Tonight's lineup vs Colorado
2B Jeff McNeil
1B Pete Alonso
RF Michael Conforto
LF Dominic Smith
C Wilson Ramos
3B Todd Frazier
SS Amed Rosario
CF Juan Lagares
RHP Jacob deGrom
The Rockies are coming in hot but McNeil is back and hitting, Dom and Alonso are in the same lineup, and the Cy Young winner is going. Could be worse! Love the lineup tonight! Lets take this series before the Subway series next week! LGM!
At this point in his career, it may take a fully healthy Cano to surpass Frazier.
If Cano and Nimmo come back they'll need to play a hell of a lot better than they did before they went on the DL. Two of them worth a combined 0.1 WAR in over 340 plate appearances. Woof.
No sir, but don't think they've ruled it out if no improvement this weekend.
Nope. Not yet. I think he wants the Yankees. Well see!
He's obv not a long term solution, but it's time he got some credit. .330+ in his last 19-20 games. He seems the best option atm, at least until he cools off and/or they're officially sellers to focus on development of younger guys
If Cano and Nimmo come back they'll need to play a hell of a lot better than they did before they went on the DL. Two of them worth a combined 0.1 WAR in over 340 plate appearances. Woof.
To me the CF upgrade is massive regardless. Nimmo at his worst is at a wRC+ of 90 and his OBP was over .400 the last two weeks before he got ILd (even still its .344 for the year). Lagares is at a wRC+ Of 50 and Gomez is at 55. They are seriously black holes right now. The Frazier/Cano/Smith battle is more interesting IMO. Somebody will be the odd man out. When Lowrie is back two of them will.
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@MetsMerized
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New Post: Report: Mets Considering Attempt to Void Contract of Yoenis Cespedes https://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=293092 #Mets #LGM
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Frazier vs Hecchavarria? Or JD? Probably a wash now that Todd is hitting s little
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with DeGrom against the Rockies at home. Hopefully Ramos and DeGrom are on the same page. We need Ramos bat in the lineup as often as possible. Let's hope Smith can stay hot and put management in a hard spot when some of the underperforming regulars come back.
If Cano and Nimmo come back they'll need to play a hell of a lot better than they did before they went on the DL. Two of them worth a combined 0.1 WAR in over 340 plate appearances. Woof.
To me the CF upgrade is massive regardless. Nimmo at his worst is at a wRC+ of 90 and his OBP was over .400 the last two weeks before he got ILd (even still its .344 for the year). Lagares is at a wRC+ Of 50 and Gomez is at 55. They are seriously black holes right now. The Frazier/Cano/Smith battle is more interesting IMO. Somebody will be the odd man out. When Lowrie is back two of them will.
Fair enough. Even "shitty" Nimmo plays respectable defense CF and gets on base. So he's an upgrade over the Lag/Gomez platoon.
If Nimmo can get his contact/power issues straightened out during his rehab, he'll provide an even bigger boost.
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@MetsMerized
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New Post: Report: Mets Considering Attempt to Void Contract of Yoenis Cespedes https://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=293092 #Mets #LGM
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They must have more info about this injury. It's obvious the story Cespedes gave is bullshit.
I can end that argument. No, it won't.
The fact they didn't match seriously pursue Kimbrel tells you all you need to know.
Please happen.
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unfortunate, unlucky, and probably some stupid mixed in...the whole "fell in a hole" story was ridiculous. I don't have confidence in much with this mets ownership, but if there's a way to save the $ they will probably find it. Then we can spend the next 2 years arguing about whether it will even get re-invested in the team.
I can end that argument. No, it won't.
The fact they didn't match seriously pursue Kimbrel tells you all you need to know.
Oh I completely agree it won't. But it hasn't been before and that doesn't stop us arguing about it!
Diaz is probably going to make more than $30m over the 3 arb years after this one. But yeah, this season is great. We're doing such a good job taking advantage of Diaz' last cheap year. Was totally worth trading Kelenic.
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BVW has been pretty transparent. He DID talk to Kimbrel and supposedly he wasn't willing to share duties. At least that was the story at one point not that long ago. He also signed a pretty hefty deal for an older declining reliever. I think Kimbrel will still be good but I doubt he's ever prime Kimbrel again. If people think Kimbrel is still worth almost 45 million for 3 years, they must love Diaz for 500K right now.
Diaz is probably going to make more than $30m over the 3 arb years after this one. But yeah, this season is great. We're doing such a good job taking advantage of Diaz' last cheap year. Was totally worth trading Kelenic.
I doubt it. He'll be lucky to break 10-13 million in his last year. He won't be making elite SP arbitration money.
My point is you can't have it both ways... You cant say it's not worth trading a top prospect for a cost controlled closer for 4 years and then turn around and say a closer in his 30s with a 3.33 FIP last year and a horrid postseason is worth 15 million AAV.
It just makes the whole team better.
If he "loses" the closer job, you have Diaz and Familia, all with closing capability.
It just makes the whole team better.
If he "loses" the closer job, you have Diaz and Familia, all with closing capability.
I mean that's a possibility but are you guaranteeing him the closer role for all three years? Boston made almost no effort to bring him back. 30 teams in baseball wasn't interested in him at all if it meant parting with a second round pick and some pool money. The Cubs guaranteed him the closing job day 1. Strop and Cescek suck balls and will immediately move into setup roles without an drama whatsoever.
Must be that warmer weather! ;)
My point is you can't have it both ways... You cant say it's not worth trading a top prospect for a cost controlled closer for 4 years and then turn around and say a closer in his 30s with a 3.33 FIP last year and a horrid postseason is worth 15 million AAV.
Yes you can - because the value of top prospects is different than the value of money. Or at least it is to winning teams.
"Talent value" is highly volatile and scarce. Ex. Alonso's value right now is probably significantly higher than it was a couple months ago. His future value probably exceeds $100m worth of production. In contrast the value of money is static, it doesn't have upside.
The Mets paid preferred to spend 1 of the highest upside TALENT values they had in the org to save a very modest amount of MONEY at a position that wasn't lacking in supply. Winning orgs don't generally do that - especially if they are so far under the luxury tax. The Wilpons try to win on their balance sheet first, on the field 2nd. If you enjoy rooting for their balance sheet by all means continue to do so, but please stfu and don't criticize the rest of us for acknowledging the obvious that the Wilpons do things to save money that winning organizations don't do.
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My point is you can't have it both ways... You cant say it's not worth trading a top prospect for a cost controlled closer for 4 years and then turn around and say a closer in his 30s with a 3.33 FIP last year and a horrid postseason is worth 15 million AAV.
Yes you can - because the value of top prospects is different than the value of money. Or at least it is to winning teams.
"Talent value" is highly volatile and scarce. Ex. Alonso's value right now is probably significantly higher than it was a couple months ago. His future value probably exceeds $100m worth of production. In contrast the value of money is static, it doesn't have upside.
The Mets paid preferred to spend 1 of the highest upside TALENT values they had in the org to save a very modest amount of MONEY at a position that wasn't lacking in supply. Winning orgs don't generally do that - especially if they are so far under the luxury tax. The Wilpons try to win on their balance sheet first, on the field 2nd. If you enjoy rooting for their balance sheet by all means continue to do so, but please stfu and don't criticize the rest of us for acknowledging the obvious that the Wilpons do things to save money that winning organizations don't do.
STFU? My oh my. Good one assc lown. So you are considering upside value for prospects out of high school now? LOL. Can we do that for every prospect traded too? Kelenic was a 50-100 nationally ranked prospect at the time of his trade. THAT was his value. Every top closer and even some top setup relievers got traded for top prospects (some more valued than Kelenic) Why don't you STFU and learn the game dipshit.
Either way, how does that make the Wilpons cheap?? makes zero sense.
Either way, how does that make the Wilpons cheap?? makes zero sense.
People complained about them not spending more money, both in the offseason and right now, to fix a BP that has been the achilles heel of the team. That's what makes them cheap.
You call telling me to shut the fuck up "engaging" LOL.
Seriously, your constant bitching about the Wilpons and spending is slowly running out of excuses. Im well aware of the Madoff mess and the restrictions it caused but the Mets are operating a hair below the luxury tax, are spending all their pool money in the draft, and spending almost all of their International Pool money as well. When the game was a three ring circus a few years ago it was easy to complain that they weren't going over and spending more but unless you are advocating severe penalties, you dont have much wiggle room to complain anymore.
And... If the Mets are over .500 at the deadline, I expect them to make a few additions. If they dont, I'll probably be annoyed and might say they are being cheap but we aren't there yet.
When you have to say that each year, youve already lost.
When you have to say that each year, youve already lost.
That's generally the line that makes teams buyers or sellers. That applies to every team. That's all I mean by that.
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If the Mets are over .500 at the deadline...
When you have to say that each year, youve already lost.
That's generally the line that makes teams buyers or sellers. That applies to every team. That's all I mean by that.
I know. My point is that every year we have to hope to be .500 at the deadline. Every year we are disappointed. With the pitching weve had, its been a colossal failure from the top of this org.
BVW hasnt instilled any confidence with his offseason either. Its very clear he wanted to quickly establish himself more then make sensible moves. But we can disagree on that all day.
He was the 6th pick in the draft 4 months before he was traded.
No one believed Kelenic was a 50 - 100 prospect and the only people who cite that are those who are trying to rationalize the trade from the Mets side.
Almost no one liked the trade for the Mets from the second it was announced.
And people didn't like Cano's age, they didn't like how much of Cano's salary the Mets agreed to take, but for most people the straw to break the back on that trade was Kelenic. It was a bad trade, and one that will likely make Mets fans forget Scott Kazmir. Sure, they got value back in Diaz, but closers are a commodity that should not cost you Kelenic plus - especially when you're taking on massive Cano money.
but here I am again rehashing this awful trade. again.
I'm sick of it.
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In comment 14466322 PhiPsi125 said:
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If the Mets are over .500 at the deadline...
When you have to say that each year, youve already lost.
That's generally the line that makes teams buyers or sellers. That applies to every team. That's all I mean by that.
I know. My point is that every year we have to hope to be .500 at the deadline. Every year we are disappointed. With the pitching weve had, its been a colossal failure from the top of this org.
BVW hasnt instilled any confidence with his offseason either. Its very clear he wanted to quickly establish himself more then make sensible moves. But we can disagree on that all day.
Im not saying the offseasons have worked out correctly. I was more just talking about them making moves and spending in general this past year. We had a very active offseason. I liked the moves we made but I didn't think we were suddenly a juggernaut.
When you make Cespedes the face of your franchise and are paying him 30 million AAV and he's basically out, its going to hamper you. I was hoping for a 85-90 win team this year and knew some things had to go right and we had to stay pretty healthy. We'll see.
He was the 6th pick in the draft 4 months before he was traded.
No one believed Kelenic was a 50 - 100 prospect and the only people who cite that are those who are trying to rationalize the trade from the Mets side.
Almost no one liked the trade for the Mets from the second it was announced.
And people didn't like Cano's age, they didn't like how much of Cano's salary the Mets agreed to take, but for most people the straw to break the back on that trade was Kelenic. It was a bad trade, and one that will likely make Mets fans forget Scott Kazmir. Sure, they got value back in Diaz, but closers are a commodity that should not cost you Kelenic plus - especially when you're taking on massive Cano money.
but here I am again rehashing this awful trade. again.
I'm sick of it.
Huh? Im talking about where he was ranked nationally at exactly the time of the trade. 50-100 is EXACTLY where he was. Why? Because the younger he is, the more variance. Of course he is moving up now. He's killing it in Seattle's system. Good for him. Every prospect is traded in every trade with the possibility they will become good some day. And please dont let me dig up articles from the time of the trade again. There were plenty that at least thought it was "fair". Sure you'll find some that didn't like it but please lets just skip it.
Cano is another Met disastrous fading star second basemen, yeah, cant wait for him to come back, before long the Mets will be paying him to go away!
Almost no scouts thought he'd be a bottom half of the hundreds prospect.
This blurb sums of my view of the trade perfectly and I'll let this stand as my final word on it. This is exactly how I felt at the time, and I still do.
In iterations of this deal that had the Mets getting Cano and Diaz while unloading Bruce and giving up a prospect of the non-Kelenic variety, it seemed too good to be true. A deal that has the same general parameters but includes Kelenic? That would be too bad to be true.
The idea of geting Cano (who is 36 years old but still highly productive) while unloading Bruce and adding arguably the best closer in baseball is tantalizing. But if it comes at the expense of Kelenic, the Mets should move on and simply sign one of the many high-impact relievers available on the free agent market.
Yes, many prospects flame out. But so do relievers. And trading the kind of high-impact player Kelenic could be in the deal for Cano makes no sense. Justin Dunn? Sure. Andres Gimenez? Sure. But Kelenic should be off limits.
In retrospect Cano has struggled and Diaz hasn't been quite as dominant (although not really bad) and the trade does look worse.
Time will tell how bad it actually is but I doubt it goes down as one of the worsts ever if Diaz is serviceable.
And I fully expect Kelenic to be a good player in MLB.
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With a half way healthy Cano and Nimmo and the lineup will suddenly look formidable again IMO!
Cano is another Met disastrous fading star second basemen, yeah, cant wait for him to come back, before long the Mets will be paying him to go away!
What is it w the Mets and aging second baseman acquisitions? Randolph, Baerga, Alomar, Cano. And they always get rid of the ones right when they are hitting their prime. Jefferies, Kent, Murphy, Turner.
In retrospect Cano has struggled and Diaz hasn't been quite as dominant (although not really bad) and the trade does look worse.
Time will tell how bad it actually is but I doubt it goes down as one of the worsts ever if Diaz is serviceable.
And I fully expect Kelenic to be a good player in MLB.
I still would rather have included Alonso than Kelenic.
But...that was because of the reports of Alonso's D not being "playable". If that was the case and Alonso was a DH playing 1B it made complete sense.
Even now though the feeling is less strong, but with Dom Smith showing he can play 1B and hit like we hoped, it would have been better long term for the Mets to have included Alonso than Kelenic.
This is even more true if Kelenic can remain in CF.
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I never wanted to trade Kelenic. But the reality is and continues to be that top closers get traded for premium prospects. The price was always going to sting. I vividly remember you saying you wished we had included Alonso instead of Kelenic. How would you have felt about that now? Alonso likely is the Rookie of the Year.
In retrospect Cano has struggled and Diaz hasn't been quite as dominant (although not really bad) and the trade does look worse.
Time will tell how bad it actually is but I doubt it goes down as one of the worsts ever if Diaz is serviceable.
And I fully expect Kelenic to be a good player in MLB.
I still would rather have included Alonso than Kelenic.
But...that was because of the reports of Alonso's D not being "playable". If that was the case and Alonso was a DH playing 1B it made complete sense.
Even now though the feeling is less strong, but with Dom Smith showing he can play 1B and hit like we hoped, it would have been better long term for the Mets to have included Alonso than Kelenic.
This is even more true if Kelenic can remain in CF.
Man. You lose me there. Alonso is shaping up to be the best power bat in Mets history and he's proving it in the game not in single A. His D has also been more than fine so that eliminates his only weakness. You cant pick upside over proven talent in baseball IMO. But ok.
That's what it boils down to for me.
That's what it boils down to for me.
Ok but first your excluding Nimmo who will be back in a couple of days. I think Kelenic will be lucky to ever turn in a season as good as Nimmo's 2018. Second, you're assuming Dom wont carve at a niche in the OF or somewhere anyway and still help us WITH Alonso.
And I know I encouraged it with retrospect talk, but the trade would have been ridiculed 1000 times more if we anointed Smith the future at 1B at the time that deal was made. Smith was laughed at as a complete scrub heading into this season. And if Alonso was running away with Rookie of the Year in Seattle with 20 bombs people would be screaming at the trade even worse right now. Come on, you know it.
Either way, good discussion PJ.