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NFT: BBI Italians/Sicilians- Cheese on Seafood/Pasta Or No?

CRinCA : 6/7/2019 8:34 pm
Was on a thread recently where a comment was demeaningly made, and I paraphrase, about putting cheese (or not) on a pasta vongole.

I'm getting as old as fuck, but with my maternal grandparents having come over from Naples and Sicily respectively, I thought I'd put in my 2 cents/ask others:

Does cheese belong on any seafood or seafood-related pasta dish?

Me- Reggiano Parmigiano and/or Pecorino Romano (preferably Locatelli) Hell yes. This is how I was raised.

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I put Locetelli on all seafood dishes that have pasta  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 8:36 pm : link
Crab sauce, shrimp and vodka sauce etc
of course  
pjcas18 : 6/7/2019 8:37 pm : link
the more cheese the better, anyone who thinks differently not only probably isn't Italian, but is probably a psychopath.
It's fine as long as you don't burn a $50 dry aged steak  
Larry in Pencilvania : 6/7/2019 8:37 pm : link
.
it's a misnomer that cheese doesn't go with seafood  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 8:38 pm : link
or there would be no Shrimp Parm
RE: it's a misnomer that cheese doesn't go with seafood  
Bill in UT : 6/7/2019 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14466360 gtt350 said:
Quote:
or there would be no Shrimp Parm


This. Iv'e had some pretty good shrimp parm
Peccorino Romano..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 8:40 pm : link
on linguine with clam sauce is fine.
oops, I'm not  
Bill in UT : 6/7/2019 8:44 pm : link
Italian or Sicilian. Ignore my answer.
PJ +1, hehehe, I'ma psycho for sure  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 8:46 pm : link
But, despite our prior noted and shared appreciation for the joys of tinned fish, I have to disagree with fatty on this one.

Whereas there is a fine genre that pairs say, oysters and cream and maybe even seafood and nutmeg and cream, soft cheese's in certain dishes, not my thing but ok anyway;

Putting the hard, dry type cheeses on vongole (clams) is a monstrous abomination, a faux pas of the highest order 😃
Aw hell Bill - I forgot to add "or anyone else that gives a shit".  
CRinCA : 6/7/2019 8:48 pm : link
It's Happy Hour here in CA now...

Hope you are well.
umm oysters rockefeller  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 8:49 pm : link
Linguinii and clam sauce without cheese and red pepper is unheard of in my family
Not in Italy  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 8:50 pm : link
First of all "Parmigiana" in Italy is Eggplant Parmigiana, they don't have any other reference there.

Second, no Italian puts grated cheese on pasta and fish - none, regardless of in Sicily or north of Italy.
Butter, yes  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 8:51 pm : link
One can absolutely put butter in pasta vongole.

Olive oil, fresh clams, the clam juice, butter, pasta.

Maybe parsley

That's it.

Maaaaaaybe garlic, fresh.
bhahaha maybe garlic  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 8:53 pm : link
,
pj and idiot  
CRinCA : 6/7/2019 8:53 pm : link
As an aside I'd love to be included in the "tinned discussion".
Thank you JP  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 8:53 pm : link
I'm not too ignorant for a dirt poor Scot that hasn't flown in over ten years.
There is no butter on  
section125 : 6/7/2019 8:55 pm : link
pasta in Italy. No butter on bread - olive oil.
Maaaaaaybe  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 8:55 pm : link
Juuuuuusht maaaaybe


You will beat me.

And I can finally retire with Serge and.my poodle, to the Alps and grow a garden
I lived there for 4 years  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 8:58 pm : link
and understand the "rules" when it comes to food and drink rules. I don't agree at all, but they are stringent (ignorant) and will tell non Italians what you can, can't and will never order in Italia.
Lobster Thermidor  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 9:00 pm : link
now the French have no problem with cheese and neither should we
Crinca  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 9:02 pm : link
Potted Beef.


Boom.
another fallicy is that in Italy they don't use butter on pasta  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 9:03 pm : link
the best meal i ever had, maybe in my life was a platter of pasta with fresh grated truffles and butter in Tuscany
This..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 9:04 pm : link
sums it up pretty well. My Grandparents were straight from Italy and a good cheese adorned almost every meal:

Quote:
The wry Robert Trachtenberg, writing Just Grate in the NY Times, found the oldest surviving “Sicilian recipe — from around 400 B.C. — for fish: ‘Gut. Discard the head, rinse, slice; add cheese and oil.’” He also browbeat famous chefs in Rome and Venice until they admitted to serving fish pastas with cheese added in the kitchen.

Trachtenberg quotes the famed cookbook author Nancy Harmon Jenkins, who speaks the truth when she said, “‘One of the great things about Italy is they love making rules. And they obey very few.’”
RE: another fallicy is that in Italy they don't use butter on pasta  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 9:09 pm : link
In comment 14466409 gtt350 said:
Quote:
the best meal i ever had, maybe in my life was a platter of pasta with fresh grated truffles and butter in Tuscany


Pasta con burro (butter) and rosemario (Rosemary) is fine.
LOL at FMIC  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 9:10 pm : link
Very true
Food is supposed to taste good. Pecorino Romano definetly  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/7/2019 9:10 pm : link
pairs with pasta vognolo. I ate it that way growing up being part sicilian.
it's all fine you eat what you like and how you like it  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 9:12 pm : link
. If someone tells you how to eat something what is a guy's first response

usually fuck off
I mean I see people add ketchup to everything. I just feel bad  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/7/2019 9:14 pm : link
for them. Sugar junkies.
HELL NO  
Jim Bur(n)t : 6/7/2019 9:16 pm : link
Sacrilege
RE: it's all fine you eat what you like and how you like it  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 9:17 pm : link
In comment 14466423 gtt350 said:
Quote:
. If someone tells you how to eat something what is a guy's first response

usually fuck off


Agree so when in Italy tell then Va Fangool! and don't worry about the dialect :) Stupid Italian Rules....
I would dine in some of the finest Italian restaurants in NY hosted  
gtt350 : 6/7/2019 9:18 pm : link
by a Jewish Mfg who always ordered a side of pasta plain and put ketchup on it.
That's what his mother served him as a kid, and this was a multi millionaire who had no problem requesting it.
RE: PJ +1, hehehe, I'ma psycho for sure  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/7/2019 9:30 pm : link
In comment 14466378 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
But, despite our prior noted and shared appreciation for the joys of tinned fish, I have to disagree with fatty on this one.

Whereas there is a fine genre that pairs say, oysters and cream and maybe even seafood and nutmeg and cream, soft cheese's in certain dishes, not my thing but ok anyway;

Putting the hard, dry type cheeses on vongole (clams) is a monstrous abomination, a faux pas of the highest order 😃


Idiotsavant +100 IMO.

Maybe it matters if you are a Northern Italian, a southern Italian, a Sicilian, or an Italian American. Maybe it matters if you know, love and truly appreciate fine fresh seafood. Maybe it matters if you have a discerning palate.

But I have read from some source (Marcella Hazan?) that no Northern Italian would grate Parmiggiano over a seafood pasta, certainly no Tuscan, Piemontese, Veronese, Venetian, or any other northern Italian with a sense of culture.

Me? If I prepare a Linguine Vongole from canned chopped clams all is fair, but if I go to the trouble and expenditure to get fresh small clams and or other molluscs, the hell you're gonna overpower that delicate sweet Briny flavor with grated hard cheese like Parmiggiano or Pecorino. Basta!
Exactly  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 9:37 pm : link
And ironically on the heels of some of us extolling the tinned seafood.

But for fresh, high quality real clams, pecorino would truly be an abomination.

And you don't need it's saltynrss anyway, as that's supplied by the clams juices, not it's fattyness, as that's in the olio and or butter
I was in Sicily last summer...  
Kanavis : 6/7/2019 9:39 pm : link
And there were plenty of people eating cheese on seafood pasta. They weren't tourists.
RE: it's a misnomer that cheese doesn't go with seafood  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/7/2019 9:41 pm : link
In comment 14466360 gtt350 said:
Quote:
or there would be no Shrimp Parm

It is definitely NOT a misnomer.

But there is nothing wrong with the judicious use of cheese on a seafood pasta.
Pecorino or parmegian  
idiotsavant : 6/7/2019 9:42 pm : link
On fresh good clams is sort of like a chicken omlett.

Like, it might taste ok, but, it just cannot be done and tastes bad for inexplicable reasons.

Lou  
CRinCA : 6/7/2019 9:48 pm : link
Why does it need to "overpower", why not "compliment"?

Granted my formal kitchen years are well behind me, but I believe there's a culinary middle ground here.
YES!!!!!!  
Devour the Day : 6/7/2019 9:49 pm : link
Same here.... all 4 grandparents from Italy both grandfathers from Sicily and one grandmothers from Naples and the other from Florence. All seafood related dishes (pasta/clam, scungilli and/or calamari fra diavlo, shrimp/pasta etc..) the more cheese the better.

Also cheese goes in Escarole soup, pasta fagioli, and escarole and beans.
RE: RE: it's a misnomer that cheese doesn't go with seafood  
gmenatlarge : 6/7/2019 9:50 pm : link
In comment 14466363 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 14466360 gtt350 said:


Quote:


or there would be no Shrimp Parm



This. Iv'e had some pretty good shrimp parm


The best is shrimp ball parmigiana, how they cut all those shrimp’s balls off I’ll never figure out!
It's really impossible  
pjcas18 : 6/7/2019 9:50 pm : link
or at least irresponsible to make seafood lasagna without cheese.

True story  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 9:58 pm : link
sitting in a restaurant having lunch in Riccione Italy (Adriatic Coast) with 15 Italians, myself and my American Jewish accountant.. We order Pasta with shellfish (shrimp, clams, mussels and etc) family style (fresh from the Adriatic) and my American bean counter asks the waitress for grated cheese... You have no idea the silence then abuse this guy took at the table, and no he did not get the grated cheese for his plate.
You can't put parmigiana on spaghetti alle vongole  
adamg : 6/7/2019 10:26 pm : link
that's gross. Fresh garlic, olive oil, and a couple tablespoons of butter, salt, pepper, and tons of fresh parsley. No pecorino. No parm. Ick.

And I'm not Italian, but I've eaten Italian food.

And you could technically put cheese on it. But you're wrong. And you should feel bad about it.
RE: Lou  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/7/2019 10:31 pm : link
In comment 14466476 CRinCA said:
Quote:
Why does it need to "overpower", why not "compliment"?

Granted my formal kitchen years are well behind me, but I believe there's a culinary middle ground here.


CR I'll grant that I am a sort of "food Nazi" who holds onto rigid ideas about some food combinations. But once upon a time I had an awesome and sensitive palate and during that time was cooking at a very, very high level and formed certain opinions that are no kind of set in stone.

As an example, take a nice fresh piece of wild line caught salmon. You can find 50 ways to prepare it and sauce it, all of which are "good", maybe even very good. But nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will be better than grilling or broiling it (high heat sear, cooked to "a point") and serving with a beurre blanc or herbed beurre blanc. It's a kind of perfection that can't be improved upon.

A great scampi made with fresh prawns or shrimp, a great pot of steamed clams or mussels can be goosed with a judicious use of fresh herbs, the exact quotient of chopped garlic and/or shallots and/or ginger (for an Asian twist) and or green onions, etc, or goosed with alternative liquids to the classic dry white wine (sherry, vermouth, cognac etc) but these dishes can't be improved by ladling cream or G-d forbid Mornay sauce into them or by being topped with grated cheese, because as some great gastronome once said "good food tastes like what it is!"

I know the theory that melted cheese and tomato sauce ladled over the top of ANYTHING makes it better. One very good chef friend used to say jokingly - "cheese is Man's friend!" but to my mind not when it takes away from or covers up the goodness and clarity of something else.

Parmeggiano and pecorino are powerful ad distinctive and delicious flavors, but I don't like them on fresh delicate seafood - or on chocolate.

For that matter, who the hell thought up the idea of dipping strawberries in chocolate? It's a disgusting combination, unlike cherries and chocolate, which I suppose gave some nitwit the idea to do it to strawberries.

I mean, chocolate and strawberries do not complement each other... neither does fresh seafood and grated hard cheese.
RE: Lobster Thermidor  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/7/2019 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14466405 gtt350 said:
Quote:
now the French have no problem with cheese and neither should we


Does anyone over the age of 18 prefer Lobster Thermidor - or Lobster Newberg, to a fresh steamed or broiled lobster served with drawn butter? Those are dishes to be prepared when the lobsters start dying, IMO.
RE: True story  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/7/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14466487 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
sitting in a restaurant having lunch in Riccione Italy (Adriatic Coast) with 15 Italians, myself and my American Jewish accountant.. We order Pasta with shellfish (shrimp, clams, mussels and etc) family style (fresh from the Adriatic) and my American bean counter asks the waitress for grated cheese... You have no idea the silence then abuse this guy took at the table, and no he did not get the grated cheese for his plate.


They were right, but why does the punishment always have to com down on a Jew? Why not on some Sicilain?
RE: RE: Lobster Thermidor  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14466507 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14466405 gtt350 said:


Quote:


now the French have no problem with cheese and neither should we



Does anyone over the age of 18 prefer Lobster Thermidor - or Lobster Newberg, to a fresh steamed or broiled lobster served with drawn butter? Those are dishes to be prepared when the lobsters start dying, IMO.


Catalan style is my favorite.
RE: RE: True story  
JPinstripes : 6/7/2019 10:41 pm : link
In comment 14466509 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14466487 JPinstripes said:


Quote:


sitting in a restaurant having lunch in Riccione Italy (Adriatic Coast) with 15 Italians, myself and my American Jewish accountant.. We order Pasta with shellfish (shrimp, clams, mussels and etc) family style (fresh from the Adriatic) and my American bean counter asks the waitress for grated cheese... You have no idea the silence then abuse this guy took at the table, and no he did not get the grated cheese for his plate.



They were right, but why does the punishment always have to com down on a Jew? Why not on some Sicilain?


Hahahahaha - he is my dear friend and was a great sport, no harm and no foul... Something I tease him about until this day.
From this thread it seems like there is a big descrepancy between  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/7/2019 10:50 pm : link
northern and southern italians on this. Which makes sense cause most northerners constantly have a stick up their ass about something.
RE: From this thread it seems like there is a big descrepancy between  
DaShotel13 : 6/7/2019 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14466515 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
northern and southern italians on this. Which makes sense cause most northerners constantly have a stick up their ass about something.


I think the BIG discrepancy is people who think Italian American food is the same as Italian Cuisine.

Pasta Fazul doesn’t exist east of the US
RE: RE: From this thread it seems like there is a big descrepancy between  
adamg : 6/7/2019 11:07 pm : link
In comment 14466522 DaShotel13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14466515 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


northern and southern italians on this. Which makes sense cause most northerners constantly have a stick up their ass about something.



I think the BIG discrepancy is people who think Italian American food is the same as Italian Cuisine.

Pasta Fazul doesn’t exist east of the US


This.
I think lasagne al forno is THE classic dish through which one  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/7/2019 11:07 pm : link
sees the differences in Northern vs Southern Italian approaches to cooking. A proper lasagne al forno in Emiglia Romagna is made from Fresh egg pasta, bescamella, bolognese sance, and grated parmesan or a parmesan/pecorino blend.

That's ALL that is in a classic Northern Italian Lasagne. The Bescamella sauce is typically redolent of fresh grated nutmeg, and for that matter so is the Bolognese ragu.

In the south, you find lasagne made with sausage and ground beef, ricotta, mozzarella, sometimes bound with egg, and the pasta is a dry pasta not containing any egg at all.

Both can be delicious, but to my taste the Norther one done right reaches another level of Heaven. Maybe because my Bolognese has some distinctively southern Italian twists to it, but the texture isn't mucked up with ricotta and mozzarella...
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