If you have a problem and there is a possible POSITIVE solution, don't implement the proposed solution until you understand the possible NEGATIVE impacts.
(Current issues have turned this old adage around 180 degrees).
Please don't let this comment on long standing definitions get political. This is a football discussion.
The author even says hey it's June, I was 30-75 yards away, the players are wearing shorts and t-shirts and it's not really taken seriously. Other than that the article stirs shit
Oh I m certain there might be some dialogue on the idea, but isn’t that the pt.
You say stir it up, I say create dialogue, you say potato
Personally I would be very happy if they are correct about Jone s progress. I also hope they are wrong about Eli, you can do both you know, it s allowed.
Is look at any positive talk or buzz about jones as a very good thing. Who cares about this guy or that guy starting how many games. We simply want jones to be good. Everything else will be fine and take care of itself if jones is good.
There are several beat writing that feel Manning cant throw any longer Â
I watch a lot of the young QBs in the NFL regularly, and it's crystal clear Manning can't put the ball in places these guys with 10s of thousands less throws on their arm can.
Manning can turn it up sometimes, but he can't all of the time. I don't know why that's controversial or insulting.
You watch Brees and Brady and they struggle getting the ball all over the field now too. In the NFC championship game Brees had a couple really badly under thrown balls. No way Brady can get it 60 yards in the air on a dime like 10 years ago.
Throwing the ball all over is only one facet of succeeding and the Giants seem intent on a shorter strike, less downfield offense. Maybe it will work well enough to keep the dogs off him.
Maybe... if "arm strength" is the defining factor in a successful QB Â
against everything that is known about QB's as they age:
Quote:
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christian : 8:47 pm : link : reply
I watch a lot of the young QBs in the NFL regularly, and it's crystal clear Manning can't put the ball in places these guys with 10s of thousands less throws on their arm can.
Sometimes legs go. Sometimes a guy gets gun shy. There's no evidence to suggest that younger QB's somehow have an advantage on accuracy or putting balls in places vets can't. In fact, arm strength may diminish slightly, but that usually isn't what either puts a guy into retirement or separates the young guys from the older ones.
I feel like Jones could literally morph into Joe Montana and he still wouldn't be starting 2019. I think the only thing Jones performance can do right now is push his start date up by increasing the team's confidence thus making the leash on Eli shorter. I could be dead wrong but I'd be stunned if Eli wasn't starting week 1
I’m glad, in part, because this and subsequent stories Â
I’ll lay waste to the negative ,lying, bs stories following the draft. And in real life, it’s good because it brings optimism that we are set for the future.
But it’s really more a bash Eli story than a pimp Jones story. Jones is just the handy vehicle. And the striking thing is how far he goes out of his way to misrepresent Eli’s performance this week. It’s at odds with all other, sans Leonard/Lombardo, reports, including the coaching staff’s evaluations.
But while he's as much a work in progress as any rookie quarterback, Jones looked better this week than either Carson Wentz or Lamar Jackson (two recent first-round quarterbacks I got long looks at as rookies) did at about the same stage in their development.
If true, Giant fans should take this as hgood news Â
It should surprise no one the younger, faster guy looks better in what amounts to a skills competition.
Put on pads, approximate a pass rush, and let the defense hit a little, and Manning will look better. Manning is a better NFL quarterback right now than Jones.
Jones might never be a better NFL quarterback than Manning is today, and he's certainly not going to be after a few practices.
The only unequivocal positive to take out of practices so far if true is the analysis of Jones's arm undersold it.
Manning is the starter, and Jones is learning. I really hope this year isn't an exercise in shitting on Manning constantly.
post season game? I have watched Eli several times in Albany including his rookie year, all pre season games and on tv for his career. He seems to wake up in 4th qtr of important games after lackluster throws early on.
message for me is don’t judge Eli until season starts and it really counts. We’ll see when his performance really counts.
I feel like Jones could literally morph into Joe Montana and he still wouldn't be starting 2019. I think the only thing Jones performance can do right now is push his start date up by increasing the team's confidence thus making the leash on Eli shorter. I could be dead wrong but I'd be stunned if Eli wasn't starting week 1
Even if he did, remember Montana couldn't beat out DeBerg at first.
Eli is a Giants legend and nothing going forward will change that. But him starting games for the Giants in 2019 and beyond is nothing but a hindrance to the future of the franchise
about not wanting to stir things up. For crissakes, this is a debate site. Are you worried about pissing off the BBI Mainstream?
As far this story, of course there should be an open competition. I still don't like the Jones pick at #6, but it's clear he's an Olympic athlete compared to shuffle board Eli. And today's game and rules fit Jones's potential game more than Eli's eroding game.
If you pumped some Sodium Pentothal into his veins I'm almost certain Shurmur would prefer to roll with Jones's skill sets for his offense. Eli's skill sets are almost a complete waste of time for Shurmur's offense.
So not levering that right away - to quickly see if Jones is a boom or bust - is actually irresponsible. We need to start maximizing that rookie contract...
No doubt Eli and his reps will get wind of this.. Â
about not wanting to stir things up. For crissakes, this is a debate site. Are you worried about pissing off the BBI Mainstream?
As far this story, of course there should be an open competition. I still don't like the Jones pick at #6, but it's clear he's an Olympic athlete compared to shuffle board Eli. And today's game and rules fit Jones's potential game more than Eli's eroding game.
If you pumped some Sodium Pentothal into his veins I'm almost certain Shurmur would prefer to roll with Jones's skill sets for his offense. Eli's skill sets are almost a complete waste of time for Shurmur's offense.
So not levering that right away - to quickly see if Jones is a boom or bust - is actually irresponsible. We need to start maximizing that rookie contract...
I guess my disclaimer was aimed at the posters here who take any article or comment slanted against Eli personally, making spirited but rational dialogue almost non existent on the Eli topic.
Is now magnifying everything does, right or wrong, that's the reality. Eli could go 10-10, the. 1-5, and the headline will be he had a bad practice. The only way you could say Jones is outperforming Eli is if they split reps. But, I'm happy with the stuff about Jones though, can't wait to see him play.
Also, the reports about Eli in OTAs are usually the same each year, seems that way again. I guess it's not a good sign for the apologists who swore he would come in determined to prove the doubters wrong.
Eli is a Giants legend and nothing going forward will change that. But him starting games for the Giants in 2019 and beyond is nothing but a hindrance to the future of the franchise
Well said. This season should be about 2020 and beyond. I don't know where you draw the line at what is and isn't a success if Jones doesn't play but it is at least the NFC Championship Game.
makes the final decision on who starts when. Call me crazy, but I still think Mara desperately want to maximize Eli's chances of being elected to the HOF, and he'd rather go 8-8 with Eli than 10-6 with DJ.
That doesn't mean he's wrong about how they performed in camp, but he's spinning this in the worst possible way for Eli and the best way for Jones.
Jones has never taken an NFL snap. He's not facing "live fire." He's never had to read an NFL defense. Once he's facing real game action, and once there's tape on him, his arm strength is going to be the least of it. His mobility and speed will matter because he's going to want to run for his life.
But let's face it: Eli hasn't played great the last couple of years, and when Geno Smith (of all people) broke the streak in Oakland, he did slightly better. There's reason to doubt Eli even considering the awful line play the last couple of years. Gettleman seems to be a rip-off-the-band-aid kind of guy, and probably would be ok if Jones starts sooner rather than later. And Jones is more Shurmur's kind of QB. So we'll have to see how things go in training camp and exhibition games.
Eli could have started from Day 1 and took his lumps Â
Luckily, he didn't have to. Eli is a student of the game and I bet he learned quite a bit from watching Kurt Warner go about his business. Same goes for Daniel Jones. It's clear the kid is going to work hard and be ready when called upon to take over. That doesn't mean he can't learn a ton from Eli in the meantime. Jones day will come soon enough. No need to rush him.
If this were a horse race, the otas would be the Â
will be inordinate with a Giants legend like Eli taking a backseat. However, I think people are going to be surprised how short Eli's rope is going to be.
for there to be any competition. Eli should have been cut in February. Turn the team over to Jones and see what happens. I'm sure there will be growing pains, but playing Eli even 1 game this year serves no purpose. Having him on the team serves no purpose.
RE: The real story is whether Shurmur or Gettleman/Mara Â
makes the final decision on who starts when. Call me crazy, but I still think Mara desperately want to maximize Eli's chances of being elected to the HOF, and he'd rather go 8-8 with Eli than 10-6 with DJ.
1000%. I can absolutely see Mara getting cold feet/meddling in this.
Eli is our past. Let’s see how things go in games. Then they will decide what’s right to do. But if things work the way we hope it’s coming. That’s a good thing.
None of this is a knock on Eli. He brought us to the top twice. That will always be.
Not really, but not surprised you think that. You don’t think it s. Relevant story for a website devoted to the Giants? Ok.
Quote:
but you're certainly trying to stir things up
Not really, but not surprised you think that.
Let's just sit back and watch the posts then :)
(Current issues have turned this old adage around 180 degrees).
Please don't let this comment on long standing definitions get political. This is a football discussion.
You say stir it up, I say create dialogue, you say potato
Personally I would be very happy if they are correct about Jone s progress. I also hope they are wrong about Eli, you can do both you know, it s allowed.
Manning can turn it up sometimes, but he can't all of the time. I don't know why that's controversial or insulting.
You watch Brees and Brady and they struggle getting the ball all over the field now too. In the NFC championship game Brees had a couple really badly under thrown balls. No way Brady can get it 60 yards in the air on a dime like 10 years ago.
Throwing the ball all over is only one facet of succeeding and the Giants seem intent on a shorter strike, less downfield offense. Maybe it will work well enough to keep the dogs off him.
Eli is way ahead of Jones.
christian : 8:47 pm : link : reply
I watch a lot of the young QBs in the NFL regularly, and it's crystal clear Manning can't put the ball in places these guys with 10s of thousands less throws on their arm can.
Sometimes legs go. Sometimes a guy gets gun shy. There's no evidence to suggest that younger QB's somehow have an advantage on accuracy or putting balls in places vets can't. In fact, arm strength may diminish slightly, but that usually isn't what either puts a guy into retirement or separates the young guys from the older ones.
Just a pretty odd statement.
I see younger, liver arms, struggle far less getting the ball across and down the field than older guys.
It doesn't make them more accurate, more efficient, or better quarterbacks.
But I don't believe 38-year-old Eli Manning can make the throws 25-year-old Manning could.
But it’s really more a bash Eli story than a pimp Jones story. Jones is just the handy vehicle. And the striking thing is how far he goes out of his way to misrepresent Eli’s performance this week. It’s at odds with all other, sans Leonard/Lombardo, reports, including the coaching staff’s evaluations.
Eli is way ahead of Jones.
I ve no doubt this is true
Both of which have not existed on this site for awhile...
Put on pads, approximate a pass rush, and let the defense hit a little, and Manning will look better. Manning is a better NFL quarterback right now than Jones.
Jones might never be a better NFL quarterback than Manning is today, and he's certainly not going to be after a few practices.
The only unequivocal positive to take out of practices so far if true is the analysis of Jones's arm undersold it.
Manning is the starter, and Jones is learning. I really hope this year isn't an exercise in shitting on Manning constantly.
message for me is don’t judge Eli until season starts and it really counts. We’ll see when his performance really counts.
I personally hope he beats Manning out.
Even if he did, remember Montana couldn't beat out DeBerg at first.
It’s click bait, speculative bullshit.
As far this story, of course there should be an open competition. I still don't like the Jones pick at #6, but it's clear he's an Olympic athlete compared to shuffle board Eli. And today's game and rules fit Jones's potential game more than Eli's eroding game.
If you pumped some Sodium Pentothal into his veins I'm almost certain Shurmur would prefer to roll with Jones's skill sets for his offense. Eli's skill sets are almost a complete waste of time for Shurmur's offense.
So not levering that right away - to quickly see if Jones is a boom or bust - is actually irresponsible. We need to start maximizing that rookie contract...
As far this story, of course there should be an open competition. I still don't like the Jones pick at #6, but it's clear he's an Olympic athlete compared to shuffle board Eli. And today's game and rules fit Jones's potential game more than Eli's eroding game.
If you pumped some Sodium Pentothal into his veins I'm almost certain Shurmur would prefer to roll with Jones's skill sets for his offense. Eli's skill sets are almost a complete waste of time for Shurmur's offense.
So not levering that right away - to quickly see if Jones is a boom or bust - is actually irresponsible. We need to start maximizing that rookie contract...
I guess my disclaimer was aimed at the posters here who take any article or comment slanted against Eli personally, making spirited but rational dialogue almost non existent on the Eli topic.
Also, the reports about Eli in OTAs are usually the same each year, seems that way again. I guess it's not a good sign for the apologists who swore he would come in determined to prove the doubters wrong.
maybe it'll be legit. maybe not. Most media won't care one way or the other. whatever gets the sale.
Jones has never taken an NFL snap. He's not facing "live fire." He's never had to read an NFL defense. Once he's facing real game action, and once there's tape on him, his arm strength is going to be the least of it. His mobility and speed will matter because he's going to want to run for his life.
But let's face it: Eli hasn't played great the last couple of years, and when Geno Smith (of all people) broke the streak in Oakland, he did slightly better. There's reason to doubt Eli even considering the awful line play the last couple of years. Gettleman seems to be a rip-off-the-band-aid kind of guy, and probably would be ok if Jones starts sooner rather than later. And Jones is more Shurmur's kind of QB. So we'll have to see how things go in training camp and exhibition games.
Next~
1000%. I can absolutely see Mara getting cold feet/meddling in this.
None of this is a knock on Eli. He brought us to the top twice. That will always be.