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How Daniel Jones is performing is underappreciated

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/9/2019 10:32 am
Most Giants fans hated the pick of Daniel Jones at #6. Many said it was an outright disastrous selection.

You can poo-poo OTAs and mini-camps all you want, but Daniel Jones has not been overwhelmed by any of it. In fact, if you compare the early reviews on him vis a vis Eli Manning in 2004, Daniel Jones has performed far better thus far.

Daniel Jones may or may not end up being a good QB, but as of mid-June, he has not disappointed at all.

And this is HUGELY positive when you consider the possible alternative (i.e., him looking like a train wreck).

Oddly, the media and fans don't seem to be appreciating the fact that so far, so good.

*********

Quote:
According to Giants tight end Evan Engram, who was a spectator for all three practices, Jones is also becoming more confident by the day.

“You can see him getting confident," Engram said Saturday night at the Landon Collins Charity Softball Game. "Anytime you’re coming in as a rookie, you’re going to be a little shaky or a little nervous. You kind of see him starting to brush that off, get into his groove and take advantage of everything he’s given.”

Throughout last week’s practices, Jones seemed to quickly go through his progressions, get rid of the football accurately while displaying better than expected arm-strength and deep ball accuracy.

Jones says that procession information quickly and going through his progressions is what he feels he’s improved on the most since being chosen No. 6 overall in the NFL Draft and has helped spawn his new found confidence.

“I think just thinking quicker," Jones said. "That’s the challenge for young guys to be able of react and just play. It’s about thinking as quick as you can and making the right decision as quick as you can. I’m just working on that.

...

Where some rookie quarterbacks would have a tendency to hold onto the football too long in the pocket, or force the ball into their first read, Jones has already shown an ability to read a defense and make the right throws. That hasn’t gone unnoticed by head coach Pat Shurmur.

“His head is swimming much less than most rookies for a couple reasons,” Shurmur said last week. "He’s very smart, he was coached extremely well in college, he’s been around it. He’s been coached by one of the best in college.

“He understands the process. Again, we call it a cat, they call it a dog, it doesn’t matter. He’s been around the process enough to know. (He’s) very perceptive, he doesn’t make the same mistake twice.”

As impressive as Jones has looked, and he already seems to belong on the field as a competent NFL quarterback, he still has a long way to go before realistically having a chance to supplant veteran Eli Manning as the starting quarterback.

In the meant time, Jones says he’s striving for continuously making progress in practice.

“I think I improved every day [during minicamp]," Jones said. "That’s the goal. I did some things better, did some things not as good, it’s about me being consistent, and I’m learning a lot. Trying to learn as much as I can.”


Why Giants’ Daniel Jones is brimming with confidence after strong spring - ( New Window )
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You could make that argument but going back to  
BSIMatt : 6/10/2019 11:08 am : link
The group argument, and why I brought it up is that Jones hasn’t been running with the 1s...I think secondary is deeper than the WR group with regards to skill level.
RE: Anybody still upset about Jones being picked at #6,  
V.I.G. : 6/10/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14467515 MOOPS said:
Quote:
get over it. He wasn't going to be there at 17.
So far there's not one thing to dislike about Jones. Every surprise has been positive.
Way ahead of where most rookie QBs are mentally and physically he's shows a better than average arm, outstanding athletic ability, developing leadership skills and grasp of the playbook.

Really, what's not to like?
I'm on the Jones train.

+1
+2
+3
RE: Eric, do you know what the Pundit Graveyard is littered with?  
V.I.G. : 6/10/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14467576 Klaatu said:
Quote:
It's a trick question. There is no Pundit Graveyard, because those guys never have to pay a price for being wrong, and they're wrong all the time. They're very susceptible to "groupthink," even though they all come with their own biases and preconceived notions.

I don't care what the pundits think (or thought) about Jones or any other player. I'd rather put my faith in the guy whose job is on the line, and that certainly isn't any pundit. Until that faith is shown unquestionably to be misplaced, I'll go with the guy(s) making the picks, not their critics.

The Giants drafted Jones in the 1st Round, #6 overall. That's good enough for me...for now. I still want to see the kid perform when his job is on the line. I don't think that's too much to ask for. I'll concede that he's off to a good start, but this race is a marathon, not a sprint.

+4
+5
All I know is I didn't want Haskins  
V.I.G. : 6/10/2019 11:23 am : link
//
in blue
//
RE: RE: RE: RE: We can agree...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/10/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14468070 giantstock said:
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In comment 14467815 .McL. said:


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In comment 14467812 giantstock said:


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In comment 14467803 Brown_Hornet said:


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...to disagree.

Im enjoying the positivity and the excitement that it brings.




Great for you. And I hope to be aboard this season.


If I may add my $.02...
I think I have been around too long seen too much to be overly enthused or dejected this time of year.
I've seen the Giants go undefeated in the preseason looking like a juggernaut, only to end up 10 games under .500.
I have seen them look like absolute crap in the preseason, and in 2007 the 1st two games of the year, and come back and win the SB...
I'll just take it all in stride until the real bullets start flying. From what I am reading GS is reacting the same way.



Exactly.

I'm being mis-characterized here as being angry.

I just think we suck and until we stop sucking or until I see some glimmer of good play from either the QB, the OL, the WR, the DL, the LB or the secondary, I'm not going to be a cheerleader. It's not that I'm angry. I'm hopeful.

Hey on another thread others are saying we have our OLINE fixed. I don't think we do. But I'm hopeful. Just because I don't think the OLINE is fixed yet doesn't mean I'm angry in June. Just because I say I don't think we're going to be any good as a team doesn't mean I'm angry. Just because I think some fans have become too accepting of being bad or mediocre doesn't mean I'm angry in June.

If some of my posts seem angry it's because the sarcasm thrown at me warranted an angry reply imo. But oyu and i are on the same page with all.

Man-- I would have loved Dillard at 17 though I do like Lawrence.

No worries.
I just don't know what I don't know and couldn't control it if I did.
The Giants owe me nothing.

I have no reason to be skeptical.
None.

DJ has provided fans (and apparently teammates and coaches) with nothing but positives.
I'm rolling with the positives.

RE: DG played his cards perfectly or Jones  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/10/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14467399 gtt350 said:
Quote:
would be in Denver.I think John Elway knows QB talent. We have a future all pro.

Yes, Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch, and Case Keenum are all evidence that Elway knows QB talent. At least as much as Michael Jordan knew basketball talent as a GM.

I'm rooting hard for Jones and I'm definitely encouraged by his performance so far (to whatever degree it's predictive at this stage), but if you're using Elway's eye for QBs as a way to give you faith in Jones, maybe pump the brakes just a bit.
I think the pt is  
joeinpa : 6/10/2019 12:06 pm : link
Up to now Jones has justified his draft position, passing all the tests OTA s and mini camp present.

The need for all the disclaimers seems to be spawned by those who felt he was a poor pick at that spot. Once again the need to be correct seems to trump taking pleasure and or hope in positive news if it is contrary to what a posters own desires were for this team
RE: DG played his cards perfectly or Jones  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/10/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14467399 gtt350 said:
Quote:
would be in Denver.I think John Elway knows QB talent. We have a future all pro.


Forget Jones for a second. Why are you given to think Elways knows QB talent? All he's done since 2014 is fail at that.
RE: RE: RE: Again...  
UberAlias : 6/10/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14468015 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14467876 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 14467776 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


this is not a "he's going to be great" vs. "he was over-drafted" argument.

The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.

The alternative would certainly be drawing the ire of fans and media everywhere.

Fair enough Eric. But you have to look at the context. This team has been bad, and for a long time. The rot has been there from the top down. In terms of scouting, there seems to be be improvement (though many here way jumping the gun on that, even then) but there has also been a lot of questionable moves. That doesn't mean bad, but given the recent history, I would suggest some skepticism is warranted.

So, yes, it's nice to hear some encouraging things about the young QB. At the same time, the guy was the #6 overall pick in the draft, so the bar is going to be very high. He could be good player and still not be "good enough". That luxury was lost when the team decided Jones was "too good" to risk not being there at 17.

The matter is complicated further with this nonsense about handing the position to Eli and declaring it his unconditionally provided the team remains in contention. So we have Jones learning fast. Great --so he'll be ready for action, but won't actually see any. Not unless we're sitting at home watching meaningless football...again. So I'll add this to the list of questionable big picture decisions.



If Jones turns out to be 'the goods' a franchise QB always trumps everything else when it is an immediate need position or upcoming need position in the near future (within 1 year maybe even 2). Even a great ER.

In our case our starting QB is 39 and on the last year of his contract. this is quite likely Elis last year here and this team isn't expecting to be picking in the top 10 in the next few drafts. DG has rebuilt a heck of a foundation here and improved a lot of the building blocks and of course the culture. I think it pays dividends starting next year.
I agree that a franchise QB trumps any of that. But the expectations in investment from 6 verses 17 is a consideration. We need more than just "a guy you can win with".

As far for your comments about DG building a heck of a foundation --you have no way of knowing that at this point. That's a fan perspective held by many on this board. But I know a great number of fans who don;t share that feeling as well as most every non-fan. Let's not confuse un-validated opinion with fact.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14468169 UberAlias said:
Quote:


I agree that a franchise QB trumps any of that. But the expectations in investment from 6 verses 17 is a consideration. We need more than just "a guy you can win with".

As far for your comments about DG building a heck of a foundation --you have no way of knowing that at this point. That's a fan perspective held by many on this board. But I know a great number of fans who don;t share that feeling as well as most every non-fan. Let's not confuse un-validated opinion with fact.


I wouldn't put too much weight into the opinions of biased non-fans. We all know most fans of other teams don't research the young players on the Giants. They base their opinion of the Giants on whatever ESPN is telling them.
RE: ...  
Thegratefulhead : 6/10/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14467869 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I seem to have struck a nerve here and I'm not sure why.

EARLY reports on Daniel Jones could be good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. They have been good. Not sure why this a bad or controversial thing.

Bw in dc... per your post... I must have missed those national reports saying Jones is doing well. I keep hearing that Haskins was the better choice.
I have heard numerous national reports that Jones is doing very well and Haskins has looked much worse than Keenum. I think the Giants are trying to hush the Jones stuff but the players are letting the cat out of the bag. It is possible Jones blows a Giant hole in the farewell tour with accelerated development.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
UberAlias : 6/10/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14468191 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14468169 UberAlias said:


Quote:




I agree that a franchise QB trumps any of that. But the expectations in investment from 6 verses 17 is a consideration. We need more than just "a guy you can win with".

As far for your comments about DG building a heck of a foundation --you have no way of knowing that at this point. That's a fan perspective held by many on this board. But I know a great number of fans who don;t share that feeling as well as most every non-fan. Let's not confuse un-validated opinion with fact.



I wouldn't put too much weight into the opinions of biased non-fans. We all know most fans of other teams don't research the young players on the Giants. They base their opinion of the Giants on whatever ESPN is telling them.
Bias non-fans? What about bias fans? There is more than a share of homerism around here. Sometimes get the idea this team is littered with all pros.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14468211 UberAlias said:
Quote:


Bias non-fans? What about bias fans? There is more than a share of homerism around here. Sometimes get the idea this team is littered with all pros.

What a gross exaggeration. There is only about 1-2 posters who you could argue that are like that but you are using them to represent all of BBI. Show me some examples of all these posters. I see people who are excited about the direction of the team but that is a far cry from homerism. If you want to see homerism check out fanofthejets or aceinthehouse posts.
Wait a minute  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 2:00 pm : link
Aren't you the poster who claimed that Anthony Davis to the Giants was a done deal?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
Giantz_comeback : 6/10/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14468169 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14468015 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:


In comment 14467876 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 14467776 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


this is not a "he's going to be great" vs. "he was over-drafted" argument.

The point is that he has performed as well as could be expected through June, both mentally and physically. And that fact in my book has been under-reported and underappreciated.

The alternative would certainly be drawing the ire of fans and media everywhere.

Fair enough Eric. But you have to look at the context. This team has been bad, and for a long time. The rot has been there from the top down. In terms of scouting, there seems to be be improvement (though many here way jumping the gun on that, even then) but there has also been a lot of questionable moves. That doesn't mean bad, but given the recent history, I would suggest some skepticism is warranted.

So, yes, it's nice to hear some encouraging things about the young QB. At the same time, the guy was the #6 overall pick in the draft, so the bar is going to be very high. He could be good player and still not be "good enough". That luxury was lost when the team decided Jones was "too good" to risk not being there at 17.

The matter is complicated further with this nonsense about handing the position to Eli and declaring it his unconditionally provided the team remains in contention. So we have Jones learning fast. Great --so he'll be ready for action, but won't actually see any. Not unless we're sitting at home watching meaningless football...again. So I'll add this to the list of questionable big picture decisions.



If Jones turns out to be 'the goods' a franchise QB always trumps everything else when it is an immediate need position or upcoming need position in the near future (within 1 year maybe even 2). Even a great ER.

In our case our starting QB is 39 and on the last year of his contract. this is quite likely Elis last year here and this team isn't expecting to be picking in the top 10 in the next few drafts. DG has rebuilt a heck of a foundation here and improved a lot of the building blocks and of course the culture. I think it pays dividends starting next year.

I agree that a franchise QB trumps any of that. But the expectations in investment from 6 verses 17 is a consideration. We need more than just "a guy you can win with".

As far for your comments about DG building a heck of a foundation --you have no way of knowing that at this point. That's a fan perspective held by many on this board. But I know a great number of fans who don;t share that feeling as well as most every non-fan. Let's not confuse un-validated opinion with fact.


Some is hope for sure but the early returns on the top rooks from last year are very encouraging. Bark,Willie, BJ Hill, Carter all 4 showed varying levels of promise.

Zietler is at minumum an established high functioning LG. Peppers and Bethea at minumum should be much better fitting peices at S in this D

Tate is a professional WR who catches everything and knows how to make the first guy miss.

Will the youth gel quickly on D that to me is the biggest question. The OL barring injury should be solidly improved over what we saw when they became merely passable in the 2nd half last year.
RE: I think the pt is  
TMS : 6/10/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14468124 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Up to now Jones has justified his draft position, passing all the tests OTA s and mini camp present.

The need for all the disclaimers seems to be spawned by those who felt he was a poor pick at that spot. Once again the need to be correct seems to trump taking pleasure and or hope in positive news if it is contrary to what a posters own desires were for this team
. It appears DG and his management team were sold on DJ and were glad to get him this year, even at #6. It was this year or next to take a potential EM successor. It would have cost a lot more next year to get that player in the draft. Reports sound good so far. Worry about how long it will take for all these new faces to play well as a team. That the next big test.
RE: Wait a minute  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/10/2019 2:31 pm : link
In comment 14468277 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Aren't you the poster who claimed that Anthony Davis to the Giants was a done deal?

That was area junc.
Lol area junk  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/10/2019 2:32 pm : link
.
RE: RE: DG played his cards perfectly or Jones  
Mr. Bungle : 6/10/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14468161 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14467399 gtt350 said:


Quote:


would be in Denver.I think John Elway knows QB talent. We have a future all pro.



Forget Jones for a second. Why are you given to think Elways knows QB talent? All he's done since 2014 is fail at that.

I'm not sure gtt knows what "All Pro" means, either. Unless he really does think Jones will the THE best QB in the entire NFL at some point.
RE: RE: I think the pt is  
Giantz_comeback : 6/10/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14468309 TMS said:
Quote:
In comment 14468124 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Up to now Jones has justified his draft position, passing all the tests OTA s and mini camp present.

The need for all the disclaimers seems to be spawned by those who felt he was a poor pick at that spot. Once again the need to be correct seems to trump taking pleasure and or hope in positive news if it is contrary to what a posters own desires were for this team

. It appears DG and his management team were sold on DJ and were glad to get him this year, even at #6. It was this year or next to take a potential EM successor. It would have cost a lot more next year to get that player in the draft. Reports sound good so far. Worry about how long it will take for all these new faces to play well as a team. That the next big test.


Exactly and it's mostly on defense. The offense should pick up where they left off in the 2nd half pretty quickly.
RE: RE: ...  
bw in dc : 6/10/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14468210 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14467869 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I seem to have struck a nerve here and I'm not sure why.

EARLY reports on Daniel Jones could be good, bad, or somewhere in the middle. They have been good. Not sure why this a bad or controversial thing.

Bw in dc... per your post... I must have missed those national reports saying Jones is doing well. I keep hearing that Haskins was the better choice.

I have heard numerous national reports that Jones is doing very well and Haskins has looked much worse than Keenum. I think the Giants are trying to hush the Jones stuff but the players are letting the cat out of the bag. It is possible Jones blows a Giant hole in the farewell tour with accelerated development.


Thanks. That's exactly how I have heard it. Living here in the DC area, there has been a lot of mixed reviews thus far on Haskins. He's been very inconsistent day to day, series to series.

I don't like the Jones pick (see him as second round value), but would have equally disappointed in Haskins. I still think he was hugely overrated.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
UberAlias : 6/10/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14468276 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14468211 UberAlias said:


Quote:




Bias non-fans? What about bias fans? There is more than a share of homerism around here. Sometimes get the idea this team is littered with all pros.


What a gross exaggeration. There is only about 1-2 posters who you could argue that are like that but you are using them to represent all of BBI. Show me some examples of all these posters. I see people who are excited about the direction of the team but that is a far cry from homerism. If you want to see homerism check out fanofthejets or aceinthehouse posts.
Homerism only exists for other other teams I guess, is that it? I guess you've never followed a training camp around here with all of the home town camp superstars. The team has been bad for a long time, yet every year there is more than a share of optimism following the draft through camp. Before the 2017 season the consensus was this team was a SB contender. We consistently overrate any young player who show any sign of promise. We crap all over JR drafts now, but at the time, there was nearly always optimism following. For many there is a clear pattern -even if they don't like a draft initially, they will invariably "come around" to it (i.e. talk themselves into it) in the days or weeks following as they read things. We saw this in how many JR drafts that ultimately yielded zero for us in a short order. This is the research you speak of, but there is unquestionable bias' in play. I used to laugh at Jets fans always hyping some unknown guy as the next thing. We have that here too, admit it or not.
Got it  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 5:01 pm : link
So praising Jones' progress is the same as hyping him as "the next thing."
RE: Got it  
UberAlias : 6/10/2019 5:09 pm : link
In comment 14468439 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
So praising Jones' progress is the same as hyping him as "the next thing."
Nothing wrong with praising Jones. Not sure where you got that, but okay...
Of course every fan base has homers  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 5:09 pm : link
As someone who lived in Maryland for 5 years I can assure you that no fan base has more than the Redskins. I guess the correct term is delusional.
RE: RE: Got it  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14468449 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14468439 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


So praising Jones' progress is the same as hyping him as "the next thing."

Nothing wrong with praising Jones. Not sure where you got that, but okay...

Well you said that people here are claiming that this team is filled with all-pro's but I don't see anyone stating that. I see people posting reactions to these OTA and minicamp reports but from what I am seeing most of them are remaining cautiously optimistic. I asked for current examples and you started talking about the Reese era, 2017, etc.

There is reason's to be excited but this team is still at least a year away but it appears to be heading in the right direction. If Saquon Barkley doesn't get you excited then I don't know what will. This team still has plenty of holes but there are fewer than there was were when Gettleman first arrived.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again...  
giantstock : 6/10/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14468425 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14468276 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14468211 UberAlias said:


Quote:




Bias non-fans? What about bias fans? There is more than a share of homerism around here. Sometimes get the idea this team is littered with all pros.


What a gross exaggeration. There is only about 1-2 posters who you could argue that are like that but you are using them to represent all of BBI. Show me some examples of all these posters. I see people who are excited about the direction of the team but that is a far cry from homerism. If you want to see homerism check out fanofthejets or aceinthehouse posts.

Homerism only exists for other other teams I guess, is that it? I guess you've never followed a training camp around here with all of the home town camp superstars. The team has been bad for a long time, yet every year there is more than a share of optimism following the draft through camp. Before the 2017 season the consensus was this team was a SB contender. We consistently overrate any young player who show any sign of promise. We crap all over JR drafts now, but at the time, there was nearly always optimism following. For many there is a clear pattern -even if they don't like a draft initially, they will invariably "come around" to it (i.e. talk themselves into it) in the days or weeks following as they read things. We saw this in how many JR drafts that ultimately yielded zero for us in a short order. This is the research you speak of, but there is unquestionable bias' in play. I used to laugh at Jets fans always hyping some unknown guy as the next thing. We have that here too, admit it or not.


+1
So what do we call him ... ?  
Manny in CA : 6/10/2019 7:41 pm : link

"Daniel Jones," Jones", "Daniel", "Dan" , "the kid" ... ?

As I recall, we didn't have a problem calling Eli, just "Eli" right from the beginning.
I think I recall someone mentioning Barkley  
BSIMatt : 6/10/2019 7:53 pm : link
Referring to Jones as DJ in practices.
Sounds good to me ....  
Manny in CA : 6/10/2019 8:16 pm : link

DJ it is !
His nickname in HS was Swag  
George from PA : 6/11/2019 3:27 am : link
And he goes by Daniel......no one calls him Dan, Danny, etc.
RE: Doesnt seem fair that he wont get a real shot  
Leg of Theismann : 6/11/2019 3:34 am : link
In comment 14467373 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
To win the starting job.it flies against everything fans preach about wanting players to hold jobs on merit.


What are you talking about? As "impressive" as he has been it is quite clear (and the article even states this) that he is far from being ready to supplant Eli as the starter. Eli is going to be the starter because in 2019 he will clearly be the best QB in a Giants uniform.
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