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Keenum/Fitzpatrick outplaying Haskins/Rosen in mini camps

BSIMatt : 6/10/2019 12:57 pm
To contrast the glowing reports on Daniel Jones performance thus far and why Eric might be right that it shouldn't be easily dismissed...

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Barring Rosen lighting up the sky from his opening practices like Dan Marino in 1983 ó ďYouíve got something,íí guard Bob Kuechenberg told Don Shula during Marinoís first workouts ó the next best thing happened.

Rosen didnít light up the sky. No one said the Dolphins have something. He looked fine, at times, but Fitzpatrick outplayed Rosen in these pad-less workouts to the point The Greybeard drew raves against The Kid.

This isnít a game-ender, game-changer or have anything to do with a game in September, despite the annual idea that an NFL spring (or often, summer) means something meaningful. This was a time of learning more than playing for a young quarterback in a new system.

These practices, however, served a purpose for Rosen. They became another wake-up call for Rosen in an offseason full of alarm clocks sounding around him. If he isnít dog-hungry upon returning, heíll never be considering the shovelfuls of humility thrown his way.

Hyde: Hereís the good news of Josh Rosen not wowing Dolphins (or anyone) out the gates


Quote:

Case Keenum

Keenum got better... and better... and better each time he took the field for the 'Skins. Dwayne Haskins will always have the brighter moments, but Keenum was way more steady than the rookie and dealt with pressure far better than No. 7.

Was that necessarily surprising? Of course not; Keenum's a 31-year-old vet and Haskins has been in the NFL for a little more than a month. But Keenum now looks like he's in the lead for the starting job, even though Gruden wouldn't admit it.

Minicamp stock up, stock down: Which Redskins stood out for the right and wrong reasons?

On top of that, for all the talk of minimal contact, and playing in shorts..for some reason talk of Washington's juggernaut front 7 is used to rationalize the play of Haskins when he struggles...even though the QB can't be hit and they are in shorts..just like in Giantsland.

Just posting that for some context to the idea that everyone looks good in shorts in minicamp...no, they really don't.
Fitz has a habit of looking like  
section125 : 6/10/2019 1:01 pm : link
HoF and then he doesn't. It would make sense that a well seasoned vet would look better than a 1 year (got the shit kicked out of him) pro.

Likewise in DC.
in fairness to Haskins  
giants#1 : 6/10/2019 1:08 pm : link
you'd shit your pants if Flowers was protecting your blindside too!
I am not the least bit surprised  
Jay on the Island : 6/10/2019 1:08 pm : link
that Fitz is looking better than Rosen so far. Fitz has had far more time to learn the offense than Rosen. Rosen is already in his 4th offense in just over 1 year in the league. Plus Fitzpatrick has been in the NFL for over a decade so he should be looking solid in OTA's and minicamp.

As for Haskins one thing stood out to me. He is struggling against pressure when there is no contact. What happens when there is actual contact and he is facing consistent pressure especially if Trent Williams is no longer on the team?
Giants optimists - good sign  
giants#1 : 6/10/2019 1:10 pm : link
that Giants made the right choice with Jones over Haskins/Rosen.

Giants pessimists - further proof Eli is cooked.
RE: I am not the least bit surprised  
giants#1 : 6/10/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14468225 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
that Fitz is looking better than Rosen so far. Fitz has had far more time to learn the offense than Rosen. Rosen is already in his 4th offense in just over 1 year in the league. Plus Fitzpatrick has been in the NFL for over a decade so he should be looking solid in OTA's and minicamp.

As for Haskins one thing stood out to me. He is struggling against pressure when there is no contact. What happens when there is actual contact and he is facing consistent pressure especially if Trent Williams is no longer on the team?


IIRC, Fitz has also played in a similar style offense before.
RE: in fairness to Haskins  
BSIMatt : 6/10/2019 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14468222 giants#1 said:
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you'd shit your pants if Flowers was protecting your blindside too!


You know what, you are absolutely right...Haskins gets a pass...if Flowers was "protecting" him at Ohio State he may not have been drafted.
RE: RE: in fairness to Haskins  
giants#1 : 6/10/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14468232 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
In comment 14468222 giants#1 said:


Quote:


you'd shit your pants if Flowers was protecting your blindside too!



You know what, you are absolutely right...Haskins gets a pass...if Flowers was "protecting" him at Ohio State he may not have been drafted.


It's amazing Eli survived 3.5 years with Flowers. That should significantly burnish his HOF credentials!
Go look up the Wonderlic scores of all parties mentioned,  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/10/2019 1:25 pm : link
along with Daniel Jones.

Yeah in the mental part of the game so far the higher wonderlic score guys are outperforming the lower ones...

Keenum is the only one I am not SURE scored highly, but IIRC indeed he did.

Rosen scored like 28, Haskins maybe 25, and I think Lock (not mentioned above) scored 28 also.

Among Keenum, Fitzpatrick and Jones, Jones had the lowest wonderlic score at 37.

At this point it's a mental game more than anything else, because once real bullets fly the Wonderlic score don't seem to matter as much.
Rosen is going to wilt....this is the first adversity he has ever been  
Zeke's Alibi : 6/10/2019 1:27 pm : link
thrown in his life since he became the annointed one at UCLA.
Objectively, it could also mean Manning is more toast than the others  
Ben in Tampa : 6/10/2019 1:31 pm : link
However, I think the Giants are going to be very happy they didnít get in on the Rosen trade. Clearly there is a reason the Cardinals ended up moving him in a fire sale.

I am very high on Daniel Jones right now, and Iím glad we have him and not Haskins. Time will tell.
RE: Go look up the Wonderlic scores of all parties mentioned,  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/10/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14468242 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
along with Daniel Jones.

Yeah in the mental part of the game so far the higher wonderlic score guys are outperforming the lower ones...

Keenum is the only one I am not SURE scored highly, but IIRC indeed he did.

Rosen scored like 28, Haskins maybe 25, and I think Lock (not mentioned above) scored 28 also.

Among Keenum, Fitzpatrick and Jones, Jones had the lowest wonderlic score at 37.

At this point it's a mental game more than anything else, because once real bullets fly the Wonderlic score don't seem to matter as much.

Also the work ethic, you want a Peyton Manning talking about plays for next year with the coach right after winning the SB making Dungy sad kind of obsessiveness. Hard to scout, no score for that. Seems like what Rosen lacks, along with Haskins I would conjecture.
RE: Fitz has a habit of looking like  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/10/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14468207 section125 said:
Quote:
HoF and then he doesn't. It would make sense that a well seasoned vet would look better than a 1 year (got the shit kicked out of him) pro.

Likewise in DC.


This. Heís an INT machine and a coach killer. Rosen should sit anyway. Let him learn the system for 6-10 games.

Haskins is a true rookie. Keenum should look better. He sucks. Hope he starts. Wash is the only team for sure who the Giants should beat at least once
I donít care if they all are good  
giantsFC : 6/10/2019 1:36 pm : link
As long as Daniele jones is also really good.

If not itís a disaster no matter what
Daniel  
giantsFC : 6/10/2019 1:36 pm : link
Not knocking him
RE: Daniel  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/10/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14468257 giantsFC said:
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Not knocking him

If he sucks at least we'll have a good nickname for him at the ready.
Can't find keenum's wonderlic test result now in a quick search.  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/10/2019 1:43 pm : link
But found an interesting article about the wonderlic test's result predictive feature, combined with other metrics, for QB success.

Linked.
Wonderlic score, games started, and completion % predictive model - ( New Window )
RE: Rosen is going to wilt....this is the first adversity he has ever been  
section125 : 6/10/2019 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14468245 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
thrown in his life since he became the annointed one at UCLA.


did you miss last year or just being sarcastic?
RE: RE: Go look up the Wonderlic scores of all parties mentioned,  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/10/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14468254 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14468242 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


along with Daniel Jones.

Yeah in the mental part of the game so far the higher wonderlic score guys are outperforming the lower ones...

Keenum is the only one I am not SURE scored highly, but IIRC indeed he did.

Rosen scored like 28, Haskins maybe 25, and I think Lock (not mentioned above) scored 28 also.

Among Keenum, Fitzpatrick and Jones, Jones had the lowest wonderlic score at 37.

At this point it's a mental game more than anything else, because once real bullets fly the Wonderlic score don't seem to matter as much.


Also the work ethic, you want a Peyton Manning talking about plays for next year with the coach right after winning the SB making Dungy sad kind of obsessiveness. Hard to scout, no score for that. Seems like what Rosen lacks, along with Haskins I would conjecture.


Don't need to travel all the way to Peyton re work ethic. No. 10 is pretty good at that end of the business too. But agree, it seems the hardest part to really scout accurately. I think that's why Drew Lock dropped to the 2nd round.
RE: RE: Rosen is going to wilt....this is the first adversity he has ever been  
81_Great_Dane : 6/10/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14468263 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14468245 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


thrown in his life since he became the annointed one at UCLA.



did you miss last year or just being sarcastic?
He didn't exactly glide through UCLA either. The Bruins weren't a powerhouse while he was there, either. Kelly's system that didn't fit him, and he lost significant time to injury (as was discussed ad nauseam on BBI).
I do not no why everyone was enamored with Rosen.  
short lease : 6/10/2019 2:08 pm : link

I never liked him. Arizona got rid of him after 1 year. If he showed any real potential they would have not made a back to back QB pick in the first round 2 years in a row.

The only guys I thought had potential in last year's draft is Mayfield (the man has balls and is a competitor) and Darnold.

Glad the Giants took Barkley over Darnold though.
Haskins would have dropped to the second round  
RobCarpenter : 6/10/2019 2:26 pm : link
Or later - if Danny hadn't drafted him.
RE: Giants optimists - good sign  
Nine-Tails : 6/10/2019 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14468227 giants#1 said:
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that Giants made the right choice with Jones over Haskins/Rosen.

Giants pessimists - further proof Eli is cooked.


Both, lol I was a big Rosen fan before the draft and was intrigued by the possibility of getting him this year, but the lack of interest from the league was a clear sign that something is wrong.
RE: Haskins would have dropped to the second round  
Nine-Tails : 6/10/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14468308 RobCarpenter said:
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Or later - if Danny hadn't drafted him.


Definitely a possbility, though Snyder may have just got him at 26 instead. Haskins is a very flawed prospect, that I for one would not invest a first round pick. Slow feet, 14 starts, top notch talent around him, possible family and personality concerns.
Young QBs are expected to struggle early  
AcesUp : 6/10/2019 3:25 pm : link
The fact that Jones hasn't to this point is encouraging for sure.
RE: RE: Haskins would have dropped to the second round  
RobCarpenter : 6/10/2019 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14468348 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14468308 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


Or later - if Danny hadn't drafted him.



Definitely a possbility, though Snyder may have just got him at 26 instead. Haskins is a very flawed prospect, that I for one would not invest a first round pick. Slow feet, 14 starts, top notch talent around him, possible family and personality concerns.


Personality concerns are the biggest red flag to me.
RE: RE: Haskins would have dropped to the second round  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 6/10/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14468348 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14468308 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


Or later - if Danny hadn't drafted him.



Definitely a possbility, though Snyder may have just got him at 26 instead. Haskins is a very flawed prospect, that I for one would not invest a first round pick. Slow feet, 14 starts, top notch talent around him, possible family and personality concerns.

It was kind of wtf and very telling Jones was at the draft and Haskins was not, draft "expert" consensus was an irreality.
I don't get it  
Milton : 6/10/2019 9:44 pm : link
Eli sucked in his first minicamps and it turned out to be much ado about nothing. What did we learn from that? We learned that OTA/minicamps are about learning the plays, not evaluating the talent.
RE: RE: RE: Haskins would have dropped to the second round  
j_rud : 6/10/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14468473 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14468348 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14468308 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


Or later - if Danny hadn't drafted him.



Definitely a possbility, though Snyder may have just got him at 26 instead. Haskins is a very flawed prospect, that I for one would not invest a first round pick. Slow feet, 14 starts, top notch talent around him, possible family and personality concerns.


It was kind of wtf and very telling Jones was at the draft and Haskins was not, draft "expert" consensus was an irreality.


Why go to the draft when you can hang in a bowling alley with your family and the handful of sad souls who paid your dad to be there?
To the OP  
giantstock : 6/12/2019 9:51 pm : link
Eric was not right.
And
Eric was not wrong.

The mini-camp means something to him.-- Great. It doesn't mean it has to mean anything to anyone else. If he sees the value-- great.

In regards to if you think it's a important with these mini-camps that it means anything.

Wentz and Mahomes were't impressive per the below links. Does this mean Jones will be better than both? No. It means nothing. The 3rd string QB's were more impressive according to both articles though it didn't mean they were better. But neither player was highlighted as being "impressive." If the camps couldn't pick up these guys and this is "recent history" why should we believe there is much to take from it?

https://www.phillyvoice.com/five-players-who-impressed-eagles-otas-and-minicamps-five-who-did-not/

https://610sports.radio.com/blogs/stephen-serda/way-too-early-otas-reaction-patrick-mahomes



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