I saw this video posted recently about Eli.
And I think its a good analysis of of the Giants offense and Eli.
At about the 9:30 mark he highlights a play against the Cowboys.
The reason I focus on this play is because of the play of Halapio and what I keep saying about him, and why I don't think he is a starting center.
My contention is that he does a poor job of reading the defense, calling the right protections, and putting himself in the right position to affect a play. And although he only played in 2 games last year, plus some time in the preseason, what we see on this play is on many many plays in his short tenure.
On this play he misreads the stunt and turns the wrong way and can't pick up the DL. He was also fooled by the disguise even though the Cowboys shifted long enough before the snap for him to see what was happening. There are 3 rushers to the his right, and 2 to his left, but he turns left which leave a free path to the QB.
If I saw this only onse, it would be one thing. But if you watched the Jags and Cowboy games, they are littered with the same thing over and over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDpOjIa8xdc 
Coach told him: keep an eye out for the rookie Hernandez!
that's it, mystery solved...
...Center is the most important position on the LOS and JH is stop gap material at best. He will be replaced within a year.
Because if you did, and you looked at what I am pointing out to be looked at, you will see what I see. Instead of saying that I don't know what I am looking at, you will say, ok I see something went wrong. The decisions that the players are making regarding their responsibilities simply cannot be right. You cannot have 4 blocking 2 on one side, an d2 blocking 3 on the other leaving an open path to the QB. Or having 4 blocking two on one side and completely ignoring the twist coming right at you.
And it is obvious to anybody who cares to look that Halapio has taken himself out of any possible play on one side or the other. He turns his back on one side of the field. He cannot possibly see anything that happens to that side, including blitzes and/or stunts, where he is the only available blocker to help. It is clear that something went wrong.
We may debate what went wrong, but in the end when the same thing shows up on 1/3 maybe more of all passing plays, and its always Halapio who is out of position, and it is Halapio's responsibility to make sure that everybody on the line is in the right position, then defending him becomes less and less tenable. Any chucklehead or youtube novice can see that something is wrong with what Halapio is doing. I have no clue what he should have done, but what he did is indefensible.
BlueLou makes a decent point about helping the rookie. It is by far the best pro-Halapio explanation anybody has offered. If indeed, that is what happened, then Halapio took it to the extreme, completely abdicating any responsibility that he might have to the other side of the field. I would be surprised if the coaches wanted him to do that. But possible I guess.
As for why the coaches have good things to say. As I have said numerous times on this thread, he is a big powerful guy. When he locks onto a defender, its all over for that defender. Coaches see that and have wet dreams about how they might be able to use that ability. And they believe they can teach anybody (which is not a bad thing). So they have full confidence that they can teach this guy the nuances of the center position and get him ready in no time. So, of course they are going to speak highly of him. Gettleman as well. What do you expect? Do you really think these guys are going to come out and say the guy sucks and I haven't made any moves to get a better replacement... Seriously? Haven't you guys been listening to coach and GM speak long enough to know that you can't trust it. I mean they talked up Apple last offseason, and then dumped him mid season. Gettlemen talked up how Jonathon Stewart hadn't lost a step... Seriously? C'mon really? You're going to tell me that you really believe all the bullshit they shovel you.
And as for sharing an opinion and having a debate out it. Isn't that what this site is all about? Sure, we are all chuckleheads, when has that ever stopped arc, FMIC, or any one of us from sharing an opinion.
As for "sweeping statements" FMIC.... For christs sakes. In the Op I said "I don't THINK he is a starting center", and later I said that "I DOUBT he has the mental acumen", those are both qualified and clearly my OPINION. And the reason I doubt as has been stated on this thread is he will be 28 when the season starts. This is his 6th year, if he really had it, in all likelihood we would have already seen it. But I will leave room for the possibility. As I said, I am ok with the experiment, but while he is backing up, not starting. None of that is sweeping hyperbolic rhetoric. You cherry pick and take it out of context and put hyperbole around it so that you can pass some bullshit judgement about how great you are and how everybody else on this site sucks. And you still haven't even looked at the evidence... Fact is, you suck!
As for "sweeping statements" FMIC.... For christs sakes. In the Op I said "I don't THINK he is a starting center", and later I said that "I DOUBT he has the mental acumen", those are both qualified and clearly my OPINION. And the reason I doubt as has been stated on this thread is he will be 28 when the season starts. This is his 6th year, if he really had it, in all likelihood we would have already seen it. But I will leave room for the possibility. As I said, I am ok with the experiment, but while he is backing up, not starting. None of that is sweeping hyperbolic rhetoric. You cherry pick and take it out of context and put hyperbole around it so that you can pass some bullshit judgement about how great you are and how everybody else on this site sucks. And you still haven't even looked at the evidence... Fact is, you suck!
Here is my reply - you are full of crap. You are basing your entire premise on about 6 quarters. You know nothing. My proof - Shurmur played center. Shurmur knows centers. DG knows OL. If they wanted to replace him, they would have. They replaced damn near everyone on the team.
Can he end up being a failure - anyone can. You think Pulley is better - he was pushed around all year. You might consider giving him 8 games this year before condemning him to the fires of hell. Yeah he had a bad 1st game. But the second was noticeably better until he got hurt.
So that is it for me. Have a happy life.
Is he All Pro - absolutely not at this time.
.McL. : 7:37 pm : link : reply
at the plays?
Again - what does looking at the plays matter if you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. It really isn't more pointed or direct than that.
Stating it plainly - you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. You cannot possibly determine what is going on without knowing the playcall, the scheme or the assignments. 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit doesn't overcome that basic point.
So, for teams that alternate between zone and man blocking schemes, wouldn't the lack of verbal directions from the center mark or indicate, to the D, prior to snap, that it's going to be zone?
So, for teams that alternate between zone and man blocking schemes, wouldn't the lack of verbal directions from the center mark or indicate, to the D, prior to snap, that it's going to be zone?
Its mostly pass protection we are talking about here.
I think I see some mistakes in the blocking scheme in the running game at times, but I admittedly I don't really know. Overall, he did ok in the running game.
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In comment 14465736 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14465495 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14465446 arcarsenal said:
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No one is "making excuses" for him.
Just stating facts.
The sample size is tiny, it's a new position, and there's not enough to go by to make declarations like "he sucks"
The coach, who actually played the position for a good program likes him and so does the GM, who has found a few pretty good offensive linemen over the years.
I guess it's "hilarious" that I'd just like to see him play in more than a game and a half with better guard play on each side of him, thinking that perhaps he could become adequate for the time being until we find an upgrade.
Oh well.
This isn’t facts, it’s you hoping against hope he’s worth a shit.
He’s 27, not 22. He’s looked like shit in limited action. He’s a fringe roster guy getting an opportunity because the Giants don’t have better options.
No, it actually is a fact that the sample size of him playing OC is small. It's "hope" when I point out limited playing time?
Here's what I know..
I heard both the coach and the GM after the final game of the year mention him by name as a guy they were looking forward to getting back this year.
Once again, Gettleman said "don't forget about Pio" a few months later.
They like the guy. You'll have to ask them why. But both of them know quite a bit more than I do about offensive line play - and, I'd imagine that's the case for most of the people here offering up their "analysis"
If Halapio struggles, they'll go with Pulley.
And barring some sort of breakout or unforeseen stretch of outstanding play from either guy, they'll look to upgrade through the draft or the market.
It has been evident for a while that the OL will be closer to a "finished product" in 2020. It's close, but it's not there yet.
We have guys here who are already certain Halapio can't play center based on about 5 quarters of amateur evaluation.
I'm not the type of fan who believes we need to appeal to authority on everything - coaches and GM's make their share of bad calls and mistakes - but in a case like this, they've seen a lot more of the guy than I have.
If they didn't think he could play or were convinced he sucked, he wouldn't be here. You don't just plug in a guy who you think sucks because you have no other options. They clearly think he can handle it.
You keep referencing Gettleman and the coaches. That’s their opinion about him as a player, an opinion they’re conveying to the media. We really don’t know what they think about him behind closed doors — and even if the comment is to be taken at face value they can be wrong.
Maybe they like his work ethic or locker room presence. Maybe he’s just the best available under the circumstances and the team wanted to focus on improving other areas. We don’t know, and touting some media comments as support is foolish.
The facts are this guy is 27 years old and has been bounced around the league. Does that scream budding star or diamond in the rough to you?
Again - they both mentioned the guy by name in situations where there was really no reason to after the season ended.
Gettleman saying "don't forget about Pio" was said completely on his own accord. He wasn't even asked about him.
They're just doing this for shits and giggles even if they don't think he's any good? They have him slated to start just because they think he's a nice guy?
Maybe they actually like the player. But for some reason, you aren't willing to accept that - despite that being the most logical truth.
Who said anything about a budding star? Do we need to use hyperbole for effect here?
He's most likely a stop gap.
I'm not willing to just accept that he "sucks" because a few novice youtube watchers think they know how to analyze offensive line play better than the people getting paid to do it for the team.
Gettleman and Shurmur may well be wrong about the guy, but I'm pretty damn sure that they weren't going out of their way to talk about him as a way to send smoke signals out to the media or throw people off. What do they gain by lying about it?
But, despite that being entirely less believable than them maybe just liking the guy and thinking he can swing playing in the middle - that's the story we're going with.
Got it.
Gettleman liked Omameh enough to overpay for a shit guard. It happens.
There have been countless examples over the years where the Giants staff and/or FO hyped up a guy and he amounts to nothing. Again, it happens. This “appealing to authority” bullshit is the most tiresome argument on this site.
I’m not suggesting it’s an intentional or malicious, this happens in all forms of business environments. Someone gets liked or vouched for or exhibits some qualities at the right place/time and gets backed by the decision makers despite not having the performance to justify it. This is people, not robots. They make mistakes and have their own biases and blind spots.
The reality is there’s no objective evidence or proof to justify having confidence in Halapio as the starting center of the New York Giants in 2019. None. He has no track record of success. He’s a 27 year old journeyman at best, fringe roster guy trying to make the most of his last shot at worst. This is the reality. Anyone who’s already penciling him in as an average starter or solid starter is a donk blinded by their fandom.
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Do you know how I know you guys didn't even spend 1 minute to look
.McL. : 7:37 pm : link : reply
at the plays?
Again - what does looking at the plays matter if you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. It really isn't more pointed or direct than that.
Stating it plainly - you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. You cannot possibly determine what is going on without knowing the playcall, the scheme or the assignments. 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit doesn't overcome that basic point.
Again you are a dense dickhead... Finish the dam quote and don't take it out of context...
So you are just too arrogant to even look. Too cock sure of your righteousness. Too willing to pass judgement about something you know absolutely nothing about not because it is unknowable, but because you refuse to look or learn.
You call me dense and stupid... Take a look in the mirror, you purposely keep yourself dense and stupid.
Again - two fools looking at something they don't know shit about proves what exactly??
Too arrogant to look? I'm openly admitting that I cannot assess what is going on without knowing the scheme, the assignments or the playcall.
You? Not only can you make an assessment, but you can say who is and who isn't a NFL caliber player and who has the mental acuity to play the position.
Are you sure you even know what the fuck arrogant means?? At this point, you are carrying on like a smug clueless assbag.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
Are you saying Halapio is actually good? Do you even have a position? Or did you just blast the thread bc OP isn’t the fucking offensive coordinator of the Giants?
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What I am saying is that if you look at the video and watch Halapio and look for what I wrote, ANYBODY on this board can see a mistake was made. ANYBODY! That it takes no special insight or knowledge that there was a mistake. I am NOT claiming special insight or knowledge.
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this discussion.
Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called.
That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure.
What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
Are you saying Halapio is actually good? Do you even have a position? Or did you just blast the thread bc OP isn’t the fucking offensive coordinator of the Giants?
That is exactly what he he is doing, because he loves being the dickhead.
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
There you go again adding hyperbole where there was none.
I said I THINK he is not a STARTING center. And that I DOUBT that he will become one this late in his career.
I left open the possibility that he could become one! I endorsed the experiment, but I believe everybody is better served by keeping him as a backup until he is more ready.
I also BOLDLY claimed no special insight or understanding. But, that what can be easily seen by anybody who cares to look, cannot possibly be right.
Those are the things I have said. Absolutely none of that is hyperbole.
Tell me FMiC, that you have never watched a game and seen something where it was obvious that a player screwed up. You have never seen any play ever, where you could pinpoint that a specific player screwed up. If that is the case, then we know all we ever need to know about you.
WillVab is right, you have added absolutely nothing to this conversation, except to launch ad-hominem attacks on me.
John in CO. I never wrote the guy off. For the umpteenth time, I endorse the experiment, I'm just not convinced that it's a good idea to have him do it as the starting center. Not yet anyway.
The whole point of this thread was that I wanted to show people who are interested the downside of his game right now. The coaches talk him up, but coaches also talked up the likes of Jonas Seawright, Mitch Petrus and Tam Hopkins... I'm not buying it.
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
The OP’s conclusion is he doesn’t believe Halapio is a starting caliber center. That’s the point. Do you agree or disagree? Why? Or did you just come here to shit on the methodology?
Did you really feel the masses on BBI were going to be "hoodwinked" by this?
lord, you are a tool sometimes...
Sometimes????????????? It's not "sometimes." It's a lot. He's a troll. He lies and/or over-exaggerates points just as he is doing now.
I had said on a thread a while back that -- imo Darnold is lock that he's going to "good." In his reply to me to paraphrase- first he addressed my post that I can't know if he is going to be "good" then in the same post he later said in a para or so later to paraphrase that no one could possibly know that Darnold will be "great."
*I never said "great." I replied to him and told him my post did not say "great" and he was mis-representing my post. YOU KNOW WHAT THE SNEAKY BASTARD DID?
He replied to me by copying his 1st statement that he didn't say "great" he said "Good." It wouldn't matter that much but when I tell the troll when he does that shit it "invites" others to mis-represent the post. Which ofc happened that the poster "DJM" later replied to me that I was wrong and Fatman was right that no one could predict yet that Darnold could be "transcendent."
Fatman does this shit all the time. It's no surprise FatHead is at it again. Ohh- I just made a mis-spelling. Fatman will be all over that one.
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What fucking value are you adding to the discussion?
Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong?
You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position.
When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise.
I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on.
On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?
What's more is let me tell you the Value I brought to this thread. I made the effort to watch his play, I made the effort to link 4 plays that I could find. All of them showing something that people may not have noticed before. If you look specifically at what I am describing, anybody can see it as well. Different people notice different things. And while not claiming any special or inside knowledge, I notice center play. I noticed these issues when I saw the games live. I shared with the board something I noticed back last year, and was reminded of it when I saw the linked video.
If you don't care to notice it, no problem, but there is no need to be hurling insults at me.
I think there are more people on this board that would find it interesting to see something they may not have noticed, than read the rants of a self righteous, know nothing, dickheads.
That is the value that I brought.
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In comment 14465568 English Alaister said:
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a couple of months ago and watched every play of the Jags game on the all-22 and I'd say this
- There is some good and bad on that tape for sure but actually only about 2 plays where I think I'd really want to get on Halapio for something.
- Flowers and Omameh are utterly brutal. You can see the gameplan is to try and let the vets on the right side get by whilst Pio helps the rookie but actually the rookie is a picture of stability.
- I really don't see the same volume of bad things you do. Should also be noted Pio flashes some really nice power for a center. If he can get a run in the team and the injury doesn't linger I think he can be an O'Hara type find.
If Halapio engages a man, he is a powerful guy. I commented earlier on his run blocking in particular. I am not referring to his physical play. But watch more carefully and look for situations where we had more defenders on one side, and guys blocking air on the other side, particularly on passing plays. Also watch his head on passing plays. He picks one side to help and stays with it. He never turns his head and checks the other side. A Center's head should be on a swivel. There were also some blown up running plays, where there were more defenders playside than blockers, and there are enough players that a different blocking scheme would have been a better call. These are the issues I see. Its more about reading the defense pre and post snap.
In the Jags game a lot of the time Pio had a double team. The scheme seemed to be pre-ordained. If that's the case and he did his job (as the coaching staff have stated he did) then you can't get on him too much.
I'm also not clear on how much Eli calls the audibles in the blocking scheme vs Pio.
EA, my apologies for missing your comments, I was distracted by a dickhead.
Regarding Manning making the line calls. I know that under Coughlin that he made line calls at the very least some of the time. I believe that was specifically taken away from him by this coaching staff. Something I remember reading in preseason and being surprised about considering the inexperience at center.
With regards to double teams. I think what you are saying holds more for running plays than passing plays. BlueLou pointed out that maybe the coaches told him to watch the rookie. While that is almost certainly true, I find it hard to believe that they wanted him to completely abandon other center responsibilities... I would think it would be more of a look that way first, then look the other. If the coaching staff told him to turn his back on the right side to help the rookie, then, that would be on the coaching staff... That's not a good look either, and one I would prefer not to believe.