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How Daniel Jones is performing is underappreciated

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 10:32 am
Most Giants fans hated the pick of Daniel Jones at #6. Many said it was an outright disastrous selection.

You can poo-poo OTAs and mini-camps all you want, but Daniel Jones has not been overwhelmed by any of it. In fact, if you compare the early reviews on him vis a vis Eli Manning in 2004, Daniel Jones has performed far better thus far.

Daniel Jones may or may not end up being a good QB, but as of mid-June, he has not disappointed at all.

And this is HUGELY positive when you consider the possible alternative (i.e., him looking like a train wreck).

Oddly, the media and fans don't seem to be appreciating the fact that so far, so good.

*********

Quote:
According to Giants tight end Evan Engram, who was a spectator for all three practices, Jones is also becoming more confident by the day.

“You can see him getting confident," Engram said Saturday night at the Landon Collins Charity Softball Game. "Anytime you’re coming in as a rookie, you’re going to be a little shaky or a little nervous. You kind of see him starting to brush that off, get into his groove and take advantage of everything he’s given.”

Throughout last week’s practices, Jones seemed to quickly go through his progressions, get rid of the football accurately while displaying better than expected arm-strength and deep ball accuracy.

Jones says that procession information quickly and going through his progressions is what he feels he’s improved on the most since being chosen No. 6 overall in the NFL Draft and has helped spawn his new found confidence.

“I think just thinking quicker," Jones said. "That’s the challenge for young guys to be able of react and just play. It’s about thinking as quick as you can and making the right decision as quick as you can. I’m just working on that.

...

Where some rookie quarterbacks would have a tendency to hold onto the football too long in the pocket, or force the ball into their first read, Jones has already shown an ability to read a defense and make the right throws. That hasn’t gone unnoticed by head coach Pat Shurmur.

“His head is swimming much less than most rookies for a couple reasons,” Shurmur said last week. "He’s very smart, he was coached extremely well in college, he’s been around it. He’s been coached by one of the best in college.

“He understands the process. Again, we call it a cat, they call it a dog, it doesn’t matter. He’s been around the process enough to know. (He’s) very perceptive, he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.”

As impressive as Jones has looked, and he already seems to belong on the field as a competent NFL quarterback, he still has a long way to go before realistically having a chance to supplant veteran Eli Manning as the starting quarterback.

In the meant time, Jones says he’s striving for continuously making progress in practice.

“I think I improved every day [during minicamp]," Jones said. "That’s the goal. I did some things better, did some things not as good, it’s about me being consistent, and I’m learning a lot. Trying to learn as much as I can.”


Why Giants’ Daniel Jones is brimming with confidence after strong spring - ( New Window )
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RE: Sixth Pick Has To Be Top Ten in League In Time  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14467422 Breaker said:
Quote:
In comment 14467414 giantstock said:


Quote:


Whether it be 2019 or 2020 or 2021 etc.

I don't care about any early hype. Why should I?

Let-s face it-- tow of the experts on this board (SY and David Te) weren't impressed with Jones. The guy I most value is Greg Cosell and he had rated Jones 4th and didn't believe any of the 4 QB's described a top 6 pick.

And many on here respect Gil Brandt a ton - so this year he had Allen, Oliver (Who I liked as the the 6th pick) and Sweat all rated ahead of Jones as the 6th pick. He had Jones 17 and yet last year he had Rosen 2nd overall.

I'm supposed to throw all this away because of summer hype? Why bother even having SY or David TE then - especially if others whom you value also feel in some manner what you feel?

And how often have we heard of hype only to get a major letdown? What's the last line in the below article?

"Eli Apple is going to be a stud."

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/07/new-york-giants-eli-apple-glimpse-into-future/

***There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but hopeful. I'm hopeful. I just never have liked "rah rah cheerleading" and I'm not saying this thread is that. NOT AT ALL. You see something you love in him. GREAT!!! Just saying for me I want to see wins. Hey if Jones turns out to be the 28th rated QB and yet the GMEN still win multiple SB's with him because he plays solid in the playoffs -- I'll be thrilled with Jones because winning is all that matters.





Noooo-- it doesn't. Who gives a shit as long as we win Super Bowls?

What;s more important winning? Or where you were picked?

This also goes for those that are so freaking emotional for those of us who think the Jones pick was a bad move. They seem to think we need to either"apologize" or "admit" to "being wrong." That's a crock of shit.

Winning is what matters. Getting your panties twisted over predictions made and what the media said prior while in the moment your team is winning is just so idiotic. IMO you should be more interested in what the team needs to do to be better for that next year rather than worry about what a poster r media person said two years ago etc.

I'm the 1st to admit I hate DG. And imo he has made awful moves that someone more competent I feel could have done better. I despise his way, his arrogance and his lying etc. But if he wins-- my hate will turn - and I'll call him "colorful." A "colorful winner." Would it matter years prior I hated the guy as I watch our team win Super Bowl(s)? Not one bit. Winning is all that matters.
Everything to this point is meaningless  
since1925 : 6/9/2019 1:14 pm : link
I would like to see Jones do well. But he is a third round talent we picked at #6 overall. No amount of good reads and throws in shorts will change that.
Carson Wentz forced the Eagles hand during camp in his rookie year  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/9/2019 1:15 pm : link
Remember the plan was for Sam Bradford to start, but he was performing so well in camp that they shipped him outta town for premium draft picks even after Wentz had a poor preseason game, the only he played. He ended up with poor season, but you could tell he had big time potential. Similar to where Sam Darnold is now. Wentz lit up the preseason in his second year and became one of the best QBs in the NFL when healthy.

Our situation is a little bit different, but you never know until the real bullets fly. Unless DJ absolutely lights it up during the preseason and live scrimmages (can't remember the last time a rookie lit up a preseason) it is hard to imagine him starting.

You don't go into a season tanking it before the season even starts. Eli is a mostly known commodity at this point. He can effectively be a game manager. With the improved offensive line, will his immobility absolutely kill his game still? We'll find that out this year, but I'm all for giving Eli his opportunity to start the season to win games and play well, but as soon as one of those things isn't happening it will be time for DJ if he is ready.
So far Jones has performed very well in all aspects  
TMS : 6/9/2019 1:15 pm : link
by most accounts. Perfect stuff for our future QB to have demonstrated. Hope the urge to have him replace ELI too soon, does not break the team apart if we falter early next season.
Most sports fans criticize loudly...  
Racer : 6/9/2019 1:22 pm : link
...and praise softly.

Praising loudly for anything other than a 'W' on the schedule is also generally perceived by the LCD as weakness.
Its true, it’s better he looks good now than look terrible.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/9/2019 1:27 pm : link
Has anyone heard of anyone looking terrible at this point?

The other Debbie Downer point may be that Jones is simply a high floor guy and he looks advanced here because of Cutcliffe.

Who knows but yes, it’s better he look good now than look bad.
It's moronic because most your assumptions aren't based on truths.  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 1:33 pm : link
Let's examine them one by one:

1) Giants won't win an SB with Eli at QB in 2019 - OK 1st assumption is good.
2) Starting experience a QB's rookie year is crucial - Um NO.
Of the top 4 QBs in the NFL today, arguably: (Mahomes, Brady, Brees and Rogers) NOT ONE OF THEM STARTED AS A ROOKIE. IE, you simply made your assumption up out of thin air, it's unfounded. And you can dig through NFL history to corroborate that if you like. Not to mention examples of QBs who started as rookies who were likely damaged by the experience, like David Carr.
3) Eli is decrepit. Well, this is belied by the fact he had one of his best statistical years ever last year, in his 1st year under PS. IMO he's likely to improve on that year 2 especially if the OL performs better. So wrong again.
4) The Giants are "wasting" DJ8's salary cap year. Well, if the team isn't going to the superbowl regardless of whether Eli or DJ is at QB, how does the salary cap savings (that theoretically allows the Giants to purchase a better FA or two) really matter? Not much, bad assumption #4.
5) Eli is the designated starter based on some payback for "services rendered." Really? I doubt PS sees it that way at all. He's the designated starter because at this point they think Eli will outperform DJ8. Bad assumption #4 out of 5.

Whatever, if your assumptions are correct, it's not a moronic position. Show me (Lord knows I'm not asking for proof) how your assumptions are valid.

I was surprised that DG went QB, but liked Jones  
George from PA : 6/9/2019 1:42 pm : link
Liked even better, when we got Dexter Lawrence and Baker......if balance of draft continues to impress....entire draft looks great.

So far, so good with Daniel.
It’s pretty simple for me  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/9/2019 1:51 pm : link
It’s didnt want to pass up a star position player for an Andy Dalton. No one knows how that will play out. After passing on Allen which was an obvious need I wasn't too happy. But I do agree the kid by all accounts looks legit.

The three first ballot HOF QBs of Rodgers Brady and Brees were all passed by by almost ever team. Let’s not pretend this is some exact science. Jones may be a HOF Guy Or not. But most people just won’t admit they weren’t wrong.

Me I’m happy as hell he looks legit.
It’s good news that he’s a quick learnet  
Les in TO : 6/9/2019 2:11 pm : link
Look forward to seeing him in the preseason
It's good that Jones has been impressive in OTAs and minicamp.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/9/2019 2:15 pm : link
But I remember Jonas Seawright being called something like "virtually unblock able."

All signs are positive so far but it's very, very early.
I still  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 2:31 pm : link
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."
Of course it matters but  
Jimmy Googs : 6/9/2019 2:40 pm : link
as a building block. There will be many...
RE: I still  
BestFeature : 6/9/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."


We have people more invested in being right than the Giants doing well, so they'll make excuses to fever their original opinions.
RE: RE: I still  
BestFeature : 6/9/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14467509 BestFeature said:
Quote:
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."



We have people more invested in being right than the Giants doing well, so they'll make excuses to fever their original opinions.


Fever=defend
Anybody still upset about Jones being picked at #6,  
MOOPS : 6/9/2019 2:50 pm : link
get over it. He wasn't going to be there at 17.
So far there's not one thing to dislike about Jones. Every surprise has been positive.
Way ahead of where most rookie QBs are mentally and physically he's shows a better than average arm, outstanding athletic ability, developing leadership skills and grasp of the playbook.

Really, what's not to like?
I'm on the Jones train.

Both Beckham and Barkley pulled hammies to start camp  
since1925 : 6/9/2019 2:54 pm : link
They showed nothing. Beckham didn't even get on the field until the forth game of the season.

It meant nothing.
RE: I still  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."


It's skepticism based on how badly the team has drafted for YEARS under Reese and Ross, and Reese's own failed pronouncements about players:

R Randle was "NFL ready"
A Robinson was "the JPP of TEs"
J Hosley played "bigger than his size"

Even when guys were good, how short their careers were: Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Boss, Alford, Beatty...

last year looked like the tide turned with Barkley, Hernandez, Hill and Carter - but let's face it the jury is still out on Hill and Carter. They showed promise, yes, but let's wait till year 2 to see if the giants finally hit on a player after round 1 or 2.

It's tough to be optimistic in the face of recent history.

The point isn't that he is performing well at camp. Lots of guys  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/9/2019 3:11 pm : link
do that never pan out. The point is he isn't getting his lunch money stolen. That is usually a bad sign.
RE: I still  
Klaatu : 6/9/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."


I'm happy for all of those things, but I put "his arm," "his accuracy," and "his decision making" in the context of "it's OTA's." He's playing pitch and catch with no pads and no hitting...no pressure coming from the likes of Fletcher Cox or Demarcus Lawrence. I'd be shocked if he didn't look good.

I'd also be shocked if he didn't handle the media well. I'm sure his demeanor was a major factor in the Giants' decision to draft him, and I don't have a problem with how high they did. If they felt that he was worth the #6 pick, who am I to disagree? As with all of their draft picks, I hope they all pan out and justify the team's faith in them.

Jones is doing pretty much what I expected him to do at this point in time (the key phrase being "at this point in time"). But for me it's still very early in the process, and it's not that I don't appreciate him - I just want to see more from him. A lot more.
Eric you are correct and I agree  
Dave on the UWS : 6/9/2019 3:16 pm : link
When Eli came out he was supposed to be the “most NFL ready QB to come along since” Peyton maybe? Anyway, he looked like crap right through training camp, had one game on the regular season (I think against the Ravens where he had a 0.0 QB rating.
If Jones is showing arm strength, accuracy AND evidence things are slowing down for him (as the coach said), then he is WAY ahead of where Eli was at the same point. It would be great if they can go with just 2 QBs this year. They will need the roster spot (for one of the CBs or OL prospects).
RE: RE: Very Glad  
Glover : 6/9/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14467401 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14467380 Glover said:


Quote:


I'm going to have to disagree with your take on Tiki. He really need a few years in an NFL weight room and he started to produce before we drafted Ron Dayne. We drafted a RB because they probably never thought Tiki was going to be a 3 down RB workhorse, a fumbling playmaker that had some injury issues, but he kept adding muscle every year.


Dayne was drafted in 2000, coincidentally, Tiki's first 1000+ yard rushing season, his previous high was his rookie year, with 511 yards. He was a bigger factor as a receiver starting in 99, but his ascension to all pro status started in 2000.
RE: You are 100% correct  
Big Rick in FL : 6/9/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14467368 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
If he were performing disastrously the Twitter sphere and giant fandom would likely have no issue citing it over and over as further proof as to what a horrible selection it was. He plays extremely well and it is immediately minimized as performing in “just shorts”. There was an article written the other day from a writer who observed Jones for 3 days in minicamp and had recent time observing Lamar Jackson and Carson Wentz and said Jones looked better than either at their respective stages of development...and this was from a national writer, not some giants homer.


Then take these statements from Giants best writers:



Quote:



Art Stapleton Verified account
@art_stapleton
19h19 hours ago

He's the best rookie QB that I've covered on the beat already. I've been impressed by his willingness to push the ball downfield in a practice setting.
I think he might be more focused on accuracy and honing that on out routes vs air. Doesn't put a lot of velocity on those yet

Art Stapleton Verified account
@art_stapleton
19h19 hours ago

Daniel Jones' arm strength is certainly not lacking, and this week we got a chance to see just how accurate he is downfield. If minicamp is any indication, he's really, really good.


Patricia Traina:

"(Daniel Jones) has clearly had the most impressive spring of the Giants drafted quarterbacks in the last decade."


I saw an article from Bleacher Report and the writer said he got to see Wentz & Lamar Jackson as Rookies. He said Jones has been much better than both through this point of their career. If he turns out anywhere near Wentz (Minus the injuries) the Giants are in very very good shape.
It’s not about being “under appreciated”  
WillVAB : 6/9/2019 3:24 pm : link
The circumstances simply don’t warrant excitement at this stage in the process.

When teams draft QBs high in the draft there’s usually some bum placeholder for a week or three before the rookie is given the job. Or the rookie is given the job before week 1. In that case, you want to hear positive news early and often because the expectation is to get the rookie in there ASAP.

The Giants aren’t in that position, or at least don’t feel they are. You can agree or disagree but the Giants feel like they can win with Eli.

So basically that locks in Jones timeline to starting as soon as the Giants are out of playoff contention at the earliest and after the season at the latest.

The sense of urgency simply isn’t there under the circumstances so there’s no need to overreact positively or negatively to anything happening right now.
RE: I still  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."


Don't get why it does when we can see even with Eli Apple that everything is wonderful before the games start. Why is this different than what was said per the link I provided previously regarding the hype from Eli Apple? What makes this different? What makes us think this isn't another "Eli Apple building block hype" at corner vs why is Jones the "very good building block" now?

And I don't get the hostility from some (not you. I would think the mods love alternate views) - for those of us that are hopeful with Jones but believe more with what David Te said and believe as SY mentioned, Jones should have been passed on. Are we're just going to completely dismiss their opinion prior to even a preseason game being played?

Please don;t get my post wrong. I know you don't have a problem with other points of view but I think others on here just don't want to hear alternate views. ere is what SY said -- debunk it -- anyone. If you can't-- how can anyone criticize that alternate pov?

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2019/04/24/new-york-giants-2019-nfl-draft-preview-quarterbacks/

"But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me."

We're supposed to disregard this because of summer league hype?
Klaatu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 3:25 pm : link
The NFL graveyard is littered with 1st round QBs who didn't do those things - including early in the spring. And we're talking guys who were much more highly regarded than Jones.

On top of that, Jones was said to lack a "strong" arm. That certainly has not been the case.

Jones is performing better now than the pundits said he would.
Eric. I was among those dumb-struck by the selection of Jones  
Marty in Albany : 6/9/2019 3:43 pm : link
Although a proper evaluation of may not be possible for months or even longer, Jones' performance so far at the OTAs at least gives Giants fans a much better understanding of what the Giants saw in Jones when they drafted him. Right or wrong, his selection was not as insane as it first appeared.

RE: RE: Sixth Pick Has To Be Top Ten in League In Time  
Big Rick in FL : 6/9/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14467457 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14467422 Breaker said:


Quote:


In comment 14467414 giantstock said:


Quote:


Whether it be 2019 or 2020 or 2021 etc.

I don't care about any early hype. Why should I?

Let-s face it-- tow of the experts on this board (SY and David Te) weren't impressed with Jones. The guy I most value is Greg Cosell and he had rated Jones 4th and didn't believe any of the 4 QB's described a top 6 pick.

And many on here respect Gil Brandt a ton - so this year he had Allen, Oliver (Who I liked as the the 6th pick) and Sweat all rated ahead of Jones as the 6th pick. He had Jones 17 and yet last year he had Rosen 2nd overall.

I'm supposed to throw all this away because of summer hype? Why bother even having SY or David TE then - especially if others whom you value also feel in some manner what you feel?

And how often have we heard of hype only to get a major letdown? What's the last line in the below article?

"Eli Apple is going to be a stud."

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/07/new-york-giants-eli-apple-glimpse-into-future/

***There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but hopeful. I'm hopeful. I just never have liked "rah rah cheerleading" and I'm not saying this thread is that. NOT AT ALL. You see something you love in him. GREAT!!! Just saying for me I want to see wins. Hey if Jones turns out to be the 28th rated QB and yet the GMEN still win multiple SB's with him because he plays solid in the playoffs -- I'll be thrilled with Jones because winning is all that matters.







Noooo-- it doesn't. Who gives a shit as long as we win Super Bowls?

What;s more important winning? Or where you were picked?

This also goes for those that are so freaking emotional for those of us who think the Jones pick was a bad move. They seem to think we need to either"apologize" or "admit" to "being wrong." That's a crock of shit.

Winning is what matters. Getting your panties twisted over predictions made and what the media said prior while in the moment your team is winning is just so idiotic. IMO you should be more interested in what the team needs to do to be better for that next year rather than worry about what a poster r media person said two years ago etc.

I'm the 1st to admit I hate DG. And imo he has made awful moves that someone more competent I feel could have done better. I despise his way, his arrogance and his lying etc. But if he wins-- my hate will turn - and I'll call him "colorful." A "colorful winner." Would it matter years prior I hated the guy as I watch our team win Super Bowl(s)? Not one bit. Winning is all that matters.


You hate him? Why? His lying? Should he go out and do press conferences telling other teams what we are planning on doing? What a dumb fucking thing to say.

What awful moves has he really mad? The Omameh & Stewart signing? They were bad. They weren't awful. Very little impact on the team's cap space.

The Giants are in a much better position then they were in December 2017. He's only been around for 2 drafts and we have a lot of young talent. Jones, Saquon, Shepard, Slayton, Coleman, Engram, Hernandez, Halapio, Hill, Tomlinson, Lawrence, Baker, McIntosh, Carter, Oshane, Love, Ballantine, Peppers & Rosas.

They have 65 million in cap space with 54 players under contract for 2020. If they move on from just Jackrabbit, Ellison, Martin & Tanney they are at 85 million in cap space. That money along with another strong draft should put the Giants in position to be contenders for a long time.
This thread is funny  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2019 3:46 pm : link
and it makes me hate being a Giants fan
Jones will get evaluated over time.  
TMS : 6/9/2019 3:48 pm : link
But it is not unlimited. DG knows he has a short time to turn this team around in this town, and league. Good finish last year, but he will feel the heat if we start to lose early this season. Others have done it, now he has to deliver or it could get ugly fast. Hope not.
Eric, do you know what the Pundit Graveyard is littered with?  
Klaatu : 6/9/2019 3:58 pm : link
It's a trick question. There is no Pundit Graveyard, because those guys never have to pay a price for being wrong, and they're wrong all the time. They're very susceptible to "groupthink," even though they all come with their own biases and preconceived notions.

I don't care what the pundits think (or thought) about Jones or any other player. I'd rather put my faith in the guy whose job is on the line, and that certainly isn't any pundit. Until that faith is shown unquestionably to be misplaced, I'll go with the guy(s) making the picks, not their critics.

The Giants drafted Jones in the 1st Round, #6 overall. That's good enough for me...for now. I still want to see the kid perform when his job is on the line. I don't think that's too much to ask for. I'll concede that he's off to a good start, but this race is a marathon, not a sprint.
RE: Eric. I was among those dumb-struck by the selection of Jones  
81_Great_Dane : 6/9/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14467562 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
Although a proper evaluation of may not be possible for months or even longer, Jones' performance so far at the OTAs at least gives Giants fans a much better understanding of what the Giants saw in Jones when they drafted him. Right or wrong, his selection was not as insane as it first appeared.
This is pretty much where I am.

As for the 'he wouldn't have been there at 17" argument. What happened, happened. He was picked where he was picked. It's done. We'll never know the alternative timelines unless Tony Stark takes us all through the Quantum Realm.
These guys  
TommyWiseau : 6/9/2019 4:23 pm : link
Are in shorts and a tshirt. Show me how he is when the pads and a 270 pound pass rusher is in his face. Jonas Seawright lit up mini camp and we all know how that turned out. PS I am a Daniel Jones supporter but lets see how he does in game action
RE: It's moronic because most your assumptions aren't based on truths.  
bw in dc : 6/9/2019 4:40 pm : link
In comment 14467473 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
Let's examine them one by one:

1) Giants won't win an SB with Eli at QB in 2019 - OK 1st assumption is good.
2) Starting experience a QB's rookie year is crucial - Um NO.
Of the top 4 QBs in the NFL today, arguably: (Mahomes, Brady, Brees and Rogers) NOT ONE OF THEM STARTED AS A ROOKIE. IE, you simply made your assumption up out of thin air, it's unfounded. And you can dig through NFL history to corroborate that if you like. Not to mention examples of QBs who started as rookies who were likely damaged by the experience, like David Carr.
3) Eli is decrepit. Well, this is belied by the fact he had one of his best statistical years ever last year, in his 1st year under PS. IMO he's likely to improve on that year 2 especially if the OL performs better. So wrong again.
4) The Giants are "wasting" DJ8's salary cap year. Well, if the team isn't going to the superbowl regardless of whether Eli or DJ is at QB, how does the salary cap savings (that theoretically allows the Giants to purchase a better FA or two) really matter? Not much, bad assumption #4.
5) Eli is the designated starter based on some payback for "services rendered." Really? I doubt PS sees it that way at all. He's the designated starter because at this point they think Eli will outperform DJ8. Bad assumption #4 out of 5.

Whatever, if your assumptions are correct, it's not a moronic position. Show me (Lord knows I'm not asking for proof) how your assumptions are valid.


Is experience a good or bad thing? If it's good, which I presume you know is yes, so why not get it as soon as possible? Forget what the conditions were, has starting from day one worked out for guys like Dak, Peyton, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Wentz, etc? A simple yes or no works for me.

Eli may indeed have a good year. So what? Do you think he still has the good to help us win the biggest prize? What % of NFL players get better at 38 and beyond? I'm just looking at the NFL actuarial tables...

Again, by starting Jones right away you get (1) the vital experience piece and (2) accelerate whether he is going to be a boom or a bust. If (2) is the boom, you get more production sooner at cheaper costs. Pretty basic economics here...

If you don't think Eli isn't getting some preferential treatment somewhere in this organization - very likely Mara - you are more naive than I thought.

It's a new NFL. The game is structured to allow QBs to play sooner because they are more protected and the game is just easier for QBs to play. And the plus side for us is we have a RB like Barkley who should be take at least 400 touches. So why can't Jones hand it off to him 300+ X and dump it off 100+X as well as Eli? When did the hand off get so challenging?
It's really very simple bw...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/9/2019 4:51 pm : link
...if the defense comes together, Eli gives the Giants the best chance to get to the Superbowl.

Glad I coukd help.
RE: It's really very simple bw...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/9/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14467614 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...if the defense comes together, Eli gives the Giants the best chance to get to the Superbowl.

Glad I coukd help.


yeah, super helpful...
The hype has reached ridiculous levels  
Ned In Atlanta : 6/9/2019 5:02 pm : link
I’ll wait until bullets start flying to start doing cartwheels
RE: The hype has reached ridiculous levels  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14467632 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
I’ll wait until bullets start flying to start doing cartwheels


What hype? It's been the opposite of hype. That's my point.

I'm a bit at a loss here.
Well it's been fun arguing with you...  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 5:15 pm : link
"The game is structured to allow QBs to play sooner because they are more protected and the game is just easier for QBs to play."

Actually, the new rules re QB protection have been far more beneficial to older, immobile QBs (Brady, Brees) than to rookies... and the mental part of the game - multiple and complex scheme defenses, sub-package defenses specialized player personnel on both offense and defense - have made the game more difficult than ever for rookies. Your points for the most part are blatantly false.

There's no longer a point to our discussion. Say and believe whatever you like, it's just a fan discussion board.
RE: RE: It's really very simple bw...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/9/2019 5:16 pm : link
In comment 14467628 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14467614 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...if the defense comes together, Eli gives the Giants the best chance to get to the Superbowl.

Glad I coukd help.



yeah, super helpful...

You're welcome - ( New Window )
Blue Lou...  
Klaatu : 6/9/2019 5:19 pm : link
You got bw to make a post without using the phrase, "Jints Central." Talk about progress!!!
RE: Blue Lou...  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14467655 Klaatu said:
Quote:
You got bw to make a post without using the phrase, "Jints Central." Talk about progress!!!


Lulz...
I don't know Klaatu  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/9/2019 5:29 pm : link
your credibility has taken a big hit with this spaghetti sauce thing
Well he’s the 6th pick in the 2019 draft  
ij_reilly : 6/9/2019 5:31 pm : link
He’s supposed to be performing well.

He’s supposed to be pretty much NFL ready.

It’s been 15 years since Eli was drafted.

A QB picked at number 6 today better be ready to start game 1 if Year 2. If not game 1 of year 1.

Big Rick In Fl  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 5:32 pm : link
In regards to his lying – you don’t know if it’s a lie or he’s telling the truth. YOU think he is being Machiavellian I think he’s an idiot that is more-than-likely past his prime. In other words, I think his lying is in part because he isn’t sure what he wants to do. So he scares me shitless because I think he is incompetent. We can agree to disagree but it’s not like I’m calling Bill Bellchick incompetent. I think the current Giant GM is and unfortunately I think it will show each year progressing forward.

What bad moves has he made? His getting Solder was a blunder when he could’ve gotten TWO football players – YOUNG football players for example in Hubbard and Fulton for the price of one again LT by the time the G-men are good he’ll begin to fade.

The money we are spending for Ogletree. Did you see his contract? What type of idiot in a rebuild is going to spend that much on Ogletree? Did you know the ILB Hicks that was on Philly is BOTH YOUNGER (though just 1 year) and BETTER.

Should’ve traded Collins in their rebuild year from last year. Could’ve gotten more.

These are just a few of the moves.

While you “say” they are in a “much better situation than 2017” – I don’t give a shit about your homerism. IMO the bigger question is are they on the right path to being a SB contender? Anyone who says “yes” isn’t basing it on fact – they are basing it on nothing but “hope.” wFAN spoke about that yesterday the difference between Mets fans and Yank fans is that the Yanks know they got someone while Mets fans are about hope. We have no idea what Jones will be. And right now name one all-pro defensive player.

The sad thing is fans like you have been beaten down to accept mediocrity. The team sucked last year. They sucked the year before and we’re projected to win 5-6 games this upcoming year. Nobody knows if Jones is any good and it one big fucking guess on defense. Please stop with the homerism and get a check of reality. We need to see that we are going to be contenders. Being better from Dec 2017 means shit. Being a better team than Dallas and Philly and Wash should mean more to you than cheerleading for better than the disgraceful 2017 season.

You want to cheer they have $65m in cap space. Great. I think another GM could have had more OR could’ve signed better players while picking up better Free Agents than “Mr. Super WR Jordan Tate.” Glad that your homerism is alive and well.
Exciting times  
PaulN : 6/9/2019 5:37 pm : link
Are coming for us true fans. The Giants have sucked of late, but now we get to see a great running back in his second year, behind an improved offensive line, and we are going to get to see the Giants future QB, pre season is going to be exciting this year even. Imagine if the Giants hit it right with Jones and now we have Barkley also. Another player that sounds like he is turning heads is Darius Slayton, with his speed he is also a vital piece to the team, they need 1 legit deep threat. I think Coleman and Latimer can be a part of the receiving corps, and contribute, and they also have speed, but this kid could be a real difference maker.
“Accept mediocrity”  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2019 5:37 pm : link
What does that even mean? Getting mad at a team means you don’t accept it and being optimistic means you do?

Embarrassing.
RE: I don't know Klaatu  
Klaatu : 6/9/2019 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14467659 gidiefor said:
Quote:
your credibility has taken a big hit with this spaghetti sauce thing


At least I had credibility.

Your brains is all in your wallet and your trigger finger. You take away the good-goods, and the shakedown cabbage, and them pistoleros and you're nothin'!
RE: The media and fans  
joeinpa : 6/9/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14467345 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
can be similar in that they are difficult to budge once dug in.

They are also alike in that they form these hard, aggressive, unbreakable opinions based on very little actual information.

Then to compound the issue they feed off of each other.


I love this, so true.

I also loved the Jones pick at 6
Think some have said something similar, but how about this:  
ChaChing : 6/9/2019 5:42 pm : link
It's great he's showing well in every opportunity he's been given so far. Certainly much better than swimming in it, being inaccurate, not making basic plays, or even being injured. Best we could hope to this point. And it would be nice to see him tear up preseason games...

But it still doesn't matter unless it translates to live games

I bet a coaching perspective would sum it up best: encouraged he's showing well so far but there's a ways to go. Just focus on getting better the next play / practice / game. I would say the most encouraging thing is what we expected - DJ already seems to have that type of pro mentality, especially important in NYC

Otherwise this is just a cyclic argument between half full & half empty
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