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How Daniel Jones is performing is underappreciated

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 10:32 am
Most Giants fans hated the pick of Daniel Jones at #6. Many said it was an outright disastrous selection.

You can poo-poo OTAs and mini-camps all you want, but Daniel Jones has not been overwhelmed by any of it. In fact, if you compare the early reviews on him vis a vis Eli Manning in 2004, Daniel Jones has performed far better thus far.

Daniel Jones may or may not end up being a good QB, but as of mid-June, he has not disappointed at all.

And this is HUGELY positive when you consider the possible alternative (i.e., him looking like a train wreck).

Oddly, the media and fans don't seem to be appreciating the fact that so far, so good.

*********

Quote:
According to Giants tight end Evan Engram, who was a spectator for all three practices, Jones is also becoming more confident by the day.

“You can see him getting confident," Engram said Saturday night at the Landon Collins Charity Softball Game. "Anytime you’re coming in as a rookie, you’re going to be a little shaky or a little nervous. You kind of see him starting to brush that off, get into his groove and take advantage of everything he’s given.”

Throughout last week’s practices, Jones seemed to quickly go through his progressions, get rid of the football accurately while displaying better than expected arm-strength and deep ball accuracy.

Jones says that procession information quickly and going through his progressions is what he feels he’s improved on the most since being chosen No. 6 overall in the NFL Draft and has helped spawn his new found confidence.

“I think just thinking quicker," Jones said. "That’s the challenge for young guys to be able of react and just play. It’s about thinking as quick as you can and making the right decision as quick as you can. I’m just working on that.

...

Where some rookie quarterbacks would have a tendency to hold onto the football too long in the pocket, or force the ball into their first read, Jones has already shown an ability to read a defense and make the right throws. That hasn’t gone unnoticed by head coach Pat Shurmur.

“His head is swimming much less than most rookies for a couple reasons,” Shurmur said last week. "He’s very smart, he was coached extremely well in college, he’s been around it. He’s been coached by one of the best in college.

“He understands the process. Again, we call it a cat, they call it a dog, it doesn’t matter. He’s been around the process enough to know. (He’s) very perceptive, he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.”

As impressive as Jones has looked, and he already seems to belong on the field as a competent NFL quarterback, he still has a long way to go before realistically having a chance to supplant veteran Eli Manning as the starting quarterback.

In the meant time, Jones says he’s striving for continuously making progress in practice.

“I think I improved every day [during minicamp]," Jones said. "That’s the goal. I did some things better, did some things not as good, it’s about me being consistent, and I’m learning a lot. Trying to learn as much as I can.”


Why Giants’ Daniel Jones is brimming with confidence after strong spring - ( New Window )
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RE: Big Rick In Fl  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14467661 giantstock said:
Quote:
I think the current Giant GM is [incompetent] and unfortunately I think it will show each year progressing forward.

What bad moves has he made? His getting Solder was a blunder when he could’ve gotten TWO football players – YOUNG football players for example in Hubbard and Fulton for the price of one again LT by the time the G-men are good he’ll begin to fade.

The money we are spending for Ogletree. Did you see his contract? What type of idiot in a rebuild is going to spend that much on Ogletree? Did you know the ILB Hicks that was on Philly is BOTH YOUNGER (though just 1 year) and BETTER.

Should’ve traded Collins in their rebuild year from last year. Could’ve gotten more.

We have no idea what Jones will be. Nobody knows if Jones is any good and it one big fucking guess on defense. Please stop with the homerism and get a check of reality.
You want to cheer they have $65m in cap space. Great. I think another GM could have had more OR could’ve signed better players while picking up better Free Agents than “Mr. Super WR Jordan[sic] Tate.” Glad that your homerism is alive and well.


Giantstock - I agree we don't really know shit about Jones yet, nor the state of the defense with it's almost totally revamped secondary and largely new DL (rookie, 2nd year, 3rd year players.)

Which means the optimism is founded largely on hope...

But also means your pessimism is almost equally unfounded. By your own admission, we have zero clue how Baker, Beal, Peppers, Ballentine, Love and Haley are gonna mesh with each other and Bethea. No idea about the impact of big DL, or how DL, DT, and BJ Hill will mesh and interact.

So lighten up maybe and let's see how this plays out?


I plead guilty  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2019 5:52 pm : link
To having gone completely nuts for a DL of Ed Oliver, Dexter Lawrence and b.j. Hill. And not even having done any research at all. Hehehe. Bad fan! Slap myself!

That said, if the new QB turns out even halfway decent or better starting nfl level QB, The Getts will be looking fairly great...to genius!

Great news? We don't have to look at ...or even discuss QBs news draft.

Let's go linebackers and tight ends! Wooohoooo! And centers and tackles! Waaaahooo!
.

Now it 'getts' fun!
Typo  
idiotsavant : 6/9/2019 5:54 pm : link
Not news draft. No need discuss QBs NEXT draft! Yay!
RE: RE: RE: It's really very simple bw...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/9/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14467653 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 14467628 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14467614 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...if the defense comes together, Eli gives the Giants the best chance to get to the Superbowl.

Glad I coukd help.



yeah, super helpful...

You're welcome - ( New Window )


Well put. It would be historical alright...
...  
christian : 6/9/2019 6:12 pm : link
Many analysts and rumblings from anonymous teams indicated Jones had a big hole, arm strength.

It's the reason supposedly he wasn't ranked as a consensus top-10 pick. I'm sure it's good for the staff to know with more observation that's not true.

Sometimes I think us fans forget how little 1-on-1 time teams get with draft picks. They don't have the luxury to run them through real practices, against pro competition, with their plays.

Now it seems that's been settled, the media and fans can chill and dial down the noise on whether it was a tragedy of a pick, and see the whole rest of myriad things he needs to prove.
Talk about jumping the gun  
Torrag : 6/9/2019 6:25 pm : link
A handful of practices and DJ is 'performing very well'??? Just stp already. There is no need to even have an opinion of him at this point. The amount of data available to comment on is miniscule. Let camp get here and some real work start to unfold. maybe even see the guy in a couple of pre season games??? PLEASE!
BlueLousback  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 6:32 pm : link
BleuLou--

I know what you're saying about my post. And I just want to say I am so hopeful Jones turns out to be great. There's posts out here in which people seem to really think some of us who either don;t like DG or some of his picks etc want GMEN to lose. I can't believe anyone would want that. I want Jones to be super great. I can't tell you how awesome that would be. When we all watch football - who thinks of what they've said on BBI vs what we want our team to do.

Anyways please look at BigRick's reply to me. The dude was pretty rough going at me with his sarcasm. He wasn't very "light" with me. IMO it wasn't called for. So I replied back the same way. I just want to add I am lightened up. I think that 2020 is the season and we'll get a great chance to see who Jones is. If he is awesome then we're going to be set for a long time. Nothing will be better than that.
Have we not seen our share of training camp superstars?  
UberAlias : 6/9/2019 6:32 pm : link
And we’re not even into actual camp yet. And yes, there are some positive reviews but not exactly raving. We’re talking about the #6 overall pick. The guy needs to be a franchise QB. I’m sorry, but we’re a long way from those sort of answers.
RE: “Accept mediocrity”  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14467664 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
What does that even mean? Getting mad at a team means you don’t accept it and being optimistic means you do?

Embarrassing.


Yes, embarrassing some fans accept mediocrity. I don;t have the time to dumb it down for you further.
RE: BlueLousback  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/9/2019 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14467693 giantstock said:
Quote:
BleuLou--

I know what you're saying about my post. And I just want to say I am so hopeful Jones turns out to be great. There's posts out here in which people seem to really think some of us who either don;t like DG or some of his picks etc want GMEN to lose. I can't believe anyone would want that. I want Jones to be super great. I can't tell you how awesome that would be. When we all watch football - who thinks of what they've said on BBI vs what we want our team to do.

Anyways please look at BigRick's reply to me. The dude was pretty rough going at me with his sarcasm. He wasn't very "light" with me. IMO it wasn't called for. So I replied back the same way. I just want to add I am lightened up. I think that 2020 is the season and we'll get a great chance to see who Jones is. If he is awesome then we're going to be set for a long time. Nothing will be better than that.


Happy to read this GS, truly. Life is too short to go crazy over mistakes our team makes. If I could share with you what real disappointment is I would but it's not for publication. And you're setting a realistic goal in 2020. I do think, now, that DG "has a plan" and his plan is finding and filling in the types of players - or specific players, not "types" that his coaches want for their specific schemes.

I think there's a shot this team's defense has really turned the corner in terms of personnel fitting the scheme and cost of said personnel, this year. But with so many rookies and youngsters, well it'll be great if we can see that in the 2nd half or 2019. The OL is still a huge concern and paper thin for depth.

In the meantime, let's enjoy the ride. I take more from the quality of play than the straight W-L record. I think we'll be seeing better play this year, which isn't saying much given how poorly the team has played overall since our last SB title.

I spoke too much, again, glad to read your response.
RE: Well it's been fun arguing with you...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2019 7:24 pm : link
In comment 14467651 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
"The game is structured to allow QBs to play sooner because they are more protected and the game is just easier for QBs to play."

Actually, the new rules re QB protection have been far more beneficial to older, immobile QBs (Brady, Brees) than to rookies... and the mental part of the game - multiple and complex scheme defenses, sub-package defenses specialized player personnel on both offense and defense - have made the game more difficult than ever for rookies. Your points for the most part are blatantly false.

There's no longer a point to our discussion. Say and believe whatever you like, it's just a fan discussion board.



I provided you a list of quality QBs recently who have stepped in from day one and were able to parlay experience into quicker success. Proving that it can work. I can produce more examples.

If playing QB isn't easier than ever than why is scoring at an all-time high, completion %s higher than ever, QB ratings are higher than ever, more passing TDs than ever, more catches than ever, more third down conversion than ever, etc? Let me guess...coincidence?

Indeed, blatantly false...
I’m just not sure how much appreciation  
UberAlias : 6/9/2019 7:27 pm : link
We’re supposed to show in response mini camp. Some positive reports for our #6 pick. I should hope so. It’s not like anyone’s screaming this is the next Mahomes.
I think...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/9/2019 7:27 pm : link
...that you're confusing "accepting mediocrity" with "enjoying the offseason."
Very Encouraged  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/9/2019 7:40 pm : link
Blue Lou....I think it is actually easier for rookie QB's now. The college game in the last ten years is much more advanced. Many of the pro concepts on defense are definitely present so the college QB's are much more proficient with protections, reads, route concepts etc. Not all but many. The big thing though is how much colleges pass now. The majority of QB's pre-2000 were in very run heavy offenses. Two powerhouses of the 80's were option teams (Nebraska, Oklahoma) who were like 90% run and many more top teams as well. I believe this is why we see the young QB's hitting the NFL with more success early.

Jones seems to be off to a great start. One thing we are not going to know until it happens is can he handle the big moment? As much crap Eli took in his career he certainly answered the bell. Hopefully Jones will be of similar make-up. This is imo the most important quality and one that you really won't know until it happens.


So far so good  
TD : 6/9/2019 8:24 pm : link
It would be great if DG hit this pick out of the park.
I was iffy on Daniel Jones just because I wasnt sure if he had the  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/9/2019 8:37 pm : link
ability to throw to the sidelines in the NFL. For whatever reason on TV it seems slower to get there. Apparently in person this isn't an issue all. Pete Prisco alluded to this and why he blew teams away at the private workouts. If he couldn't throw to sideline you would be hearing about picks left and right during these reports. This isn't a contact issue and something you can evaluate in 7 on 7s. Consider me emphatically happy right now. I personally think he's the goods from all the other stuff I saw from him at Duke.
RE: I think...  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14467709 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...that you're confusing "accepting mediocrity" with "enjoying the offseason."


No. You aren't considering who and when I made the comment to. It had nothing to do with the off-season of which Eric is speaking.

It had to do with the comment that "we are better now than in 2017 . . ."

SO my point wasn't to argue with the context of THIS offseason. It's to argue that just because we are "better" than that crap of 2017 season that we should somehow "rejoice" that everything is "fine." How often do you think Buffalo, Miami and the Jets felt the same way as their seasons improved?

**It's great if you are excited about this offseason and you love Jones etc. Great. But imo if you're happy just because we are better than 2017 - that's just nonsense. Many teams can look at 1 or 2 years they get a bit better then slip right back into that sinkhole.

You can't go and take my 2nd post to Big Rick and apply it to those who are excited about this offseason. But you can apply it to those who think one year or two year improvement means you're on the AUTOMATIC road to contention. If Jones isn't the real deal and we don't establish a couple of dominant defenders, where are we going?
I think it's instructive that Giants receivers are complimentary  
GeofromNJ : 6/9/2019 9:00 pm : link
toward Jones. I don't think they're being coached to say positive things about his talent and the way he's progressing, and I don't recall Giants receivers being complimentary regarding Eli's first OTA's and certainly not complimentary regarding any of the qb's drafted by the Giants since Eli and before Jones. Jones may never be all-pro or elite, but to date he's not demonstrated that he doesn't belong.
Eric, not everyone thought the pick was a bad one.  
Giant John : 6/9/2019 9:07 pm : link
In fact I think a lot have warmed up to the pick. Personally I liked him a lot. I’ve argued with a number of posters who questioned his arm strength. I never had those doubts after watching him. In any event the news we have heard is good. As of now that’s all we have to judge on until the games come around. I’m optimistic and I like the odds that we have a new QB that’s going to to some really good things.
I hope he knows how to slide and can avoid that serious injury. We can’t expect him to be as durable as Eli.
I’m pulling for the kid.
The big knock on Jones is his decision making under pressure  
Vanzetti : 6/9/2019 9:27 pm : link
I saw bits and pieces of about four Duke games. I was watching Jones because some people I respect on BBI were talking him up.

And they were right that he has the look of an NFL QB. ButI also saw him start watching the rush instead of looking downfield a la David Carr. I saw three yard completions on third and eight. I saw him EXPECTING to get hit and conjuring a pass rush in his mind even when there was not one. I did see receiver drop passes but I also saw him miss guys who were wide open and I saw him lock onto receivers and not see the field very well

So, while I'm glad he has been doing well, I don't put much stock in it until we see him face a pass rush

Here’s the bottom line here  
djm : 6/9/2019 9:30 pm : link
If jones were stinking up the joint many of the same posters saying “big deal it’s only mini camp” would instead be going fucking ape shit. Small victories.
RE: RE: I think...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/9/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14467740 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14467709 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...that you're confusing "accepting mediocrity" with "enjoying the offseason."



No. You aren't considering who and when I made the comment to. It had nothing to do with the off-season of which Eric is speaking.

It had to do with the comment that "we are better now than in 2017 . . ."

SO my point wasn't to argue with the context of THIS offseason. It's to argue that just because we are "better" than that crap of 2017 season that we should somehow "rejoice" that everything is "fine." How often do you think Buffalo, Miami and the Jets felt the same way as their seasons improved?

**It's great if you are excited about this offseason and you love Jones etc. Great. But imo if you're happy just because we are better than 2017 - that's just nonsense. Many teams can look at 1 or 2 years they get a bit better then slip right back into that sinkhole.

You can't go and take my 2nd post to Big Rick and apply it to those who are excited about this offseason. But you can apply it to those who think one year or two year improvement means you're on the AUTOMATIC road to contention. If Jones isn't the real deal and we don't establish a couple of dominant defenders, where are we going?

You're missing the point.
I'm enjoying the offseason, you're not.
What's happened in Miami or Buffalo is irrelevant.

Cautious optimism is holding back happiness.
Deciding that the team didn't become an all time great in the offseason so they suck is kinda sad.

Enjoying your favorite team is a win.

Be happy.
Again...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 10:31 pm : link
this is not a "he's going to be great" vs. "he was over-drafted" argument.

The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.

The alternative would certainly be drawing the ire of fans and media everywhere.
RE: RE: RE: I think...  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14467765 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 14467740 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14467709 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:





You're missing the point.
I'm enjoying the offseason, you're not.
What's happened in Miami or Buffalo is irrelevant.

Cautious optimism is holding back happiness.
Deciding that the team didn't become an all time great in the offseason so they suck is kinda sad.

Enjoying your favorite team is a win.

Be happy.


No. You are missing the point of my comment that was directed at big rick regarding 2017. ---

It had nothing to do with this offseason. SO you can't take my comment specifically addressing 2017 season and apply it to this off-season. I am very happy that you and others think we are going in the right direction. I respect that. I just think sometimes others don't want to respect a counter argument. Fro example it is not lock that Daniel Jones is going to be good. It's not a lock that this year's draft class is awesome. We're projected to be a 5-6 win team for a reason.

Anyhow-- This off-season is a completely different point than what you 1st quoted to me in your reply. The point you 1st sent to mm about the 2017 season record has no bearing on this offseason.

I don't enjoy summer or preseason you're right. Ever since the Norm Snead days when GMEN defeated both Miami and Pittsburgh in preseason.

We can be different. Some are cup is half-full and some are cup is half-empty. When the team is winning I am cup is half-full. Not looking to place blame. When the team sucks I'm half-empty. I hate being a complainer when they are doing well enough and i hate being a cheerleader when they suck. That's how I enjoy. Thus i enjoy being cautious but hopeful. I ammmmm HOPEFUL. OFC Daniel Jones could wind up being super.

I am just a bit surprised that this team has been bad for so long and other than Barkley GMEn don't have any other stars - how there can be so much optimism yet there is NOTHING that is really, really, really good that you can point to in terms of positions other than the RB.
RE: Again...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14467776 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.


By whom? I've seen Giants/Eli-Jones talk rather frequently on daily ESPN NFL Live and NFLN since the draft. So that's the national media front.

It's encouraging - yes. But as many have mentioned, it's a controlled environment. The real test - obviously - is under live fire. Which is why I think it's best for everyone for Jones to start ASAP.

With Barkley as the running back, he could be Jones's best friend for Jones to ease into the role. Tons of hand-offs and check-downs, and designed plays by Shurmur to leverage Jones's athleticism. Part of the playbook ignored with Eli's limited skills.
RE: RE: RE: I think...  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 11:18 pm : link
In comment 14467765 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 14467740 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14467709 Brown_Hornet said:
Cautious optimism is holding back happiness.
Deciding that the team didn't become an all time great in the offseason so they suck is kinda sad.

Enjoying your favorite team is a win.

Be happy.


The other point -- I made on this thread--

"We need to see that we are going to be contenders."

That's not the same as you posted above.

So my post to Big Rick was specifically addressing the 2017 season not this season yet you are trying to tie my comment into this season. Buffalo, Miami and NY Jets were NOT irrelevant as a counter to the point made by Big Rick that "we have improved since 2017."

And secondly you are trying to tie in my comment of winning and super bowls to ---- "Deciding that the team didn't become an all time great." No offense but I never said this.

I said the below. If you interpreted my comments another way - no problem. It's not what I meant. Below is what I'd like to see at least. Winning ofc cures all. This year we aren't going to. But what "locks" do we have in terms of positions that we know are outstanding right now? RB at that's it. If Jones shows during season of 2019 he's going to be good then we have something. If the dlINe is strong then we have something. If Haps or Remmers helps along with the other 3 being solid at the OL then we have something. The secondary has to show something first before we know it's "fixed" right?

"We need to see that we are going to be contenders."
I'm with giantstock, blouLou and Kaatu in this  
.McL. : 6/9/2019 11:22 pm : link
It is encouraging that he hasn't looked like crap yet. But in the big scheme, it means little.

Eli looked terrible at first, especially his first minicamp and OTAs, but then he came on from his 2nd year and eventually won us 2 Superbowls.

It's just too early to tell yet.

I was also one not keen on this pick. But as GS is saying, I am hoping like hell that he turns out great.

But my enthusiasm is tempered, until I see him in real action.
We can agree...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/9/2019 11:25 pm : link
...to disagree.

Im enjoying the positivity and the excitement that it brings.

RE: We can agree...  
giantstock : 6/9/2019 11:47 pm : link
In comment 14467803 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...to disagree.

Im enjoying the positivity and the excitement that it brings.


Great for you. And I hope to be aboard this season.
RE: RE: We can agree...  
.McL. : 6/9/2019 11:54 pm : link
In comment 14467812 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14467803 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...to disagree.

Im enjoying the positivity and the excitement that it brings.




Great for you. And I hope to be aboard this season.

If I may add my $.02...
I think I have been around too long seen too much to be overly enthused or dejected this time of year.
I've seen the Giants go undefeated in the preseason looking like a juggernaut, only to end up 10 games under .500.
I have seen them look like absolute crap in the preseason, and in 2007 the 1st two games of the year, and come back and win the SB...
I'll just take it all in stride until the real bullets start flying. From what I am reading GS is reacting the same way.
You’re right Eric  
Platos : 6/9/2019 11:57 pm : link
Compared to other guys we’ve brought in he looks great. We’re due after the nassibs, woodsons, bomars lol
After what they said about Webb  
adamg : 6/10/2019 2:29 am : link
some skepticism is healthy, I would wager.
and the house organ continues to play a lovely tune  
HomerJones45 : 6/10/2019 4:15 am : link
I will poo-poo OTA's. He's not overwhelmed by 3 or 4 days of flag tag football where he can't be hit. Bravo! He's able to complete passes over a bunch of rookie and UDFA's DB's? Hurray!

Let's see what happens when he has to play against another team whose DC is sending blitzers after him who are actually going to whack him backed up by vet db's defending this clown set of wideouts we have. Until then, all we have is a bunch of giants.com propaganda about a flag tag event.
RE: and the house organ continues to play a lovely tune  
joeinpa : 6/10/2019 6:14 am : link
In comment 14467836 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
I will poo-poo OTA's. He's not overwhelmed by 3 or 4 days of flag tag football where he can't be hit. Bravo! He's able to complete passes over a bunch of rookie and UDFA's DB's? Hurray!

Let's see what happens when he has to play against another team whose DC is sending blitzers after him who are actually going to whack him backed up by vet db's defending this clown set of wideouts we have. Until then, all we have is a bunch of giants.com propaganda about a flag tag event.


Ok then. Thanks for sharing
RE: RE: “Accept mediocrity”  
gmenatlarge : 6/10/2019 7:38 am : link
In comment 14467695 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14467664 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


What does that even mean? Getting mad at a team means you don’t accept it and being optimistic means you do?

Embarrassing.



Yes, embarrassing some fans accept mediocrity. I don;t have the time to dumb it down for you further.


"mediocrity" would be a noticeable improvement at this point!
You don’t sound cool  
UConn4523 : 6/10/2019 7:50 am : link
by saying you don’t accept mediocrity. You aren’t a better fan because of your “hard nosed” posts. You are angry at a sports team, think about that.

If fans want to be optimistic, it’s just that. We are accepting that this is sports, it’s entertainment, and it isn’t the end of the world if we stink. I for one think the team is headed in the right direction but if I’m wrong and we stink again, I won’t lose a minute of sleep over it. It is t that serious.
RE: and the house organ continues to play a lovely tune  
Big Blue '56 : 6/10/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14467836 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
I will poo-poo OTA's. He's not overwhelmed by 3 or 4 days of flag tag football where he can't be hit. Bravo! He's able to complete passes over a bunch of rookie and UDFA's DB's? Hurray!

Let's see what happens when he has to play against another team whose DC is sending blitzers after him who are actually going to whack him backed up by vet db's defending this clown set of wideouts we have. Until then, all we have is a bunch of giants.com propaganda about a flag tag event.


I too completely discount OTAs. My faith is totally in Shurmur and his assessment of Jones when drafted. What he’s shown so far truly means squat. I am very optimistic because of Shurmur, not at all because of non-pressure shorts and shells football tossing. Game action will be my ONLY barometer for fan opinion.
Spurned Rosen-lovers won’t easily let go.  
flycatcher : 6/10/2019 8:04 am : link
May their wailings be wind in DJ’s sails.
I do agree that if he was playing poorly, we'd definitely have a ton  
Heisenberg : 6/10/2019 8:06 am : link
of articles describing his poor play in great detail. Furthermore, if he was a well regarded pick and was playing well, there would be stories about how good he is. But the league-wide backlash from the pick probably is a disincentive for any writers to stick their necks out and proclaim that maybe he won't be a bust.

As has been noted, it's football in shorts season. Nothing really matters until he plays in actual games.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/10/2019 8:16 am : link
I seem to have struck a nerve here and I'm not sure why.

EARLY reports on Daniel Jones could be good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. They have been good. Not sure why this a bad or controversial thing.

Bw in dc... per your post... I must have missed those national reports saying Jones is doing well. I keep hearing that Haskins was the better choice.
RE: Again...  
UberAlias : 6/10/2019 8:20 am : link
In comment 14467776 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
this is not a "he's going to be great" vs. "he was over-drafted" argument.

The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.

The alternative would certainly be drawing the ire of fans and media everywhere.
Fair enough Eric. But you have to look at the context. This team has been bad, and for a long time. The rot has been there from the top down. In terms of scouting, there seems to be be improvement (though many here way jumping the gun on that, even then) but there has also been a lot of questionable moves. That doesn't mean bad, but given the recent history, I would suggest some skepticism is warranted.

So, yes, it's nice to hear some encouraging things about the young QB. At the same time, the guy was the #6 overall pick in the draft, so the bar is going to be very high. He could be good player and still not be "good enough". That luxury was lost when the team decided Jones was "too good" to risk not being there at 17.

The matter is complicated further with this nonsense about handing the position to Eli and declaring it his unconditionally provided the team remains in contention. So we have Jones learning fast. Great --so he'll be ready for action, but won't actually see any. Not unless we're sitting at home watching meaningless football...again. So I'll add this to the list of questionable big picture decisions.
RE: I still  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."

Eric, you forgot how quickly he processes new information, how quickly he is learning the new offense.
Jones might turn out to be good, he might not  
Greg from LI : 6/10/2019 9:45 am : link
But I see no reason to pay any attention to OTAs.
RE: RE: I still  
Giantz_comeback : 6/10/2019 10:09 am : link
In comment 14467987 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14467503 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


don't get the "nothing he does in spring matters" argument.

Sure it does. It matters how his arm looks. It matters about his accuracy. It matters about his decision making. It matters how his teammates are taking to him. It matters how he handles the pressure from the fans and media. It matters how he handles the press.

The alternative would also "matter."


Eric, you forgot how quickly he processes new information, how quickly he is learning the new offense.


For a QB I'd say it matters even more. To start off well shows they process information quickly and are able to execute it on the field in game action when they only have 2.5 seconds to read, make the best decision, and then accurately deliver the ball in a location that gives the WR the best advantage over the defense depending on look/spacing/formation at the time the ball is thrown.

Not the end all be all but a very encouraging sign.
RE: RE: Again...  
Giantz_comeback : 6/10/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14467876 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14467776 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


this is not a "he's going to be great" vs. "he was over-drafted" argument.

The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.

The alternative would certainly be drawing the ire of fans and media everywhere.

Fair enough Eric. But you have to look at the context. This team has been bad, and for a long time. The rot has been there from the top down. In terms of scouting, there seems to be be improvement (though many here way jumping the gun on that, even then) but there has also been a lot of questionable moves. That doesn't mean bad, but given the recent history, I would suggest some skepticism is warranted.

So, yes, it's nice to hear some encouraging things about the young QB. At the same time, the guy was the #6 overall pick in the draft, so the bar is going to be very high. He could be good player and still not be "good enough". That luxury was lost when the team decided Jones was "too good" to risk not being there at 17.

The matter is complicated further with this nonsense about handing the position to Eli and declaring it his unconditionally provided the team remains in contention. So we have Jones learning fast. Great --so he'll be ready for action, but won't actually see any. Not unless we're sitting at home watching meaningless football...again. So I'll add this to the list of questionable big picture decisions.


If Jones turns out to be 'the goods' a franchise QB always trumps everything else when it is an immediate need position or upcoming need position in the near future (within 1 year maybe even 2). Even a great ER.

In our case our starting QB is 39 and on the last year of his contract. this is quite likely Elis last year here and this team isn't expecting to be picking in the top 10 in the next few drafts. DG has rebuilt a heck of a foundation here and improved a lot of the building blocks and of course the culture. I think it pays dividends starting next year.
Eli  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 10:32 am : link
who is a very cerebral QB struggled at first when trying to learn the new offense. I will never forget the panic after his first minicamp practice especially one play where he threw it where there was absolutely no player in the vicinity. Even Eli needed several practices before he was able to feel comfortable in the new offense. Eli also had the luxury of significantly more practice time.

For the record I am not suggesting Jones is better, smarter, etc than Eli I was just pointing out how impressive it is for Jones to be this comfortable.
The other point  
BSIMatt : 6/10/2019 10:38 am : link
If you put a gun to most Giants fans heads and asked which is more talented group, the WRs/Engram vs Giants secondary...I think most would say Giants have a talent edge in the secondary. Yeah, there's no bump and run, but there is no shortage of sticky cover corners and safeties with good speed and range and if you watch the mini camp highlights these guys aren't open by 5 yards most of the time..his ball placement on some of these throws has been impressive, and that sentiment is echoed in the observations not only of beat reporters but of national reporters as well who dropped in at minicamp.
Right now I'd take Shep/Tate/Engram over our top 3 DBs  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/10/2019 10:58 am : link
You are talking about experienced vets here.

Eli came in a struggled because of the insane amount of option routes in the offense Coughlin ran.

As far as DJ, his arm strength to sidelines against NFL talent was his biggest question mark and he has answered that question. We know this guy stands tough in the pocket and keep his eyes downfield, this dude isnt Sam Bradford. We don't know for sure until the bullets fly for real, but dismiss his performance as meaningless is just not accurate.
people over valued Davis Webb  
Platos : 6/10/2019 11:08 am : link
he never looked good and always had knocks. his release was slow and he had happy feet in the pocket.

DJ doesn't look like that so far.
RE: RE: RE: We can agree...  
giantstock : 6/10/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14467815 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14467812 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14467803 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...to disagree.

Im enjoying the positivity and the excitement that it brings.




Great for you. And I hope to be aboard this season.


If I may add my $.02...
I think I have been around too long seen too much to be overly enthused or dejected this time of year.
I've seen the Giants go undefeated in the preseason looking like a juggernaut, only to end up 10 games under .500.
I have seen them look like absolute crap in the preseason, and in 2007 the 1st two games of the year, and come back and win the SB...
I'll just take it all in stride until the real bullets start flying. From what I am reading GS is reacting the same way.


Exactly.

I'm being mis-characterized here as being angry.

I just think we suck and until we stop sucking or until I see some glimmer of good play from either the QB, the OL, the WR, the DL, the LB or the secondary, I'm not going to be a cheerleader. It's not that I'm angry. I'm hopeful.

Hey on another thread others are saying we have our OLINE fixed. I don't think we do. But I'm hopeful. Just because I don't think the OLINE is fixed yet doesn't mean I'm angry in June. Just because I say I don't think we're going to be any good as a team doesn't mean I'm angry. Just because I think some fans have become too accepting of being bad or mediocre doesn't mean I'm angry in June.

If some of my posts seem angry it's because the sarcasm thrown at me warranted an angry reply imo. But oyu and i are on the same page with all.

Man-- I would have loved Dillard at 17 though I do like Lawrence.

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