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According to Giants tight end Evan Engram, who was a spectator for all three practices, Jones is also becoming more confident by the day. “You can see him getting confident," Engram said Saturday night at the Landon Collins Charity Softball Game. "Anytime you’re coming in as a rookie, you’re going to be a little shaky or a little nervous. You kind of see him starting to brush that off, get into his groove and take advantage of everything he’s given.” Throughout last week’s practices, Jones seemed to quickly go through his progressions, get rid of the football accurately while displaying better than expected arm-strength and deep ball accuracy. Jones says that procession information quickly and going through his progressions is what he feels he’s improved on the most since being chosen No. 6 overall in the NFL Draft and has helped spawn his new found confidence. “I think just thinking quicker," Jones said. "That’s the challenge for young guys to be able of react and just play. It’s about thinking as quick as you can and making the right decision as quick as you can. I’m just working on that. ... Where some rookie quarterbacks would have a tendency to hold onto the football too long in the pocket, or force the ball into their first read, Jones has already shown an ability to read a defense and make the right throws. That hasn’t gone unnoticed by head coach Pat Shurmur. “His head is swimming much less than most rookies for a couple reasons,” Shurmur said last week. "He’s very smart, he was coached extremely well in college, he’s been around it. He’s been coached by one of the best in college. “He understands the process. Again, we call it a cat, they call it a dog, it doesn’t matter. He’s been around the process enough to know. (He’s) very perceptive, he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.” As impressive as Jones has looked, and he already seems to belong on the field as a competent NFL quarterback, he still has a long way to go before realistically having a chance to supplant veteran Eli Manning as the starting quarterback. In the meant time, Jones says he’s striving for continuously making progress in practice. “I think I improved every day [during minicamp]," Jones said. "That’s the goal. I did some things better, did some things not as good, it’s about me being consistent, and I’m learning a lot. Trying to learn as much as I can.” |
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Whether it be 2019 or 2020 or 2021 etc.
I don't care about any early hype. Why should I?
Let-s face it-- tow of the experts on this board (SY and David Te) weren't impressed with Jones. The guy I most value is Greg Cosell and he had rated Jones 4th and didn't believe any of the 4 QB's described a top 6 pick.
And many on here respect Gil Brandt a ton - so this year he had Allen, Oliver (Who I liked as the the 6th pick) and Sweat all rated ahead of Jones as the 6th pick. He had Jones 17 and yet last year he had Rosen 2nd overall.
I'm supposed to throw all this away because of summer hype? Why bother even having SY or David TE then - especially if others whom you value also feel in some manner what you feel?
And how often have we heard of hype only to get a major letdown? What's the last line in the below article?
"Eli Apple is going to be a stud."
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/07/new-york-giants-eli-apple-glimpse-into-future/
***There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but hopeful. I'm hopeful. I just never have liked "rah rah cheerleading" and I'm not saying this thread is that. NOT AT ALL. You see something you love in him. GREAT!!! Just saying for me I want to see wins. Hey if Jones turns out to be the 28th rated QB and yet the GMEN still win multiple SB's with him because he plays solid in the playoffs -- I'll be thrilled with Jones because winning is all that matters.
Noooo-- it doesn't. Who gives a shit as long as we win Super Bowls?
What;s more important winning? Or where you were picked?
This also goes for those that are so freaking emotional for those of us who think the Jones pick was a bad move. They seem to think we need to either"apologize" or "admit" to "being wrong." That's a crock of shit.
Winning is what matters. Getting your panties twisted over predictions made and what the media said prior while in the moment your team is winning is just so idiotic. IMO you should be more interested in what the team needs to do to be better for that next year rather than worry about what a poster r media person said two years ago etc.
I'm the 1st to admit I hate DG. And imo he has made awful moves that someone more competent I feel could have done better. I despise his way, his arrogance and his lying etc. But if he wins-- my hate will turn - and I'll call him "colorful." A "colorful winner." Would it matter years prior I hated the guy as I watch our team win Super Bowl(s)? Not one bit. Winning is all that matters.
Our situation is a little bit different, but you never know until the real bullets fly. Unless DJ absolutely lights it up during the preseason and live scrimmages (can't remember the last time a rookie lit up a preseason) it is hard to imagine him starting.
You don't go into a season tanking it before the season even starts. Eli is a mostly known commodity at this point. He can effectively be a game manager. With the improved offensive line, will his immobility absolutely kill his game still? We'll find that out this year, but I'm all for giving Eli his opportunity to start the season to win games and play well, but as soon as one of those things isn't happening it will be time for DJ if he is ready.
Praising loudly for anything other than a 'W' on the schedule is also generally perceived by the LCD as weakness.
The other Debbie Downer point may be that Jones is simply a high floor guy and he looks advanced here because of Cutcliffe.
Who knows but yes, it’s better he look good now than look bad.
1) Giants won't win an SB with Eli at QB in 2019 - OK 1st assumption is good.
2) Starting experience a QB's rookie year is crucial - Um NO.
Of the top 4 QBs in the NFL today, arguably: (Mahomes, Brady, Brees and Rogers) NOT ONE OF THEM STARTED AS A ROOKIE. IE, you simply made your assumption up out of thin air, it's unfounded. And you can dig through NFL history to corroborate that if you like. Not to mention examples of QBs who started as rookies who were likely damaged by the experience, like David Carr.
3) Eli is decrepit. Well, this is belied by the fact he had one of his best statistical years ever last year, in his 1st year under PS. IMO he's likely to improve on that year 2 especially if the OL performs better. So wrong again.
4) The Giants are "wasting" DJ8's salary cap year. Well, if the team isn't going to the superbowl regardless of whether Eli or DJ is at QB, how does the salary cap savings (that theoretically allows the Giants to purchase a better FA or two) really matter? Not much, bad assumption #4.
5) Eli is the designated starter based on some payback for "services rendered." Really? I doubt PS sees it that way at all. He's the designated starter because at this point they think Eli will outperform DJ8. Bad assumption #4 out of 5.
Whatever, if your assumptions are correct, it's not a moronic position. Show me (Lord knows I'm not asking for proof) how your assumptions are valid.
So far, so good with Daniel.
The three first ballot HOF QBs of Rodgers Brady and Brees were all passed by by almost ever team. Let’s not pretend this is some exact science. Jones may be a HOF Guy Or not. But most people just won’t admit they weren’t wrong.
Me I’m happy as hell he looks legit.
All signs are positive so far but it's very, very early.
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
We have people more invested in being right than the Giants doing well, so they'll make excuses to fever their original opinions.
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don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
We have people more invested in being right than the Giants doing well, so they'll make excuses to fever their original opinions.
Fever=defend
So far there's not one thing to dislike about Jones. Every surprise has been positive.
Way ahead of where most rookie QBs are mentally and physically he's shows a better than average arm, outstanding athletic ability, developing leadership skills and grasp of the playbook.
Really, what's not to like?
I'm on the Jones train.
It meant nothing.
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
It's skepticism based on how badly the team has drafted for YEARS under Reese and Ross, and Reese's own failed pronouncements about players:
R Randle was "NFL ready"
A Robinson was "the JPP of TEs"
J Hosley played "bigger than his size"
Even when guys were good, how short their careers were: Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Boss, Alford, Beatty...
last year looked like the tide turned with Barkley, Hernandez, Hill and Carter - but let's face it the jury is still out on Hill and Carter. They showed promise, yes, but let's wait till year 2 to see if the giants finally hit on a player after round 1 or 2.
It's tough to be optimistic in the face of recent history.
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
I'm happy for all of those things, but I put "his arm," "his accuracy," and "his decision making" in the context of "it's OTA's." He's playing pitch and catch with no pads and no hitting...no pressure coming from the likes of Fletcher Cox or Demarcus Lawrence. I'd be shocked if he didn't look good.
I'd also be shocked if he didn't handle the media well. I'm sure his demeanor was a major factor in the Giants' decision to draft him, and I don't have a problem with how high they did. If they felt that he was worth the #6 pick, who am I to disagree? As with all of their draft picks, I hope they all pan out and justify the team's faith in them.
Jones is doing pretty much what I expected him to do at this point in time (the key phrase being "at this point in time"). But for me it's still very early in the process, and it's not that I don't appreciate him - I just want to see more from him. A lot more.
If Jones is showing arm strength, accuracy AND evidence things are slowing down for him (as the coach said), then he is WAY ahead of where Eli was at the same point. It would be great if they can go with just 2 QBs this year. They will need the roster spot (for one of the CBs or OL prospects).
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I'm going to have to disagree with your take on Tiki. He really need a few years in an NFL weight room and he started to produce before we drafted Ron Dayne. We drafted a RB because they probably never thought Tiki was going to be a 3 down RB workhorse, a fumbling playmaker that had some injury issues, but he kept adding muscle every year.
Dayne was drafted in 2000, coincidentally, Tiki's first 1000+ yard rushing season, his previous high was his rookie year, with 511 yards. He was a bigger factor as a receiver starting in 99, but his ascension to all pro status started in 2000.
Then take these statements from Giants best writers:
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Art Stapleton Verified account
@art_stapleton
19h19 hours ago
He's the best rookie QB that I've covered on the beat already. I've been impressed by his willingness to push the ball downfield in a practice setting.
I think he might be more focused on accuracy and honing that on out routes vs air. Doesn't put a lot of velocity on those yet
Art Stapleton Verified account
@art_stapleton
19h19 hours ago
Daniel Jones' arm strength is certainly not lacking, and this week we got a chance to see just how accurate he is downfield. If minicamp is any indication, he's really, really good.
Patricia Traina:
"(Daniel Jones) has clearly had the most impressive spring of the Giants drafted quarterbacks in the last decade."
I saw an article from Bleacher Report and the writer said he got to see Wentz & Lamar Jackson as Rookies. He said Jones has been much better than both through this point of their career. If he turns out anywhere near Wentz (Minus the injuries) the Giants are in very very good shape.
When teams draft QBs high in the draft there’s usually some bum placeholder for a week or three before the rookie is given the job. Or the rookie is given the job before week 1. In that case, you want to hear positive news early and often because the expectation is to get the rookie in there ASAP.
The Giants aren’t in that position, or at least don’t feel they are. You can agree or disagree but the Giants feel like they can win with Eli.
So basically that locks in Jones timeline to starting as soon as the Giants are out of playoff contention at the earliest and after the season at the latest.
The sense of urgency simply isn’t there under the circumstances so there’s no need to overreact positively or negatively to anything happening right now.
Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.
The alternative would also "matter."
Don't get why it does when we can see even with Eli Apple that everything is wonderful before the games start. Why is this different than what was said per the link I provided previously regarding the hype from Eli Apple? What makes this different? What makes us think this isn't another "Eli Apple building block hype" at corner vs why is Jones the "very good building block" now?
And I don't get the hostility from some (not you. I would think the mods love alternate views) - for those of us that are hopeful with Jones but believe more with what David Te said and believe as SY mentioned, Jones should have been passed on. Are we're just going to completely dismiss their opinion prior to even a preseason game being played?
Please don;t get my post wrong. I know you don't have a problem with other points of view but I think others on here just don't want to hear alternate views. ere is what SY said -- debunk it -- anyone. If you can't-- how can anyone criticize that alternate pov?
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2019/04/24/new-york-giants-2019-nfl-draft-preview-quarterbacks/
"But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me."
We're supposed to disregard this because of summer league hype?
On top of that, Jones was said to lack a "strong" arm. That certainly has not been the case.
Jones is performing better now than the pundits said he would.
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In comment 14467414 giantstock said:
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Whether it be 2019 or 2020 or 2021 etc.
I don't care about any early hype. Why should I?
Let-s face it-- tow of the experts on this board (SY and David Te) weren't impressed with Jones. The guy I most value is Greg Cosell and he had rated Jones 4th and didn't believe any of the 4 QB's described a top 6 pick.
And many on here respect Gil Brandt a ton - so this year he had Allen, Oliver (Who I liked as the the 6th pick) and Sweat all rated ahead of Jones as the 6th pick. He had Jones 17 and yet last year he had Rosen 2nd overall.
I'm supposed to throw all this away because of summer hype? Why bother even having SY or David TE then - especially if others whom you value also feel in some manner what you feel?
And how often have we heard of hype only to get a major letdown? What's the last line in the below article?
"Eli Apple is going to be a stud."
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/07/new-york-giants-eli-apple-glimpse-into-future/
***There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but hopeful. I'm hopeful. I just never have liked "rah rah cheerleading" and I'm not saying this thread is that. NOT AT ALL. You see something you love in him. GREAT!!! Just saying for me I want to see wins. Hey if Jones turns out to be the 28th rated QB and yet the GMEN still win multiple SB's with him because he plays solid in the playoffs -- I'll be thrilled with Jones because winning is all that matters.
Noooo-- it doesn't. Who gives a shit as long as we win Super Bowls?
What;s more important winning? Or where you were picked?
This also goes for those that are so freaking emotional for those of us who think the Jones pick was a bad move. They seem to think we need to either"apologize" or "admit" to "being wrong." That's a crock of shit.
Winning is what matters. Getting your panties twisted over predictions made and what the media said prior while in the moment your team is winning is just so idiotic. IMO you should be more interested in what the team needs to do to be better for that next year rather than worry about what a poster r media person said two years ago etc.
I'm the 1st to admit I hate DG. And imo he has made awful moves that someone more competent I feel could have done better. I despise his way, his arrogance and his lying etc. But if he wins-- my hate will turn - and I'll call him "colorful." A "colorful winner." Would it matter years prior I hated the guy as I watch our team win Super Bowl(s)? Not one bit. Winning is all that matters.
You hate him? Why? His lying? Should he go out and do press conferences telling other teams what we are planning on doing? What a dumb fucking thing to say.
What awful moves has he really mad? The Omameh & Stewart signing? They were bad. They weren't awful. Very little impact on the team's cap space.
The Giants are in a much better position then they were in December 2017. He's only been around for 2 drafts and we have a lot of young talent. Jones, Saquon, Shepard, Slayton, Coleman, Engram, Hernandez, Halapio, Hill, Tomlinson, Lawrence, Baker, McIntosh, Carter, Oshane, Love, Ballantine, Peppers & Rosas.
They have 65 million in cap space with 54 players under contract for 2020. If they move on from just Jackrabbit, Ellison, Martin & Tanney they are at 85 million in cap space. That money along with another strong draft should put the Giants in position to be contenders for a long time.
I don't care what the pundits think (or thought) about Jones or any other player. I'd rather put my faith in the guy whose job is on the line, and that certainly isn't any pundit. Until that faith is shown unquestionably to be misplaced, I'll go with the guy(s) making the picks, not their critics.
The Giants drafted Jones in the 1st Round, #6 overall. That's good enough for me...for now. I still want to see the kid perform when his job is on the line. I don't think that's too much to ask for. I'll concede that he's off to a good start, but this race is a marathon, not a sprint.
As for the 'he wouldn't have been there at 17" argument. What happened, happened. He was picked where he was picked. It's done. We'll never know the alternative timelines unless Tony Stark takes us all through the Quantum Realm.
1) Giants won't win an SB with Eli at QB in 2019 - OK 1st assumption is good.
2) Starting experience a QB's rookie year is crucial - Um NO.
Of the top 4 QBs in the NFL today, arguably: (Mahomes, Brady, Brees and Rogers) NOT ONE OF THEM STARTED AS A ROOKIE. IE, you simply made your assumption up out of thin air, it's unfounded. And you can dig through NFL history to corroborate that if you like. Not to mention examples of QBs who started as rookies who were likely damaged by the experience, like David Carr.
3) Eli is decrepit. Well, this is belied by the fact he had one of his best statistical years ever last year, in his 1st year under PS. IMO he's likely to improve on that year 2 especially if the OL performs better. So wrong again.
4) The Giants are "wasting" DJ8's salary cap year. Well, if the team isn't going to the superbowl regardless of whether Eli or DJ is at QB, how does the salary cap savings (that theoretically allows the Giants to purchase a better FA or two) really matter? Not much, bad assumption #4.
5) Eli is the designated starter based on some payback for "services rendered." Really? I doubt PS sees it that way at all. He's the designated starter because at this point they think Eli will outperform DJ8. Bad assumption #4 out of 5.
Whatever, if your assumptions are correct, it's not a moronic position. Show me (Lord knows I'm not asking for proof) how your assumptions are valid.
Is experience a good or bad thing? If it's good, which I presume you know is yes, so why not get it as soon as possible? Forget what the conditions were, has starting from day one worked out for guys like Dak, Peyton, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Wentz, etc? A simple yes or no works for me.
Eli may indeed have a good year. So what? Do you think he still has the good to help us win the biggest prize? What % of NFL players get better at 38 and beyond? I'm just looking at the NFL actuarial tables...
Again, by starting Jones right away you get (1) the vital experience piece and (2) accelerate whether he is going to be a boom or a bust. If (2) is the boom, you get more production sooner at cheaper costs. Pretty basic economics here...
If you don't think Eli isn't getting some preferential treatment somewhere in this organization - very likely Mara - you are more naive than I thought.
It's a new NFL. The game is structured to allow QBs to play sooner because they are more protected and the game is just easier for QBs to play. And the plus side for us is we have a RB like Barkley who should be take at least 400 touches. So why can't Jones hand it off to him 300+ X and dump it off 100+X as well as Eli? When did the hand off get so challenging?
Glad I coukd help.
Glad I coukd help.
yeah, super helpful...
What hype? It's been the opposite of hype. That's my point.
I'm a bit at a loss here.
Actually, the new rules re QB protection have been far more beneficial to older, immobile QBs (Brady, Brees) than to rookies... and the mental part of the game - multiple and complex scheme defenses, sub-package defenses specialized player personnel on both offense and defense - have made the game more difficult than ever for rookies. Your points for the most part are blatantly false.
There's no longer a point to our discussion. Say and believe whatever you like, it's just a fan discussion board.
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...if the defense comes together, Eli gives the Giants the best chance to get to the Superbowl.
Glad I coukd help.
yeah, super helpful...
You're welcome - ( New Window )
Lulz...
He’s supposed to be pretty much NFL ready.
It’s been 15 years since Eli was drafted.
A QB picked at number 6 today better be ready to start game 1 if Year 2. If not game 1 of year 1.
What bad moves has he made? His getting Solder was a blunder when he could’ve gotten TWO football players – YOUNG football players for example in Hubbard and Fulton for the price of one again LT by the time the G-men are good he’ll begin to fade.
The money we are spending for Ogletree. Did you see his contract? What type of idiot in a rebuild is going to spend that much on Ogletree? Did you know the ILB Hicks that was on Philly is BOTH YOUNGER (though just 1 year) and BETTER.
Should’ve traded Collins in their rebuild year from last year. Could’ve gotten more.
These are just a few of the moves.
While you “say” they are in a “much better situation than 2017” – I don’t give a shit about your homerism. IMO the bigger question is are they on the right path to being a SB contender? Anyone who says “yes” isn’t basing it on fact – they are basing it on nothing but “hope.” wFAN spoke about that yesterday the difference between Mets fans and Yank fans is that the Yanks know they got someone while Mets fans are about hope. We have no idea what Jones will be. And right now name one all-pro defensive player.
The sad thing is fans like you have been beaten down to accept mediocrity. The team sucked last year. They sucked the year before and we’re projected to win 5-6 games this upcoming year. Nobody knows if Jones is any good and it one big fucking guess on defense. Please stop with the homerism and get a check of reality. We need to see that we are going to be contenders. Being better from Dec 2017 means shit. Being a better team than Dallas and Philly and Wash should mean more to you than cheerleading for better than the disgraceful 2017 season.
You want to cheer they have $65m in cap space. Great. I think another GM could have had more OR could’ve signed better players while picking up better Free Agents than “Mr. Super WR Jordan Tate.” Glad that your homerism is alive and well.
Embarrassing.
At least I had credibility.
Your brains is all in your wallet and your trigger finger. You take away the good-goods, and the shakedown cabbage, and them pistoleros and you're nothin'!
They are also alike in that they form these hard, aggressive, unbreakable opinions based on very little actual information.
Then to compound the issue they feed off of each other.
I love this, so true.
I also loved the Jones pick at 6
But it still doesn't matter unless it translates to live games
I bet a coaching perspective would sum it up best: encouraged he's showing well so far but there's a ways to go. Just focus on getting better the next play / practice / game. I would say the most encouraging thing is what we expected - DJ already seems to have that type of pro mentality, especially important in NYC
Otherwise this is just a cyclic argument between half full & half empty