It’s been quite the offseason coming off a 5-11 season. I like what the Giants have done & you can argue it has been the most significant offseason since 2004. Franchise impacting decisions:
-Let Landon Collins walk for a comp pick
-Trade Beckham
-Draft Daniel Jones
OL has been solidified further & culture has been a priority. What I’ve found the most refreshing is the lack of noise/drama with the team thus far.
Beckham has gotten into twitter wars with the media, Snacks Harrison blew off Lions mandatory mini camp, Landon Collins can’t stop talking about the Giants.
I’m excited because I feel hope with this franchise. I’m hoping for growth this season with a bunch of cap flexibility in 2020 and beyond.
How are we all feeling?
The giants have done well when they zeroed in on the draft like they have here the last two years. Not only did they draft with smart intentions they are giving these picks every opportunity to succeed.
I like where they sit right now as a franchise. I’m not crazy about shurmur but I don’t think he’s bad either. What I do love is shurmur’s qb development skills.
We’re in a good spot. The team is better and younger than last year and miles ahead of where it was mid 2017 when it was rock bottom.
Thoughts of Barkley make me happy. Thoughts of Jones being the goods make me giddy. Let’s be honest it’s going to be fun to remind the millions of morons that went ape shit on draft night. Almost seems that the angrier the draft backlash is the more likely that player laughs last. Jones will too.
Very little concern for the offense. Shurmur knows O and has plenty of weapons at his disposal (despite the loss of OBJ) and finally the semblance of an offensive line.
The year we lost Tiki who arguably was right at the same impact level for the offense that OBJ was between his running and receiving ability. Guess what we won the Super Bowl. The next year after losing Shockey? Same thing. Not saying Super Bowl win or anything like that but just not to overestimate the loss of one player if you still have built a good overall unit without him
As crazy as it sounds I think people really are sleeping on Barkley and the impact he’s going to have on wins and losses. Last year it was just about his talents and skills but the team wasn’t ready to win yet, especially early on in the year. 2019 should be different. Barkley is going be a winning player soon. He’s too good not to be.
Hoping the OL is good so that Eli and Saquon can do some magic.
I think the WRs will be a problem this year and that we will have real issues converting on 3rd and long.
I think Eli will have a down year on stats but more wins.
Nothing has changed?? The Giants may or may not run 4th again in the division, but nothing has changed? Seriously?
Agreed. You can't really tell anything one way or another until the pads come on and the hitting starts.
I like the attitude shown, of course, the fact that everybody's there and the mood seems upbeat, but none of the questions surrounding this team will be answered in June.
The D on the other hand has been restocked with a TON of promising talent but much of it is still very young and unproven. You have the 'lead dogs' that DG spoke about in each unit but still a lot of youth that will need to grow up quick. However in theory the skillsets assembled better match what Bettcher is trying to do and that in itself will pay dividends. Just how quickly the youth matures will be key for just how good the D will be.
But if the offense performs like they did 2nd half where they averaged 27 points a game much without OBJ then the D will just need to be average for this team to be pretty good.
OBJ, Vernon, Snacks, Apple - all gone; Eli on his last contract year; much younger team, with mix of vet players from other teams.
There's going to be a lot of growing pains, but it had to happen to get better.
How much progress have we made against the NFC East rivals? Hard to say until the real bullets fly
The guards should be excellent, which is a nice start. If Zeitler or Hernandez gets nicked, things could get ugly quickly.
Still could use upgrades at OT, FS and LB, but we’re OK at those positions, not terrible as in the past. Another offseason of draft and free agency and this team could be set up well for a 3-4 year run at least.
As for 2019, I think we’re more competitive than the last couple years, probably 9-7 or 8-8, in the running for wild card spot.
So much of the future depends on Jones...if he’s the right guy, we’re set. If not, we’re fooked.
I think we should see a better secondary and, because of that, Bettcher will blitz more. I like the way the offensive line is coming together which should help both the running and passing game. In short, I think we'll improve to some degree on both sides of the ball. The question is to what degree.
Look, the 2019 offseason will be judged on how Daniel Jones performs. The early returns is he looks like he belongs. He doesn't seem overwhelmed at all (even the usually terse Shurmur has been singing his praises). He doesn't have a "weak" arm and has been firing the ball DOWN the field all offseason.
Also, the Giants had their pick of the litter with the corners and Deandre Baker appears to be the real deal.
He is yet to take a single snap at Center this spring.
It is hard to beat the 2016 defense, which had a very good d-line. LBs figure to be better in 2019. Jenkins, Cromartie and Collins were at the top of their game, but Apple and Adams were JAGs. 2019 DBs have the potential to be just as good.
Special teams and depth should be better in 2019.
8 to 10 wins for this optimist.
Barring injury, Oline will be at least average, should result in a very good year for 26, less sacks.
My concern is the D. That's a LOT of new pieces. How will they gel? Pass rush will certainly suck, now look built to create and give up a lot of 3rd and longs.
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Still thinking we’re running 4th in the East.
Nothing has changed?? The Giants may or may not run 4th again in the division, but nothing has changed? Seriously?
Right now it's all on paper, but how can you say we are worse than the Redskins? IMO We are better at RB, WR, OL, TE and equal at QB. We had better STs last year. We are better on the DL, worse at LB (but Skins have a key injury), and its a toss up at Safety. We have the better owner/organization and coaching is a wash IMO.
Year 2 is about developing Eli's successor and building a roster foundation on additional rookie contracts and conservative FA signings. There are still missing pieces (deep threat WR, reliable RT, IDL depth, LB playmakers), but the offense in its second year under Shurmur should be able to score points and the defense, in particular the secondary, has the potential to be better. I like Bettcher and think once he gets a few more "custom" pieces, the defense is going to be special. Special Teams appears to be solid.
I think 2019 will be a struggle, but I like the foundational pieces that have been put in place. As others have stated, I think 2020 is when the team is in prime position to lift off.
The guards should be excellent, which is a nice start. If Zeitler or Hernandez gets nicked, things could get ugly quickly.
That all fair enough BBB but I just don’t have those reservations. Remember, Barkley was the #2 back in the league in rushing behind one of the three(?) worst OLs in the league last year. This line is probably a couple levels better than that at its worst. The improvements at DL and DB are real and I think we’ll find that Golden and Cater are pretty darn good pass rushers as well.
I'm expecting about 8 wins and a transition to Jones sometime after midseason but there's a chance things click a little earlier than expected too.
The 2016 model Carson Palmer was a pretty good facsimile of what I expect from the 2019 Eli Manning too - some brutal missed throws, standing in the pocket waiting for a receiver to uncover when a running lane my grandma could have gained 10 yards through stared him in the face...
What came off the most clearly to me was how important the whole group of DBs are in JB's defense. And since you can't really say shit about LOS play after 6, 10, or even 20 completely non-contact work outs, that's all I will comment on now.
So far 4/6 of our "new" DBs have had at least mildly glowing reports in these non-contact drill practices - Peppers, Beal, Baker, and finally Ballentine in his very first action coming off a gunshot wound in his tuchus have all had "moments", plays, or more. (In Baker's case, reports that he's more or less always glued to his opponent in off man coverage.) Haven't heard as much about Love or Bethea, but Bethea's job - far more than anything else - is to direct traffic among the DBs. He's like the first samurai recruited by the village rice farmers in Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai, the general-tactician.
Bettcher's D flows from his DBs. I think the Big 3 up front - DT, BJH, DL - are gonna be above competent, and there's a couple of decent back-ups to let them breathe on that DL.
But the key to the whole team - that we have any window into at this point - is the reworked D secondary and I am decidedly optimistic about them post mini-camp to this point.
As Giants fans we should be very aware continuity on the line is paramount -- and with essentially three new starters and the real possibility a few guys will be limited in camp, I don't expect that unit to be well-oiled game 1.
The 2016 model Carson Palmer was a pretty good facsimile of what I expect from the 2019 Eli Manning too - some brutal missed throws, standing in the pocket waiting for a receiver to uncover when a running lane my grandma could have gained 10 yards through stared him in the face...
What came off the most clearly to me was how important the whole group of DBs are in JB's defense. And since you can't really say shit about LOS play after 6, 10, or even 20 completely non-contact work outs, that's all I will comment on now.
So far 4/6 of our "new" DBs have had at least mildly glowing reports in these non-contact drill practices - Peppers, Beal, Baker, and finally Ballentine in his very first action coming off a gunshot wound in his tuchus have all had "moments", plays, or more. (In Baker's case, reports that he's more or less always glued to his opponent in off man coverage.) Haven't heard as much about Love or Bethea, but Bethea's job - far more than anything else - is to direct traffic among the DBs. He's like the first samurai recruited by the village rice farmers in Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai, the general-tactician.
Bettcher's D flows from his DBs. I think the Big 3 up front - DT, BJH, DL - are gonna be above competent, and there's a couple of decent back-ups to let them breathe on that DL.
But the key to the whole team - that we have any window into at this point - is the reworked D secondary and I am decidedly optimistic about them post mini-camp to this point.
I watched the same game (it was actually the 2015 season) and agree wholeheartedly with your notes about the secondary. The AZ DBs were fast, hard-hitting and aggressive - the strength of that defense - and, like you, I saw the purpose to the NYG bolstering the secondary with Peppers, Baker, Love and Bethea. Very promising for the future.
Golden and Martin were okay in the same game, and if the entire front 7 can hold its own, the secondary can do the damage.
could go 4 CBs with love and beal in the slots
some how get Golden, Carter and Ximens rushing together
Sprinke some pepper on everything and we can confuse and abuse
Our corps now at DB looks very, very promising, if Bethea hasn't fallen off a cliff at his age.
Rogers looked confused for LOTS of that game.
But long-term I feel better. Early returns on Jones are good and that's the most important. Baker seems to be the real deal and early returns on the WRs White and Slayton appear to be very positive
Can you blame us? The team hasn't been competitive in a long time. I think they're moving in the right direction...finally...but they've still got a long way to go.
As I said earlier, I like the attitude, but that's about it.
I hope I can be more upbeat in September. We'll see.
youth and veterans . We rid the team of some perceived
malcontents . There is no reason to be pessimistic
there was plenty of holes in the roster .
I look forward to seeing Jones play and Barkley run
behind a revamped line .
Were watching the end of the Eli Manning era does he got
one more swan song ? You never know I am not sure
how this all plays out but I am excited to see this team progress and jell together .
Dallas likely the class of the division will be a great
test to open the season . Imagine
opening up with a victory .
The defense will probably start out below average, but by season's end I think they will be a slightly above average unit as corners gain some experience. IMO the trade up for Deandre Baker was a great move. I don't think he ever gets to that lock down CB due to some limitations in athleticism, but he will be a number 1 CB for a long time in this league.
I think if Eli plays well and we stay healthy this team may surprise. I'm just not sure if Eli is the guy anymore though, so I'm thinking 8-8.
Untied in attitude, mind and goal. Very encouraged. The growing pains will be much more on the D side where there is a lot more youth (albeit talented) in key spots.
This offense should hit the ground running,year 2 in Shurmurs system , lots more continuity, and a couple VETERAN upgrades in a key spots.
A few years ago I interviewed Michael Strahan. He talked about how it's a big jump in intensity from preseason to regular season, another jump to regular season in a playoff chase, another jump to the playoffs, and another jump to the Super Bowl. The rookies haven't experienced any of that. There's a learning curve at every stage. We need to be patient with the kids as they grow. We also need to remember that while some guys have an impact right away, as Beckham and LT did, other guys take a while to develop, as Strahan, Amani Toomer and Tiki Barber did. So we need to have some patience with that process, too.
Bill Parcells turned out to be one of the great turnaround guys in NFL history, but he had a terrible first season as head coach and in his second season only went 9-7. And he inherited a better team than Shurmur did. It's not reasonable to think this 2019 team is going to jump to 11 wins. It could happen, but it's not reasonable to expect that. I think 9 wins would be a fantastic step forward.
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Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue around here, and it certainly won't be for the media (particularly where Eli is concerned).
This is a fan site, and people like to come on here to vent. And since that's what fan sites are for, I figure we just live with it. But I think it's good to remind everybody to take a deep breath before calling on this guy to be benches or that guy to be cut or some coach to be fired.
Bill Parcells turned out to be one of the great turnaround guys in NFL history, but he had a terrible first season as head coach and in his second season only went 9-7. And he inherited a better team than Shurmur did. It's not reasonable to think this 2019 team is going to jump to 11 wins. It could happen, but it's not reasonable to expect that. I think 9 wins would be a fantastic step forward.
I hear you. Hell, even Little Bill had only one winning season out of four with the Browns.
But what worries me the most is if things go south fairly quickly, it's not the transition from Eli to DJ because I view that as inevitable, it's the overall effect on a pretty likable group of players. Will failure lead to infighting? Will they have to deal with another coaching change? How patient will John Mara be with Gettleman and Shurmur? Right now I figure the arrow is pointing up for the Giants, but where it's going to be pointing at the end of the season is anybody's guess.
We have one star on the team and that's it.
Overall I get excited with wins not mini-camp reports. Or if there are some stars to watch. The overall excitement this year will be to watch Barkley.
The overall excitement begins when we show we are a contender.
IMO it just shows how fall we've fallen if anyone is "excited" (though "excited" has different meanings for different people.) about mini-camp unless they feel GMEN are a contender (if they did though you'd have to wonder what asylum they've been released from.).
So I can understand "excitement" some have but it's not a definition I would believe in that some use it for. For me -- The excitement imo is to threaten for SB Championships and/or being a consistent winning record team/about to become in the current year. This team is NOT that yet. The 2020 season is the year to possibly see a potential for being a contender.
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In comment 14466920 Klaatu said:
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Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue around here, and it certainly won't be for the media (particularly where Eli is concerned).
This is a fan site, and people like to come on here to vent. And since that's what fan sites are for, I figure we just live with it. But I think it's good to remind everybody to take a deep breath before calling on this guy to be benches or that guy to be cut or some coach to be fired.
Bill Parcells turned out to be one of the great turnaround guys in NFL history, but he had a terrible first season as head coach and in his second season only went 9-7. And he inherited a better team than Shurmur did. It's not reasonable to think this 2019 team is going to jump to 11 wins. It could happen, but it's not reasonable to expect that. I think 9 wins would be a fantastic step forward.
I hear you. Hell, even Little Bill had only one winning season out of four with the Browns.
But what worries me the most is if things go south fairly quickly, it's not the transition from Eli to DJ because I view that as inevitable, it's the overall effect on a pretty likable group of players. Will failure lead to infighting? Will they have to deal with another coaching change? How patient will John Mara be with Gettleman and Shurmur? Right now I figure the arrow is pointing up for the Giants, but where it's going to be pointing at the end of the season is anybody's guess.
If things go south quickly I doubt you see any of that. You'll just see DJ start on a roster with a very young team. We have a lot of players on the roster in their first, second year, and third years and they are just trying to make their mark. The vets we have here are all mature professionals, outside of JJ maybe who's play seems to match wherever the teams is at, but he isn't really a malcontent.
The hot seat starts once Jones (or whoever) is established as the next QB and the team isn't loaded with rookies. Then it's gonna be time to win.
OTAs and minicamp are about learning the offense and defense, it's not a time for evaluating talent. The coaches may be able to tell who is smart and who isn't, who picks up things quickly and who needs to be told the same thing repeatedly, but as fans we can tell nothing from it. We can't even trust the coaches comments on who is smart and who isn't, because...well you can never trust what the coaches says publicly.
So bottomline is I considered the Giants to be the favorite to win the division before mini camp and I still do. Nothing has changed.
But I think that we have a chance at a .500 season this year, and a 10 or 11 win team next year after one more draft and FA period.
OBJ is a special talent who can account for a few wins almost by himself, but only when healthy. Instead we hopefully have our QB of the future, as well as a partially rebuilt defense and OL.
Great take. Bravo.
No better than 7 wins unless the defense gets surprisingly good much sooner than I expect.
June is the time to be happy about our Giants' progress. If DJ proves to be the goods, and the rest of the recent draft proves out, DG will deserve more than a few apologies from BBI. It will take some time.
Ill add that we can feel very good about Jones. Regardless of what some suggest, looking good at practice is still looking good.
I'm not a pro coach, But I am a high school coach. What you see on the practice field can translate to the game field...good or bad.
Apparently hes picking up the play book and making the right reads. He played at Duke, we already know that he can withstand the bullets... He didn't have choice.
^ This
Interestingly, he was a scout for those very good Bills teams in the late 80's and early 90's. He then was a scout for those great Denver teams in the late 90's.
Well the physical Giants to care of the Bill in 1990 and Denver and Elway finally got over the hump when they became a dominate run ball control team so I do believe Dave certainly sees what wins.
I expect a tough, spirited effort from our guys. Yes we are young but there is a nice blend of veterans. If Eli plays well then I expect they challenge for the division provided they have reasonable health. I also expect us to be strong on both lines for the first time in a long time.
Barkley is the beat back in the NFL since Sanders and now has a top tier RG and no matter what the RT should be better...Wheeler or Remmers.
The so called "cancer" is gone
They might have found a diamond in the rough with there CB heavy draft.
People seem to forget Bettcher D replies on DB more then pass rushers .
I expect the d to be much better.
I could see us winning 10 plus games
(Please ignore spelling and or grammar... JD is a friend of mine)
It's interesting, but nothing more.