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Thoughts on Shurmur gleaned from podcasts...

BlueLou'sBack : 6/11/2019 10:45 am
Primarily the Evan Engram and Hernandez/Zeitler interviews on The Huddle at Giants.com, and the Turchyn & Schneier hour long examination of DJ8.

Evan Engram in response to questions about the change in head coaches he's had as a Giant said McAdoo's offense was simple and easy to assimilate, and that Shurmur's is more complex and more detailed and getting even moreso in year two via additions.

It struck me that McAdoo, never even having been an OC before he came to the Giants, was simply out of his depth on the chalkboard concepts he tried to run here., and certainly wasn't maximizing part of Eli's strongest suit.

Hernandez also spoke about Shurmur in a different way (PS is his 1st NFL head coach), talking about Shurmur's knowledge and detailed expectations of OL. He also made sure to point out that PS was an "All American OC" when playing at Michigan State.

Turchyn and Schneier spoke about how Jones fits what PS wants, but also noted that PS will likely tailor his system to Jones' weaknesses if he can't teach and train those weaknesses out of him. They specifically addressed Jones problems throwing outside the hashmarks to his left side when the left side is also the wide side of the field - ie when the ball as it the right hashmark at the play's start.
They noted that Jones has a specific tendency - more than a tendency Turchyn actually said, he said Jones does it every single time he's throwing outside the hash left when the ball was centered on the right hash - to hop slide to his left and to add unnecessary time to his left side throws, and ruin the whole "throwing on anticipation" factor to the left side.

Turchyn felt, if PS couldn't train that footwork/delay trait out of Jones' game, he'd likely simply ask Jones to roll left to get to "his spot" so that Jones would be comfortable making those throws wide left...

All this together tells me that the Giants' players, as well as outside observers, have a ton of respect for PS.

That IMO feeds into why the team fought for him long after they fell out of contention for anything. Also some of PS own statements about how Corey Coleman was asking him about the use of Thielen and Diggs at Minnesota, shows a respect of PS by yet another player.

Your thoughts, comments?
I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
George from PA : 6/11/2019 10:52 am : link
Were due to having less then professional level talent.

His delays....sounded like he was waiting for receivers to run their routes.

Shumurs is considered a QB whisperer.

So as long as OL holds up....offense should not be the issue
RE: I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
BlueLou'sBack : 6/11/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14469164 George from PA said:
Quote:
Were due to having less then professional level talent.

His delays....sounded like he was waiting for receivers to run their routes.

Shumurs is considered a QB whisperer.

So as long as OL holds up....offense should not be the issue


The issue about throwing left - I don't see how that could relate to his surrounding talent. You need to listen to the podcast, Turchyn and Schneier were cognizant of the surrounding talent issue and really separated it out of their analysis, IMO.
I heard it....  
George from PA : 6/11/2019 11:06 am : link
but like everything....they saw 5 games, so how large of a sample size could it have been.
RE: I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
Ben in Tampa : 6/11/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14469164 George from PA said:
Quote:
Were due to having less then professional level talent.

His delays....sounded like he was waiting for receivers to run their routes.

Shumurs is considered a QB whisperer.

So as long as OL holds up....offense should not be the issue


For what it is worth, I recently spoke with a father of a Duke player who came up with Jones and he really believed that with better talent that Jones was going to be excellent. And his son was a Duke WR! He said DJ was one of the best athletes hes ever seen.
RE: RE: I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
Section331 : 6/11/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14469167 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:

The issue about throwing left - I don't see how that could relate to his surrounding talent. You need to listen to the podcast, Turchyn and Schneier were cognizant of the surrounding talent issue and really separated it out of their analysis, IMO.


They did a good job on that podcast, but I think this is a correctable bad habit. Jones' footwork in general needs some work. I found in interesting how they felt that Eli's footwork improved after McAdoo got here. At least he did something right!
Shurmur has a lot to prove  
HomerJones45 : 6/11/2019 12:10 pm : link
He was a failure with the Browns. After he was fired, the Eagles refused to hire him. The Vikes hired him as a TE coach so at that point in his career, he was stepping backward. He had one year as the Vikings OC where they were 10th in yards and 11th in points scored and he wasn't exactly a hot HC commodity. Here, he reverted to his now seemingly typical 5 win season.

Where he got this reputation as a qb whisperer or anything else whisperer is a mystery. He has a lot to prove.
RE: Shurmur has a lot to prove  
Now Mike in MD : 6/11/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14469279 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He was a failure with the Browns. After he was fired, the Eagles refused to hire him. The Vikes hired him as a TE coach so at that point in his career, he was stepping backward. He had one year as the Vikings OC where they were 10th in yards and 11th in points scored and he wasn't exactly a hot HC commodity. Here, he reverted to his now seemingly typical 5 win season.

Where he got this reputation as a qb whisperer or anything else whisperer is a mystery. He has a lot to prove.


There is a lot of mystery but in this post. Why is he considered a QB whisperer? Maybe because he took the incredibly mediocre Case Keenum and had him playing at a PB level? 98.3 QBR is such an outlier for Keenum's career how do you not attribute at least some of it to PS? Also, considering the dysfunction surrounding the Browns, calling his tenure there a failure is misplaced.
RE: Shurmur has a lot to prove  
MOOPS : 6/11/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14469279 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He was a failure with the Browns. After he was fired, the Eagles refused to hire him. The Vikes hired him as a TE coach so at that point in his career, he was stepping backward. He had one year as the Vikings OC where they were 10th in yards and 11th in points scored and he wasn't exactly a hot HC commodity. Here, he reverted to his now seemingly typical 5 win season.

Where he got this reputation as a qb whisperer or anything else whisperer is a mystery. He has a lot to prove.


Colt McCoy and Brandon Weeden. You can't make poppies out of poop.
RE: RE: I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
gmenatlarge : 6/11/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14469204 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14469164 George from PA said:


Quote:


Were due to having less then professional level talent.

His delays....sounded like he was waiting for receivers to run their routes.

Shumurs is considered a QB whisperer.

So as long as OL holds up....offense should not be the issue



For what it is worth, I recently spoke with a father of a Duke player who came up with Jones and he really believed that with better talent that Jones was going to be excellent. And his son was a Duke WR! He said DJ was one of the best athletes hes ever seen.


Of course he isn't biased...
RE: Shurmur has a lot to prove  
Milton : 6/11/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14469279 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He was a failure with the Browns.
The Browns were a failure with him.

After getting fired by the Browns, Belichick went 5-11 in his first year with the Patriots. But he won a Super Bowl in year two and followed that up with several more. I'm expecting a similar trajectory from Shurmur!
RE: Shurmur has a lot to prove  
Ben in Tampa : 6/11/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14469279 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He was a failure with the Browns. After he was fired, the Eagles refused to hire him. The Vikes hired him as a TE coach so at that point in his career, he was stepping backward. He had one year as the Vikings OC where they were 10th in yards and 11th in points scored and he wasn't exactly a hot HC commodity. Here, he reverted to his now seemingly typical 5 win season.

Where he got this reputation as a qb whisperer or anything else whisperer is a mystery. He has a lot to prove.


What? I don't love Shurmur, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

He ran the offense for the Eagles from 2013-2015 after his Browns stint. He earned the QB whisper stuff from his work with McNabb, Sam Bradford rookie year (his best year), Nick Foles 1st breakout year in Philly and then Keenum in Minnesota.
RE: Shurmur has a lot to prove  
BSIMatt : 6/11/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14469279 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
He was a failure with the Browns. After he was fired, the Eagles refused to hire him. The Vikes hired him as a TE coach so at that point in his career, he was stepping backward. He had one year as the Vikings OC where they were 10th in yards and 11th in points scored and he wasn't exactly a hot HC commodity. Here, he reverted to his now seemingly typical 5 win season.

Where he got this reputation as a qb whisperer or anything else whisperer is a mystery. He has a lot to prove.


This seems a tad harsh.
RE: RE: I am curious how mch of Daniel Jones issues  
Bill L : 6/11/2019 3:34 pm : link
In comment 14469204 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14469164 George from PA said:


Quote:


Were due to having less then professional level talent.

His delays....sounded like he was waiting for receivers to run their routes.

Shumurs is considered a QB whisperer.

So as long as OL holds up....offense should not be the issue



For what it is worth, I recently spoke with a father of a Duke player who came up with Jones and he really believed that with better talent that Jones was going to be excellent. And his son was a Duke WR! He said DJ was one of the best athletes hes ever seen.


DI he comment on why his son couldn't catch? A little ironic in the sense that the WR's need to stick up for Jones who looks like a poor choice because of...you know...the WR's.
The hitching/drifting in the pocket issue  
BSIMatt : 6/12/2019 11:10 am : link
Seems to be a common issue among quarterbacks coming out. I've read that several times now, even on Baker Mayfield last year, coming out it was right in his scouting report..would hitch up in pocket and invite his own pressure.

I thought Shurmur was the best playcaller we've had  
Eric on Li : 6/12/2019 12:00 pm : link
and what we saw last year was backed up by his prior track record.

He doesn't have the biggest personality though and good OC's have failed as HC's before (norv turner).

IMO his ultimate success will come down to how well he surrounds himself with exception assistants (particularly on the defensive side). But that's true of just about anyone in a management position. If you don't surround yourself with highly competent people it's hard to succeed.
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