Thoughts on yesterday's trade? Any issues dealing away #1s again, albeit lottery protected? Who are the two ideal free agents you would like to add/retain and why? How would they fit well with the current roster?
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
RE: RE: Personally, I would prefer retaining Russell Â
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
The Celtics have a strong culture...
... that didn't contain crazy Kyrie and his hard-headed craziness.
There was no flaw to be found in the culture of the Boston Celtics before crazy Kyrie joined the equation... and any negative to be found at the present can be more-or-less be traced directly back to crazy Kyrie.
I think the question we must consider is whether you’d rather having Russell and Irving (Blazers East) or Irving and Harris? I’d prefer to attempt the former and swing a deal for a stretch four.
Either way, you’re still a very young team (youngest playoff team in the nba last year, third youngest in the entire NBA) with lots of upside. The Nets have gotten this far through steady progression. If that core can continue to progress, and no reason they shouldn’t based on their age, they will be a real force even without Kawhi or KD.
I think the question we must consider is whether you’d rather having Russell and Irving (Blazers East) or Irving and Harris? I’d prefer to attempt the former and swing a deal for a stretch four.
Either way, you’re still a very young team (youngest playoff team in the nba last year, third youngest in the entire NBA) with lots of upside. The Nets have gotten this far through steady progression. If that core can continue to progress, and no reason they shouldn’t based on their age, they will be a real force even without Kawhi or KD.
blazers east with a trade for a 3 and D 4 man would be a very interesting team
Russell was much maligned. Viewed as a bad guy and traded for it. Came to the Nets and has been a model citizen.
Culture should be stronger than one guy. We’ll find out if the Nets culture is stronger than Kyrie.
As an aside, I think if you’re going to go with the twitter Nickname approach you should just call him Flat Earth Kyrie. I realize you lose the alliterative thrust, but it makes him seem crazy AND dumb at the same time.
I actually thought the flat earth stuff was kinda cute... Â
However, that would take minutes from Levert, which I don't want. They need to address size to help Allen and ideally add a stretch 4. Can't have a team full of 1s, 2s and 3s. Or can they?
that seems like a very non-Marks move. The guy is a 23 year old all star, his max is lower than Irving's by a healthy margin (if he even needs a full max), and he is the poster child of both the development + culture Marks has tried to build over 3 years. I don't think he is Isaiah Thomas leaving the Celtics. I've read that there's a way he could be s&t'd to a 3rd team as part of a deal for AD, I could see something like that and then Irving would make a lot of sense.
So my first impression of yesterday's move is that it's not about Irving - who they could have afforded without that move (and without denouncing DLo). The only guy they couldn't afford prior to that trade was KD at the 35% max level. So my read at the moment is more that they are confident they can get at least 1 of the top 3 frontcourt players (KD, KL, AD). With Irving (Blazers east) or Harris (pre-KD GS east) also possibilities. But if Marks is angling for "top guys" as Woj reported, to me those first 3 are the ones who will make this roster competitors almost right away whereas Irving wouldn't necessarily.
I also expect to see more happen in 2 weeks at the draft, and would not be surprised to see Dinwiddie traded for a lotto pick to save even more $, in fact I sort of expect that now. Especially if they liked Musa and feel like he can handle a similar role.
a very sad day when Spencer gets traded. Though his constant whining at referees can veer towards the obnoxious, he’s probably my favorite player not named LeVert. He’s a big part of the culture here. I think his persona might go in a very different direction if he was with another organization.
Either way, the Nets will have a compelling three All-Star caliber set with either Russell/LeVert/Irving or Irving/LeVert/Durant.
If they come away empty handed after this trade, it will be a very tough pill to swallow. I’m assuming Marks is too smart not to have some assurance.
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
Relax, neither one is a lottery pick, and Taurean Prince is a movable asset. If they strike out in FA, then we can criticize the trade, but nobody will if they can sign 2 max guys. Not everything is about the Knicks.
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
It's not a stretch to think he gave up 1 first round for Prince (who was the 12th pick in '16 and a solid player) and 1 first to dump Crabbe. I agree on both accounts he paid towards the higher end range of dump prices, but neither it's not a crazy overpay - if they are using the $ for something. If they strike out it's not going to be a good move in hindsight.
It’s two separate trades. 17th pick to move Crabbe/cap space. Lotto protected future first for Prince.
That’s actually a good trade. Prince is a very good three point shooter (39%) and on a rookie deal.
Marks will only look bad if the first part of the trade turns into something. But by giving the 17th pick up, all he really did was give up one type of lotto ticket (non-lotto draft pick) for another (FA dreams).
All assumes Marks didn’t get assurance from an agent. Which would be pretty surprising in the modern NBA.
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
Relax, neither one is a lottery pick, and Taurean Prince is a movable asset. If they strike out in FA, then we can criticize the trade, but nobody will if they can sign 2 max guys. Not everything is about the Knicks.
Sorry but you're way off. Marks took on Nicholson's contract to get a 1st that turned into Jarret Allen. Nicholson is then flipped for Crabbe who obviously didn't work out. Crabbe, a late 1st, and a protected 1st is then traded for Taurean Prince (who not only has value but is also good friends with KD btw) which opens them 2 max slots. And the Nets still have 2 late 1st rounders this draft. On top of that, Marks has been able to keep a young core together that has been excellent. Nope, he wouldn't be ahywhere near getting killed.
The Nets also traded Bogdanovic in the Nicholson deal Â
who is a pretty darn good player. Prince has some value but he's really not as good as the stats would suggest and only has a year left on his rookie deal. He's a good shooter and he's got good size but that's about it as far as the positives go. He turns the ball over a whole lot, he's a terrible rebounder for a guy his size and he leaves a lot to be desired on defense, not to mention he's got a reputation of being a selfish player. There's certainly room for growth there though so I wouldn't be surprised if the Nets made a valuable player out of him yet and at least he has one very important skill that'll warrant playing time.
Trading the 17th pick and a future protected 1st is a steep price to unload a 1 year 18 mill deal. Prince is okay but doesn’t move the needle. Maybe he knows who he’s signing and needs this cap space and this was his only choose. But to me it seems like an overpay.
bad trade by the Nets. As someone on twitter noted, it's sort of like trading a haul for a franchise QB in the NFL draft. If it works out (in the Nets case because they make a big signing or two with the space) then it's a great deal, if they come up empty handed or wind up signing non-max guys to max deals then it's a bad trade.
DeMarcus Cousins? I saw it mentioned online. Nothing rumored, just someone bouncing off ideas. I know he's a headcase, but do you think his game would fit well in Brooklyn? He is an offensive bigman. Could he play alongside Allen?
RE: RE: Anthony Davis news from a New Orleans source... Â
DeMarcus Cousins? I saw it mentioned online. Nothing rumored, just someone bouncing off ideas. I know he's a headcase, but do you think his game would fit well in Brooklyn? He is an offensive bigman. Could he play alongside Allen?
dont love that- he would need to lose about 30 pounds and get an attitude check. and he and allen cant play together anyway. Pass
would take a stab at randle/morris/harris if things dont work out on other big names
also get kurucs in the gym all summer and he could take a big leap in 2 yrs
if they go with a presumably nonmax option i'd prefer Horford > boogie Â
he's got the atkinson connection and would go a very long way to solidifying the defense + rebounding. Plus he can stretch the floor. Not sure what the deal is with Boston, but if he hits the market he'd be a very interesting piece for the Nets if they end up having room left after whatever plan A is.
Re: the Crabbe deal, you absolutely have to factor in Nicholson as well. Dumping Nicholson's $18m would have cost a first round pick just as taking on Nicholson got them Jarrett Allen. Yes they gave up Bogs too, but he wasn't as good as he is now and the Wiz let him walk without even offering him a contract. Nicholson + the pick was the main part of that trade for both teams. So when the Nets got Crabbe, they saved a first round pick they would have needed to dump that $18m, and have now used a first round pick to dump Crabbe's $18m.
RE: RE: RE: Personally, I would prefer retaining Russell Â
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
The Celtics have a strong culture...
... that didn't contain crazy Kyrie and his hard-headed craziness.
In light of current events. Which of these realistic options is more appealing:
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
regardless of whom the pg is--- they need to find a stretch 4.
if you can get a stretch 4 that is quite good in a trade then the blazers east works for me.
In light of current events. Which of these realistic options is more appealing:
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
Curious where Nets fans are at.
Prefer something in the B-range, I could live with A, I don't think C is a good idea at all. An Irving-D-Lo backcourt would be brutally bad defensively. I think Reddick is a very real possibility, he already lives in Brooklyn. I'm just not sure he's a great fit. I have a strong suspicion that we will end up with Irving-Butler, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
In light of current events. Which of these realistic options is more appealing:
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
Curious where Nets fans are at.
Prefer something in the B-range, I could live with A, I don't think C is a good idea at all. An Irving-D-Lo backcourt would be brutally bad defensively. I think Reddick is a very real possibility, he already lives in Brooklyn. I'm just not sure he's a great fit. I have a strong suspicion that we will end up with Irving-Butler, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
either PG paired with butler or harris would be interesting. If you can get harris for less... and leave some flex--- would be cool
harris/dlo would be the "steady as she goes" development Atlanta under bud model.
either PG paired with butler or harris would be interesting. If you can get harris for less... and leave some flex--- would be cool
harris/dlo would be the "steady as she goes" development Atlanta under bud model.
Yeah, I like Harris, and I think he's oddly underrated. He'd be a good fit at the stretch 4. My concern is mainly with Butler. Very good player, but needs the ball in his hands, and doesn't have the best locker room reputation.
you only get a shot at legitimate franchise players like him once in a blue moon. Is it risky? Yes. But whatever the risk is of him not getting all the way back, it's still lower than the odds of winning a championship like the Pistons (or with a more balanced approach like the Hawks). At age 34 Kobe came back from tearing his achillies in about 8 months. He was diminished but he was also further past his prime pre-injury. Hopefully there can be some risk protections (opt outs) built into the contract. Then you keep the rest of squad together, sign a starting 4 to a 1 year deal (or trade for an expiring), and continue developing forward.
Obviously if you can get Leonard, that's a no-brainer, but that was true prior to yesterday.
I have no issue with them deciding to go for Kyrie too, or Tobias Harris, or both, just don't let DLo walk for nothing. Adding Kyrie would probably also mean they have to trade Dinwiddie, and if they could add a top 10 pick like the Suns pick and 1 of the top forwards in the draft, you've improved now and in the future.
Just moved to Roc Nation. A ton of Nets ties there, basketball Twitter seems convinced this is possibly the most solid evidence yet that Kyrie is coming to Brooklyn.
Question will be whether it’s with KD, Dlo or Tobias.
Lot of Kyrie chatter to the point that it sounds like a sure thing.
Then the question is, can they land the big fish too.
I think when talking about what 2 guys, given the hype and Woj commenting on it, Kyrie has to be 1 of them.
Clearly the best situation is him with Kawhi or Durant.
the only way the kyrie/dlo fits is if you can do that with trading for a very good 3 and D 4 man.
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
Quote:
over signing Irving.
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
The Celtics have a strong culture...
... that didn't contain crazy Kyrie and his hard-headed craziness.
Meh.
There was no flaw to be found in the culture of the Boston Celtics before crazy Kyrie joined the equation... and any negative to be found at the present can be more-or-less be traced directly back to crazy Kyrie.
I think the question we must consider is whether you’d rather having Russell and Irving (Blazers East) or Irving and Harris? I’d prefer to attempt the former and swing a deal for a stretch four.
Either way, you’re still a very young team (youngest playoff team in the nba last year, third youngest in the entire NBA) with lots of upside. The Nets have gotten this far through steady progression. If that core can continue to progress, and no reason they shouldn’t based on their age, they will be a real force even without Kawhi or KD.
I think the question we must consider is whether you’d rather having Russell and Irving (Blazers East) or Irving and Harris? I’d prefer to attempt the former and swing a deal for a stretch four.
Either way, you’re still a very young team (youngest playoff team in the nba last year, third youngest in the entire NBA) with lots of upside. The Nets have gotten this far through steady progression. If that core can continue to progress, and no reason they shouldn’t based on their age, they will be a real force even without Kawhi or KD.
blazers east with a trade for a 3 and D 4 man would be a very interesting team
Culture should be stronger than one guy. We’ll find out if the Nets culture is stronger than Kyrie.
As an aside, I think if you’re going to go with the twitter Nickname approach you should just call him Flat Earth Kyrie. I realize you lose the alliterative thrust, but it makes him seem crazy AND dumb at the same time.
Turns out... Kyrie's just crazy... and not in any kind of cute way... more like Tom Cruise crazy, with additional bi-polar tendencies.
So my first impression of yesterday's move is that it's not about Irving - who they could have afforded without that move (and without denouncing DLo). The only guy they couldn't afford prior to that trade was KD at the 35% max level. So my read at the moment is more that they are confident they can get at least 1 of the top 3 frontcourt players (KD, KL, AD). With Irving (Blazers east) or Harris (pre-KD GS east) also possibilities. But if Marks is angling for "top guys" as Woj reported, to me those first 3 are the ones who will make this roster competitors almost right away whereas Irving wouldn't necessarily.
I also expect to see more happen in 2 weeks at the draft, and would not be surprised to see Dinwiddie traded for a lotto pick to save even more $, in fact I sort of expect that now. Especially if they liked Musa and feel like he can handle a similar role.
Either way, the Nets will have a compelling three All-Star caliber set with either Russell/LeVert/Irving or Irving/LeVert/Durant.
If they come away empty handed after this trade, it will be a very tough pill to swallow. I’m assuming Marks is too smart not to have some assurance.
Relax, neither one is a lottery pick, and Taurean Prince is a movable asset. If they strike out in FA, then we can criticize the trade, but nobody will if they can sign 2 max guys. Not everything is about the Knicks.
It's not a stretch to think he gave up 1 first round for Prince (who was the 12th pick in '16 and a solid player) and 1 first to dump Crabbe. I agree on both accounts he paid towards the higher end range of dump prices, but neither it's not a crazy overpay - if they are using the $ for something. If they strike out it's not going to be a good move in hindsight.
It’s two separate trades. 17th pick to move Crabbe/cap space. Lotto protected future first for Prince.
That’s actually a good trade. Prince is a very good three point shooter (39%) and on a rookie deal.
Marks will only look bad if the first part of the trade turns into something. But by giving the 17th pick up, all he really did was give up one type of lotto ticket (non-lotto draft pick) for another (FA dreams).
All assumes Marks didn’t get assurance from an agent. Which would be pretty surprising in the modern NBA.
In comment 14465782 Section331 said:
Quote:
Has done a good job, but man does the media love him. He just gave up 2 first round picks to dump one year of a bad contract he brought in. If the Knicks did this move they would be getting killed.
Relax, neither one is a lottery pick, and Taurean Prince is a movable asset. If they strike out in FA, then we can criticize the trade, but nobody will if they can sign 2 max guys. Not everything is about the Knicks.
Sorry but you're way off. Marks took on Nicholson's contract to get a 1st that turned into Jarret Allen. Nicholson is then flipped for Crabbe who obviously didn't work out. Crabbe, a late 1st, and a protected 1st is then traded for Taurean Prince (who not only has value but is also good friends with KD btw) which opens them 2 max slots. And the Nets still have 2 late 1st rounders this draft. On top of that, Marks has been able to keep a young core together that has been excellent. Nope, he wouldn't be ahywhere near getting killed.
The only additional thought I’d add is that first round picks remain overrated. They’re lottery tickets and actually don’t have much value.
Only legitimacy added to this is its coming from Woj.
Pelicans covet Jayson Tatum - ( New Window )
has been the obvious best option imo the whole time-- in terms of best piece available
Quote:
... for what it's worth. Pelicans covet Jayson Tatum - ( New Window )
has been the obvious best option imo the whole time-- in terms of best piece available
I don't disagree with you.
There has been some disagreement on this point, though... with a fair amount of folks saying some combination of the following:
1.) Claiming the shine is off Tatum (or similar rhetoric)
2.) Talking up Brandon Ingram
3.) Talking up R.J. Barrett
dont love that- he would need to lose about 30 pounds and get an attitude check. and he and allen cant play together anyway. Pass
would take a stab at randle/morris/harris if things dont work out on other big names
also get kurucs in the gym all summer and he could take a big leap in 2 yrs
Re: the Crabbe deal, you absolutely have to factor in Nicholson as well. Dumping Nicholson's $18m would have cost a first round pick just as taking on Nicholson got them Jarrett Allen. Yes they gave up Bogs too, but he wasn't as good as he is now and the Wiz let him walk without even offering him a contract. Nicholson + the pick was the main part of that trade for both teams. So when the Nets got Crabbe, they saved a first round pick they would have needed to dump that $18m, and have now used a first round pick to dump Crabbe's $18m.
Quote:
In comment 14465639 davek3698 said:
Quote:
over signing Irving.
i feel like thats the emotional fan view though- i loved what russell did... but at the end of the day... if you are running a business, Irving is the better player- they are both young still- and if you believe in the culture of the team- then his attitude would be fine.
and the cost is expensive on both.
The Celtics have a strong culture...
... that didn't contain crazy Kyrie and his hard-headed craziness.
Kylie is a hard pass, he quit on the Celtics!
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
Curious where Nets fans are at.
if you can get a stretch 4 that is quite good in a trade then the blazers east works for me.
if you cant then im not sure yet
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
Curious where Nets fans are at.
Prefer something in the B-range, I could live with A, I don't think C is a good idea at all. An Irving-D-Lo backcourt would be brutally bad defensively. I think Reddick is a very real possibility, he already lives in Brooklyn. I'm just not sure he's a great fit. I have a strong suspicion that we will end up with Irving-Butler, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Quote:
In light of current events. Which of these realistic options is more appealing:
A) run it back, continue the elite player development, add key pieces like a stretch 4, another defense minded big - (realistic ceiling-floor: 4 - 8 seed);
B) all-in, Irving and Harris, let Dlo walk or S&T to Minnesota/Phoenix, find a way to sign JJ Reddick - (realistic ceiling-floor: 2 - 6 seed)
C) sign Irving, sign Russell, use Dinwiddie to acquire more assets (I have no idea what to make of this team. Blazers East?)
Curious where Nets fans are at.
Prefer something in the B-range, I could live with A, I don't think C is a good idea at all. An Irving-D-Lo backcourt would be brutally bad defensively. I think Reddick is a very real possibility, he already lives in Brooklyn. I'm just not sure he's a great fit. I have a strong suspicion that we will end up with Irving-Butler, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
either PG paired with butler or harris would be interesting. If you can get harris for less... and leave some flex--- would be cool
harris/dlo would be the "steady as she goes" development Atlanta under bud model.
either PG paired with butler or harris would be interesting. If you can get harris for less... and leave some flex--- would be cool
harris/dlo would be the "steady as she goes" development Atlanta under bud model.
Yeah, I like Harris, and I think he's oddly underrated. He'd be a good fit at the stretch 4. My concern is mainly with Butler. Very good player, but needs the ball in his hands, and doesn't have the best locker room reputation.
Obviously if you can get Leonard, that's a no-brainer, but that was true prior to yesterday.
I have no issue with them deciding to go for Kyrie too, or Tobias Harris, or both, just don't let DLo walk for nothing. Adding Kyrie would probably also mean they have to trade Dinwiddie, and if they could add a top 10 pick like the Suns pick and 1 of the top forwards in the draft, you've improved now and in the future.
Question will be whether it’s with KD, Dlo or Tobias.