzer, and Halapio has to fall back deep get behind the right guard and push the DE behind Manning.
2) Its Omameh's job to get the LB, in which case Halapio has to take the right DT.
3) Its Halapio's job to pick up the blitz, in which case he again has to get behind the right guard to cut off the LB.
In no circumstance is it the correct choice to turn your back on that side so you cannot see what's happening and focus entirely on a side where you have a G, T, and TE blocking only 2 defenders.
The Dallas play in the OP. Same thing, he turns left, turning his back to the right and taking himself out of any chance of picking up the stunting DL coming right to him. Again, this can never be the correct thing to do.
The other plays I linked from the highlights are more difficult to see from the angle, but if you watch carefully, they are similar. He turns the wrong way. If the problem was the line call, well... That is his fault.
Either George Orwell or Fox news is influencing the Corner Forum.
I think those that like Halapio see his power and abilities as a physical blocker, which are granted far superior to any center that I can recall since Dusty Ziegler. Halapio is a very large and powerful guy. If he gets on a defender, its over for the defender. From that perspective I can understand why some people and coaches like what they see.
What I am pointing out is the mental aspect. Which some have argued that he was new to the position so it is to be expected. To which I say fine, until he has developed that part of his game, he is not a starter, because that part, IMHO, is more important than the physical part.
What does looking at the "supporting evidence" accomplish if neither you nor I know what to make of it? What rational debate do you expect to take place when you've taken it upon yourself to be the arbiter of who is an NFL-caliber player and who has the mental acuity to succeed?
The main problem is you don't see the folly of making these sweeping judgements. That's what I'm pointing out. It has nothing to do with the "film". It has to do with smug arrogance.
And I already said I'm a dickhead. But you likely aren't going to admit that you know jackshit.
Coach told him: keep an eye out for the rookie Hernandez!
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In comment 14465362 BigBlueShock said:
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That he was new to the center position, right? Apparently patience is not your strong suit. Let’s judge a guy playing a brand new position, an extremely difficult position, based on a few plays in all of two games...
FFS man
I do realize he is new to the position...
You do realize that maybe, just maybe its not a great idea to throw a guy with no experience out there at center, which is by far the most complex position on the line.
You want to experiment with him at center... fine, let him backup for a year or two. But to just throw him out there when he has no clue what he is doing, and especialy to leave yourself no other viable alternative, is just asinine.
And now we are a year later and he has all of 2 games under his belt. I doubt much has changed yet. And yet again we are counting on him to man the position. Personally I am not a big fan of Pulley either, but he is lightyears ahead of Halapio.
Shurmur was the starting center for Mich State. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he might know just a tiny bit more on what it takes to play center than you?
Are you serious? A NFL coach who played the position knows something? Nah. Dude on message board who watched stuff on Youtube knows way more. Look at how he is expertly breaking down plays he found online. All those years of playing backyard football with his brothers are paying off. Who needs years of coaching experience at college and the NFL. We got the internet so we are all experts now! He knows exactly what is happening on every play given his vast Madden NFL 2019 experience. The Giants should listen to him and let him pick the players and coach them. Trust me.
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In comment 14465495 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
Again - they both mentioned the guy by name in situations where there was really no reason to after the season ended.
Gettleman saying "don't forget about Pio" was said completely on his own accord. He wasn't even asked about him.
They're just doing this for shits and giggles even if they don't think he's any good? They have him slated to start just because they think he's a nice guy?
Maybe they actually like the player. But for some reason, you aren't willing to accept that - despite that being the most logical truth.
Who said anything about a budding star? Do we need to use hyperbole for effect here?
He's most likely a stop gap.
I'm not willing to just accept that he "sucks" because a few novice youtube watchers think they know how to analyze offensive line play better than the people getting paid to do it for the team.
Gettleman and Shurmur may well be wrong about the guy, but I'm pretty damn sure that they weren't going out of their way to talk about him as a way to send smoke signals out to the media or throw people off. What do they gain by lying about it?
But, despite that being entirely less believable than them maybe just liking the guy and thinking he can swing playing in the middle - that's the story we're going with.
Got it.