Was on a thread recently where a comment was demeaningly made, and I paraphrase, about putting cheese (or not) on a pasta vongole.
I'm getting as old as fuck, but with my maternal grandparents having come over from Naples and Sicily respectively, I thought I'd put in my 2 cents/ask others:
Does cheese belong on any seafood or seafood-related pasta dish?
Me- Reggiano Parmigiano and/or Pecorino Romano (preferably Locatelli) Hell yes. This is how I was raised.
To me the issue between New York and Italian food pronunciation of words is more wide then the actual dishes.
Examples:
Gabbagul = Capicola
Rigut = Ricotta
Fazzool = Fagioli
Galama = Calamari
Managut = Manicotti
Ganol - Cannoli
In all the foods above the preparation and recipes are probably similar, but no one in Italy will know what the hell you are talking about if you speak the New York Italian/English dialect version of these foods.
It's actually quite comical.
It’s derived from a southern Italian dialect. People from Italy did speak this way, at least regionally. Italy didn’t become a unified country until the later half of the 19th century. Different dialects of Italianish language were spoken in different regions. Most of the immigrants from Italy who came here were from the south, and their dialect dropped the last vowel, turned cees to gees, etc. That pronuncistion style has persisted in the NJ/NY area, for food items at least. But it’s largely died out in Italy itself.
The people were hospitable. Even with an unemployment rate of 40%, everyone seemed so content with life. The women were absolutely gorgeous. How they stay thin - who knows. Visited my families home town, people who didn't even know us invited us in for dinner.
I'm drunk & rambling. Sorry. It is a beautiful island. Siracusa, Catania and so many other places were breathtaking. The architecture was fantastic. I really fell in love with the country.
It’s derived from a southern Italian dialect. People from Italy did speak this way, at least regionally. Italy didn’t become a unified country until the later half of the 19th century. Different dialects of Italianish language were spoken in different regions. Most of the immigrants from Italy who came here were from the south, and their dialect dropped the last vowel, turned cees to gees, etc. That pronuncistion style has persisted in the NJ/NY area, for food items at least. But it’s largely died out in Italy itself.
Yup, I come from an Italian family in an Italian area of central CT. I was taught when pronouncing Italian foods to drop the last letter and say it like an old Italian man (there were plenty around ie. grandfather, Italian club members). We never changed the spelling however as they sometimes seem to do in NY/NJ
This.
and also, why do people care what other people like to eat?
Why are there random nonsensical rules?
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Why do you care what other people think of what you like to eat?
This.
and also, why do people care what other people like to eat?
Why are there random nonsensical rules?
Some rules are random and nonsensical, but lots of food rules, like the kosher laws derived from real or perceived health issues at the time. I don't know which category cheese/fish fits into. But the best rule is eat what you like and don't judge others, at least not in print.
To me the issue between New York and Italian food pronunciation of words is more wide then the actual dishes.
Examples:
Gabbagul = Capicola
Rigut = Ricotta
Fazzool = Fagioli
Galama = Calamari
Managut = Manicotti
Ganol - Cannoli
In all the foods above the preparation and recipes are probably similar, but no one in Italy will know what the hell you are talking about if you speak the New York Italian/English dialect version of these foods.
It's actually quite comical.
Where the pronunciation came from - ( New Window )
With all my heart I don't think that is the bigger question AT ALL.
Take a good look at the big picture of America and American restaurants (especially chains and fast food), American food products (from freezer section microwavable meals to cupcakes to the plethora of breakfast cereals and breakfast bars), and to the statistics of America's largest pandemic - the alarming spread of obesity driven type 2 diabetes.
The bigger question should be why DON'T we care and think about what WE like to eat?
Eventually they started selling tiny buffalo wings. By the time I was old enough to drink it had become Delicious Heights.
When I took over the kitchen, there was one thing on the menu that I didn't change, the wings. In my opinion that was the only thing the previous crew didn't screw up, except on the cost. They were charging 4.95 for a dozen wings that cost the kitchen 4.75. I had to raise it to about $8, and customers wanted to kill me!
2) The NY/NJ pronunciations (I even cringe to call it a dialect) is not only not used anywhere we were in Italy (Rome down to Sicily), but they didn't even understand it. We overheard another couple likely from the NYC area ask for I don't remember what, using that NY/NJ pronunciation, the server not only didn't understand what they were saying, but they seemed insulted once it was sorted out. It was kind of amusing hearing people ask for moozarell, galama, etc. and get blank stares to glares in return.
3) There is also a distinct difference in cooking styles and types of foods eaten in Italy divided in a more North-South distinction. In the north, they eat more meats, have more butter and cream in dishes, eat different vegetables, etc. This is because there are parts more land locked, near the Alps, etc. It is different terrain and a different lifestyle. Rome south is much closer to the red sauce Italian most Americans are used to (but so much better). There is much more seafood, more garlic and spices, and it is heavier on pasta, etc. It is more peasant food. Both stykles are delicious, but very different.
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In comment 14466530 JPinstripes said:
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In comment 14466522 DaShotel13 said:
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In comment 14466515 Zeke's Alibi said:
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northern and southern italians on this. Which makes sense cause most northerners constantly have a stick up their ass about something.
I think the BIG discrepancy is people who think Italian American food is the same as Italian Cuisine.
Pasta Fazul doesn’t exist east of the US
Not true at all... Pasta Fagioli exists in Italy and is the same dish as Pasta Fazool, so different pronunciation of an Italian word or other dialect does not make the preparation and recipe of the plate much different.
I do think north versus south cuisine in general has an impact on food types in Italy like in most countries around the globe including the USA.
Now to really split hairs, it’s actually pasta e fagioli but you are absolutely correct, the dish exists but I was highlighting more of the misappropriation of “Italian” cooking here in the US (mutz, prosciutt, calamad, fazul, etc)
To me the issue between New York and Italian food pronunciation of words is more wide then the actual dishes.
Examples:
Gabbagul = Capicola
Rigut = Ricotta
Fazzool = Fagioli
Galama = Calamari
Managut = Manicotti
Ganol - Cannoli
In all the foods above the preparation and recipes are probably similar, but no one in Italy will know what the hell you are talking about if you speak the New York Italian/English dialect version of these foods.
It's actually quite comical.
mooz too
I grew up in New Haven which has a heavy Italian population and I had never seen the words actually spelled out and didn't know that manicotti and monegot were the same thing or capicola and gobagool were the same things.
I never heard anyone actually say mozzarella until I was a teenager.
I still have trouble saying it today, but I do because that's how people know it, but it's mooz to me (pronounced mootz). What my kids call mozzarella sticks was fried mootz to me (basically).
Bensonhurst Spelling Bee - ( New Window )
The people were hospitable. Even with an unemployment rate of 40%, everyone seemed so content with life. The women were absolutely gorgeous. How they stay thin - who knows. Visited my families home town, people who didn't even know us invited us in for dinner.
I'm drunk & rambling. Sorry. It is a beautiful island. Siracusa, Catania and so many other places were breathtaking. The architecture was fantastic. I really fell in love with the country.
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northern and southern italians on this. Which makes sense cause most northerners constantly have a stick up their ass about something.
I think the BIG discrepancy is people who think Italian American food is the same as Italian Cuisine.
Pasta Fazul doesn’t exist east of the US
Not true at all... Pasta Fagioli exists in Italy and is the same dish as Pasta Fazool, so different pronunciation of an Italian word or other dialect does not make the preparation and recipe of the plate much different.
I do think north versus south cuisine in general has an impact on food types in Italy like in most countries around the globe including the USA.
Now to really split hairs, it’s actually pasta e fagioli but you are absolutely correct, the dish exists but I was highlighting more of the misappropriation of “Italian” cooking here in the US (mutz, prosciutt, calamad, fazul, etc)
To me the issue between New York and Italian food pronunciation of words is more wide then the actual dishes.
Examples:
Gabbagul = Capicola
Rigut = Ricotta
Fazzool = Fagioli
Galama = Calamari
Managut = Manicotti
Ganol - Cannoli
In all the foods above the preparation and recipes are probably similar, but no one in Italy will know what the hell you are talking about if you speak the New York Italian/English dialect version of these foods.
It's actually quite comical.
mooz too
I grew up in New Haven which has a heavy Italian population and I had never seen the words actually spelled out and didn't know that manicotti and monegot were the same thing or capicola and gobagool were the same things.
I never heard anyone actually say mozzarella until I was a teenager.
I still have trouble saying it today, but I do because that's how people know it, but it's mooz to me (pronounced mootz). What my kids call mozzarella sticks was fried mootz to me (basically).
"Motz" annoys the hell out of me. It's okay if you're talking about apple juice...but do you say "Amer?" "Or Camem?" Or "Jarls?"
No. So say "mozzarella" or shut up.
I've never been south of Rome, but I think the reference above was to "American" dishes like chicken parmesan, veal parmesan, and heaven forbid "scampi parmesan."
Tomato sauce and cheese shouldn't be spread all over anything that was, when alive, motile.
Well excepting hamburgers, meatloaf, and meat balls in a hoagie.
When my Grandmother made pizza, it was almost always Sicilian style, with fresh tomatoes or crushed tomatoes, basil and some parmesean. She used mozzerella sparingly, if at all on pizza. And she always made one white pizza with olive oil, fresh ground pepper and anchovies.
The other "Parm" dishes that exist in the USA and Brazil with Meatballs, Chicken, Shrimp, Veal and Beef are quite rare in Italy.
Oh and if you ask for Pizza with Pepperoni in Italy you will get "peppers" on your pizza. The closest thing you can get to American traditional Pepperoni is Salami Picante.
When my Grandmother made pizza, it was almost always Sicilian style, with fresh tomatoes or crushed tomatoes, basil and some parmesean. She used mozzerella sparingly, if at all on pizza. And she always made one white pizza with olive oil, fresh ground pepper and anchovies.
We'll have dueling Grandmothers, then, because mine put a ton of mozzarella on her pizza (Sicilian style), with very little sauce. White pizza was ricotta and a lot of chopped garlic.
When my Grandmother made pizza, it was almost always Sicilian style, with fresh tomatoes or crushed tomatoes, basil and some parmesean. She used mozzerella sparingly, if at all on pizza. And she always made one white pizza with olive oil, fresh ground pepper and anchovies.
Deserving mention, I think, is what Italians in Italy have and use as "anchovies" - whole anchovies packed in salt and a dribble of evoo. They are a world apart from American (imported here or not) Filets of Anchovies.
In Israel, for some reason, especially among the Sephardic descended Jews, thick crust pizza with a light tomato sauce and chunks of tuna is very popular. Never with cheese.
can I assume they're made with grated parm and not mozzarella?
Well there is evoo in the caramelized onions and a bit in the dough, but nothing beyond that. That's one of my favorite pizzas. Ricotta no, but you can always customize any recipe to your own taste.
Funnily enough, we didn't have ricotta at all at Riera's restaurant. No use for it.
Bread & Zucchini Lasagne - ( New Window )
Drew, I can't find the recipe direct from Lidia either. The one you link uses fried zucchini. I found another one that says it's from Lidia with boiled zucchini. Link below
Link - ( New Window )
Just hotdogs 😂😂
Seafood and cheese.
Mexicans are all over it.
Or maybe it's just American Mexicans, like the American Italians, put cheese on everything.
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find eggplant parmesean and zucchini parmesan on menus in Italy quite a bit.
I've never been south of Rome, but I think the reference above was to "American" dishes like chicken parmesan, veal parmesan, and heaven forbid "scampi parmesan."
Tomato sauce and cheese shouldn't be spread all over anything that was, when alive, motile.
Well excepting hamburgers, meatloaf, and meat balls in a hoagie.
Close thread. This is the correct answer. We never put cheese on fish.
You guys just got me craving Italian food, though, so much for low carbs today....
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Man, how could I forget one of my all=time favs? McDonalds' Filet O Fish with American cheese. Whenever I had to have dinner in my car in UT, I'd get that and a double cheeseburger to go. Heaven
I haven't had McDo'nald's in about 20 years. But, even when I ate it, I don't think I ever had the Filet O Fish.
Gotta try it Matt, it's a game changer, LOL
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If you like ketchup on your french toast ... eat it.
Just hotdogs 😂😂
Ketchup on Hotdogs ???!! .... get otta here. Did the mods read this? ... how is this not a bannable offense?
... ; ) J/K.
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In comment 14467050 Bill in UT said:
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Man, how could I forget one of my all=time favs? McDonalds' Filet O Fish with American cheese. Whenever I had to have dinner in my car in UT, I'd get that and a double cheeseburger to go. Heaven
I haven't had McDo'nald's in about 20 years. But, even when I ate it, I don't think I ever had the Filet O Fish.
Gotta try it Matt, it's a game changer, LOL
Oh yeah, MacDonalds Filet o' Fish was definitely a game changer.
Changed a simple filet of fish - one of the healthiest protein foods a human can consume - into the nutritive value of a glazed donut!
If you want to blame somebody, Blame the Brits.
The other "Parm" dishes that exist in the USA and Brazil with Meatballs, Chicken, Shrimp, Veal and Beef are quite rare in Italy.
Oh and if you ask for Pizza with Pepperoni in Italy you will get "peppers" on your pizza. The closest thing you can get to American traditional Pepperoni is Salami Picante.
Diavola yo
Mixed the tuna lightly with a tblsp or so of mayo and maybe 1/2 tsp dijon mustard, spread on a lightly toasted everything bagel, topped pretty generously with fresh mozzarella, melted under a broiler, each 1/2 topped with 2 tomato slices.
Skipped the bacon... Tomato slices were my concession to dietary health.
It was yummy. No salt or pepper or other spices other than what's already in the mayo and dijon.
Mixed the tuna lightly with a tblsp or so of mayo and maybe 1/2 tsp dijon mustard, spread on a lightly toasted everything bagel, topped pretty generously with fresh mozzarella, melted under a broiler, each 1/2 topped with 2 tomato slices.
Skipped the bacon... Tomato slices were my concession to dietary health.
It was yummy. No salt or pepper or other spices other than what's already in the mayo and dijon.
Italian tuna, domestic light or dark?
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I did indeed have a tuna melt this morning for breakfast, on an "everything" bagel.
Mixed the tuna lightly with a tblsp or so of mayo and maybe 1/2 tsp dijon mustard, spread on a lightly toasted everything bagel, topped pretty generously with fresh mozzarella, melted under a broiler, each 1/2 topped with 2 tomato slices.
Skipped the bacon... Tomato slices were my concession to dietary health.
It was yummy. No salt or pepper or other spices other than what's already in the mayo and dijon.
Italian tuna, domestic light or dark?
Yellowfin Tuna, Solid Light packed in oil, product of Thailand but somehow canned in the USA
DelMar brand, first I've seen or bought it. Slightly undersized can of 3 oz net but really almost all tuna, very little oil or juice, so it's a perfect 1 person portion.
Good - very good quality, far closer to a solid white Albacore than your typical cheap "chunk light" from Starkist that is over the top fishy for me.
I will buy this product again. Tab top can too, for convenience.