Post mini camp, how are you feeling about the 2019 Giants?

Didn’t learn anything new because it was just mini camp.

Can't dwell on past decisions. I gotta hope DG knows what he's doing & Jones is the real deal. Time will tell. But at least we have a QB of the future & we'll see if he's The Man.

40th year in a row that I've been overly optimistic after mini camp.....but THIS year is the one!

Still thinking we’re running 4th in the East.

But it wasn’t a good thing that’s for sure. The only player I was sad to see moved was Collins, to an extent. But he’s replaceable and with peppers in the fold it made even more sense to move on.

The giants have done well when they zeroed in on the draft like they have here the last two years. Not only did they draft with smart intentions they are giving these picks every opportunity to succeed.

I like where they sit right now as a franchise. I’m not crazy about shurmur but I don’t think he’s bad either. What I do love is shurmur’s qb development skills.

We’re in a good spot. The team is better and younger than last year and miles ahead of where it was mid 2017 when it was rock bottom.

Thoughts of Barkley make me happy. Thoughts of Jones being the goods make me giddy. Let’s be honest it’s going to be fun to remind the millions of morons that went ape shit on draft night. Almost seems that the angrier the draft backlash is the more likely that player laughs last. Jones will too.

But confirmed.

Very little concern for the offense. Shurmur knows O and has plenty of weapons at his disposal (despite the loss of OBJ) and finally the semblance of an offensive line.

The year we lost Tiki who arguably was right at the same impact level for the offense that OBJ was between his running and receiving ability. Guess what we won the Super Bowl. The next year after losing Shockey? Same thing. Not saying Super Bowl win or anything like that but just not to overestimate the loss of one player if you still have built a good overall unit without him

I'll let you know when they play real football, you know, with blocking and tackling and stuff.

But the buzz on jones is encouraging. If he was struggling it would be slightly concerning but more just really annoying. He’s got a lot of talent and we are now hearing about it. This is a good thing.

As crazy as it sounds I think people really are sleeping on Barkley and the impact he’s going to have on wins and losses. Last year it was just about his talents and skills but the team wasn’t ready to win yet, especially early on in the year. 2019 should be different. Barkley is going be a winning player soon. He’s too good not to be.

Lots of young people have to really step up for meaningful football.

Hoping the OL is good so that Eli and Saquon can do some magic.

I think the WRs will be a problem this year and that we will have real issues converting on 3rd and long.

I think Eli will have a down year on stats but more wins.

In comment 14466660 The_Boss said:

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Still thinking we’re running 4th in the East.

Nothing has changed?? The Giants may or may not run 4th again in the division, but nothing has changed? Seriously?

In comment 14466665 Gman11 said:

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I'll let you know when they play real football, you know, with blocking and tackling and stuff.

Agreed. You can't really tell anything one way or another until the pads come on and the hitting starts.

I like the attitude shown, of course, the fact that everybody's there and the mood seems upbeat, but none of the questions surrounding this team will be answered in June.

I still don't expect the team to be good. But I think they will be interesting, which is a nice change from "Throw it to Beckham and hope for the best, then go get a sandwich while the defense is on the field."

I think the the rebuilt OL will give us the kind of dominant running game that Dallas has shown almost an entire team can be built around. Defenses will have to overcommit to stop it and a better passing game will follow. Better offense means less time on the field for the defense that along with improved DL and DB will provide a tipping point for the team’s chances. Our ST are already very good. I know, cool story, right?

2nd year in system for many and a lot of veteran experience in the group.

The D on the other hand has been restocked with a TON of promising talent but much of it is still very young and unproven. You have the 'lead dogs' that DG spoke about in each unit but still a lot of youth that will need to grow up quick. However in theory the skillsets assembled better match what Bettcher is trying to do and that in itself will pay dividends. Just how quickly the youth matures will be key for just how good the D will be.

But if the offense performs like they did 2nd half where they averaged 27 points a game much without OBJ then the D will just need to be average for this team to be pretty good.

Excited for training camp. Can't wait to see our new toys. It's not all about wins and losses.

OBJ, Vernon, Snacks, Apple - all gone; Eli on his last contract year; much younger team, with mix of vet players from other teams.

There's going to be a lot of growing pains, but it had to happen to get better.

We have turned the corner and are heading in the right direction.

How much progress have we made against the NFC East rivals? Hard to say until the real bullets fly

Even in the best of circumstances, units need time together to build trust and chemistry. Most of these guys have never played together. Both tackles are older and coming off surgery. There are multiple options at center, and none look particularly good. So it seems like a lot to ask for the line to excel, especially early in the season.

The guards should be excellent, which is a nice start. If Zeitler or Hernandez gets nicked, things could get ugly quickly.

Another year of development by the young core we’re building, Jones ready to take over as our QB, Saquon in his prime.

Still could use upgrades at OT, FS and LB, but we’re OK at those positions, not terrible as in the past. Another offseason of draft and free agency and this team could be set up well for a 3-4 year run at least.

As for 2019, I think we’re more competitive than the last couple years, probably 9-7 or 8-8, in the running for wild card spot.

So much of the future depends on Jones...if he’s the right guy, we’re set. If not, we’re fooked.

Not technically true, since Halapio and Pulley both got some time with Solder and Hernandez last year. Still, we're a long way from knowing how they will coalesce as a unit.

Hopefully better than last year or at the least no worse. Because I don't think Jones plays until they are out of playoff contention and I don't know if he'd make a difference anyway in his rookie year. Is our OLine improved enough? It looks like they are on paper but as the Redskins know paper championships don't win Super Bowls. And is our defense improved? See my answer to OLine. So I'm cautiously optomistic.

skeptical about the glowing reports on late round draft picks and rookie free agents. I start to pay semi-serious attention during pre-season and serious attention in September.

I think we should see a better secondary and, because of that, Bettcher will blitz more. I like the way the offensive line is coming together which should help both the running and passing game. In short, I think we'll improve to some degree on both sides of the ball. The question is to what degree.

Much better.

Look, the 2019 offseason will be judged on how Daniel Jones performs. The early returns is he looks like he belongs. He doesn't seem overwhelmed at all (even the usually terse Shurmur has been singing his praises). He doesn't have a "weak" arm and has been firing the ball DOWN the field all offseason.

Also, the Giants had their pick of the litter with the corners and Deandre Baker appears to be the real deal.

but its probably time to list Evan Brown as a RG.

He is yet to take a single snap at Center this spring.

Except for the loss of Beckham, this offense is much improved on o-line and TE. Shepard, Tate and Engram should be more effective in Shurmur’s offense than the receiver group in 2016. And now Barkley is in his second year.

It is hard to beat the 2016 defense, which had a very good d-line. LBs figure to be better in 2019. Jenkins, Cromartie and Collins were at the top of their game, but Apple and Adams were JAGs. 2019 DBs have the potential to be just as good.

Special teams and depth should be better in 2019.

8 to 10 wins for this optimist.

...than in any June since 12'.

Barring injury, Oline will be at least average, should result in a very good year for 26, less sacks.

My concern is the D. That's a LOT of new pieces. How will they gel? Pass rush will certainly suck, now look built to create and give up a lot of 3rd and longs.

In comment 14466669 Johnny5 said:

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In comment 14466660 The_Boss said: Quote: Still thinking we’re running 4th in the East. Nothing has changed?? The Giants may or may not run 4th again in the division, but nothing has changed? Seriously?

Right now it's all on paper, but how can you say we are worse than the Redskins? IMO We are better at RB, WR, OL, TE and equal at QB. We had better STs last year. We are better on the DL, worse at LB (but Skins have a key injury), and its a toss up at Safety. We have the better owner/organization and coaching is a wash IMO.

I think the team has begun Year 2 of the 3 year plan on point. Year 1 was about dispatching problems, both real and potential, trading high dollar contracts for low dollar ones, and creating future cap space for FA and extension flexibility.

Year 2 is about developing Eli's successor and building a roster foundation on additional rookie contracts and conservative FA signings. There are still missing pieces (deep threat WR, reliable RT, IDL depth, LB playmakers), but the offense in its second year under Shurmur should be able to score points and the defense, in particular the secondary, has the potential to be better. I like Bettcher and think once he gets a few more "custom" pieces, the defense is going to be special. Special Teams appears to be solid.

I think 2019 will be a struggle, but I like the foundational pieces that have been put in place. As others have stated, I think 2020 is when the team is in prime position to lift off.

In comment 14466689 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Even in the best of circumstances, units need time together to build trust and chemistry. Most of these guys have never played together. Both tackles are older and coming off surgery. There are multiple options at center, and none look particularly good. So it seems like a lot to ask for the line to excel, especially early in the season. The guards should be excellent, which is a nice start. If Zeitler or Hernandez gets nicked, things could get ugly quickly.

That all fair enough BBB but I just don’t have those reservations. Remember, Barkley was the #2 back in the league in rushing behind one of the three(?) worst OLs in the league last year. This line is probably a couple levels better than that at its worst. The improvements at DL and DB are real and I think we’ll find that Golden and Cater are pretty darn good pass rushers as well.

I think this is going to be a big step forward from last year and with the easy schedule one of those years that could be a surprise 10 win season.

I'm expecting about 8 wins and a transition to Jones sometime after midseason but there's a chance things click a little earlier than expected too.

Rewatched some of the 2016 playoff matchup between Green Bay and Bettcher's Az Cardinals, and given Rogers' severly diminished WR/TE toolbox that game game, it was a surprisingly close battle. Of course, the refs negating a pick six by Patrick Peterson that would have put the Cards up 14 - 0 helped GB immensely. There must be a slush fund for NFL officials in some bank account in GB...

The 2016 model Carson Palmer was a pretty good facsimile of what I expect from the 2019 Eli Manning too - some brutal missed throws, standing in the pocket waiting for a receiver to uncover when a running lane my grandma could have gained 10 yards through stared him in the face...

What came off the most clearly to me was how important the whole group of DBs are in JB's defense. And since you can't really say shit about LOS play after 6, 10, or even 20 completely non-contact work outs, that's all I will comment on now.

So far 4/6 of our "new" DBs have had at least mildly glowing reports in these non-contact drill practices - Peppers, Beal, Baker, and finally Ballentine in his very first action coming off a gunshot wound in his tuchus have all had "moments", plays, or more. (In Baker's case, reports that he's more or less always glued to his opponent in off man coverage.) Haven't heard as much about Love or Bethea, but Bethea's job - far more than anything else - is to direct traffic among the DBs. He's like the first samurai recruited by the village rice farmers in Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai, the general-tactician.

Bettcher's D flows from his DBs. I think the Big 3 up front - DT, BJH, DL - are gonna be above competent, and there's a couple of decent back-ups to let them breathe on that DL.

But the key to the whole team - that we have any window into at this point - is the reworked D secondary and I am decidedly optimistic about them post mini-camp to this point.

Based on Solder's comments about his health and readiness for camp, Remmers' health, and the uncertainty at center, I'll be very patient when it comes to the offensive line.

As Giants fans we should be very aware continuity on the line is paramount -- and with essentially three new starters and the real possibility a few guys will be limited in camp, I don't expect that unit to be well-oiled game 1.

In comment 14466748 BlueLou'sBack said:

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Rewatched some of the 2016 playoff matchup between Green Bay and Bettcher's Az Cardinals, and given Rogers' severly diminished WR/TE toolbox that game game, it was a surprisingly close battle. Of course, the refs negating a pick six by Patrick Peterson that would have put the Cards up 14 - 0 helped GB immensely. There must be a slush fund for NFL officials in some bank account in GB... The 2016 model Carson Palmer was a pretty good facsimile of what I expect from the 2019 Eli Manning too - some brutal missed throws, standing in the pocket waiting for a receiver to uncover when a running lane my grandma could have gained 10 yards through stared him in the face... What came off the most clearly to me was how important the whole group of DBs are in JB's defense. And since you can't really say shit about LOS play after 6, 10, or even 20 completely non-contact work outs, that's all I will comment on now. So far 4/6 of our "new" DBs have had at least mildly glowing reports in these non-contact drill practices - Peppers, Beal, Baker, and finally Ballentine in his very first action coming off a gunshot wound in his tuchus have all had "moments", plays, or more. (In Baker's case, reports that he's more or less always glued to his opponent in off man coverage.) Haven't heard as much about Love or Bethea, but Bethea's job - far more than anything else - is to direct traffic among the DBs. He's like the first samurai recruited by the village rice farmers in Kurosawa's The Seven Samurai, the general-tactician. Bettcher's D flows from his DBs. I think the Big 3 up front - DT, BJH, DL - are gonna be above competent, and there's a couple of decent back-ups to let them breathe on that DL. But the key to the whole team - that we have any window into at this point - is the reworked D secondary and I am decidedly optimistic about them post mini-camp to this point.

I watched the same game (it was actually the 2015 season) and agree wholeheartedly with your notes about the secondary. The AZ DBs were fast, hard-hitting and aggressive - the strength of that defense - and, like you, I saw the purpose to the NYG bolstering the secondary with Peppers, Baker, Love and Bethea. Very promising for the future.

Golden and Martin were okay in the same game, and if the entire front 7 can hold its own, the secondary can do the damage.

the packages we use on D. still a lack of pass rush but there is a good 20 some players who could see snaps on D when everyone is healthy.

could go 4 CBs with love and beal in the slots

some how get Golden, Carter and Ximens rushing together

Sprinke some pepper on everything and we can confuse and abuse

In comment 14466655 Mike from Ohio said:

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Didn’t learn anything new because it was just mini camp.

. Exactly. Wait and see.

i kept looking for some great play by Golden, and honestly didn't see it. I admit I didn't watch the whole game and also was on the phone part of the time. But those DBs jumped off the screen. Peterson is a lock down guy obviously but how they 'covered up' for their weak points, and how well Bucannon tackled and just was all over the field...

Our corps now at DB looks very, very promising, if Bethea hasn't fallen off a cliff at his age.

Rogers looked confused for LOTS of that game.

how Eli's arm has fallen off a cliff. And we already know Daniel Jones has a weak arm so not sure where Shurmur is going to turn to in order to pass the ball downfield...

cowturds.

I feel the same on the 2019 giants as I did before. I think they will be a 4-6 win team.

But long-term I feel better. Early returns on Jones are good and that's the most important. Baker seems to be the real deal and early returns on the WRs White and Slayton appear to be very positive

I do not think our oline improved by replacing a bunch of bums with other street bums and the magical power of gelling, teams started playing more passive two gapping to prevent long SB runs. This should continue.

like we have a bunch of beaten down Giants fans.

In comment 14466858 Eric from BBI said:

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like we have a bunch of beaten down Giants fans.

Can you blame us? The team hasn't been competitive in a long time. I think they're moving in the right direction...finally...but they've still got a long way to go.

As I said earlier, I like the attitude, but that's about it.

I hope I can be more upbeat in September. We'll see.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I have good feeling about this group. There will be growing pains, but I like the make-up of the squad.

I don't see a "team," yet. I see a collection of players who might make a decent team, but for me it's simply too early to tell. I put very little stock in what happens in OTA's and mini-camps. I just hope no one gets hurt.

The roster has been overhauled we have a good mix of
youth and veterans . We rid the team of some perceived
malcontents . There is no reason to be pessimistic
there was plenty of holes in the roster .
I look forward to seeing Jones play and Barkley run
behind a revamped line .
Were watching the end of the Eli Manning era does he got
one more swan song ? You never know I am not sure
how this all plays out but I am excited to see this team progress and jell together .
Dallas likely the class of the division will be a great
test to open the season . Imagine
opening up with a victory .

If the offensive line can stay healthy we have the pieces in place to be very good. The big question mark for me is the type of play we can get out of Eli at this point.

The defense will probably start out below average, but by season's end I think they will be a slightly above average unit as corners gain some experience. IMO the trade up for Deandre Baker was a great move. I don't think he ever gets to that lock down CB due to some limitations in athleticism, but he will be a number 1 CB for a long time in this league.

I think if Eli plays well and we stay healthy this team may surprise. I'm just not sure if Eli is the guy anymore though, so I'm thinking 8-8.

In comment 14466864 Eric from BBI said:

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Perhaps I'm being naive, but I have good feeling about this group. There will be growing pains, but I like the make-up of the squad.

Untied in attitude, mind and goal. Very encouraged. The growing pains will be much more on the D side where there is a lot more youth (albeit talented) in key spots.

This offense should hit the ground running,year 2 in Shurmurs system , lots more continuity, and a couple VETERAN upgrades in a key spots.

I think they're a year away from really making some noise. I also think we fans should be prepared for a very rocky start to the season, especially if Jones is playing a lot. This is a young group, and the roster's going to have a lot of rookies. They will be learning on the job.

A few years ago I interviewed Michael Strahan. He talked about how it's a big jump in intensity from preseason to regular season, another jump to regular season in a playoff chase, another jump to the playoffs, and another jump to the Super Bowl. The rookies haven't experienced any of that. There's a learning curve at every stage. We need to be patient with the kids as they grow. We also need to remember that while some guys have an impact right away, as Beckham and LT did, other guys take a while to develop, as Strahan, Amani Toomer and Tiki Barber did. So we need to have some patience with that process, too.

Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue around here, and it certainly won't be for the media (particularly where Eli is concerned).

In comment 14466920 Klaatu said:

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Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue around here, and it certainly won't be for the media (particularly where Eli is concerned).

This is a fan site, and people like to come on here to vent. And since that's what fan sites are for, I figure we just live with it. But I think it's good to remind everybody to take a deep breath before calling on this guy to be benches or that guy to be cut or some coach to be fired.

Bill Parcells turned out to be one of the great turnaround guys in NFL history, but he had a terrible first season as head coach and in his second season only went 9-7. And he inherited a better team than Shurmur did. It's not reasonable to think this 2019 team is going to jump to 11 wins. It could happen, but it's not reasonable to expect that. I think 9 wins would be a fantastic step forward.