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NFT: Mets at Yankees GDT 6/11 Doubleheader

Jints in Carolina : 6/11/2019 10:57 am
NYM
Jeff McNeil (L) 2B
Michael Conforto (L) RF
Pete Alonso (R) DH
Dominic Smith (L) 1B
Todd Frazier (R) 3B
J.D. Davis (R) LF
Amed Rosario (R) SS
Tomas Nido (R) C
Juan Lagares (R) CF

NYY
DJ LeMahieu (R) 2B
Aaron Hicks (S) CF
Luke Voit (R) DH
Gary Sanchez (R) C
Didi Gregorius (L) SS
Clint Frazier (R) RF
Kendrys Morales (S) 1B
Gio Urshela (R) 3B
Brett Gardner (L) LF

Wheeler vs. Tanaka

74 degrees at first pitch, no chance of rain.

GO YANKEES
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RE: This is a great thread to archive for when a yankee fan wonders  
Mike Graves : 6/11/2019 10:54 pm : link
In comment 14469953 JayBinQueens said:
Quote:
Why other fans hate them



Yea and met fans are just dandy. Your fan base is a complete joke. I cant tell you the amount of met fans that worry more what the Yankees do then there own team. Howís taking back New York doing?///
Link - ( New Window )
You have incited the magnanimous Mike Graves  
adamg : 6/11/2019 10:56 pm : link
You have erred to the extreme....
As a Yankee fan, I cannot defend my people  
adamg : 6/11/2019 10:59 pm : link
There are a lot of shitty Yankee fans. It comes with having the most fans. There's a lot of bandwagon on bandwagon. As a fourth generation (and therefore legitimate and "old money") Yankee fan, I can only watch in horror as the proletariat act as they do. The heathens.
I don't hate the Mets at all - I have great memories from '69 and '73  
Del Shofner : 6/11/2019 11:28 pm : link
when the Yanks sucked and the Mets were the only game in town. I root for the Mets to win when they're playing anyone other than the Yanks. I also feel bad about the Mets' owners from the fans' viewpoint, just as I'm sure some people feel bad that I as a Knicks fan am stuck with Dolan.

Look, it is what it is. Imagine if the internet had been around in the '50s when the Giants, Dodgers and Yanks were all in NYC and frequently met in the World Series. We'd have constant meltdowns.
The Mets have some good young players.  
Hsilwek92 : 6/12/2019 12:14 am : link
Alonso is a stud.
RE: Upcoming Mets Roster Moves  
giantsFC : 6/12/2019 12:38 am : link
In comment 14469991 Samiam said:
Quote:
Who gets sent down when Cano and Nimmo get activated? No easy choices. Guessing either Santiago or Peterson when Wilson is back. Any chance they go with 12 pitchers? Also, when Lowrie, comes, itíll really get interesting unless thereís an injury.


Mickey Mouse will make the worst decision. Thatís all that is a guarantee.

Prob will be Dom Smith again. Followed by JD Davis. Bc thatís how we roll on the south side
It is what it is as the Internet brings out the worst in people  
bhill410 : 6/12/2019 4:09 am : link
Considering itís a giants message board and not a jets message board I would hope folks would be a little bit more cordial but thatís a pipe dream. We canít even have a normal discourse on Eli Manning or Jones and we all want either/or to do well, so yankee/Mets really brings out some craziness.
Works out OK actually  
dpinzow : 6/12/2019 6:24 am : link
Rays and Red Sox both lost so there is no effect on the division standings. So the doubleheader split is no big deal
I'm fine with the split...  
Metnut : 6/12/2019 7:43 am : link
especially having Vargas go versus NYY's best pitcher. I was at work during the opener but seemed like Wheeler had good stuff and fell apart a bit later on and had some bad defense behind him.

Great opportunity at home to pounce on a STL team that's really struggling this weekend. Anything less than 3 out of 4 would be a bust IMO.
Brief Pete Alonso interview w Bleacher Report  
Ira : 6/12/2019 8:49 am : link
He's a cool guy.
Link - ( New Window )
its amazing to me that Yankee  
ryanmkeane : 6/12/2019 9:27 am : link
fans think that other team's players who arent popular or "no names" (like JD Davis) are much, much, much, much worse than the same type of players the Yankees have.
RE: its amazing to me that Yankee  
figgy2989 : 6/12/2019 9:32 am : link
In comment 14470200 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
fans think that other team's players who arent popular or "no names" (like JD Davis) are much, much, much, much worse than the same type of players the Yankees have.


Funny you mentioned JD Davis. He was referred to as a bum, yet Gio Urshela, who had a similar career path to Davis is a rising star. Both are similar age and progression through the minors/majors.
Wait, who called Urshela a rising star???  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 9:33 am : link
.
also, gotta love Baghdad Z getting butthurt about the "inferior team"  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 9:35 am : link
jibe.....the Yankees are 41-25 (despite missing their two best hitters and staff ace for almost the entire season) and the Mets are 33-34. News flash: the Mets are an objectively inferior team.
Maybe rising star was a bit strong  
figgy2989 : 6/12/2019 9:36 am : link
But there was definitely some gushing when he first came up.

Just curious how Yanks fans would react if we called Urshela some random hump? I am sure that comment would have gone over well.
wouldn't bother me any  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 9:40 am : link
Because he did jack shit before this year. I've enjoyed the hell out of the ride, but if he went into a tailspin I wouldn't be shocked. It's going to take more than a couple of months for me to believe he's for real.
gushing?  
bigbluehoya : 6/12/2019 9:59 am : link
he was hitting about .370 and producing in huge spots. Of course everyone was ecstatic. Pretty sure not a single person thought that was reflective of his long term outlook.

There were specific conversations where NYY posters were wondering if, given the seeming skills improvement, a long-term run-rate of like .270 / .340 / .440 might be realistic. and the vast majority of posters seemed to think it was probably too aggressive.

so much gushing.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 10:07 am : link
if you watch baseball, how the fuck can a line like this ever get typed??

Quote:
I calls em like I sees em. Mets aren't as good as the Yankees and it follows the Yankees should be the crap out of them every time they play them.


Based on this rationale, the worst teams would NEVER win.

It is like game threads are just a cesspool of complete idiocy.
bigbluehoya  
figgy2989 : 6/12/2019 10:09 am : link
Point still remains, if a Mets called Urshela a random hump, do you think that comment would go over well with Yanks fans?

RE: bigbluehoya  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14470244 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Point still remains, if a Mets called Urshela a random hump, do you think that comment would go over well with Yanks fans?


I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't care at all because that's pretty much what he is - a guy who couldn't hit his weight in his time with Cleveland who is hitting way over his head right now.
By the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 10:11 am : link
in the College Super Regionals, Duke beat Vandy 18-3 in Game 1.

Vandy won the next two games. How does that happen??? How does a team lose 18-3 and win the next two games? Inconceivable!!
RE: also, gotta love Baghdad Z getting butthurt about the  
pjcas18 : 6/12/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14470208 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
jibe.....the Yankees are 41-25 (despite missing their two best hitters and staff ace for almost the entire season) and the Mets are 33-34. News flash: the Mets are an objectively inferior team.


Of course they are an inferior team. It's not even really debatable, But that doesn't mean fans have an inferiority complex.

Not much worse than a fan who takes on the persona of their team and thinks because their team wins, they're a winner.

Living in Boston-metro I see this on a daily basis.

Patriots fans of all genders, races, ages, etc. try and lecture me on football because you know, they're the greatest dynasty in sports modern history, so their fans are the best and football experts (and not just from 2001 on - ever).

Or Red Sox fans telling me how a team should be rebuilt because they got the Dodgers to bail them out of an extensive period in "hell"

anyway, no one could possibly argue the Mets have been more successful than the Yankees, historically or even lately - even with the Mets the last of the two to make it to the WS, but what does that have to do with the fans?

and I have trouble contributing negatively to a thread like this, I grew up a Mets fan from my early childhood in a Yankees fan family (for a variety of reasons). My father and brother are about as die hard a Yankees fan as there could possibly be.

I never even once when they weren't playing each other considered the Yankees a rival, and don't have a shred of Yankees hate. I'm indifferent to them. When Cone, Straw, Gooden, etc. became Yankees I even liked seeing their success.

and my hatred of Boston sports is so strong, when the Yankees and Red Sox play I even root for the Yankees.

but I never grew up in NY, so maybe getting second billing since the late 80's Mets heyday ended, some fans do feel that way, but I definitely wouldn't paint with a broad brush.

And history is fleeting. My kids don't think of the Yankees as winners. My youngest has never seen a Yankees world series. My older kids have seen 4 Red Sox World Series and 1 Yankees championship. They view the Yankees how they view the Canadiens - once upon a time they dominated, but not now. And with more time and no titles that sentiment will grow IMO.
RE: RE: bigbluehoya  
bigbluehoya : 6/12/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14470249 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14470244 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


Point still remains, if a Mets called Urshela a random hump, do you think that comment would go over well with Yanks fans?




I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't care at all because that's pretty much what he is - a guy who couldn't hit his weight in his time with Cleveland who is hitting way over his head right now.


I'm with Greg. Wouldn't bother me in the least. 2 months ago, 'random hump' would have been a compliment on Urshela. And there's a good chance he'll be random hump again before too long.

I can see why it could get under people's skin. I don't know why people let it, though.
There's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 10:17 am : link
quite a bit of a time gap here:

Quote:
My older kids have seen 4 Red Sox World Series and 1 Yankees championship. They view the Yankees how they view the Canadiens - once upon a time they dominated, but not now. And with more time and no titles that sentiment will grow IMO.


The mid to late 70's was when Montreal was dominant (as were the Yankees), but fast-forward 20 years and that was also when the Yankees were dominant.

It isn't like we are looking at the hey day of the Chicago Bears under Halas here.
RE: RE: also, gotta love Baghdad Z getting butthurt about the  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14470252 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14470208 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


jibe.....the Yankees are 41-25 (despite missing their two best hitters and staff ace for almost the entire season) and the Mets are 33-34. News flash: the Mets are an objectively inferior team.



Of course they are an inferior team. It's not even really debatable, But that doesn't mean fans have an inferiority complex.

Not much worse than a fan who takes on the persona of their team and thinks because their team wins, they're a winner.

Living in Boston-metro I see this on a daily basis.

Patriots fans of all genders, races, ages, etc. try and lecture me on football because you know, they're the greatest dynasty in sports modern history, so their fans are the best and football experts (and not just from 2001 on - ever).

Or Red Sox fans telling me how a team should be rebuilt because they got the Dodgers to bail them out of an extensive period in "hell"

anyway, no one could possibly argue the Mets have been more successful than the Yankees, historically or even lately - even with the Mets the last of the two to make it to the WS, but what does that have to do with the fans?

and I have trouble contributing negatively to a thread like this, I grew up a Mets fan from my early childhood in a Yankees fan family (for a variety of reasons). My father and brother are about as die hard a Yankees fan as there could possibly be.

I never even once when they weren't playing each other considered the Yankees a rival, and don't have a shred of Yankees hate. I'm indifferent to them. When Cone, Straw, Gooden, etc. became Yankees I even liked seeing their success.

and my hatred of Boston sports is so strong, when the Yankees and Red Sox play I even root for the Yankees.

but I never grew up in NY, so maybe getting second billing since the late 80's Mets heyday ended, some fans do feel that way, but I definitely wouldn't paint with a broad brush.

And history is fleeting. My kids don't think of the Yankees as winners. My youngest has never seen a Yankees world series. My older kids have seen 4 Red Sox World Series and 1 Yankees championship. They view the Yankees how they view the Canadiens - once upon a time they dominated, but not now. And with more time and no titles that sentiment will grow IMO.

Great post Pj.
RE: By the way..  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14470250 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
in the College Super Regionals, Duke beat Vandy 18-3 in Game 1.

Vandy won the next two games. How does that happen??? How does a team lose 18-3 and win the next two games? Inconceivable!!


The 2014 and 2015 CWS finals were crazy mirror images of each other. In 2014, UVA was the dominant team. That was the best team Brian O'Connor ever had, and it's really not even close. We were huge favorites over Vanderbilt but then Nathan Kirby forgot how to throw a strike in game 1 and our ace closer, Nick Howard, blew a lead in game 3 so we lost. The next year, Vandy was the dominant team and the huge favorite while UVA lost a bunch of guys and barely even snuck into the postseason, but that series we won.
Greg..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 10:25 am : link
that shouldn't be possible!!!

Quote:
I calls em like I sees em. Mets aren't as good as the Yankees and it follows the Yankees should be the crap out of them every time they play them.
RE: Greg..  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14470272 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that shouldn't be possible!!!



Quote:


I calls em like I sees em. Mets aren't as good as the Yankees and it follows the Yankees should be the crap out of them every time they play them.


What's wrong with this comment FMIC? It's a fact which is proven by the fact that the Marlins and Orioles are winless this season.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/12/2019 10:33 am : link
I chuckled.
RE: RE: also, gotta love Baghdad Z getting butthurt about the  
rich in DC : 6/12/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14470252 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14470208 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


jibe.....the Yankees are 41-25 (despite missing their two best hitters and staff ace for almost the entire season) and the Mets are 33-34. News flash: the Mets are an objectively inferior team.



Of course they are an inferior team. It's not even really debatable, But that doesn't mean fans have an inferiority complex.

Not much worse than a fan who takes on the persona of their team and thinks because their team wins, they're a winner.

Living in Boston-metro I see this on a daily basis.

Patriots fans of all genders, races, ages, etc. try and lecture me on football because you know, they're the greatest dynasty in sports modern history, so their fans are the best and football experts (and not just from 2001 on - ever).

Or Red Sox fans telling me how a team should be rebuilt because they got the Dodgers to bail them out of an extensive period in "hell"

anyway, no one could possibly argue the Mets have been more successful than the Yankees, historically or even lately - even with the Mets the last of the two to make it to the WS, but what does that have to do with the fans?

and I have trouble contributing negatively to a thread like this, I grew up a Mets fan from my early childhood in a Yankees fan family (for a variety of reasons). My father and brother are about as die hard a Yankees fan as there could possibly be.

I never even once when they weren't playing each other considered the Yankees a rival, and don't have a shred of Yankees hate. I'm indifferent to them. When Cone, Straw, Gooden, etc. became Yankees I even liked seeing their success.

and my hatred of Boston sports is so strong, when the Yankees and Red Sox play I even root for the Yankees.

but I never grew up in NY, so maybe getting second billing since the late 80's Mets heyday ended, some fans do feel that way, but I definitely wouldn't paint with a broad brush.

And history is fleeting. My kids don't think of the Yankees as winners. My youngest has never seen a Yankees world series. My older kids have seen 4 Red Sox World Series and 1 Yankees championship. They view the Yankees how they view the Canadiens - once upon a time they dominated, but not now. And with more time and no titles that sentiment will grow IMO.


This might be the most ironic post I have seen in a while. The writer starts by trying to dismiss the inferiority complex idea- and then proceeds to demonstrate an inferiority complex.

Here's a hint- most fans don't care about whether you have an inferiority complex or not- just don't go there. Follow your team objectively and don't get caught up in the chest-beating or tearing down other teams to try and justify your fandom. Going on and on about one side or the other is tiresome and boring to read.
LOL  
pjcas18 : 6/12/2019 10:41 am : link
my post demonstrated an inferiority complex.

If anything your reaction to it demonstrates an inferiority complex.

Or at least insecurity.
well, Susan, it's like I always say  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 10:44 am : link
you just can't predict baseball


My observations about the Yankees  
Vanzetti : 6/12/2019 12:56 pm : link
I'm a Mets fan but I do not dislike the Yanks. I always root for them to beat Boston, Dodgers, Braves and other teams dislike. So what follows is as objective as I can be:

1. Cashman did an amazing job having guys read to fill in for injured players.He knows how o find guys who thrive in Yankee Stadium and in that lineup. I know this is obvious but it might still be underappreciated.

2. I know Yankee fans might not want to hear this but the team needs an ace. You acquired two middle of the rotation starters in Happ and Paxson. Those prospects and cap space would have bee better spent imo on a single dominant pitcher.

Think about going into playoffs with Degrom or Sherzer pitching first, followed by Severino. Now Severino is forced to be the ace, a role he might not yet be ready to assume.

If I'm the Yanks, I take a chance on Bumgarner. You just have to do load management because his shoulder can't take 200 innings
I grew up hating the yanks but the animosity ended post-Madoff  
Eric on Li : 6/12/2019 1:16 pm : link
it's just not even a competition anymore, not that it ever really was. Obviously the rivalry peaked in 2000, but then the Mets dropped the ball on A-Rod + Hampton and that WS team fell apart.

In 04, 05, 06 it looked like there might be a renewal with Reyes + Wright + Beltran but obviously that argument turned farcical really quickly.

The Madoff mess IMO was the death blow. The Mets barely operate as a mid-market team now, let alone a competitor of the Yankees (or Dodgers, or Red Sox, or Cubs). They haven't competed for the same players in a decade, they don't trade with each other, they enter the season with totally different expectations.

Even in 2015 when the Mets almost won the WS and Thor made the comments about NY being a "mets town" it didn't matter. Sure there was more optimism among Met fans about our own team + situation, but IMO any elements of a rivalry were so far beneath what they were in the early 2000's when there was a semi-honest competitiveness in terms of resources or effort level to win (or maybe there wasn't but met fans hadn't full caught on to the Wilpons games yet). Perhaps this is a misread, but I think by and large most Met fans are far more emotionally "triggered" by the mess of our own org vs. comparing to any other and now it's just a fringe that get worked about about the Yankees (vs. the inverse previously). the 2 franchises are just operating in 2 completely different orbits that have little impact on one another. If the Mets start competing like a big market team again one day maybe it will come back but with the wilpons that's just never going to happen.
If I'm the Yankees...  
Metnut : 6/12/2019 1:37 pm : link
I'd give the Marlins a call about Caleb Smith. Give them 3 or 4 prospects. Kid has the upside to be a legit ace, breaking out this year and under team control forever. Yankees coaching staff could probably untap even more production out of him.

Renting a declining past-prime Bumgarner because of old playoff performances when his arm wasn't shot or #3 starter like Stroman doesn't really seem worth it.

As currently constituted, Yankees would be a pretty significant underdog to HOU in a 7-game series IMO. They have so much position player depth that it makes sense to consolidate that into a front line starter.
I don't think Bumgarner makes sense for the Yankees  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 1:53 pm : link
If they wanted him it would have made more sense to just sign Keuchel.
Scherzer is the guy that makes sense for nyy  
Eric on Li : 6/12/2019 1:58 pm : link
what he costs is another question, but he's the guy that makes sense.
3 or 4 prospects for Caleb Smith??  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 2:28 pm : link
A soon to be 28 year old whose track record as a plus pitcher is limited to this partial season? And who the Yankees traded to the Marlins for next to nothing not even two years ago?

Stroman has better numbers than Smith despite pitching in the AL and has a helluva lot more of a track record, plus they're almost the same age.
RE: 3 or 4 prospects for Caleb Smith??  
Metnut : 6/12/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14470553 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
A soon to be 28 year old whose track record as a plus pitcher is limited to this partial season? And who the Yankees traded to the Marlins for next to nothing not even two years ago?

Stroman has better numbers than Smith despite pitching in the AL and has a helluva lot more of a track record, plus they're almost the same age.


Smith is striking out over 11 per 9 (pretty insane for a starter) compared to Stroman's less than 7 per 9. Smith is walking 2.73 per 9 compared to 3.09 for Stroman. XFIP half a run better for Smith too.

Longer team control and substantially higher upside for Smith IMO.

Is this obsession with K rates and xFIP a Mets fan thing or something?  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 2:48 pm : link
.
RE: Is this obsession with K rates and xFIP a Mets fan thing or something?  
Metnut : 6/12/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14470564 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


The Rays, Dodgers and Astros are three of the top 4 in XFIP in 2019. In 2018 the top 4 were Astros, Dodgers, Yankees and Indians.

It's a metric that we've seen members of smart front offices constantly mention as a key indicator to roughly evaluate pitchers to take out park factors and defense.

Not sure what point you're trying to make about the Mets? Can you clarify please? I was talking about a potential Marlins/Yankees trade. Fine if you don't like it, but what do the Mets have to do with it?
allstarjim kept going on and on about K rates and xFIP when arguing  
Greg from LI : 6/12/2019 3:07 pm : link
that Zack Wheeler has been fantastic this year. That's what I was talking about.
RE: allstarjim kept going on and on about K rates and xFIP when arguing  
pjcas18 : 6/12/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14470576 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
that Zack Wheeler has been fantastic this year. That's what I was talking about.


stop feeling inferior because you don't love xFIP
Greg  
Jay on the Island : 6/12/2019 3:50 pm : link
which metrics do you prefer to evaluate hitters and pitchers? OPS, wRC+, ERA, FIP?
Imagine thinking it's only Yankees fans  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/12/2019 4:12 pm : link
who laugh at the idea of being a Mets fan in 2019. I'm really not trying to be mean here. But practically every fanbase in MLB laughs at their franchise. It's far from just Yankees fans. That's the truth.
RE: Imagine thinking it's only Yankees fans  
pjcas18 : 6/12/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14470613 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
who laugh at the idea of being a Mets fan in 2019. I'm really not trying to be mean here. But practically every fanbase in MLB laughs at their franchise. It's far from just Yankees fans. That's the truth.


this is gold right here.
RE: RE: Imagine thinking it's only Yankees fans  
schabadoo : 6/12/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14470616 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14470613 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


who laugh at the idea of being a Mets fan in 2019. I'm really not trying to be mean here. But practically every fanbase in MLB laughs at their franchise. It's far from just Yankees fans. That's the truth.



this is gold right here.


There is a consistency to their postings that you have to admire.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/12/2019 4:42 pm : link
Every fan base has its dolts.

It's really that simple.

I know, because both sides of this argument had me. :)
Geez - still at it?  
section125 : 6/12/2019 4:49 pm : link
The Yanks kicked the Mets asses in the 1st game.

The Mets kicked the Yankees asses in the 2nd game.

Isn't that hard. It's baseball. One team wins and one team loses.
Stanton with some more  
xman : 6/12/2019 9:33 pm : link
homers in Tampa
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